What can I remove?

[Aimee Michaels]

I have a 1990 S500; M119 engine. It's pretty badly broken and some stuff is disconnected but the engine runs okay as near as I can tell. I want to swap it and the transmission to an SL. I'd like to know what I can disconnect without killing the engine. I guess I could just start pulling plugs and see if it quits but I'd rather have a clue what I can do without and what's essential to reconnect. Anyone willing to take a guess at the minimum I need or that I can get away without? (I don't need to pass emissions or anything; my state gives "antiques" a pass on most of that.)

 

[gsxr]

There was never a 1990 S500 produced. Can you please confirm the exact model year and model number?

 

[Aimee Michaels]

Right. 1992, built 7/91.

 

[gsxr]

Assuming 1992 500SEL (not S500)... what year/model SL do you want to swap this into? The 140 chassis uses a different oil pan/pickup than the 129 chassis, they are not plug & play.

Not sure I understand the question "what I can disconnect without killing the engine."

Although the 1992 500SEL engine may run ok, if doing an engine swap, it should at a minimum have all the timing chain guide rails inspected / replaced, and get a full re-seal while the engine is out. This has been discussed in detail in several old threads on the forum.

 

[Aimee Michaels]

Okay. Thanks for the advice about what to fix. I want it for an R107. I know it won't fit with the oil pan. I'd like to have a good guess what I can leave disconnected and the engine (at least) will still run.

 

[gsxr]

Really depends if you are planning to use aftermarket engine management like Megasquirt. If you plan to use the factory engine management you'll need all the modules and wiring harnesses. Still not clear why you want to disconnect things - the engine needs things connected to run, and everything connected properly to run properly. Either way (aftermarket or factory) it will not be easy to get an M119 installed and running in the R107.

You might want to look at roncallo's M120 swap into the R107 (click here). Although it's a V12, almost all the same information will apply to the V8.

 

[Aimee Michaels]

Thank you.
I've read about the MegaSquirt and the M120 swap. Very interesting.
Yes, I agree that it's not the most practical concept and a total chore, but I've GOT an R107 and an M119. I guess I just feel like it.
I saw a "ChumpCar" with the factory wiring harness all over the place, and only 2 or 3 connectors plugged in, and I'm pretty sure they weren't for "12-way powered, heated front seats, with 3 setting memory functions" as I've read are just one of the many electric "features" on the 500.
Nothing electric, on my 500SEL (I think it is; regardless of the S500 badge on the trunk lid.), except the engine, seems to work. That's fine with me, but I'd like to know what parts I have to transfer over and reconnect when I get the engine out and am struggling to get it to run in the other car.
Any assumptions, guesses, or actual knowledge would be welcome.

 

[gsxr]

Oversimplifying here, but you need to get all the engine-related sensors/modules/etc connected. Upper engine harness, lower engine harness, and engine-related modules (LH, EZL, E-GAS, BM/GM). All the engine sensors are needed (rear crank, cam, knock, temperature) except the front crank sensor which is only for diagnostics. Need the ignition coils & harness too.

I think it will work without the ASR module, and you don't need the DM (diagnostic module) or body-related items (HVAC, seats, steering, etc). It's quite a bit to transfer. If space is limited in the R107 using the smaller CAN box from a W124/M119 (400E) may help. The 140 CAN box is larger for additional stuff you won't need on the R107.

 

[Aimee Michaels]

Okay. Great. Thanks. I'll try to find those and unplug other stuff, just to see if it will still run, before I take it out. It's a start.

 

[nic520]

It‘s a long story and I am not in the position to explain, but: keep in mind that the „engine running“ at idle does not include the „engine running under load“ or otherwise properly.
The absence of any electrical connector besides air-pump and aircondition compressor will harm the proper function. All timing sensors are needed for the engine management as well as the temperature sensors. Ignition and injection cannot spare any connectors.

 

[Aimee Michaels]

Thank you. All advice and information is welcome. I'm hoping there will be some way to have the engine run sort of like it's 1966. I'm not going for perfect; just powerful.

 

[JC220]

What @nic520 said, the m119 was way ahead of its time and is a fuel injected V8 with complex systems and multiple computers controlling it.

It is not some old carburettor V8 that will run with little wiring.

What you are proposing is a massive undertaking requiring countless hours and skill / understanding of automotive wiring. Having carried out a similar engine swap to different chassis myself I know what is involved.

 

[Aimee Michaels]

Okay; thanks. The thing is that I have a car with no engine and an engine that runs in a broken car. (A tree fell on it.) So, let's say I want to take the engine out of the car and make it run on its' own - what do I need to take with it and what can I do without? I can start disconnecting wires and see if it still runs, before I pull it out, but it would be nice to get a clue from someone who knows. What's the minimum the M119 needs to run? If I can get that it will be a place to start.

 

[gsxr]

As mentioned above, you need all the engine-related computer modules, and all wiring harnesses between the modules and engine. You can't choose to leave any of that out for convenience, or it will not run properly. This is totally possible and not super difficult, but it will take a HUGE amount of time as @JC220 stated above. And lots of attention to detail. Take exhaustive photos of everything before you start dismantling the squished car. And don't cut any wires either - should not be necessary.

 

[744Brillantsilber]

Just my personal opinion:
Sell the M119 and other parts from the W140 and buy a M117 instead.
Good R107s are getting too rare and valuable to hack up. And don't think about a M119 going into the R107 without bodywork in the engine bay and likely problems with the steering too.
Whatever you decide to do, good luck and success with your project!

 

[Aimee Michaels]

Thanks. Yes, I know. I don't need this to make sense. It's just for fun. (I hear some of you saying; "That's not my idea of fun.")
Unfortunately, the R107 is hacked up already. It came from 1/2 of 2 storage units and a lot of its' parts were in the other one. And it's a 380. The original engine is; well, "limited" shall we say? I'm not interested in restoring THAT. And I don't even have the whole engine. (Anyone interested in parts? I have a mix of 117 and 116.) And I LIKE the M119.
WARNINGS NOTED; I'm going to pull the M119.
Anyone's knowledge, opinions, or guesses are welcome if it might help make it run AT ALL (if not properly).

 

[gsxr]

If you extract all the electrical stuff as explained previously, it should run properly. This assumes the 500SEL was running & driving normally before it got treed, has a good ETA, etc etc.

 

[Aimee Michaels]

Sure. Thanks. Just getting the engine out, I'm going to count as a win.