Summer Dyno Result after Motec M800 conversion with Pump Gas and Race Gas,

[NIIBE]

I am uploading attached Dyno sheets,
The Date was 7th Aug 2015, at Saitama Race Wars Bosch Roller type DYNO. Weather Report　38.6℃/26.4℃ !

Those are after my Motec M800 Conversion. by using Pump Gas and Race VP gas.
Comparing 8bit old days first generation engine management computers,
We can easy to set up for MBT and A/F ratio and ignition/injection timing independently and sequensially.

So Fuel and Ignition are Sequential Management by32bit Motec M800 with Twin A/F option and knock Module Option.
No multi spark option and CDI8 option yet.

Denso SARD 12hole 550cc injectors, Datsun Independent Pencil Coil and Fuel Rails and Coil plates are CNC billet made for M119.
Fuel regulator is SARD High flow type with 3.0kg/cm2 No vacuum.

You, serious Modders might have interested in Ignition timing management, the Pump Gas can advance up to a BTDC 23degree, and VP gas was 30degree,
current but more room for advance after setting. I believe that if the intake temp were more affordable, it would be 35degree around by using VP gas.
I am STILL searching MBT.

These are preriimaly running on study such extremely high temperature day,

2015/AUG/07　Power Check Graph@Race Wars Saitama Toda, Bosch Chasis Dyno.
Mercedes E500 / W124036/ M119 AMG 6.0/Motec M800 ECU/550cc Denso 12Hole Injector Sequential Controll/ Custum MadeDirect Ignition Sequential Controll/by using of Hi-Octan, Pump gas. Ignitioin timing BTDC 23 Degree.


293.3kw/5990rpm 568.3Nm/3660rpm 　Intake temp 69℃/998hpa

363.1kw/6130rpm　590.8nm/3100rpm　Intake temp 71℃/998hpa


Hope these information would be helpful for some of you.

Niibe
http://mercedesbenznetcom.blog81.fc2.com/
https://www.facebook.com/E500E

 

[Glen]

Impressive numbers!

 

[Rouven036]

Impressive numbers, in which he gear was measured?

 

[whipplem104]

Great numbers. So just the timing and some race gas is the difference? I am curious about the timing. I assume that the larger bore must require more timing but I have tuned several different 4 vlve engines and really not seen the need for so much advance.
What was the conversion factor for drivetrain loss?

 

[NIIBE]

4th gear drive.

 

[NIIBE]

>the larger bore must require more timing but I have tuned several different 4 vlve engines and really not seen the need for so much advance.

As you know, frame speed, tumble/swirl, Slant Squish etc are all effect Ignition timing.Our out dated M119 doesn't have such new weapon, so
We shall advance Ignition. I think BTDC 30 degree is not so much advance.
My Pro-stock V8 has BTDC 38 degree with 14:1 compression.

Regarding drive train loss, no modification but you might know that Low "Arrival time/ rapid G" to target RPM will cause high friction naturally.

And injection timing, SMD: Sauter Mean Diameter, accurate spark is very basic principle but effective.
No easy gain but every small, tiny steps makes progress for NA M119 motor.

 

[Taxi Driver]

Niibe, nice to hear from You, now most of us talk about *streetable* cars and motors. If one go *over the top* or two, is
iteresting but of little use, the experience and research, however is useful to us rebuilding and slightly tuning them.

How much is/was the advance with the E60 resistor on the EZL? I have that on mine and I think the advance could/should not
be too early due to the longer stroke as I think it does *work against it selves* at modest revs, I don't know BUT...Roger

 

[Christian_K]

So its 500 Crank horsepower from a 6L at those crazy outside and intake temps? What else is done to that 6L engine? Normally they have well above 600NM of Torque, Bernards Dyno shows the 6L have like around 610-620NM.
Please tell us more. And what is the difference to Run #1 ?

 

[superstar]

Badass! That’s almost 400WHP with a drive train loss! Congratulations for such a great results!

 

[Christian_K]

Badass! That’s almost 400WHP with a drive train loss! Congratulations for such a great results!

On the wheels? Where does it say this? I believe its at the crank with drivetrain loss included. That is usually how all dynos outside of the USA print their results.

 

[whipplem104]

I agree in comparison it is not a lot of timing. I thought it was just curious. I have just been tuning some older 4 vlv motors for the last few years and seemed to really stop seeing gains around low 20's in timing n/a and in the teens with boost. But smaller bores, much smaller. Audi aan and mercedes 3.2l m104 are the two I have spent the most time on. But similar in a few others. Very similar combustion chambers. Especially the m104.
Also what are you using for a trigger wheel. Did you swap in 60-2 tooth flywheel or are you still using the 4 tooth?
I was asking what drivetrain loss % was used to get engine hp on the dyno. I assume you are not making 500 wheel hp.
And wow did you pull out some highfalutin words. I mean I almost couldn't figure out what you were talking about so I assumed you were right.
Anyways I would love to know what all the specs are on the motor. I am impressed with the numbers and was not taking a dig in any ways with the questions. Also don't you wish you had better cam control on these. I see that dip in curve at the intake cam switch over point and it reminds me of how much I want a better variable cam adjuster and wow then on top of that exh. control would be even better.

 

[whipplem104]

I think that he was using 80% drivetrain loss from the near 500chp. That is why I asked what the drivetrain loss factor that was used from what was measured at the wheels.
5% can make a pretty big difference in total calculated chp. I also not familiar with the dyno used and how it compares typically to others. But non the less there are gains being made that are pretty darn good from tuning alone. I found the same thing on the m104 when I went standalone. I never put it on a dyno but it was more than obvious that it made a lot more power with timing and better fuel ratio. I did find that the factory switch points for cam advance and intake resonance were pretty much perfect. This is something I want to spend some time with on the dyno now that I have headers, cams etc.

 

[NIIBE]

Dear Taxi Driver,

Thank you for your reply and Long Time No see you.

>How much is/was the advance with the E60 resistor on the EZL? I have that on mine and I think the advance could/should not
> be too early due to the longer stroke as I think it does *work against it selves* at modest revs, I don't know BUT...Roger

I was using 015 EZL and #3 #2 PLUG. The base is BTDC20 and #3 is 3degree retard.
i think this would be good for low end torque feeling but not good for mid to high rpm power.

By the way I had Porsche928 in my younger days, and it might have BTDC 30 around 3000rpm and advance up to degree 38.

Niibe

 

[NIIBE]

Christian K,

Thank you for reply.
I am very glad to hear from Germany. I am also keen on Horse Jumping and my horses are all from German trained Holsteiner .


Yes too much to list please see our passed history in my blog. You can get more burning pressure @kg/cm2, if we could advance more
under MBT. Mercedes M119 Service manual had discribed this things.

By the way, some Japanese colleague had tried cam reglining by using 92 Cam and new cam with HLA.
but at that time we couldn't control rev limit and MBT.also injection timing. only EP-ROM mapping to "88,FF".
And the conclusion wan not so good. So I am trying to use DLC coated φ３５　Solid tappet and investing new profile by using 37.1 base circle.
I know that the cam has some offset center and there are physical logt restriction, oil holes and tappet diameter.
I think it would take much more time because they have VVT. we shall concern Intake and EX Valve distance by using 3D cad.

also preparing for idle valve control by using stand alone ECU for high duration cam's rough idle.

I believe that every such tiny modification would require free of restriction, so I rushed (but takes so long time) to ECU first.

 

[NIIBE]

whipplem104,

thank your for your reply. I think the Roller type dyno is not acurate.
High steep TORQUE curve at high rpm will be calicurated and cause much more Loss.
Dyno is just a measure ment but better than free internet surfing and e-bay junk searching.

So I am wondering to buy my own Engine test bench. It might be better than Roller Dyno and Dyno pack.
and dreaming my own Drag strip after my retirement.

 

[samiam44]

I think these dynos are very helpful in qualitative and not quantitative analysis. For example, you dyno it today @400 hp. Go adjust timing and get 440 hp. That is goodness. But I never expect the actual number of 440 to be accurate.

ITB help with big cams if you get there...

Michael