Very strange tire damage (one front tire)

[Cobra]

Hi

This sunday i had a flat tire, i tought it was a screw or a nail, as i was backing up with the wheel turned out so my friends could look for screws or nails they called me out to look at the tire, the inner shoulder was to the cord and beoynd, it was totally gone!

Fortunatelly i was able to borrow two wheels from my fríend Roger so i could get home.

I tought something may have run loose and was shaving the tire.

Today i went down to my local mecanic and eleveted the car for inspection from underneath, no signs what so ever on any
contact at all with anything in the wheelwell or nearby, not the lower support arm, not the swaybar, no nothing.

There are absolutely no play what so ever in any bushings or tie rod ends or wheelbearing, every thing is Mercedes tight.

We measured the distance between the tires on the frontside and the backside of the front tires to determine if there was a exessive toe out or toe in, but this very unscientific way did not gave any answer.

The size of the tires are 255" / 35x 19", the rims are Brabus 19" x 9,5" with 10 mm spacer at front and the brand of the tires is Nokian Z line, this is at least the third set of Nokians a have used and i have not had any problems at all before, i have orderd two new Nokians
to be delivered at friday.

Tomorrow i am going to try to get a wheel aligment but i do not think it is out by much if at all.

Does anyone have a clue?

The left front tire is totally alright with a mild wear pattern as expected.

Could it be a factory defect tire?

I will take the protocol from the wheelalignment and send to Nokia if there are no obvius errors in the alignements.

BR
Totte

 

[Glen]

Re: Very strange tire damage

Looks like an alignment issue to me. A combination of toe-out and negative camber.

 

[Cobra]

Re: Very strange tire damage

Hi

Yes, that was my first tought to, but the car was passing the Swedish car inspection just about 2500 kilometers ago, and the inspector, me and my brother
was standing and looking on the car from underneath and there was no sign of tread worn.

We will get the answer from the alignment, i hope.

BR
Totte

 

[gsxr]

Re: Very strange tire damage

Excessive toe-out can shred the inner edge of tires... same for excess negative camber. But it would take a lot to cause that, and it's odd to only affect one side.

Make sure to get the before & after alignment numbers.

 

[maw1124]

Re: Very strange tire damage

Yeah, Nokia tires will not stand up to ANY out of spec alignment under the road force of these cars. Actually, nothing will. Klink's "chassis development" comment comes to mind. These heavy performance Benzes were chassis spec'd to perfection, just so tire wear points directly to the problem. If they don't track perfectly, the tires will be the first to show it. The Michelin Pilot Sport AS on my 55 learned me that lesson. IIRC, my guys had to put some camber adjustment kit on to fix it. I'd have to check my records to be sure, but subsequent rear sets have run out true, even if quickly (+500 tq to the rear wheels).

GL

maw

 

[gerryvz]

Re: Very strange tire damage

Using wider wheels will totally do this. I had the same problem on my E500 with the staggered AMG Mono II setup (19") until I got the RDMTek rear LCAs with the modified setup (did a group buy some years back). Everything would be slightly out of alignment.

There are a few different solutions that have been discussed here on the forum, including aftermarket camber arms. GSXR has some good experience with several types of these. I bought some many years ago but never installed them, as they can have some side effects. The modified factory rear LCAs were the most elegant solution.

 

[gsxr]

Re: Very strange tire damage

Gerry, this was on the front end, not the rear... and only one tire. If it was in the rear, I agree it was likely due to fat wheels without camber correction.

 

[gerryvz]

Very strange tire damage

Aah, sorry for the mis-read of the location of the wheel. I agree that if on the front it’s a bad alignment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[roadster27]

Check your wheel bearings and the idler arm bushing. I have had the same problem on my e320.

 

[Jimbo]

Was there a computer print out of your previous alignment? Many new machines will give you a before and after snap-shot of what's going on. What did the numbers look like compared to the other side?

The tech surely got that corner incorrect by the looks of that poor tire.

 

[lowman]

like mentioned above.Definetly a toe out/massive negative camber issue
Have you checked the idler arm bushing AND the draglink?the drag link kan only be checked by squeezing the balljoints together,,,it will not be prominent when doing the 3 o clock 9 o clock wiggle on the wheels.Play in the The idler arm bushing will only be prominent when checking for play on the right hand side front wheel..doing the 3/9 o clock wiggle

 

[Efraim]

Hi Cobra,
Your said that this was the third set of Nokians. How many of them is with current rim/spacer combination? What is the ET of the rims?

 

[Kyiv]

draglink?the drag link kan only be checked by squeezing the balljoints together

Could you please explain, in layman terms, how does one test the drag link, from underneath with both front wheels off the ground? What exactly does one look for? Thanks

 

[gerryvz]

Could you please explain, in layman terms, how does one test the drag link, from underneath with both front wheels off the ground? What exactly does one look for? Thanks

Remember, that the drag (center) link is a really important part of the car's steering. It's definitely a "wear" part that needs to be replaced from time to time.

To answer your question, there are several things you need to look for:

1. Examine the ball joints at the ends of the drag link, to ensure that the boots are not torn and/or the joints are visually intact and not compromised
2. With the car on the ground, have someone get in the car and move the steering wheel back and forth. Look under the car with a flashlight at the drag link while the person is moving the steering wheel, to make sure the drag link is not moving up and down when the steering wheel is turned. Listen for clunk or other metallic sounds coming from the drag link. One key visual cue about the drag link being worn -- if you see the Pitman arm turn when your helper slowly turns the steering wheel, but the wheels don't turn, then there is likely an issue with the drag link/tie rod ends (steering linkage).
3. With the car in the air, shake the drag link vigorously with your hands up and down, and back and forth, to ensure there is not excessive play, motion, rattling or other movement with the drag link. If you find movement, then it's probably bad.
4. If you are noticing vibrations through the steering wheel, or wandering when the car is going straight down the road, then there is a good chance that your drag link could be bad (steering/vibration could also be the steering shock, which is cheap and easy to replace).

After replacing your drag link, you will need to get your car aligned. I recommend, if you are going to do this job (or have it done), that you also carefully examine the tie rods, all ball joints, the idler arm bushings, and the steering shock. If one of these components is worn, then it's pretty likely most all of them will be worn, and it's fairly easy to do this job and replace all of them together.

Your front end will feel like a new car after you do this, as well.

If you are interested, there is more information in a HOW-TO. This can be (with the exception of the alignment) a DIY job.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[lowman]

Could you please explain, in layman terms, how does one test the drag link, from underneath with both front wheels off the ground? What exactly does one look for? Thanks

Hey there
What i mean ..is that it is not always possible to do the typical "9 and 3 o clock wiggling of the wheels..to check for play in the draglink.You would need a "Slipjoint plier."...like the bigger ones..not the straight plier type..but the one that has an angle to it...and you will have to press the balljoint on the draglink "together"..pushing the ball into the socket casting on the draglink...so see if there is any excessive play...

 

[NCCoder]

I know I'm a couple months behind, but I wonder if it's the very low profile combined with the Ackerman angle.
I can see driving "briskly" in town causing such a situation as the steering angles used on right hand turns are generally much greater than in left hand turns.
For those not familiar, Ackerman steering will generate a larger turn angle on the inside tire compared to the outside tire for a given steering wheel input.
Many believe negative camber will cause this kind of damage, but camber wear will be much more gradual (for "sane" angles, say less than 4 degrees) than toe which your tire exhibits.
So, unless you've had a serious pull and have been compensating by holding the wheel or you have serious road crown issues, Ackerman is the only thing I can think of that will cause the right front tire to wear this bad compared to the left.
Of course, this particular scenario only applies to LHD areas.