HOW-TO: Complete W124 Sunroof Refurbishment

[gerryvz]

Response from MB Annapolis parts:

Hello ,

part number 124-782-00-30 - no stock, but not blocked for ordering at this time

124-782-01-30 - 7 in calif

124-782-02-30 - 7 in florida

126-782-01-30 - plenty of stock

140-782-01-38 - correct no longer available

My recommendation is to place an order for what you can NOW and HOARD THOSE FELT PADS !!!

I bought spares of all of these back in the 2017 tine frame, so they were all avaialble back then.

 

[JC220]

Ordered all of the pads and alignment tools to get this maintenance done as part of my headliner replacement. MB of Naperville informed me today that the 2 tools (124589182100, 124589172100) and larger felt pads (1247820030) are NLA.

Anyone that has done this, what has the condition of the used large felt pads been upon removal? Should I scour the web for NOS parts, or just apply gleitpaste to the old ones?

Dont worry about the tools you really dont require them at all. I hardly use mine ever. Careful adjustment and more importantly marking things before taking them apart to service is the way to go.

Ref the larger pads these can normally be re-used. They dont tend to fall off and go AWOL like the other ones, nor do they wear out in at least a dozen cars I've taken apart.

FWIW I keep a baggie with all serviceable pads from working at these. Aka even when the pads are/ were available I keep any old ones that are serviceable. This way if they do go NLA at any point I'll have a backup supply for my cars in a bind.

 

[JC220]

My recommendation is to place an order for what you can NOW and HOARD THOSE FELT PADS !!!

Caveat to this, please only buy what you need and will use folks! Eg buying up a dozen of something because it's cheap could leave fellow 124 owners in a bind

 

[gerryvz]

Caveat to this, please only buy what you need and will use folks! Eg buying up a dozen of something because it's cheap could leave fellow 124 owners in a bind

Yes, but when you have a ton of W124 cars like the GSXR and Wazer do, you have to buy extras for all of them to properly service the sunroofs !!!

 

[JC220]

Yes, but when you have a ton of W124 cars like the GSXR and Wazer do, you have to buy extras for all of them to properly service the sunroofs !!!

"Thou shall not encourage hoarding" However, yes fair enough those with several w124s are entitled to service the fleet Get all sunroof parts from a 124 donor when possible. Even the wind deflectors can break at the attachment point. I keep the lot for Saloons and Coupes in my hoard.

 

[BigN]

Thanks so much for the fantastic write up and pictures. Just repaired the lift/tilt kit on my 560sel.
Hugely appreciated

 

[JC220]

Thanks so much for the fantastic write up and pictures. Just repaired the lift/tilt kit on my 560sel.
Hugely appreciated

You're most welcome! I'm from County Tyrone - see your from Ireland too. Welcome!

I need to service the sunroof in a few more benzes this summer including 140s which I hope are fairly similar to what I already documented here

 

[gsxr]

part number 124-782-00-30 - no stock, but not blocked for ordering at this time

FYI... MB Classic shows these may be orderable, although possibly unavailable, so the order may be cancelled. Spendy buggers, $23+ list price, 4 total.

https://partssearch.mercedes-benz-classic.com/parts/A1247820030?tt=automatic

As Joe mentioned previously, these large rectangle pieces can almost always be re-used.

 

[nehuge]

In case anybody is curious, I made a video of a sunroof removal given the How-To that this provided. I was in a noisy junkyard, and I was in a hurry so sorry for the noise and "rushed" state I was in. Anyway, hope it helps people.

 

[nehuge]

Additionally, I know I may get flamed for asking, but some of these felt pads, at $20 a piece when I have two W124's to refurb, adds up to some cash. Would anyone consider the refurb kits off of ebay *shudder* for not the arms, but the felt parts? I know this make purists cringe.

 

[JC220]

@LWB250 made an excellent post about headliner removal in a w124 which may be a useful reference for people looking at this topic!

See below for lwb250's writeup in his owners thread

OWNER - LWB250 (E420) | Owners and Their Cars

Sounds good, Dan. It would be interesting to try just the insulators first, since your car is currently in "persistent failure" mode. Usually, the misfire problem is intermittent and only after being parked for 2+ weeks, making it very difficult to see if changing part "X" cures the misfire. And...

www.500eboard.co

 

[mikeym]

How does the tilt mechanism work? I started the R&R because of non-functioning arms and the mechanism needs lubrication. I took most of the stuff out and can see the cable that comes from the motor move smoothly when using the sunroof button to slide. But, nothing for tilt and hence, the question.

Secondly, anyone knows if there were changes to parts/mechanism for facelift cars? FSM has separate docs for pre-facelift versus facelift but not on other procedures but details are minimal.

Aside, the can of magic paste now lists for $94. Not a job for the faint of heart with so much old, brittle hardware and each ones costs pretty coin

Thx.

 

[gsxr]

How does the tilt mechanism work? I started the R&R because of non-functioning arms and the mechanism needs lubrication. I took most of the stuff out and can see the cable that comes from the motor move smoothly when using the sunroof button to slide. But, nothing for tilt and hence, the question.

Not sure what you mean "how does it work"...? The cable pushes forward from the "closed" position, and the mechanism causes the roof to pop / tilt up.

Secondly, anyone knows if there were changes to parts/mechanism for facelift cars? FSM has separate docs for pre-facelift versus facelift but not on other procedures but details are minimal.

Facelift are NOT different. The only change was back in 1986-87 when the original parts were upgraded. All cars from late 86 / early 87 onward should use the same part numbers, same upgraded components.

Aside, the can of magic paste now lists for $94. Not a job for the faint of heart with so much old, brittle hardware and each ones costs pretty coin...

Someone might sell small quantities of this. The full can is a lifetime supply for dozens of cars.

 

[mikeym]

Not sure what you mean "how does it work"...? The cable pushes forward from the "closed" position, and the mechanism causes the roof to pop / tilt up.

that’s what I wanted to know: with slide part of the switch, the cable moved back and forth. with tilt, it pushes up which causes the lift arms to lift the sunroof. Looks like I may have a defective switch.

 

[gsxr]

Could be either switch, OR the relay at the sunroof motor, I think. If you have access to spares, try both.

 

[Sam SL]

Looks like I may have a defective switch.

When you push the switch to the position for tilt, does the cable move forward?

 

[mikeym]

When you push the switch to the position for tilt, does the cable move forward?

Nope. Just the slide back and forth. Will troubleshoot more while waiting for parts for the R&R.
Kudos to JC220 for this diy thread!

 

[Sam SL]

Sounds like a bad switch

 

[mikeym]

Part 1- Disassembly of the sunroof and removal of both lift arms
10: Then twist the plastic trim through 90 degrees and remove these strips both sides-

@JC220 Can you please explain step #10? How is the plastic part attached to the car? I have tried pushing/pulling but afraid of breaking brittle plastics.

Thx!

 

[JC220]

@JC220 Can you please explain step #10? How is the plastic part attached to the car? I have tried pushing/pulling but afraid of breaking brittle plastics.

Thx!

These plastic strips are attached with screws. Step 9 shows a photo of said screws. They are pretty obvious when looking in there too.

Take the screws out, push the lift arms back out of the way and you can remove these plastic trims. They dont come straight out you have to wiggle and rotate them as described. Pretty easy part of the process to be honest

 

[gsxr]

UPDATE:

Step #9 and #10 are only possible on the coupé. Original post edited for clarity.

On the sedan/wagon, the plastic guide rail shown below is not fastened with screws, and cannot be removed without breaking the plastic rail. Don't try to remove the plastic rail, if working on a sedan or wagon!

 

[mikeym]

Thanks and works as you suggested. It is a bit of struggle and hard to describe but the lift arms came out. Now, on to clean up and restoration. Freaking way over-engineered system and too many moving pieces jammed in there....

Note that step #10 is optional. I've never removed these plastic blocks, however it makes it easier to clean everything if they are removed. And, it's also easier to R&R the lift arms. It's tricky to get the lift arms back in with new felts with the plastic side blocks in place, but possible. FSM shows this and I've done it several times.

View attachment 112081

 

[gsxr]

See update in post #2 and also #71. I was removing lift arms from a junkyard 400E and tried to remove the plastic guide rails on the side, and noticed there were no screws. There was a metal bracket / tab in the way, which I bent outward. But then when trying to pry the guide rail out, the retaining tabs snapped off. Looking back at the FSM, these rails are only retained by screws on the coupé.

While it may be possible to remove these rails from the sedan/wagon if the entire roof frame was removed from the car (insane amount of work), it isn't required.

 

[mikeym]

New parts are on their way. As others mentioned, many are out of stock and NLA, so plan to reuse what you can.

What is a good oil to lubricate the lift arms? They are in good condition but not smooth. Had a lot of gunk that had to come off with soap and water.

Secondly, the part of the body headliner by the sunroof has come off from the roof (you can see the yellow foam in the pic). Is there a strong glue to apply to hold it? I am fixing the dang sunroof but opening it or windows means wind gets under the headliner and starts rattling it.
Liquid nails may be?

 

[gsxr]

FSM says to use Gleitpaste on all the felt pads, and all moving parts of the lift arms. That's what I used, I did not apply oil anywhere. Note the new felt pad at the very front (the smallest D-shaped pad) is now plain rubber, not felt-coated! Grrrrr.

I don't think you'll be able to patch the headliner sag. Need to remove the entire headliner and have it professionally re-covered. There's a layer of thin foam between the fabric and fiberglass shell which won't adhere to any glue. You'd have to scrape off the foam, and it will probably not look good if you patch it...

 

[gsxr]

Quick update... if your sunroof cable over-extends, make sure the tube is not spread apart, and that the clutch is not over-tightened. Video below was not an E500E, but shows what can happen when things go wrong.

In this particular case, the sunroof broke such that it would not close fully. An indy shop was unable to get the sunroof closed, and installed a new motor & cable, thinking that was the cause. But with the new cable and motor, the sunroof still would not close. They said the entire headliner had to come out to fix the mechanism. The owner declined further repairs and the shop returned the car with the sunroof not working. I'm not sure if the shop damaged the tube end, as I didn't see it before they touched it. Replacing the lift arms cured the closing problem, and as shown in the video, fixing the tube outlet (and replacing the cable a second time) cured the popup function as well.

 

[mikeym]

Just got the supply of parts to finish the sunroof job.
No luck on 140-782-xx-xx but should be able to reuse the existing ones. I did order all others even though some may be usable, so, saving them for my hoard pile. The are getting harder to find. Even though not needed, got the alignment gauges as well since they were the last ones in Germany, so why not.

And, like everyone else, go the jar of gleitpaste as well to last many lifetimes. For curiosity, I asked the dealer and he told me his cost is $56.
Looking forward to putting everything together and go nowhere....

 

[mikeym]

When removing the wind deflector, are the left and right mounts supposed to pop out or should the deflector come out of them?

I did the latter and popped the defector out of the mounts but FSM seems to indicate that mounts should come out as well and stay attached to the deflector.

See the attached pic of the driver side mount still in place.

 

[gsxr]

The mount in your photo normally remains in place, unless you have a reason to remove it. The deflector pops out of the mount.

 

[mikeym]

The mount in your photo normally remains in place, unless you have a reason to remove it. The deflector pops out of the mount.

Thanks! That's what I have done but interpreting the FSM differently.
Looks like #8 referred to as mount is the whole part including spring, retainer and the clip that is attached to the car. This way, removing and installing the deflector becomes easier. The reason I went down this rabbit hole is because of trouble installing the deflector and afraid that I might break something.

 

[mikeym]

Taking a closer look at the procedure and having done it both ways, FSM steps are easier. It is easier to take out the mounts (#8 in the pic below) with a screwdriver, assemble the spring and the hardware on the deflector while it is out and install it back in.
Good news is that for its age, the hardware holds well and seems to be available.

Thanks! That's what I have done but interpreting the FSM differently.
Looks like #8 referred to as mount is the whole part including spring, retainer and the clip that is attached to the car. This way, removing and installing the deflector becomes easier. The reason I went down this rabbit hole is because of trouble installing the deflector and afraid that I might break something.

View attachment 115629

 

[Efraim]

Hello,

I’m in the middle of sun roof refurbish project. Big thanks to JC220 and the forum about informative HOW-TO tutorial. Still couple questions:

- Is the sun roof sealing easy to replace?
- I wonder if A124 780 00 98 is the part number for roof sealing? Could you confirm?
- How do I remove the air guide in front of sun roof without cracking the mountings and is it easy to install again? Springs could be tricky, how about here?
- Does anybody know the part number for pad pointed in the picture (behind lifting arm) and the rivet of headliner?



Thanks,

 

[gsxr]

The plastic rivets are 001-988-09-81 (upper, male) and 001-988-10-81 (lower, female).

I believe the pad is 202-782-01-91 (60x15 mm).

 

[sheward]

The sunroof seal is not difficult to replace. Just a bit tedious pressing the spline into the groove. I will look at my invoices when I can for the part no.

The way I removed the air deflector was by carefully prying the small shafts at either end of the deflector out of the plastic C channels. I have done so twice without issue. I would try to perform this while parts are warm if possible.

drew

 

[nocfn]

The air deflector is not hard to install. I bought new and new springs back in the day. If you take out the sunroof steel, (two 10mm nuts) you can get that seal in pretty easy. It helps if the rubber is warm from the sun and if needed a bit of soapy water in a spray bottle and various plastic tools.

Since you are there it should be obvious to clean and lube everything. First off, run lots of warm soapy water down the water gutters and into the corners to clean out debris that is stuck in there. It cannot hurt to run some compressed air down the drains if they are slow drains.

 

[Twilling]

A124 780 00 98 is indeed the correct roof sealing for E500E´s.

 

[Efraim]

Thanks for the hints and part numbers. I managed to remove the deflector succesfully with hot air blower (the sun didn't help even it was shining outside but temp was -20C and +10C in garage )

Also I ordered same missing parts. All pads and parts with tuft surface are extremely expensive, it must be due to manufacturing process.

 

[JC220]

Did you get the Glietpaste?

"If it ain't Gliet, it ain't right!"

 

[Efraim]

I have some. Need to beg (or buy) more.

 

[gsxr]

All pads and parts with tuft surface are extremely expensive, it must be due to manufacturing process.

The price has increased from years ago, IIRC. I suspect they may be running low on inventory and increasing the price to reduce demand, as they might not do another production run, especially if demand is low. Also, the smallest pads at the front no longer have the felt / tuft surface, which I was really disappointed to see. The new ones are plain rubber. Those smallest pads are the most common failures IME.

 

[gerryvz]

Looking up the sunroff slider parts, the part number 124 782 00 30 has been superseded to 124 782 00 30 64, indicating a supplier change.

All of the sunroof slider parts ARE available, with the exception of 140 782 01 38, which has been NLA for some time.

It may be a good time for long-term owners to pick up a full set of sunroof slider parts. Generally speaking, a full set (sans the NLA 140 part above) can be had for $130.

 

[gsxr]

It may be a good time for long-term owners to pick up a full set of sunroof slider parts. Generally speaking, a full set (sans the NLA 140 part above) can be had for $130.

For a lower-mile car (say, <100kmi), I agree, a spare set of sliders would be good hoard spare parts.

On a high-mile car (200kmi+), I'd consider buying the complete lift arms, which includes all the sliders. While the cost is double, it also includes some wear items which are non-replaceable, and the metal moving parts can have significant wear on high-mile parts. I've pulled several from junkyard cars and some were not really usable due to excess wear. Unless you have new/good ones next to old/worn ones, it's not always easy to tell the difference as to if it's excessively worn.

 

[Efraim]

The smallest ones was worst condition in my case as there was none. They have vanished - the new one I'll glue. Really positive issue was that there was no rust at all and water channels were quite clean.

My car has 280kkm behind but the mechnism is still firm only with minor play - I guess. If I would know before (~24h) that the mechanic includes the pads I might replace them (both A124 780 05/06 12 are available).

I desided to renew the roof sealing since its now easily doable and was quite hard and partly worn.
I knew this will be expensive project. I have bought most of the pad years ago (hoarding..?) and the rest now. Totally the this project will cost me about 410€ (pads and the sealing, couple rivets and springs to spoiler).

I didn't order the pad/insulator 202-782-01-91 as it doesn't sound to be correct one if I looked carefully in EPC. None of the sizes listed in EPC (60x15, 5x15, 8x35) do not match, which should be like 65x10. Old ones are in acceptable condition so I'll continue with them.

 

[gsxr]

Pad/insulator 202-782-01-91 is adhesive-backed, and supposed to be cut to fit as needed for smaller applications.

I ordered this last summer for use on the drip rail. Before & after pics below.

 

[Efraim]

What is the size of one piece of the adhesive tape (202-782-01-91)? Are there enough to replace other small pads around of the lift arm?
Optionally... that material seems to be normal velcro tape that should be available in hardware stores, right?

 

[gsxr]

I think 202-782-01-91 is 60x15mm but I'd have to measure one to confirm. And yes, it is similar to Velcro tape, although I don't think it's identical.

 

[TerryA]

I think 202-782-01-91 is 60x15mm but I'd have to measure one to confirm. And yes, it is similar to Velcro tape, although I don't think it's identical.

Just a note about products from the hardware store. How about UV and weather resistance?
Wouldn’t OE parts be a safer bet if available?

 

[Efraim]

Just a note about products from the hardware store. How about UV and weather resistance?
Wouldn’t OE parts be a safer bet if available?

I agree. The durability of the glue is also one important criteria.

 

[Efraim]

Hi, nocfn and sheward
I assume you have replaced the sun roof seal with success. The installation was pretty easy to do after I unscrewed the holder rail. But the challenge is to get the roof moving smoothly in its opening since the new seal is slightly thicker than old one. Actually so thick that I’ll need to assist the motor by hand to get it passed the seal. Not healthy for the arms.
Did you discover the same? Yes, the seal is original MB part and placed into bottom of groove.

 

[gsxr]

I found the new seal was VERY tight. After confirming it's properly seated, close the roof, and keep it closed for a week or two. That should press it into shape and movement should improve with time.