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Pesky Screw Holding Insulator Hostage...Options

SirTweakAlot

SirTweakAlot

Active member
Member
Chasing down my strangled-once-warmed E420's problem, I tried going in for the insulators
82540

Well , in my typical fashion I managed to turn a quick diagnosis into one maniacal monolith of a job by stripping screws on BOTH distributor rotors.
82545

Tried hammering on a bigger Allen to no avail. Removed radiator and tried to get an extractor bit in there, but the now-headless no3 Allen screw stays put acting as a kind-of human shield for the for the rotor and its bracket beneath

82546

Both rotors are fairly new with under 1000 miles on 'em so it's frustrating gouging them up in my attempts to break the screws free

Can I drill through the rotor to get at the bracket screw or would that be the end of my little spinning friend?
82547
Any other suggestions would be enormously uplifting

....and, just to vent - BOSCH, Blow a gram of orange fog dust up your nose for charging a pirates booty for M119 consumables made from the same stuff as a $12 VW cap.... Aaarrgh
 
I feel for you man!

SirTweakAlot said:
Well , in my typical fashion I managed to turn a quick diagnosis into one maniacal monolith of a job by stripping screws on BOTH distributor rotors.
Click to expand...

I am very pleased to hear this, for this means I no longer have a monopoly on shade-tree imbecility when attempting mechanical repairs! 😳😳. BTW today a simple pad and rotor replacement on my Toyota turned into an affair that necessitated me having to take off the entire driver’s door to correct my idiocy. Don’t ask.

Good luck w the disti cap rotor. Pray to the @gsxr.
 
Dont panic - and here is how I would attempt extracting those bolts.

Step 1 - heat. Put the caps back on and run the motor until fully up to temp. This will assist removal.

Step 2- impact. If you dont have one already get yourself a spine, torx bit set. The torx will usually hammer in to a rounded Allen slot and get good grip. Do try to get nice hard hits with a big hammer on the bolts themselves - the impact will help shock them loose.

With the motor still as hot as possible and a suitable torx or similar bit driven in full depth apply nice even force with a breaker bar and steadily build pressure until they crack free.
 

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I can't help with additional ideas for removal, but once you get it apart... replace those bolt with something that has a better hex head. As mentioned elsewhere, the Bosch rotors have bolts which seem to be a 3.5mm (?) hex socket, and nothing fits tightly in there. Note that replacement bolts will need to have a few mm of thread Dremeled off below the head so they can rotate freely when the head is seated against the rotor. (Oh, the Bosch bolts also like to have the lockwashers break in two after a couple of uses... bonus!)

:sawzall:
 
First - cracking up at the drawing, very creative!

I was lucky in my allen bolt adventures, as the step with larger Torx tapped into the original hole worked. I would try what JC220 suggested, hopefully these will give in!

Regards,
D
 
I've seen a mechanic friend use a sharp chisel to tap the perimeter of a stuck bolt in a counter-clockwise direction. Might work for this application...
 
If the bolts aren't completely stripped, a 1/8" Allen socket might work.
I used a mini file to file the six sides of the Allen, I then tapped the socket into the screws and ratcheted them off. Then I had to pry off the screws and repeated this on all six screws.
 
Apologies I had mistaken this post earlier when I "sped" read it :doh: ( I thought you meant the centre bolts going into cams)

If it's those 3 small bolts you should try Torx etc first but I also believe you could carefully drill those 3 small heads off and will have studs left behind (albeit small) to grab with mole grips. Or use a dremel to cut a slot then an impact screwdriver to shock them loose.

Thinking about this there definitely was a thread where I think I had drilled the centre mass out like the OP suggested in first post..... let me dig some later when I get home. I had this same issue with stuck bolts.

EDIT- read this thread: https://www.500eboard.co/forums/ind...-replacing-m119-distributor-caps-rotors.1628/
 
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You have the radiator out? Isn’t there enough room to drill the head off the bolt? A 4 or 5mm sharp drill should do it.
 
Thanks for all the response. Four out of Six screws are free. The 2 screws remaining are of course at 5o'clock and hard to get at.
I'm looking at a spare rotor out of the car and it looks like theres a punch-out circle but not positive. I don't wanna drill it and kill it
kill-bill-vol-1-1015990-p.jpg
 
Finally got those suckers drilled out. I managed to beat-up one rotor pretty bad but It appears functional & said it won't be pressing charges against me. My plan is just to give the insulators and surrounding area a good cleaning. Hopefully the bogging will be gone
 
Aaaargh!¡!!!!!
That didn't fix it still the same problem
When I try to accelerate at about 40 it just makes this hollow sound out of the throttle body it seems like and then just bogs down wont go over like 45 mph
 
+1... how old cars caps / rotors / insulators? Issues with those items will cause misfiring.

If there's just a power loss, or lack of acceleration, how old are the fuel pumps?
 
Replaced fuel pump and filter caps rotors are less than 5000 miles. I cleaned insulators that usually buys people some time but this was no change at all,Its just so strange the bellowing hollow sound with it not "kicking in" Also replaced throttle body boot and radiator last year
 
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Will the engine pull at full throttle to redline? How about during warmup (say, 60C) vs fully warmed up (80-90C)? Is the problem intermittent or does it happen all the time?
 
I removed caps, rotors and rotor brackets (and insulator disc) on an M119 today. Basically you just have to use a 3mm Allen key, short end, NON-ball, to break the bolts loose. And a 5mm Allen key on the center bolt for the bracket. No sweat.

Once you break the bolts loose, you can move to the "ball" end of the Allen key and get it out the rest of the way.

Just make sure the end of the Allen key is tightly inserted into the rotor bolts. A good quality 3mm Allen key will do the trick nicely -- this is with the "stock" MB rotor.

A lot of people have asked what the "schmutz" is on the back-side of the insulator disc. It's just very fine misted motor oil and dirt that gets through the cam seals over time. Remember that the cams are rotating millions of times, so there is plenty of opportunity for oil and moisture to work its way past the cam seal behind the insulator disc.

Cheers,
Gerry
 
gerryvz said:
A lot of people have asked what the "schmutz" is on the back-side of the insulator disc. It's just very fine misted motor oil and dirt that gets through the cam seals over time. ...
Click to expand...
I've never fully agreed with this theory. It may be correct, but engine oil tends to be a darker brown, and the liquid on the back of the insulators is generally clear or light colored. And, I've seen liquid on the back of the insulators when there is *zero* sign of any leakage from the seals. I can't wrap my head around the aluminum area being bone dry, if the seals were leaking oil.

Moondust has been one of the more plausible theories...

:grouphug:
 
Fluid on the insulators is a sure sign your OVP is in dire need of replacement
 
OK so car starts up fine and I drove it at night with no traffic and eased it up to 65-70mph without incident. Then in just the time it took to wait at a stoplight serious bog down upon acceleration.I will check the OVP and switch it out to see if that corrects anything.

I have new problems as well. I think the lower harness has gone bad as the oil temp light is now constantly lit and the wire insulation is flaking off.Also the on-board blinker code reader is not functioning. There's a 92 400E ECM on this car. would that cause any maladies?
 
Remember that Gerry is yanking your chain; there is no OVP on the LH M119 cars. No, the 1992 LH module should cause these problems, but if you have a different/spare LH module, swap it out for grins. The LH module is responsible for keeping the fuel pumps on. I assume you replaced both fuel pumps with new Bosch (unless your car is a very late build 1995 model, which would have a single pump of different design).

What codes are present? Also don't forget the built in, on-board blinker will ONLY show you codes from the DM, which will only be present if the CEL is on. You need to check for codes on other modules with a separate, hand-held blink code reader. If the CEL is off, it's normal to not get any blinks from the built-in LED.

:cel:
 
I didn't yank anyone's chain -- JC did that with regard to the OVP. I was just completing the other part of the BW 124 forum "automatic diagnosis tri-fecta" with regard to the wiring harness ("eco-junk").
 
gerryvz said:
I didn't yank anyone's chain -- JC did that with regard to the OVP. I was just completing the other part of the BW 124 forum "automatic diagnosis tri-fecta" with regard to the wiring harness ("eco-junk").
Click to expand...

Correct this was a double chain yank. A: because the first instruction to nearly all w124 ailments on BW124 is to replace the OVP. B: V8 124s dont have an OVP as we know (Base module) yet in BW124 people with V8s are told to "replace OVP! :very_drunk:
 
JC220 said:
Correct this was a double chain yank. A: because the first instruction to nearly all w124 ailments on BW124 is to replace the OVP. B: V8 124s dont have an OVP as we know (Base module) yet in BW124 people with V8s are told to "replace OVP! :very_drunk:
Click to expand...
You have achieved the very rare “double-yoink”. Congratulations !!

:chainyank: :chainyank:
 
All these acronyms make my noggin somersault . Do you think my WOT LH is NFG? It's an 014 545 15 32 with a build date of 92M03. The original on there now is 021 545 70 32 build date,strangely 96M09. A replacement done by the PO or WTF a refugee from some DOA POS W210?
 
SirTweakAlot said:
All these acronyms make my noggin somersault . Do you think my WOT LH is NFG? It's an 014 545 15 32 with a build date of 92M03.
Click to expand...
It's possible, but unlikely. When the engine is running (with the WOT module), does the fuel pump relay click rapidly? I'm not sure how else to test the modules.



SirTweakAlot said:
The original on there now is 021 545 70 32 build date,strangely 96M09. A replacement done by the PO or WTF a refugee from some DOA POS W210?
Click to expand...
That is the late/updated module with extended adaptation range to cure the "DTC 19" issue which affects soem cars. No W210 used LH injection.
 
The driveability is improving but still bogging if I punch it. I have anew problem I think the heater valve isn't working no hot air coming out and the coolant needs to be bled and it's not blowing hot so I doubt that's working. .any other methods to burp coolant or do I need to fix valve first?
 
SirTweakAlot said:
I have anew problem I think the heater valve isn't working no hot air coming out and the coolant needs to be bled and it's not blowing hot so I doubt that's working. .any other methods to burp coolant or do I need to fix valve first?
Click to expand...
When there is a fault with the heater valve, it defaults to full heat all the time. If you aren't getting any heat... sounds more like an electrical issue, unless there is an air pocket in the system, which would normally result in very high coolant temps.

The only "burp" procedure is to fill the block via the upper radiator hose. If you can feel liquid in the upper radiator hose when you squeeze it, and the coolant level is above the seam on the plastic tank when cold, it's probably full. I'd start a separate thread on this if you continue to have trouble; you aren't going to get much help with the heater in a hostage screw thread.

:rugby:
 
I just brought home a long-forgotten ‘92 (11/91) previously well-maintained and running slightly-hit-in-front 92K mile 040/268 ASR 400E.
The LH WOT ECM (012 545 30 32) (91M11) from this car is available if you need it...
 
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