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Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

...to the tune of $179 !!

I declined to pay that and described the install as taking literally 5 minutes to accomplish. The service rep was holding his ground saying that MB was saying it takes an hour of tech time. I retorted back saying if I'm going to pay the an hour how about having the tech do something else also ? Like pull codes etc... something to use up 55 minutes... rep said no problem we do that anyways...

About 15 min later rep called me to pick up the tumbler...i signed a waiver and left.


iphone 2018 1173.JPG iphone 2018 1172.JPG
 
Flat rate time is not just the time actually doing the repair with the parts and tools in your hand sitting in the car. Flat rate includes finding the key, going to get your car, getting the parts from the parts department, getting the tools out and actually looking up the work instructions, and then repairing the car and then writing the crappy story on the computer and in some cases coding out the labor times. Then when you are done going on a test drive. Then taking the car to the parking lot and putting the keys back where they go. It also pays the service advisor the and everyone else that touches your car from the moment you pull in the drive to when you get back in it.
On your car to do it properly you have to remove the headlight knob remove the big nut behind that. Take the trim off from that side and around the steering wheel and the trim around the igintion switch. Then replace the part. and Put all that back together. And all those plastic parts are 30years old and probably have been taken apart a dozen times. Hopefully they are not already broken or break when the tech touches them and then etc etc .
 

outrbnks

Member
One hour isn't bad, on my 92 , the local stealership said 4 hours, I protested, but they would not budge. The tech kept saying the whole dash had to come out, yada, yada yada...

I kept saying no. no. no, just a 5 minute thing "according to popular folk lore" , I would have reluctantly accepted a 1 hour compromise, but no compromise was offered.

So in the end, I walked out as well... it truly was about a 10 minute job with the tool...
 

tomer

Member
Outrbnks, so you did not have to remove any of the dash trim pieces mentioned by whipplem104?

thx
 
Whippelem104, I appreciate the response from a MB technicians point of view, however I just felt that their fee was a hard pill to swallow considering this is a mandated service, there is no choice here. Parts dept was not going to release the tumbler...
 

gerryvz

Site Honcho
Staff member
Look at my HOW-TO for the process. It is truly a 10-minute job as done DIY.

CHEERS,
Gerry
 

lowman

E500E Resto God, Hierarki-Man
Flat rate time is not just the time actually doing the repair with the parts and tools in your hand sitting in the car. Flat rate includes finding the key, going to get your car, getting the parts from the parts department, getting the tools out and actually looking up the work instructions, and then repairing the car and then writing the crappy story on the computer and in some cases coding out the labor times. Then when you are done going on a test drive. Then taking the car to the parking lot and putting the keys back where they go. It also pays the service advisor the and everyone else that touches your car from the moment you pull in the drive to when you get back in it.
On your car to do it properly you have to remove the headlight knob remove the big nut behind that. Take the trim off from that side and around the steering wheel and the trim around the igintion switch. Then replace the part. and Put all that back together. And all those plastic parts are 30years old and probably have been taken apart a dozen times. Hopefully they are not already broken or break when the tech touches them and then etc etc .
I just had to say thank you for this reply..cause this is really the bottom line..that not all people do take into consideration.
This is how its done..and this is why it take more than 5-10 ,minutes.Its the time spent from the tech gets the order..picking up the car..doing the work...all the way forward to the time that the order is returned to the guy at the front desk.

Again..thanx for this reply :)
Greetings from me,Ex Mercedes Tech.But still working on cars for a living..and as one of my main hobbies :)
 

outrbnks

Member
Outrbnks, so you did not have to remove any of the dash trim pieces mentioned by whipplem104?

thx
I had looked at a couple you tube videos and then saw a post referencing Gerry's write up.

I followed Gerry's instructions, that little trim piece came off as well. I don't know if the dealership mechanic actually looked closer at what was needed.

I had previously had the tumbler replaced on one of our 129's by them, and that was a 4 hour charge which I didn't like, but understood.

I thought I could convince them this was different, not possible. Could have been the service manager or the mechanic being stubborn, but it forced me to buy one of the tool kits on eBay, worked perfect.
 
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Jlaa

Active member
I just had to say thank you for this reply..cause this is really the bottom line..that not all people do take into consideration.
This is how its done..and this is why it take more than 5-10 ,minutes.Its the time spent from the tech gets the order..picking up the car..doing the work...all the way forward to the time that the order is returned to the guy at the front desk.

Again..thanx for this reply :)
Greetings from me,Ex Mercedes Tech.But still working on cars for a living..and as one of my main hobbies :)
To be fair, I must preface this by saying that I am often proven to be completely stupid and dimwitted --- Replacing the ignition tumbler on my car took me about an hour. Maybe a little longer. Maybe 75 minutes. I did indeed have the proper tool. It was my first time doing so. I read all the HOW TOs multiple times in advance.

Firstly, I carefully took apart the plastic pieces around the steering column --- they are old and brittle

Secondly, it took me at least 15-20 minutes of fiddling to get the tool sunk all the way in holes, because the key switch has to be rotated JUST so.

Thirdly, I had a bear of a time getting everything back together, because I didn't realize how everything fit/clicked back together until I did it WRONGLY --- only to have a mini panic attack, take everything apart again, and then doing it RIGHTLY.

Of course now if I had to do it again, it would probably take me 30 minutes.
 

nocfn

E500E Guru
The tumbler can be a faceplant - no doubt. It either takes 10 minutes or an hour if you forget. Various degrees of wear determine how accurate the stops are in relation to the dots on the steel shroud. I have done 3 of these and 2 were in and out in minutes but one took and hour. That one was broken in two spots and didn't line up properly, read as the entry of the tool stopped because the center of the tumbler was separated from the entry section of the tumbler.

Just be calm, be in a ventilated area with your doors open and the car parked in a way where it doesn't block the other cars if you have a problem and are "temporarily" immobile.
 
Thank you for the response.
Parts dept made a big deal since it is a TRP theft related part. Made a huge federal case out of it. Caught me by surprise.

Anyway, in no way did I did I mean to disrespect technicians !
 

Klink

postwhore posterchild
Staff member
This TRP, “the related part“ protocol is a massive PITA to us. We absolutely effing hate it with the fire of a thousand suns, and we really hate the way it makes you hate us. That being said, it is a MB requirement, and the dealers are literally at risk of losing their franchises over it. People have lost jobs over not following it, and anyone that lost a job for not following it probably will not be hired at any other Benz dealer. Now with THAT being said, there is some slight wiggle room in the interpretation of the requirements. I will try to find out more and clarify, but some dealers interpret it strictly, as in they believe they are not allowed to deliver a theft related part to you unless the vehicle is literally on the premises.

Some others believe that it is permissible to deliver a TRP to a customer’s location with the vehicle present there. Say for example, a Roadside Assistance technician that has gone through appropriate TRP training and screening can take a key for example, verify that it functions, and hand it over to the customer. Most, and this includes us, believe that it is NOT permissible to deliver a TRP part without seeing the customer, OR his proven legal representative, appropriate photo IDs, proof of ownership, and the vehicle. But seriously, it is a big deal at the dealers, the dealers do hate it, and given the different possible interpretations of the rules the only absolutely safe thing to do is exactly what your dealer tried to do.

I know it seems ridiculous, and in many cases, it is, but believe me, it wasn’t purely them trying to be difficult. That may have been part of it, but it wasn’t all of it.

:klink:
 

Klink

postwhore posterchild
Staff member
One hour isn't bad, on my 92 , the local stealership said 4 hours, I protested, but they would not budge. The tech kept saying the whole dash had to come out, yada, yada yada...

I kept saying no. no. no, just a 5 minute thing "according to popular folk lore" , I would have reluctantly accepted a 1 hour compromise, but no compromise was offered.

So in the end, I walked out as well... it truly was about a 10 minute job with the tool...
Somebody there had no idea what they were talking about, or, they were under the impression that they were going to be surgically removing a seized tumbler or steering lock, etc. Even then, four hours is arguably a little much...
 

Rouven036

.036 Info God (aka "Big R")
Some clarification about flat rate times for this particular job (replacement of ignition switch tumbler) :

46-8010 replacement of ignition switch tumbler 0.3hrs (x local labor rate)

46-8010 replacement of steering lock 1.5h (x local labor rate/h)
Includes all required work steps)
 

195910

Intl 500E GTG coordinator
You guys have it easy, atleast you have the option of multiple dealerships and being able to complain.

Q8 has only one M-B distributor for the past 60years and they run a "you pay whatever we say" policy, loyal M-B families switched to lexus/BMW because of them. Minimal spare parts inventory, corruption, no marketing or promotions what so ever, no support for enthusiasts (the M-B Club Kuwait)... and if you import a Mercedes from Germany/US/Gulf its the greatest sin. The labour rate is similar to western Europe but without the service level.

BUT, finally M-B listened to our calls and logical complaints and are pulling the franchise!! We are going to be the first country in the world where the franchise will change, lets just hope the new distributor learns the lesson.

#not_a_loyal_b***er_customer
 
Klink, as always, i appreciate the clarification and the behind scenes insight. Corporate attorneys are behind this...

Thank you
 

Klink

postwhore posterchild
Staff member
Klink, as always, i appreciate the clarification and the behind scenes insight. Corporate attorneys are behind this...

Thank you
Indeed they are. Something BAD happened to somebody important somewhere, I'm quite sure of that.
:whip2:
 

Rouven036

.036 Info God (aka "Big R")
You guys have it easy, atleast you have the option of multiple dealerships and being able to complain.

Q8 has only one M-B distributor for the past 60years and they run a "you pay whatever we say" policy, loyal M-B families switched to lexus/BMW because of them. Minimal spare parts inventory, corruption, no marketing or promotions what so ever, no support for enthusiasts (the M-B Club Kuwait)... and if you import a Mercedes from Germany/US/Gulf its the greatest sin. The labour rate is similar to western Europe but without the service level.

BUT, finally M-B listened to our calls and logical complaints and are pulling the franchise!! We are going to be the first country in the world where the franchise will change, lets just hope the new distributor learns the lesson.

#not_a_loyal_b***er_customer
Cool, didn't know that - I thought the reasons are routed differently till now. But it seems you must know the real story!
 
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Rouven036

.036 Info God (aka "Big R")
Thank you for the response.
Parts dept made a big deal since it is a TRP theft related part. Made a huge federal case out of it. Caught me by surprise.

Anyway, in no way did I did I mean to disrespect technicians !
In deed TRP parts are quite specific and tight in the handling of parts etc pp. This is absolutely important for the users safety as well as people who handle those items.
 

Rouven036

.036 Info God (aka "Big R")
One more thing in regards your post Ahmad, I do really hope too that things will be better in the future for the customer and the brand!
 

195910

Intl 500E GTG coordinator
Cool, didn't know that - I thought the reasons are routed differently till now. But it seems you must know the real story!
:D Well Rouven, the complete reasons are a bit more complicated (customer dissatisfaction, issues with completing payment, issues between the two families, etc..), but the result is the same..right?

I am sure you agree that if Mercedes-Benz owners in Q8 were happy with the distributor, then sales would have been great and Daimler would have been happy from him... and he wouldn't have sent that internal memo to his employees telling them that 31/12 is the last day. ;)
 

8899

Active member
Replacing the ignition tumbler on my car took me about an hour. Maybe a little longer. Maybe 75 minutes. I did indeed have the proper tool. It was my first time doing so. I read all the HOW TOs multiple times in advance.
Yep, me too. Took at least an hour and I also had the proper tool and did the research. Had to make couple phone-assist calls as well...
 

Rouven036

.036 Info God (aka "Big R")
See this topic is nothing for this place here. Customer satisfaction however has nothing to do with that-this is a fact even so the local word of mouth would love to put this in. That sales is not good is a regional effect due to certain economic situations, regional in-stability etc plus the dealers availability of cars or its limitations due whatever reason. I mean look at other luxury car dealers who lost up to 50% in new car sales! We had similar drops like BMW and Audi but way less than Porsche, Ferrari, Bentley etc..
Anyways as said it's a market with huge potential and I hope it will be exploited properly.
 
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