what's needed for a good 722.6 build?

[samiam44]

I've read threads here.

Seems like I need a 1996-97 S-class 722.6 with a M119 bolt pattern. But I hear comments on how cores are cheap and it's not worth utilizing the early parts.

So I'm getting a E550, 2009 transmission + a M119- front tranmission case?


Michael

 

[jhodg5ck]

what cha tryin to do over there dude? .6 for the 036?

 

[samiam44]

a .6 for the 036 6.0

How's the ITB doing?

Just thinking... nothing done yet! I'm a big thinker and planner... have harder problems with funding and time.

 

[gsxr]

Michael, where would you source the M119 front tranmission case for 722.6? They are NLA new, and used ones tend to come attached to transmissions.

 

[Glen]

I have an M119 .6 bell housing that I bought years ago. Not really looking to sell but everything has a price.

 

[Stevester 500E]

Glen,
I remember that same pipe dream.
I have two paper weight bell housings.

I have an M119 .6 bell housing that I bought years ago. Not really looking to sell but everything has a price.

 

[SG-Motorsports]

I've read threads here.

Seems like I need a 1996-97 S-class 722.6 with a M119 bolt pattern. But I hear comments on how cores are cheap and it's not worth utilizing the early parts.

So I'm getting a E550, 2009 transmission + a M119- front tranmission case?


Michael

You won't want a transmission from a 2009 E550, that would be a 722.9 7-speed.

 

[samiam44]

opps- ok, something a bit earlier. Late production. trying to get all the improved parts.


M

 

[alabbasi]

I've read threads here.

Seems like I need a 1996-97 S-class 722.6 with a M119 bolt pattern. But I hear comments on how cores are cheap and it's not worth utilizing the early parts.

So I'm getting a E550, 2009 transmission + a M119- front tranmission case?


Michael

You'll need a 722.6 from a car that does not have the electronic shifter. Anything from a V8 w140 or an r129 will work.

 

[gsxr]

You'll need a 722.6 from a car that does not have the electronic shifter. Anything from a V8 w140 or an r129 will work.

Another option is the 1-year-only special, 1997 E420 (M119), 210.072 chassis with 722.625 tranny. But, that will be an "early" unit.

I wonder if a 1999 S500 trans would be the latest available for M119 that would maybe have some of the upgrades?

Couldn't an electronic shifter be retrofitted for an early-2000's 722.6 box? I mean, the rest of the conversion is pretty major stuff, I'd think the shifter would be one of the smaller headaches.

For the record, I've pretty much given up on the .6 conversion into an E500E due to limited ROI. It helps with top speed, fuel economy, and to a small extent off-the-line acceleration... but since we can't legally cruise at 120mph on US roads, nor explore Vmax, I'm content with the 722.3 in my rides. (I also have a couple W210 E60's with the factory 722.6 setup so I know exactly what the best-case end result would be like.)

 

[jhodg5ck]

Ah, Ok...the .9 reference through me off..;-)


+1 on Dave-o's reco...get a LATE R129 or W140 .6...IIRC, the 210 gear selector module is the easiet to adapt to a 124..or was it a 170...WhippleM104 knows and you'll need his controller anyway so he can fill you in on Details..

Either way, yea...I'm with ya, hella nice conversion. Esp for rolling the highway. I LOVES me some effective 2.2X in top gear.

Oh, I'd also go ahead and order up some blue top AMG solenoids for the valve body...you'll be able to get some Damn Quick, Firm shifts w/ that all dialed in..

Jono

 

[Rouven036]

The best suitable selector lever modules are from W202 family (includes 208+170) or R129. Since deck height is similar to the ones on the W124. 210 unit is about 15mm taller. The old gear boxes can be retrofitted with the new type in- and output shafts (needle bearing vs slide bearing in the older types). Lately also the electronic shifter (tiptronic +/- left to right) can be used with ole fejer unit. Further updates can be done like the AMG blue top valves as Jono stated..
On my W123 the belt squirks in S Mode like in some of the newer AMG's with 7 speed and wet clutch when upshifting on full song even the belt is tied up firmly. Due to the rapid rpm change of the engine. Need a freewheel pulley for the alternator like in those newer AMG's...

 

[whipplem104]

You want the bellhousing and torque converter of course. Then everything else from late low mileage 5.0l v8 with a 722.6. Choose just about anything. You could also just get a dodge transmission and rob all the parts from the inside. Cases are different. Depends on what is cheap in your area. There is nothing beneficial to an AMG trans. THey are the same as a standard v8. There is no need to upgrade from stock except a valve body. Depends on how much power you are making on the best course of action on that and tuning abilities. I sell 2 different valve bodies for these. One for those that are not really capable of tuning like a factory equipped Mercedes. And then one for full tuning capabilites.
We can take a stock transmission to excess of a 1000whp/tq. Input/output shaft failures before the clutches wear out.

 

[atg]

You want the bellhousing and torque converter of course. Then everything else from late low mileage 5.0l v8 with a 722.6. Choose just about anything. You could also just get a dodge transmission and rob all the parts from the inside. Cases are different. Depends on what is cheap in your area. There is nothing beneficial to an AMG trans. THey are the same as a standard v8. There is no need to upgrade from stock except a valve body. Depends on how much power you are making on the best course of action on that and tuning abilities. I sell 2 different valve bodies for these. One for those that are not really capable of tuning like a factory equipped Mercedes. And then one for full tuning capabilites.
We can take a stock transmission to excess of a 1000whp/tq. Input/output shaft failures before the clutches wear out.

Still in 722.3 mode for now but thinking the whole compound turbo setup would benefit from tuned shift points using boost/ tps yada yada. Trying to find a good reason to do the swap apart from overdrive. Because I dont drive on the freeway enough to care about that. Anyway just wondering whether you tune the shift points using real time boost data on a turbo car?

Sorry for the hijack.

 

[500AMM]

Nice to see new life blew into the topic. I was really enthusiastic about this last time it was up, but the finances & time wasn't on my side. However, it's still interesting, but I'm not out for the 5th overdrive in the 722.6 giving north of 300kmh top speed, but a tighter shifting. That would lead to a diff. change with a taller ratio.

Next may be the drive shaft snapping issue for my supercharged 6.0. Maybe a complete Black Series diff & shafts replacement is the best way to go, which requires subframe mods. The first bites the next...

 

[gsxr]

Next may be the drive shaft snapping issue for my supercharged 6.0. Maybe a complete Black Series diff & shafts replacement is the best way to go, which requires subframe mods. The first bites the next...

Arnt, are you breaking propeller shafts between the transmission and differential, or breaking axle shafts between the differential and wheels? Where exactly is the failure occurring? I find it very odd you are breaking anything with street tires, which normally wouldn't have enough grip to break non-fatigued parts.

 

[whipplem104]

The new tcm is a torque based model. So we actually generate a torque map of the engine. I just use TPS/RPM for this. You can use MAP instead if you wanted but honestly it is not necessary. As boost builds RPM increases so you will see a pretty solid relationship given any TPS point.
As far as reasons to do a .6 besides overdrive. That is easy. Strength, Shift characteristics, lock up converter, any desired upshift/downshift points you want, manual mode, oh and overdrive. Overdrive and gear ratios spread are pretty great. You can run reasonable differential gears and still have great acceleration and cruise rpms. Gear sets are not just for top speed but putting you in the sweet spot of your cars setup.

 

[atg]

Arnt, are you breaking propeller shafts between the transmission and differential, or breaking axle shafts between the differential and wheels? Where exactly is the failure occurring? I find it very odd you are breaking anything with street tires, which normally wouldn't have enough grip to break non-fatigued parts.

I think this is a function of what gear you are in. the 3-4 shift could be pretty brutal with huge torque loads but no wheelspin, even on street rubber. So it depends how much torque is available and how hard it shifts.

 

[atg]

Nice to see new life blew into the topic. I was really enthusiastic about this last time it was up, but the finances & time wasn't on my side. However, it's still interesting, but I'm not out for the 5th overdrive in the 722.6 giving north of 300kmh top speed, but a tighter shifting. That would lead to a diff. change with a taller ratio.

Next may be the drive shaft snapping issue for my supercharged 6.0. Maybe a complete Black Series diff & shafts replacement is the best way to go, which requires subframe mods. The first bites the next...

OK what on earth are "black series" diff and shafts? I was thinking BMW 750 stuff or two R129 shafts welded together with the bigger knuckles on each end. I need to do some more research on it, particularly at the hub end.

 

[whipplem104]

I have them on my car. The CLK63 BS [Black Series] wheel hub fits in the w124 wheel bearing. I have C63 axles and a 215mm differential. Lots of custom work but not to bad to make it fit. I went with all off the shelf parts so I did not have to wait for custom stuff or spend for it. I did have to widen the rear track a tiny bit but that is ok with me. Just 1/4" or so. Longer control arms all the way around. I did a whole write up on this years ago on Peachparts.

As far as breaking driveshafts that is 1 of two problems. They are not strong enough or the rear end ratio is to low. Think of torque as a result of resistance. You could have the potential of high torque but not actually be able to make it because resistance is low. Gears do this for you. If you put 2.2 gears in you will have much higher torque on the driveshaft than you will with 3.2 gears. This is a bit of an oversimplification but you get the idea.

You do see a spike on shifts but by the time you are in 3rd gear and going into 4th you have much lower torque at the drivehsaft and a closer ratio gap. So change is small and multiplication goes to 1. You exhibit much higher torque in 1st gear at the driveshaft and have a much wider ratio spread to 2nd gear. But you are right the tires could break loose but that is because you exhibited more power to the tires than they could hold to the pavement. If you had the power in 3rd going into 4th you could do the same but it would require the same power to the tires. Which you no longer have because you lost torque multiplication. We fun.

 

[atg]

I have them on my car. The CLK63 BS [Black Series] wheel hub fits in the w124 wheel bearing. I have C63 axles and a 215mm differential. Lots of custom work but not to bad to make it fit. I went with all off the shelf parts so I did not have to wait for custom stuff or spend for it. I did have to widen the rear track a tiny bit but that is ok with me. Just 1/4" or so. Longer control arms all the way around. I did a whole write up on this years ago on Peachparts.

As far as breaking driveshafts that is 1 of two problems. They are not strong enough or the rear end ratio is to low. Think of torque as a result of resistance. You could have the potential of high torque but not actually be able to make it because resistance is low. Gears do this for you. If you put 2.2 gears in you will have much higher torque on the driveshaft than you will with 3.2 gears. This is a bit of an oversimplification but you get the idea.

You do see a spike on shifts but by the time you are in 3rd gear and going into 4th you have much lower torque at the drivehsaft and a closer ratio gap. So change is small and multiplication goes to 1. You exhibit much higher torque in 1st gear at the driveshaft and have a much wider ratio spread to 2nd gear. But you are right the tires could break loose but that is because you exhibited more power to the tires than they could hold to the pavement. If you had the power in 3rd going into 4th you could do the same but it would require the same power to the tires. Which you no longer have because you lost torque multiplication. We fun.

Ok I found a few posts on peach. Not a detailed writeup but some stuff.

I am not clear on whether the c63 shafts will bolt up to the 210 diff. Right now my plan is a 1991 500sl 2.65 diff and driveline with the 8 bolt guibos. Ideally c63 shafts could simply be lengthened or shortened to fit and substitute the c63 hubs for the 124 hubs. Maybe I will just call cvj reman and ask what the specs are. Im sure they can make something that will work.

Still planning to blow up the 722.3 before going down the 722.6 road. A 6 may be required to get acceptable shift quality but I will give the blue ufo a try first.

Are people machining delrin subframe bushings or just pouring them full of polyurethane somehow? Diff mounts will likely need similar treatment.

Getting close to having a garage again. Will be fun to wrench on stuff again after a couple years. Aq-1 etc to follow.

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