OWNER Surf Blau (Norsker)

[Surf Blau]

So I ended up buying the first 500E I looked at - partly because I got bored searching, but also because the package (price+condition) seemed fair considering what the market looks like nowadays.

Mine is a 1993 with the secretive 855-code ("Newtech, old looks"), sold new in Switzerland. At some point in its life it was exported to the UK, where it spent some time before a fellow Norwegian currently living there bought it. He brought it back home to Norway with him after a couple of years, where he sold it before he got a chance to use it himself (import taxes were quite high back then). The guy he sold it to kept it from 2017 up until I acquired it a few days ago. Its not a perfect car, but seems to have the basis for a good, usable classic - someone clearly loved this car (a lot) so far in its life, and I intend to keep it up. I've only driven it a few hundred kilometers so far, and I must say that although it clearly feels like an old car when driving it, it's a mighty impressive old car - pretty sure I have managed to surprise more than the fellow enthusiasts overtaking them in such a grandpa car..

I bought it at approximately 215.000km, and it came with a service book that for the most part shows how and where it was treated when it comes to regular upkeep. It had its (upper at least) enging wiring loom replaced in 2012, and starts and runs great - it's amazing how much heat it produces though, a proper leg warmer when you step out of the car. There are a couple of issues I need to get sorted, some more urgent than others;

• ASR-light comes on after a couple of minutes, which as far as I can gather is the same fault as many here on the forum has also had - I suspect it comes from too little or too gentle use (I bought it straight out of winter storage, for instance), and I have done my best to force-activate ASR in the time-span before the light comes on - so far the only thing I've noticed is that the ASR-pump makes a lot more noise than I can remember it doing when I got it. Next step is to bleed the valve on the pump itself, as I suspect it hasn't been done properly (anyone got the procedure for brake fluid renewal on these cars?). Regardless of ASR being out of commission, ABS and everything else works as normal.
• The backrest on the driver side seat has a poor connection in the wiring on the rear of the memory module under the seat, rendering the seat switch useless unless I fiddle with the wires there. The relay in the memory module clicks when the switch is pushed, which makes me suspect a wire has broken or might be shorted (are these wires also "biodegradeable"?).
• The Auxiliary heater turns on by itself after a couple of minutes, and does not switch off using the switch panel. If I press the "fire-button" on the switch panel before it turns on by itself, it makes the same racket and does not turn back off again (the light goes out though). Any ideas where to start searching? I removed the fuse to avoid getting tinnitus so far.
• Unless cars sold new in Switzerland came debadged from factory, it is supposed to have a badge on the rear though - but these seem hopeless to find at a fair price nowadays. Any idea on where to find one? It should look like a badge from 1993, so it doesn't have to be brand new.

Besides that there are the normal major/minor details any used car buy triggers the need to sort out, but I haven't found much more that doesn't work so far.

VIN-decoding from LastVIN.com

 

[Eno]

Congratulations.

 

[gsxr]

• ASR-light comes on after a couple of minutes, which as far as I can gather is the same fault as many here on the forum has also had - I suspect it comes from too little or too gentle use (I bought it straight out of winter storage, for instance), and I have done my best to force-activate ASR in the time-span before the light comes on - so far the only thing I've noticed is that the ASR-pump makes a lot more noise than I can remember it doing when I got it.

Start by clearing all fault codes and seeing which codes are stored the next time the ASR light illuminates. This will help determine the root cause. Details here.

• Next step is to bleed the valve on the pump itself, as I suspect it hasn't been done properly (anyone got the procedure for brake fluid renewal on these cars?). Regardless of ASR being out of commission, ABS and everything else works as normal.

Pressure bleed the entire system as shown in this HOW-TO thread. Don't expect any change in ASR function though.

• The backrest on the driver side seat has a poor connection in the wiring on the rear of the memory module under the seat, rendering the seat switch useless unless I fiddle with the wires there. The relay in the memory module clicks when the switch is pushed, which makes me suspect a wire has broken or might be shorted (are these wires also "biodegradeable"?).

AFAIK the passenger compartment doesn't suffer wire insulation failure like the engine wiring. Since the switch is triggering a relay in the control module under the seat, it sounds like you may need to pull the seat for further investigation / repair?

• The Auxiliary heater turns on by itself after a couple of minutes, and does not switch off using the switch panel. If I press the "fire-button" on the switch panel before it turns on by itself, it makes the same racket and does not turn back off again (the light goes out though). Any ideas where to start searching? I removed the fuse to avoid getting tinnitus so far.

The auxiliary heater was not offered in USA. Perhaps some forum members in Europe might be able to assist with troubleshooting...

• Unless cars sold new in Switzerland came debadged from factory, it is supposed to have a badge on the rear though - but these seem hopeless to find at a fair price nowadays. Any idea on where to find one? It should look like a badge from 1993, so it doesn't have to be brand new.

I haven't seen any used badges for sale in a long time. NOS badges pop up periodically for ±$500€ or so.


Congrats on your new ride!

 

[doolar]

So I ended up buying the first 500E I looked at - partly because I got bored searching, but also because the package (price+condition) seemed fair considering what the market looks like nowadays.

Mine is a 1993 with the secretive 855-code ("Newtech, old looks"), sold new in Switzerland. At some point in its life it was exported to the UK, where it spent some time before a fellow Norwegian currently living there bought it. He brought it back home to Norway with him after a couple of years, where he sold it before he got a chance to use it himself (import taxes were quite high back then). The guy he sold it to kept it from 2017 up until I acquired it a few days ago. Its not a perfect car, but seems to have the basis for a good, usable classic - someone clearly loved this car (a lot) so far in its life, and I intend to keep it up. I've only driven it a few hundred kilometers so far, and I must say that although it clearly feels like an old car when driving it, it's a mighty impressive old car - pretty sure I have managed to surprise more than the fellow enthusiasts overtaking them in such a grandpa car..

I bought it at approximately 215.000km, and it came with a service book that for the most part shows how and where it was treated when it comes to regular upkeep. It had its (upper at least) enging wiring loom replaced in 2012, and starts and runs great - it's amazing how much heat it produces though, a proper leg warmer when you step out of the car. There are a couple of issues I need to get sorted, some more urgent than others;

• ASR-light comes on after a couple of minutes, which as far as I can gather is the same fault as many here on the forum has also had - I suspect it comes from too little or too gentle use (I bought it straight out of winter storage, for instance), and I have done my best to force-activate ASR in the time-span before the light comes on - so far the only thing I've noticed is that the ASR-pump makes a lot more noise than I can remember it doing when I got it. Next step is to bleed the valve on the pump itself, as I suspect it hasn't been done properly (anyone got the procedure for brake fluid renewal on these cars?). Regardless of ASR being out of commission, ABS and everything else works as normal.
• The backrest on the driver side seat has a poor connection in the wiring on the rear of the memory module under the seat, rendering the seat switch useless unless I fiddle with the wires there. The relay in the memory module clicks when the switch is pushed, which makes me suspect a wire has broken or might be shorted (are these wires also "biodegradeable"?).
• The Auxiliary heater turns on by itself after a couple of minutes, and does not switch off using the switch panel. If I press the "fire-button" on the switch panel before it turns on by itself, it makes the same racket and does not turn back off again (the light goes out though). Any ideas where to start searching? I removed the fuse to avoid getting tinnitus so far.
• Unless cars sold new in Switzerland came debadged from factory, it is supposed to have a badge on the rear though - but these seem hopeless to find at a fair price nowadays. Any idea on where to find one? It should look like a badge from 1993, so it doesn't have to be brand new.

Besides that there are the normal major/minor details any used car buy triggers the need to sort out, but I haven't found much more that doesn't work so far.

VIN-decoding from LastVIN.com

Nice car!

I have a nearly complete auxiliary heater system for your car if you need any spares I’d be happy to sell it.

 

[Surf Blau]

Start by clearing all fault codes and seeing which codes are stored the next time the ASR light illuminates. This will help determine the root cause. Details here.

Pressure bleed the entire system as shown in this HOW-TO thread. Don't expect any change in ASR function though.

AFAIK the passenger compartment doesn't suffer wire insulation failure like the engine wiring. Since the switch is triggering a relay in the control module under the seat, it sounds like you may need to pull the seat for further investigation / repair?

The auxiliary heater was not offered in USA. Perhaps some forum members in Europe might be able to assist with troubleshooting...

I haven't seen any used badges for sale in a long time. NOS badges pop up periodically for ±$500€ or so.
Congrats on your new ride!

Thanks for your advise on the faults mentioned! I will keep you posted on how things go with the ASR, which is the first issue I plan to resolve. I found receipts from the previous owner where he instructed his garage to look into ASR-light after previous winter storage periods as well, so this has been a recurring issue it seems.

I will remove the driver side seat in the near future and make sure all wiring is intact; If the wiring inside this isn't the bio-degradable kind, I'm pretty sure its "just" a wire that has broken due to many years of the same movement/wear. Everything else works as it should, including both memory positions, storing, etc.

When it comes to the auxiliary heater I have a new theory that I need to look into, and will keep the forum updated on that as well. Not sure how many 500s were delivered with this option in the first place, so hopefully spare parts (if needed) are generic for all models.

I wonder if Octoclassic.com could be persuaded to make badges for these cars - they specialize on low-volume parts which are no longer available, like small plastic pieces for the interior and such. The only challenge is that they need an original part to make their models from..

 

[Surf Blau]

Nice car!

I have a nearly complete auxiliary heater system for your car if you need any spares I’d be happy to sell it.

Thanks, that's good to know - I will let you know once I have looked into it more closely

 

[dreaming.haze]

Thanks for your advise on the faults mentioned! I will keep you posted on how things go with the ASR, which is the first issue I plan to resolve. I found receipts from the previous owner where he instructed his garage to look into ASR-light after previous winter storage periods as well, so this has been a recurring issue it seems.

I will remove the driver side seat in the near future and make sure all wiring is intact; If the wiring inside this isn't the bio-degradable kind, I'm pretty sure its "just" a wire that has broken due to many years of the same movement/wear. Everything else works as it should, including both memory positions, storing, etc.

When it comes to the auxiliary heater I have a new theory that I need to look into, and will keep the forum updated on that as well. Not sure how many 500s were delivered with this option in the first place, so hopefully spare parts (if needed) are generic for all models.

I wonder if Octoclassic.com could be persuaded to make badges for these cars - they specialize on low-volume parts which are no longer available, like small plastic pieces for the interior and such. The only challenge is that they need an original part to make their models from..

Welcome to the forum! Your car looks lovely and I'm sure you'll get all these systems back to a new point. The NLA and parts availability is a bit fun with these.

To your note on 500e badges, we did a group buy a few years back were one of our members reproduced badges in factory specific look. I've got a couple floating around here somewhere if you'd be interested in it.

 

[500AMM]

Surf Blau - wow, what a surprise!!
Nice to see you here and finally you got into a 500E, congratulations and welcome to the forum!


Just for info guys; Surf Blau definitely becomes one of our celebs within the MB community here in Norway. IIRC you were part of the group of friends establishing Mercedes-Benz Entusiastklubb here in Norway; Forside - Mercedes-Benz Entusiastklubb in around 2000?? I was a member of that club for many years, and we have in fact met once on the annual gathering at GOL back in 2007.

Due to your story on the car, the diamond cut stock wheels and the spec on it, I think I know which car you now have. I had some contact with a Norwegian back in 2012 living in UK, who imported his 500E to Norway some years later. I have two sales ads from FINN back from 2011 and 2013 when he tried to sell the car. We emailed a bit but I lost contact with him and I didn't have the VIN so I couldn't track down the car either. When he had the car in UK it carried 200D on the rear lid. Here is an image I put together.



This image is from the second ad on FINN.


It's nice to finally see this car popping up from nowhere, at least to me. And in my archives is this car No.48 of original 500E/E500s on Norwegian plates (registered). Funny enough we have another 500E here in Norway just three numbers ahead of your VIN, running is Oslo as well.

 

[Surf Blau]

Surf Blau - wow, what a surprise!!
Nice to see you here and finally you got into a 500E, congratulations and welcome to the forum!


Just for info guys; Surf Blau definitely becomes one of our celebs within the MB community here in Norway. IIRC you were part of the group of friends establishing Mercedes-Benz Entusiastklubb here in Norway; Forside - Mercedes-Benz Entusiastklubb in around 2000?? I was a member of that club for many years, and we have in fact met once on the annual gathering at GOL back in 2007.

Due to your story on the car, the diamond cut stock wheels and the spec on it, I think I know which car you now have. I had some contact with a Norwegian back in 2012 living in UK, who imported his 500E to Norway some years later. I have two sales ads from FINN back from 2011 and 2013 when he tried to sell the car. We emailed a bit but I lost contact with him and I didn't have the VIN so I couldn't track down the car either. When he had the car in UK it carried 200D on the rear lid. Here is an image I put together.

View attachment 213157

This image is from the second ad on FINN.
View attachment 213159

It's nice to finally see this car popping up from nowhere, at least to me. And in my archives is this car No.48 of original 500E/E500s on Norwegian plates (registered). Funny enough we have another 500E here in Norway just three numbers ahead of your VIN, running is Oslo as well.

Haha, I love the 200D-badge - for those unfamiliar with this designation, it belongs to a W124 with 75hp, I’m sure it must’ve surprised a few people back then

And thanks for the welcome - you remember correctly, I was one of the founders of that club, and still a member. I’m actually going to the annual GTG in less than a month, now pondering whether I should bring the 500E or something else.

I do remember meeting you many years ago, and I remember us talking about the scarcity of parts like the emblem even back then! After seeing these pictures though, perhaps I should find another 200D-badge instead

I have been in contact with the guy who imported my car back in the day actually, as I got his name from the owner of another car I tried to buy. If he imported it as early as 2012, and the guy I bought it from registered it in 2017, this might explain why the history between 2010 and 2020 is a bit unclear and also why it doesn’t seem to have been driven much in this timeframe. I’d love to hear more about the registry you’ve created, and hear more if you have time.

 

[Surf Blau]

Welcome to the forum! Your car looks lovely and I'm sure you'll get all these systems back to a new point. The NLA and parts availability is a bit fun with these.

To your note on 500e badges, we did a group buy a few years back were one of our members reproduced badges in factory specific look. I've got a couple floating around here somewhere if you'd be interested in it.

Thanks! And yes, finally finding rare parts or figuring out a puzzling issue is very rewarding with cars like these! Like the emblem for instance - I am indeed interested, please let me know if you find one, perhaps in a PM

 

[Surf Blau]

Start by clearing all fault codes and seeing which codes are stored the next time the ASR light illuminates. This will help determine the root cause. Details here.

Finally got around to building a code reader, and found only one fault on the ABS/ASR-port: code 21. Erasing it changed nothing, as the light came back on after the usual 2:59 minutes. I also tried bleeding the pump itself, but was quite surprised how little fluid came out. The reservoir is almost at max, and the pump vibrates and sounds like it’s running properly - albeit perhaps a bit rough.

 

[gerryvz]

Try activating the ASR within the first 2-3 minute period before the light comes on. Meaning, do a burn-out or other sharp acceleration to move the fluid around the system. Do this a few times -- shut down the car, and do it again. Repeat a few times. Do it the next time the car is cold and you drive the car.

The problem will work itself out eventually.

You should also immediately change the brake fluid, that will also help.

I haven't had the problem for a couple of years now, but I try to drive the car at least once a month.

 

[gsxr]

Finally got around to building a code reader, and found only one fault on the ABS/ASR-port: code 21. Erasing it changed nothing, as the light came back on after the usual 2:59 minutes. I also tried bleeding the pump itself, but was quite surprised how little fluid came out. The reservoir is almost at max, and the pump vibrates and sounds like it’s running properly - albeit perhaps a bit rough.

Hmmm. First try "excercising" the ASR system as Gerry described above. And, pressure-bleed the brakes & ASR unit as well.

If after all that the problem remains, it could be a faulty ASR pump. On the bright side, these are shared with many other models, and are quite cheap to buy used (because the failure rate is extremely low).

 

[Surf Blau]

Try activating the ASR within the first 2-3 minute period before the light comes on. Meaning, do a burn-out or other sharp acceleration to move the fluid around the system. Do this a few times -- shut down the car, and do it again. Repeat a few times. Do it the next time the car is cold and you drive the car.

The problem will work itself out eventually.

You should also immediately change the brake fluid, that will also help.

I haven't had the problem for a couple of years now, but I try to drive the car at least once a month.

Thanks for the tip! I read about your experience on this earlier and actually tried to do the same a few times, but probably haven’t been aggressive enough. It feels criminal to do such a thing to a cold car though Did you clear codes before doing so, or just go at it? I will definitely change the brake fluid soon though, as it looks pretty dark and I’ve found no records on it being done previously.

Hmmm. First try "excercising" the ASR system as Gerry described above. And, pressure-bleed the brakes & ASR unit as well.

If after all that the problem remains, it could be a faulty ASR pump. On the bright side, these are shared with many other models, and are quite cheap to buy used (because the failure rate is extremely low).

View attachment 213173

Will do!

Hopefully it won’t need any replacement parts - as mentioned this car hasn’t seen all that much use in the past x years, so I’m betting it’s a classic case of “standing-wear”.

Thanks for the screenshot as well, I was just about to post the same and ask what the references to the right actually mean - any idea?

 

[gsxr]

Thanks for the screenshot as well, I was just about to post the same and ask what the references to the right actually mean - any idea?

The references on the right side are for the Diagnostic Manuals. More info here:

https://www.500eboard.co/forums/threads/mercedes-diagnostic-manuals-online-at-startekinfo.12192/

 

[dreaming.haze]

Thanks! And yes, finally finding rare parts or figuring out a puzzling issue is very rewarding with cars like these! Like the emblem for instance - I am indeed interested, please let me know if you find one, perhaps in a PM

Looks like you are still a new member who cannot PM, send me an email at dreaming.haze@gmail.com and we can talk more through email. Found the box for them earlier today while out in the garage, still have the 3 I ordered.

 

[gerryvz]

You don’t have to do a big burn-out with a cold engine. Just do a brisk acceleration from a stop where it will activate the yellow light in the speedometer. You want to exercise/activate the system a few times before it shuts itself down. Don’t have to do anything radical with a cold engine — I agree that is not advisable.

 

[gsxr]

You don’t have to do a big burn-out with a cold engine. Just do a brisk acceleration from a stop where it will activate the yellow light in the speedometer. You want to exercise/activate the system a few times before it shuts itself down. Don’t have to do anything radical with a cold engine — I agree that is not advisable.

Should be able to get the engine up to operating temp first, then shut it off and re-start... system still works when the engine is warm, for 3 mins, right?

 

[e500.org]

For nostalgia, here is a post from 20 March 2012 by one of the previous owners of K500 EDM

 

[Efraim]

Hi Surf Bleu, here are couple threads/texts that might help you.
What does one make of these codes? | De-Coding
500E - ASR lights up | Electrical, CAN and Wiring

 

[gerryvz]

Should be able to get the engine up to operating temp first, then shut it off and re-start... system still works when the engine is warm, for 3 mins, right?

Yep, it should reset itself even after engine warmup, and then it can be tried over and over.

As I said though, even with the engine not fully warmed up, just a brisk takeoff from a stop sign is enough to activate the ASR for a few seconds, to get that fluid circulating and that pump un-stuck.

New fluid will be a huge benefit, as it will have some additional lubrication properties.

Which reminds me, I need to change the brake fluid on my own E500. I have the day off tomorrow....and nearly a full case of @captruff -supplied MB brake fluid ....... hmmm......

 

[Surf Blau]

Ok, so yesterday I did a three step simplified process in order to get rid of the ASR-fault;

1. Activate ASR during the first minutes after startup, ie flooring it, both while cornering and straight ahead; both on gravel while cold (low RPM) and on dry surfaces (just going for it). No change; ASR-light comes on ~3min after starting the engine reliably.
2. Bleeding the SP-valve several times while adding new brake fluid; the colour of the fluid coming out changed considerably; from dark and cloudy to light and clear. I will do a full fluid change as per the specific procedure, this was more a test procedure to see what happened.
3. Basically step 1 repeated, to see if the new fluid made a difference. No change though.

Judging from the colour of the original fluid, I’m guessing it’s been years since it was replaced; which is unfortunately quite common, at least here in Norway. Again; I’ll do a full fluid change soon, as I want my brakes to function as good as they can! See attached photos for reference.

Before:


After:



I also made a short video of the pump as it shuts down, to show you guys the noise it makes. See attached video.

Edit: the 9sec video from my phone was too large for the forum, I’ll try shortening and adding again.

 

[Surf Blau]

Edit: …nor are .mov-movies allowed - I’ll try saving the clip as an .mpg-movie on my laptop later

 

[Surf Blau]

Trying once more; here’s a short clip with the sound of the pump as it stops ~3 minutes after startup.

 

[lowman]

Trying once more; here’s a short clip with the sound of the pump as it stops ~3 minutes after startup.

Er du SvenHåkon? Stefan,som du da evnt snakka med på facebook her

 

[Surf Blau]

Er du SvenHåkon? Stefan,som du da evnt snakka med på facebook her

Jepp! Jeg endte med den bilen jeg diskuterte med deg

English version: I discussed the car I ended up buying with Stefan aka “Lowman” before going for it.

 

[gsxr]

Trying once more; here’s a short clip with the sound of the pump as it stops ~3 minutes after startup.

Sounds like the usual ASR charging pump stopping.

 

[gerryvz]

You don’t have to do a big burn-out with a cold engine. Just do a brisk acceleration from a stop where it will activate the yellow light in the speedometer. You want to exercise/activate the system a few times before it shuts itself down. Don’t have to do anything radical with a cold engine — I agree that is not advisable.

Also notice this post that I made several years ago:

ASR light | Electrical, CAN and Wiring

Interesting, haven't heard of that one before but makes sense.

www.500eboard.co

 

[Surf Blau]

Thanks again for your input - I'm glad to hear that it sounds normal to you guys at least

Follow-up questions as the fault persists despite numerous activations shortly after startup;

1. Does the ASR-pump stop like it does here without fault 21? Ie; Does it stop at 3 minutes and then start again when needed, or does it run continuously if the pressure is correct?
2. I did a short bleed yesterday to see if the fluid was still "new" after several spirited drives since the fluid-changing-colour-bleed on Friday, which it was. Is this normal without bleeding again, or should the fluid have been "mixed" more and thus gotten darker again? (see attached picture for reference)
3. I cannot reeeeally grasp what I am supposed to do based on the procedures posted by @gsxr - what do these actually mean?

 

[Surf Blau]

Looks like you are still a new member who cannot PM, send me an email at dreaming.haze@gmail.com and we can talk more through email. Found the box for them earlier today while out in the garage, still have the 3 I ordered.

Thanks, there seems to be a lot I cannot access on here.. I emailed you just now

 

[Surf Blau]

For nostalgia, here is a post from 20 March 2012 by one of the previous owners of K500 EDM

View attachment 213184View attachment 213185

Thanks! Before buying the car I made contact with the original Norwegian owner in the UK, who shared a photo of the car while he had it with the K500EDM-registration, and I actually found these posts when googling that license plate :-D

 

[Surf Blau]

Hi Surf Bleu, here are couple threads/texts that might help you.
What does one make of these codes? | De-Coding
500E - ASR lights up | Electrical, CAN and Wiring

Thanks @Efraim!

 

[gsxr]

1. Does the ASR-pump stop like it does here without fault 21? Ie; Does it stop at 3 minutes and then start again when needed, or does it run continuously if the pressure is correct?

From memory... the ASR pump will typically only run for a long period, when the internal reservoir is empty (e.g., after releasing pressure from port SP when flushing / replacing brake fluid), or if the internal pressure is below spec. The ASR pump does not run frequently when functioning normally.

1. I did a short bleed yesterday to see if the fluid was still "new" after several spirited drives since the fluid-changing-colour-bleed on Friday, which it was. Is this normal without bleeding again, or should the fluid have been "mixed" more and thus gotten darker again? (see attached picture for reference)

With fresh brake fluid, I believe there should be very little old fluid in the system, so I wouldn't expect to see "mixed" fluid. I've never looked at the before though.

1. I cannot reeeeally grasp what I am supposed to do based on the procedures posted by @gsxr - what do these actually mean?

Those are the factory diagnostic procedures for each specific fault code. Some of those procedures require breakout boxes to allow connecting test equipment (volt meter, etc) with the engine running. Nobody has these breakout boxes because they are obscenely expensive (and probably NLA anyway). It's mostly showing how to check for expected voltages or resistance, and verifying the wiring is good.

AFAICT, fault 21 is related to an internal pressure switch that cannot be accessed nor replaced. If repeated attempts to cure this fail, the next step may be to replace the entire ASR pump assembly with a good used one.

 

[Surf Blau]

From memory... the ASR pump will typically only run for a long period, when the internal reservoir is empty (e.g., after releasing pressure from port SP when flushing / replacing brake fluid), or if the internal pressure is below spec. The ASR pump does not run frequently when functioning normally.



With fresh brake fluid, I believe there should be very little old fluid in the system, so I wouldn't expect to see "mixed" fluid. I've never looked at the before though.



Those are the factory diagnostic procedures for each specific fault code. Some of those procedures require breakout boxes to allow connecting test equipment (volt meter, etc) with the engine running. Nobody has these breakout boxes because they are obscenely expensive (and probably NLA anyway). It's mostly showing how to check for expected voltages or resistance, and verifying the wiring is good.

AFAICT, fault 21 is related to an internal pressure switch that cannot be accessed nor replaced. If repeated attempts to cure this fail, the next step may be to replace the entire ASR pump assembly with a good used one.

Thanks for your input once again! I haven't gotten around to replacing the fluids yet, but still have hopes that this might solve the problem when done properly! BTW; Should I go with the DOT4 the car was delivered with new, or just go for the DOT5.1? Are there any benefits besides a higher temperature resistance for the 5.1?

I did bring the car to a couple of GTGs and got loads of praise for its originality since my last post here, and besides the ASR-fault it still hasn't shown any other weaknesses besides a slightly leaking windscreen washer fluid tank/hoses. *knock on wood*



I've also made a few trips with my '66 250SE Coupé lately, which has also been a stellar driving companion (and no, that wet spot is not from the car ):

 

[Surf Blau]

Oh, and I also received the new badge from @dreaming.haze - I'm impressed with how good these replica badges (from the group buy you guys did a few years back) feel! Has anyone ever put it to the test, aka had it on their car since the group buy?

 

[gsxr]

BTW; Should I go with the DOT4 the car was delivered with new, or just go for the DOT5.1?

I use DOT4 / DOT4+ in my cars. Not all 5.1 fluids have higher boil points. Click here for my brake spreadsheet, look at page #9 with comparison of various high performance brake fluid boil points. The Ate Type 200 is usually the best bang for the buck if you want something rated beyond the Mercedes-branded brake fluid.

Are there any benefits besides a higher temperature resistance for the 5.1?

Nope!

 

[Surf Blau]

Thanks for the link, that was very interesting beyond information on brake fluids!

I don't plan to go track driving with this car, but as an enthusiastic driver from a country with plenty(!!) of winding roads with steep descents, I'll probably try to find the Type 200 you suggest

 

[TerryA]

Thanks for your input once again! I haven't gotten around to replacing the fluids yet, but still have hopes that this might solve the problem when done properly! BTW; Should I go with the DOT4 the car was delivered with new, or just go for the DOT5.1? Are there any benefits besides a higher temperature resistance for the 5.1?

I did bring the car to a couple of GTGs and got loads of praise for its originality since my last post here, and besides the ASR-fault it still hasn't shown any other weaknesses besides a slightly leaking windscreen washer fluid tank/hoses. *knock on wood*

View attachment 216067

I've also made a few trips with my '66 250SE Coupé lately, which has also been a stellar driving companion (and no, that wet spot is not from the car ):

View attachment 216065

View attachment 216064

@Surf Blau,
You have good taste in Mercedes cars w/ the 500E and that beautiful 250SE Coupe!

I once owned 64 220SEb Coupe that looked exactly like yours but was not in the best of condition at the time when I couldn’t afford to put the $$$$ into its restoration.

Still sorry I sold it. No pics to speak of since it was before the internet was available to me and the digital age.

BUT I do have a 500E for the last 21 years!

 

[Surf Blau]

@Surf Blau,
You have good taste in Mercedes cars w/ the 500E and that beautiful 250SE Coupe!

I once owned 64 220SEb Coupe that looked exactly like yours but was not in the best of condition at the time when I couldn’t afford to put the $$$$ into its restoration.

Still sorry I sold it. No pics to speak of since it was before the internet was available to me and the digital age.

BUT I do have a 500E for the last 21 years!

Thanks! And likewise!

The W111 Coupé can only be described as art on wheels, and it truly feels as though I am doing everyone else a favor driving it around, simply because they get to admire its looks. They are, however, not the easiest cars to run on a budget anymore though, as parts have gotten increasingly rare and expensive (sound familiar?). Mine has never been restored, and was in a good condition when I bought it - nevertheless it needed a lot of smaller things that really added up in the end. Hopefully I'll be able to keep it at a good, reliable state from here onwards, taking care of smaller things along the way instead of having to do major investments.

The 500E is not exactly unattractive either, but for me its the story behind these cars that truly make them interesting. And I do love the fact that those who are not in the know simply see it as a "nice, old Mercedes" whereas those who do know what it is approach with great awe and enthusiasm.

 

[Surf Blau]

A couple of days ago I got the first real fault (assuming the ASR-fault will be gone once I get around to replacing the brake fluid); Or rather, I would call it a symptom of a fault; Sometimes there is a slight "vibration" in the gas pedal, as if someone is tapping lightly under my foot a few times. It has only happened a few times, but only under (very) light acceleration at low speeds, i.e. NOT under load. Once the car is up to speed it pulls strongly and feels fine, and for the most part it also feels like it should under light load.

I realize of course that such an intermittent fault might be impossible to remotely diagnose, but I'm hoping (not really, of course) someone here has had similar experiences and could help me look in the right area. I tried searching, but it's not really severe or frequent enough for me to definitely know what to search for - from what I found though, I'd suspect moisture in the distributor caps or perhaps these insulators several has had problems with..

 

[gsxr]

Sometimes there is a slight "vibration" in the gas pedal, as if someone is tapping lightly under my foot a few times. It has only happened a few times, but only under (very) light acceleration at low speeds, i.e. NOT under load.

This sounds like the ETA actuator. What is the date code, and if old/original from the early/mid 1990's, has it ever been rebuilt (not just re-wired)?

Also - any fault codes on pin 7 (E-GAS)?

 

[Surf Blau]

You ask good questions my friend. I’m not sure where the ETA actuator is located, nor do i know whether it is the original or a rebuilt one.. Is it on the throttle body itself?

Thanks for the tip to check pin 7 though, i guess this is the first thing i should try. Any other pins i should check at the same time?

 

[gsxr]

You ask good questions my friend. I’m not sure where the ETA actuator is located, nor do i know whether it is the original or a rebuilt one.. Is it on the throttle body itself?

Oooops, I should have clarified. The throttle body is called the ETA (Electronic Throttle Actuator). There's a date code on the white label, also inked somewhere on the body in a triangle. See photos here.

Thanks for the tip to check pin 7 though, i guess this is the first thing i should try. Any other pins i should check at the same time?

Might as well check all of them, but pin 7 / E-GAS is the one which will affect throttle control, that could cause you to feel something odd at your right foot. I have a high mile E420 (250kmi / 400kkm) and the previously rebuilt ETA is getting tired, it occasionally has a fault that triggers limp mode (usually in freezing temps, prior to engine warmup). I've felt the weird "tapping at my foot" in this car, usually related to setting or adjusting the cruise control at freeway speeds. I'm waiting for it to get worse before I mess with replacement though.

 

[Surf Blau]

Thanks for clearing that up, I'll try to inspect the throttle body soon

Last night I had a chance to do a quick check on codes on pin 7 though; I got 6 and 14 pulses indicated. Cleared both codes, started the car and fiddled with the accelerator pedal for a bit, then did a re-test with no faults. Seems like a very intermittent fault then.

 

[gsxr]

Code 6 is for the NSS (S16/1). Check the adjustment, but if it's old/original, it might be on the way out. NLA, of course... but it may be possible to open it up and clean the contacts inside.

Code 14 is Closed throttle position switch (S29/3). If this keeps recurring, inspect / replace the switch and see if there's any improvement.

 

[Surf Blau]

Wow, thanks again!

 

[Surf Blau]

So, tonight the 500E left me stranded at the local grocery store. It hasn’t been used for a week or so, but still started up as if nothing had happened. I drove the 5kms/3mls to the store, did wonder why the steering wheel was vibrating slightly, but as I didn’t feel anything through the shifter I figured it was a bit of flatspotting on the front tires from parking the car with warm tires.

I did my shopping and started the car, again as it normally does, but after a few seconds it started sputtering and died suddenly. No amount of cranking would bring it back to life, the only sign of such were occasional loud bangs from the exhaust. I removed and inspected all plugs and connectors I could reach with no help, and messed around for a good hour before it finally «ran» again - although dying as soon as I shifted into D or touched the accelerator. Shortly after I was able to make it run well enough to shift into gear and limped home, while feeling the car becoming its own self again by the minute. When I was back home it idled as if nothing happened.

I removed the distributor cap on the right bank and found corrosion and moisture inside. Now, I’m sure the best advice would be to replace everything, but before doing so I wanted to hear if anyone has had good luck cleaning up these parts and using them for a while longer?

 

[gsxr]

You experienced a textbook case of moisture in the caps. Follow the instructions in this thread to cut additional venting slots. It's likely that will resolve the problem. Also make sure there is no oil leaking from the intake cam solenoid/magnet down to the lower edge of the cap, and that the exhaust cam sprocket seal is good.

The corrosion isn't an issue, 20kV will blow right through it.

 

[Surf Blau]

I love this forum! Thanks for the good news, I’ll get to work asap!

 

[Surf Blau]

Update on the misfiring; Cleaned up both distributor caps and rotors as a temporary measure, and the car works as expected again - it even feels like it is idling smoother than before, but that might just be my imagination. Found a set of good used caps and rotors (at 20$) that I plan to modify with the recommended venting slots. I will inspect the insulators upon installation, but frankly don't expect any issues with these as they look pretty new and I don't experience any other symptoms of misfiring.

Now, another thing I'm unsure of is the sound my air pump makes - it does sound like an air pump (duh!), but it's fairly loud and I'm wondering if its supposed to be like this. It also shuts off when the ASR-light comes on (still haven't had time to renew the brake fluid ) and I've never seen it engage again before I start the car again. I've attached a video showing the sound and it shutting off.