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MKB motorenbau visit😁

Goran124

E500E Enthusiast
Member
In search of the best place to restore the engine in my armored proto-Hammer, I ended up at a place directly connected to the legendary AMG Hammer‼️

Before AMG became a global name, it was just a few obsessed men building engines.🏎️

This place keeps that spirit alive. This is not just another workshop. This is part of AMG history.📖

MKB Motorenbau, founded by one of the AMG founders(Erhard Melcher) and one of the mechanics from the original AMG days, is a place where that history still physically exists.⏳

And yes — those famous photos of Erhard Melcher working on engines, known all over the internet… the originals are right here.😲

In one of the photos, you can see the first AMG-tuned legendary M117 engine, along with the date and time of its first start-up.

I also have to thank Selcuk Helmut for taking the time to show me around the workshop.🙏

I saw one Hammer engine currently under restoration, as well as several M117 6.0 4V and 5.6 2V engines from the C126 line being rebuilt. Ive seen c126 6.0-4V car without widebody and also widebody c126 but with 5.6 2V engine being rebuild. They are also working on various M120 versions, from the 6.0 AMG all the way up to the 7.0 AMG and 7.2 AMG. They also have some E500 models in the workshop, and one E400 AMG S2 currently being sorted. Also there is original w123 500TE AMG.😀

My impression was that this is the right place to rebuild the engine in my car.
Along with learning more about the company’s history, we also spent quite a lot of time talking about the Hammer models, and I learned many interesting details.
In their view, every W124 that received a V8 engine together with modifications to the suspension, rear differential, exhaust, reinforcements, brakes, and the complete chassis, body kit, and interior conversion can be considered a Hammer. This is because all of these cars were modified so extensively that it is not even that important whether the engine was a 5.0, 5.2, 5.4, 5.6, or 6.0, with either 2-valve or 4-valve heads. They were all so heavily reworked that, in terms of the general concept and core engineering principles, they were almost all fundamentally identical except engine variations. The engines were being developed continuously throughout that whole period. Of course, the most famous version is the 6.0 4-valve model, which is the one that actually made the Hammer name legendary.
The really special part was meeting a man who had worked at AMG forty years ago, building those very same engines, now rebuilding an engine that he himself had originally assembled four decades earlier. He is Panagiotis Avramidis, engineer #85 and was overhouling an engine with his stamp #85.
In any case, it was a very interesting live discussion.

P.S
I’m not sure if this is the correct section, so I kindly ask the admins to move it if it isn’t.

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Yes. Very cool. One big candy store. 🥰

This M120 7.2 is still a mystery. Confusing anyway.

I am beginning to think that the AMG 7.2 is actually an MKB 7.3.
And that the real 7.2 - with 7180 cm³ - is an MKB 7.2.
Maybe only availible for Lorinser and Gemballa?
 

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Yes. Very cool. One big candy store. 🥰

This M120 7.2 is still a mystery. Confusing anyway.

I am beginning to think that the AMG 7.2 is actually an MKB 7.3.
And that the real 7.2 - with 7180 cm³ - is an MKB 7.2.
Maybe only availible for Lorinser and Gemballa?
We had a conversation about M120 7.0 and 7.2, he said that the bore is the same, the 7.2 had a bit diferent design of the pistons and camshafts and different name. If you want i can send him a question, just writte me exactly what do you want me to ask him?

Edit: oh, i see you have a contact🤦‍♂️
 
Yes. I had contact. Many years ago.

I wonder where this leaves these AMG documents.
Worthless?

Edit: And even more important. Where does it leave this car registration paper?
It shows M120-7.2 on the upper right side.
And 7055 cm³ and 386 kW on the upper left.

Is this all illegal now?
 

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@weide1, if I understand correctly, the point of confusion is the apparent contradiction that the AMG M120 7.2 is listed in reg. brief with a displacement of 7055 cm³?


IMHO, “AMG M120 7.2” in that case is more of a commercial designation rather than a strictly technical one — much like the “6.3” badge on cars with the M156, which actually has 6208 cm³.

p.s. I have to admit, the idea that one of the greatest AMG engines might have been built at MKB genuinely hit me today.
Even more surprising, though, is that ChatGPT brought up this widely rumoured collaboration in the course of the discussion.

p.p.s. I still tend to believe that a personal visit to the AMG archives — which would likely need to be arranged well in advance, if it’s even possible — along with informal speaking to MKB veterans, could help piece together many parts of this puzzle.
 
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I mean, Melcher was always the gearhead

Hans Warner was the commercial guy within MB who enabled Melcher’s tinkering

So “engine work” was always “outsourced” to Melcher, wherever he was

It was never NOT like that

maw
 
Also on display there is this exhibit: on one side, an AMG-tuned head with 2 valves per cylinder, and on the other side, an AMG head with 4 valves per cylinder. MKB will be producing these heads and offering them for sale, and you will also be able to get a conversion to electronic fuel injection.
 

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@weide1, if I understand correctly, the point of confusion is the apparent contradiction that the AMG M120 7.2 is listed in reg. brief with a displacement of 7055 cm³?


IMHO, “AMG M120 7.2” in that case is more of a commercial designation rather than a strictly technical one — much like the “6.3” badge on cars with the M156, which actually has 6208 cm³.
It seems the "7.2" designation is a fictional number like the modern 6.3 M156 engines. All documentation points to the "E72 / 7.2" engines actually being 7,055cc, despite some people claiming otherwise.

Lots more discussion in this thread, where an SL72 for sale (link) was incorrectly advertised as a 7.2L engine, and the seller doubled down on that, claiming the SL72 actually had a 7.3L engine:

"When the SL72 was announced, early documents referenced the engine having a bore and stroke of 91.0 x 90.4. As This would have given a total displacement of 7,055cc. The nomenclature for the engine was “E72” which is where the name SL72 was derived from.
However those details were provided before any of the 35 SL72 models were actually produced. According to AMG Classic, the SL72 models built actually carried a newer, updated version of the engine that utilized a bore and stroke of 91.5 x 92.4 for an actual displacement of 7,291cc. Even though the engine type was still referred to as the “E72.”"
:detective:
 
However those details were provided before any of the 35 SL72 models were actually produced.
This document shows 11.01.96. Bottom left.
The auctioned SL72 shows engine conversion 01.06.1995.

So these details were still provided after SL72 were produced.
But maybe only for W/V/C140?
 

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This document shows 11.01.96. Bottom left.
The auctioned SL72 shows engine conversion 01.06.1995.

So these details were still provided after SL72 were produced.
But maybe only for W/V/C140?
It seems unlikely AMG would be building a completely different block for the 129 at the same time they were building engines for the 140.

However, I guess we'd need to see the R129 AMG engine spec sheet from 1996 to confirm.

:scratchchin:
 
Also on display there is this exhibit: on one side, an AMG-tuned head with 2 valves per cylinder, and on the other side, an AMG head with 4 valves per cylinder. MKB will be producing these heads and offering them for sale, and you will also be able to get a conversion to electronic fuel injection.
Only the yellow section of the head and that isn't confirmed. Would love to know price of complete head if they can do it. What about the other critical piece the intake...
 

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