Lowered car problems/spring pads

[Jdpeachey]

Good morning everyone, yesterday I got done doing a bunch of work to my 400e, including H&R springs and Bilstien B8 shocks all around. I was very pleased with how it looked, until I took it for a test drive. It rubs entirely too much. I’m running staggered monoblocks, 7.5 ET 35 with 215/45R17 fronts and 8.5 ET 30 with 225/45R17 rears. I’ll post a few pictures later but the setup dropped the car a lot farther than I was expecting. Front right tire is actually tucked behind the fender. It rubs on all 4 corners during moderately spirited driving, and the left rear rubs at every bump or sharp turn. I didn’t replace the spring pads, it has 2 notch all around. So my question is how much difference do pads make? Do spring pads compress over time? If I’d replace all of them with 3 notch could I expect to see an improvement?

Also I found pad part numbers in the forum for a 500E. Are those the same as 400E or basically any w124?

Thanks in advance.

 

[gsxr]

This can't be right. The internet claims you can go much wider / more aggressive with no rubbing whatsoever. </sarc>

Seriously though, your fronts shouldn't rub if you have installed the fender spacers per the AMG wheel install docs. Your rear setup will require rolling the fender lips as much as possible.

To start with, you need to measure all four corners and see what the ride height is in inches, from fender lip to wheel center (see below). Spring pads are irrelevant. You need a target ride height, and adjust springs/pads to achieve that height.

 

[Gatorblue92]

Spring pads are the problem. I’m running the same setup but I’ve got #3 pads on the rear and might have #4 on the front. Need to check my parts orders to confirm but I’ve got no rubbing issues at all

 

[Jdpeachey]

So I measured and the measurements are
LF 12.5
RF 12
RR 12.75
LR 12.75

 

[Kridre]

I'm running almost the same setup on my 400E, with 3 notch pads and 16x7.5 et46 215/55 wheels, it will rub front fender a little bit anyway and only left wheel arch at full lock to the right. You can alawys try front amg spacer kit to give it some more room up front. Picure is old, with 4 notch front spring pads and bad front struts. For reference only.

 

[Gatorblue92]

Confirmed I’m running #3 pads all around. Exactly the same setup otherwise.

 

[asultan]

Did you buy the right springs? 6cyl vs 8cyl are different for weight purposes

 

[gsxr]

So I measured and the measurements are
LF 12.5
RF 12
RR 12.75
LR 12.75

That car is sitting on the bump stops on all four corners.

What part number H&R springs did you install? Are they new and you are sure they were not cut? You'll need different springs to get the ride height up to sane levels, assuming you want it to ride and/or drive decently on public roads. You can fix the rubbing as-is but riding on the stop buffers is a bad idea.

 

[Jdpeachey]

That car is sitting on the bump stops on all four corners.

What part number H&R springs did you install? Are they new and you are sure they were not cut? You'll need different springs to get the ride height up to sane levels, assuming you want it to ride and/or drive decently on public roads. You can fix the rubbing as-is but riding on the stop buffers is a bad idea.

The part number I ordered is 29569-2. Ill look this evening to make sure that thats what I accually put on because I didn't verify. They were brand new.
I looked up a 300e and they also use the same part number. I'm looking up info on the H&R website. Is that the right #'s?

 

[Jdpeachey]

Did you buy the right springs? 6cyl vs 8cyl are different for weight purposes

Yes according to the H&R website. Part # 29569-2.

 

[gsxr]

29569-2 is for a 6-cyl car. H&R's catalog lists them for the 400E/E420 also but that is wrong. And it is why your car is sitting too low. I can't believe they have this on their website. Same (claimed) 1.3" drop with either E320 or E420 from the same springs? You cannot have the same springs for two completely different chassis (6 vs 8 cyl) and expect the same lowering, when the V8 car weighs a few hundred pounds more!

I'd get factory Sportline springs but those will cost more than H&R. Alternately, you can cut your stock springs, a little at a time to achieve the desired ride height. I'd aim for 14.0" all around and be really really careful if going any lower.

https://www.hrsprings.com/application/search/results/25/418/1994/

 

[Jdpeachey]

@Gatorblue92 What are the part numbers on the springs you are running?

I cant be the only one running H&R springs. What are people using?

 

[gsxr]

See his owner thread linked below.

Did you buy brand new H&R's, or used?

OWNER - gatorblue92 (E420) | Owners and Their Cars

Finally decided to make an owner thread as I think I have found a keeper. Found my newly acquired 95 E420 over on Peach Parts a few weeks ago and spent a few days drooling over a completely rust free southern car before purchasing a one way flight to Atlanta to bring it home. It's a late...

www.500eboard.co

 

[Jdpeachey]

See his owner thread linked below.

Did you buy brand new H&R's, or used?

OWNER - gatorblue92 (E420) | Owners and Their Cars

Finally decided to make an owner thread as I think I have found a keeper. Found my newly acquired 95 E420 over on Peach Parts a few weeks ago and spent a few days drooling over a completely rust free southern car before purchasing a one way flight to Atlanta to bring it home. It's a late...

www.500eboard.co

I have read the whole thread. I didnt see any part numbers; just said he got specific V8 ones and technically I did too according to H&R website.

The springs were brand new.

How much would #3 pads lift it?

 

[gsxr]

Each "point" thicker spring pad will lift that corner 1/4" max (wheel center to fender lip)... probably less. The pads are intended for fine tuning in small amounts. Large changes require different springs.

 

[Gatorblue92]

@Gatorblue92 What are the part numbers on the springs you are running?

I cant be the only one running H&R springs. What are people using?

Went back and found my invoice from ECS Tuning and it’s part number ES#: 1303335 which corresponds with 29569-2 from H&R’s parts catalog.

I bought these back in 2019 and I can’t believe they would be different now than back then. I suppose it’s possible the manufacturer changed the part number so it’s a single part for all W124 sedans and ECS used the same one.

The only difference in our setups is the spring pads and admittedly I’m extremely close to rubbing but it doesn’t.

 

[gsxr]

Check the numbers painted on the H&R springs. Make sure you didn't receive the wrong ones by accident...

 

[asultan]

i know it all seems like it checks out but i really think you got the 6 cyl joints on there

 

[Jdpeachey]

Do pads compress over time? For example would a set of brand new #2 pads ride higher than a set of 30 yr old ones?

 

[gsxr]

New #2 pads may ride a tiny amount higher - a few mm, at most - vs 30 year old pads.

Spring pads don't really wear out, the exception being thick ones (3pt, 4pt) get crushed over time which lowers the car slightly. For this reason, if you have choices for spring selection, it's better to have a taller spring with thinner pad (that won't crush) vs a short spring with thick pad, where the ride height will eventually change. New ones don't hurt, but isn't necessary if you aren't otherwise messing with springs for some other reason.

Based on your photos & measurements, pads will be of absolutely no help. Waste of time. You need different springs, after figuring out if you accidentally got the 29569-1 somehow.

 

[Jdpeachey]

This is what I have. Rears are the same but have HA stamped instead of VA.

 

[gsxr]

HA / VA is the German abbreviation for rear / front.

Difficult to tell if the wrong springs are in the box without removing them to measure free length, wire diameter, and number of coils. H&R would be able to tell you from that data if they are right or wrong. Additional specs here for comparison.

 

[asultan]

The fact that theyre also a metallic gunmetal, tells me they are also... 6 Cyl. Mine are the same colorway, and I've seen other colors but cant verify what color the V8 ones are.

 

[anderzen]

V8 springs should be black with white lettering. You can find my video here which shows bilstein B8 install and shows the spring. Something I discovered is the PO seems to have installed doubled up spring pads in front. I can send a side shot later to compare of how the car sits, but no rubbing thankfully.

 

[maw1124]

"Springs don't fit... let's just double up the pads."

SMDH

maw

 

[anderzen]

yea logic wasn't the best and imo was unnecessary, I think it's a #1 pad and #4 pad, they were trying to do. Thankfully it rides fines so not too worried about it.

 

[maw1124]

No doubt.

It's just been on my mind lately with the influx of all these YouTube DIY car guys. So when you buy used these days, you have no idea what kind of [un]educated guesses the prior owner made. It's even worse than before. Used cars were always a crap shoot of the prior owner's care, that you're trying to weed out in your purchase process. Now, everyone cites "the internet" for whatever they tried to do on their performance German car, then they wonder why modified cars sell for less. Worse than that, when it doesn't come off exactly as planned, they pass the results of their failed experimentation on to the next owner to discover. I digress.

But it's terrible.

maw

 

[anderzen]

yea... any car that is messed with I try to justify purchase by making sure I buy it cheap enough that I can be okay with whatever I find that I don't find during initial inspection/drive... but always a bit of a gamble buying a used machine that carries your life around at high speeds
This one has fortunately been a very solid car overall, had been decently refreshed engine wise and was bought for 2k... has quickly become one of my favorite cars ever.

 

[anderzen]

225/45r17 on H&R + B8’s, this is how she sits for reference