WOT, Water Injection and Nitrous Oxide

[baviking1]

I've been running the WOT enrichment module in my e420 for around 60 days now; a sizeable kick-ina-butt improvement for sure. I'm wondering if the below interesting mod would add an additional 15-20 ponies as-claimed w/o messing up the cam solenoids/timing/modules etc? I have always thought that cooler running = more HP (and that's before we factor in the methanol). Wouldnt an additional 15-20HP (in addition to those gained w/WOT enrichment) put the 4.2 in the 5.0 ballpark with less weight?.....

How to Boost Engine Power with Water-Methanol Injection

Let it Snow - The Benefits of Snow Performance Water-Methanol Injection

By Dave Young, Photography by Randy Bolig

Mopar Muscle, February 03, 2014



Read more: http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/..._with_water_methanol_injection/#ixzz2uAoCdRxZ​

 

[baviking1]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

Better link specific to MB... http://www.snowperformance.net/mercedes-benz-gasoline-all-other-models

 

[gsxr]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

Squirting water and/or methanol into a naturally-aspirated M119 won't gain any power... sorry. That stuff is more helpful with forced induction.

 

[Glen]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

Squirting water and/or methanol into a naturally-aspirated M119 won't gain any power... sorry. That stuff is more helpful with forced induction.

Might help keep detonation at bay on a hot day and will definitely decarbon the piston crowns and possibly the valves.

 

[gsxr]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

Correct - it should help avoid detonation. However that won't increase power beyond factory rating, it just helps avoid power loss due to heat / low-octane fuel / etc.

 

[baviking1]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

Correct - it should help avoid detonation. However that won't increase power beyond factory rating, it just helps avoid power loss due to heat / low-octane fuel / etc.

Interesting, a manufacturer making a bogus claim (imagine that)?? I had water injection in some of my old muscle cars; worked wonders for those old 12:1 comp motors and pump gas. Still a little confused though dave; what am I missing here in the statement "This analysis indicates that nitromethane generates about 2.3 times the power of gasoline when combined with a given amount of oxygen."?

From wikipedia

As an engine fuel[edit]

Nitromethane is used as a fuel in motor racing, particularly drag racing, as well as for rockets and radio-controlled models (such as cars, planes and helicopters) and is commonly referred to in this context as "nitro." The oxygen content of nitromethane enables it to burn with much less atmospheric oxygen.
4CH[SUB]3[/SUB]NO[SUB]2[/SUB] + 3O[SUB]2[/SUB] → 4CO[SUB]2[/SUB] + 6H[SUB]2[/SUB]O + 2N[SUB]2[/SUB]The amount of air required to burn 1 kg (2.2 lb) of gasoline is 14.7 kg (32 lb), but only 1.7 kg (3.7 lb) of air is required for 1 kg of nitromethane. Since an engine's cylinder can only contain a limited amount of air on each stroke, 8.7 times more nitromethane than gasoline can be burned in one stroke. Nitromethane, however, has a lower energy density: Gasoline provides about 42–44 MJ/kg whereas nitromethane provides only 11.3 MJ/kg.

This analysis indicates that nitromethane generates about 2.3 times the power of gasoline when combined with a given amount of oxygen.

 

[Maui]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

I wish I could find one of those Bergwerks NOS kits laying around somewhere.

 

[gerryvz]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

You're a couple of years too late. Steve of BergWerks made a redux production run of a few kits for folks who ordered them (I think J-Sauce was one) after they'd been out of production for some time. I knew that it was only a matter of time before more folks would want them. You can't get better bang for the buck in terms of performance, that's for sure. My best time at PIR was a 12.89 second quarter mile at around 108 MPH. It was fast enough to beat anything there except a few hugely gussied up muscle cars and stuff that was trailered in for the night.

 

[gsxr]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

Still a little confused though dave; what am I missing here in the statement "This analysis indicates that nitromethane generates about 2.3 times the power of gasoline when combined with a given amount of oxygen."?

Nitromethane is very different than methanol. The water/methanol injector kits are not squirting nitro. Methanol is just a variant of alcohol. The primary advantage is intake air cooling via evaporation when sprayed into high-temp intake air tract of forced induction motors, where the turbo or supercharger has heated the air. I tried this on my 300D turbo, it did lower IAT's, but did not lower EGT's (which is what I wanted).

Nitromethane is a no-no for gasoline motors.

 

[gerryvz]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

My friend Dan Smith of Portland (Newberg, OR) installed a water injection system on one of his many 300SEL 6.3s, for drag racing purposes. It didn't do squat, so he took it off the car.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[baviking1]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

Nitromethane is very different than methanol. The water/methanol injector kits are not squirting nitro. Methanol is just a variant of alcohol. The primary advantage is intake air cooling via evaporation when sprayed into high-temp intake air tract of forced induction motors, where the turbo or supercharger has heated the air. I tried this on my 300D turbo, it did lower IAT's, but did not lower EGT's (which is what I wanted).

Nitromethane is a no-no for gasoline motors.

Thx, NOW I get it. I'm assuming a gas engine would go "bang" if you even introduced trace amounts of nitro?

BTW Snow still claims a HP increase in normally aspirated engines (in a very left-handed way; see below). I imagine in forced induction engines it would be VERY beneficial. BTW, was Bergwerks the only game in town on the NOS? Cant be too tough to adapt a universal kit I'd imagine; what made it unique besides being engineered as a bolt on specific MB application?

2. Can the Boost Cooler be applied to naturally aspirated and nitrous engines?

• Naturally aspirated/high compression engines:
Water/Methanol injection allows the use of pump fuel in all but the most extreme situations which effects tremendous cost savings as well as horsepower increases due to air density increase and higher timing advance potential.

• Engines using nitrous:
With nitrous, water/methanol injection allows the use of more timing advance even with large (250HP+) quantities. The cooling effect of the water/methanol inside the combustion chamber also makes for reduced peak combustion temperatures.

• Naturally aspirated/stock compression:
With naturally aspirated engines using less than 10:1 compression, water/methanol is used often in warm climates to get the intake temps lower. Benefits include: 10-15 HP increases from air density increases and full timing as well as more effective air/fuel ratios, increased gas mileage, and carbon free combustion chambers.

While power gains are typically less in stock compression naturally aspirated vehicles compared to high compression or forced induction engines, benefits can still be realized due to more timing advance, leaner air/fuel ratios, cleaner engine components, lower temperatures, and the use of the methanol in the injection fluid as a secondary fuel source.

 

[gsxr]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

The water/methanol injection makes sense on engines with very high compression ratios, i.e. late 60's musclecars designed to run on high-octane gas which is no longer available at the pump. Or, possibly with NOS usage as described above. With our M119 engines, the factory systems were quite good, and I would be surprised if you found any benefits compared to just using normal 91+ octane fuel. Methanol as a secondary fuel source is not a viable solution as you need to squirt a LOT of it to add power, and then you're constantly buying and adding methanol to the extra tank, etc.

The NOS kit is a different story. The BW kit is a modified off-the-shelf kit, engineered to work with the M119. You could attempt to duplicate it but there is risk involved, i.e. you could blow up your motor if you do something wrong.

We should probably move the methanol/NOS posts to a new thread, as it's off the LH module topic...

 

[baviking1]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

The water/methanol injection makes sense on engines with very high compression ratios, i.e. late 60's musclecars designed to run on high-octane gas which is no longer available at the pump. Or, possibly with NOS usage as described above. With our M119 engines, the factory systems were quite good, and I would be surprised if you found any benefits compared to just using normal 91+ octane fuel. Methanol as a secondary fuel source is not a viable solution as you need to squirt a LOT of it to add power, and then you're constantly buying and adding methanol to the extra tank, etc.

The NOS kit is a different story. The BW kit is a modified off-the-shelf kit, engineered to work with the M119. You could attempt to duplicate it but there is risk involved, i.e. you could blow up your motor if you do something wrong.

We should probably move the methanol/NOS posts to a new thread, as it's off the LH module topic...

You lost me on a universal NOS @ "you could blow up your motor". The LH module was quite an improvement though; really comes in handy when those Beemers try and weasel in on the freeway onramps.....

 

[gsxr]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

Just to clarify, the same applies to the BW NOS kit, if installed incorrectly, or used incorrectly. NOS in general has the risk of serious damage. If you don't have an RPM window switch you can break rings by engaging at too low an RPM, etc. Wet systems can puddle liquid in the manifold and blow the hood off the car, or the intake through the hood, etc... ask J-sauce about some stuff he's seen at the dragstrip. When used properly, it can be fun. I hope to have a kit installed later this year....

 

[gerryvz]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

There are two types of nitrous-oxide systems: wet systems, and dry systems.

Wet systems inject their own supply of additional fuel + nitrous-oxide gas into the engine, which allows you to directly control the ratio of fuel to gas to maintain an appropriate mixture for the situation. Usually wet systems utilise additional fuel injectors to provide the incremental fuel.

Dry systems (which is what the BergWerks system is) injects only nitrous-oxide gas into the car's intake system, relying on an 'overstimulation' of the stock fuel system to inject more fuel into the engine through the existing injectors. This can be very dangerous because your existing fuel system has to have the over-capacity to handle the nitrous (which our LH system does in the E500E pretty safely, up to the +100 HP range). If you inject nitrous with not enough fuel, then temperatures in the combustion chamber will get really hot really fast, and you can burn a hole in a piston quite easily/quickly.

This is why for BergWerks shots higher than +100 HP, you have to test each car's individual fuel pressure at high speed, to ensure that it generates enough pressure to inject additional fuel to handle say +125 or more HP. BergWerks never recommended more than +125 HP for the M119 -- they didn't believe the E500E's stock LH system could safely handle more than that.

The BergWerks system had 3-4 "safeguards" built-in so that the nitrous-oxide system would only activate/fire under certain conditions, to avoid any problems. All of this happened automatically as long as the system was installed correctly.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[baviking1]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

There are two types of nitrous-oxide systems: wet systems, and dry systems.

Wet systems inject their own supply of additional fuel + nitrous-oxide gas into the engine, which allows you to directly control the ratio of fuel to gas to maintain an appropriate mixture for the situation. Usually wet systems utilise additional fuel injectors to provide the incremental fuel.

Dry systems (which is what the BergWerks system is) injects only nitrous-oxide gas into the car's intake system, relying on an 'overstimulation' of the stock fuel system to inject more fuel into the engine through the existing injectors. This can be very dangerous because your existing fuel system has to have the over-capacity to handle the nitrous (which our LH system does in the E500E pretty safely, up to the +100 HP range). If you inject nitrous with not enough fuel, then temperatures in the combustion chamber will get really hot really fast, and you can burn a hole in a piston quite easily/quickly.

This is why for BergWerks shots higher than +100 HP, you have to test each car's individual fuel pressure at high speed, to ensure that it generates enough pressure to inject additional fuel to handle say +125 or more HP. BergWerks never recommended more than +125 HP for the M119 -- they didn't believe the E500E's stock LH system could safely handle more than that.

The BergWerks system had 3-4 "safeguards" built-in so that the nitrous-oxide system would only activate/fire under certain conditions, to avoid any problems. All of this happened automatically as long as the system was installed correctly.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Gerry

Great info. Guess it doesnt really matter though, since Bergwerks kits are unavailable anyway. I was just reading another old forum thread where a guy claimed to have run the fastest ever 1/4 mile time (12.794) with a bergwerks kit (think I saw dave there under another name too)......

 

[baviking1]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

Just to clarify, the same applies to the BW NOS kit, if installed incorrectly, or used incorrectly. NOS in general has the risk of serious damage. If you don't have an RPM window switch you can break rings by engaging at too low an RPM, etc. Wet systems can puddle liquid in the manifold and blow the hood off the car, or the intake through the hood, etc... ask J-sauce about some stuff he's seen at the dragstrip. When used properly, it can be fun. I hope to have a kit installed later this year....

Hoarding Bergwerks kits, are we? A sage & crafty devil....

 

[gerryvz]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

Great info. Guess it doesnt really matter though, since Bergwerks kits are unavailable anyway. I was just reading another old forum thread where a guy claimed to have run the fastest ever 1/4 mile time (12.794) with a bergwerks kit (think I saw dave there under another name too)......

Yes, I believe that was J-Sauce.

The BergWerks kit is based on an off-the-shelf NOS brand kit designed for the 5-liter (302 cubic-inch) Fox-body Ford Mustang, which has some additional pieces added that integrate it with the LH-based M119 as found in the W124, R129 and W140. None of it is rocket science to recreate, if you are fairly savvy with muscle-car kits and nitrous engineering. I am sure that someone with a bit of work could recreate a BergWerks equivalent kit fairly easily.

Honestly though, I think a six-liter overbore and perhaps a modern, custom injection system (a la Megasquirt or other) is the way to go in terms of versatility and just overall straightforward way to do things. That way you can control it with a laptop and tune things as needed. Overall I have never been a fan of forced induction (nitrous-oxide being a crude form of such), particularly in our cars because of the lack of room to integrate the hardware that is needed.

Having owned 6.3 and 6.9 liter "big block" Benz models, I am much more a fan of high displacement and the lack of compromises it has, as compared to the mechanical and thermal complexity of superchargers and turbochargers.

If I had my hands on a spare M119 engine, I'd probably install a modified 5.6-liter M117 crankshaft (possibly with a slight overbore?) to make a six-liter or thereabouts engine, and consider installing a modern engine management system while trying to maintain as stock an appearance as possible -- CAN integration could be an issue.

 

[baviking1]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

Yes, I believe that was J-Sauce.

The BergWerks kit is based on an off-the-shelf NOS brand kit designed for the 5-liter (302 cubic-inch) Fox-body Ford Mustang, which has some additional pieces added that integrate it with the LH-based M119 as found in the W124, R129 and W140. None of it is rocket science to recreate, if you are fairly savvy with muscle-car kits and nitrous engineering. I am sure that someone with a bit of work could recreate a BergWerks equivalent kit fairly easily.

Honestly though, I think a six-liter overbore and perhaps a modern, custom injection system (a la Megasquirt or other) is the way to go in terms of versatility and just overall straightforward way to do things. That way you can control it with a laptop and tune things as needed. Overall I have never been a fan of forced induction (nitrous-oxide being a crude form of such), particularly in our cars because of the lack of room to integrate the hardware that is needed.

Having owned 6.3 and 6.9 liter "big block" Benz models, I am much more a fan of high displacement and the lack of compromises it has, as compared to the mechanical and thermal complexity of superchargers and turbochargers.

If I had my hands on a spare M119 engine, I'd probably install a modified 5.6-liter M117 crankshaft (possibly with a slight overbore?) to make a six-liter or thereabouts engine, and consider installing a modern engine management system while trying to maintain as stock an appearance as possible -- CAN integration could be an issue.

That is a great point (i.e the space limitations). Cramming more metal under that crowded hood CANT be an easy proposition, and here in AZ I am always concerned about summer heat. There is nothing like the whine of a good turbine/blower under load tho (maybe that's why AMG is using TWO per car now)..

BTW I had a guy try and get frisky with me the other day w a brand new AMG V12 biturbo (WHY, I have no idea). I respectfully declined...

 

[gsxr]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

BTW I had a guy try and get frisky with me the other day w a brand new AMG V12 biturbo (WHY, I have no idea). I respectfully declined...

Just wait until you pick up your new E500.

 

[baviking1]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

Just wait until you pick up your new E500.

LOL!! I'm looking forward to it, but arent those 600's like 7.0L w twin turbos? Lord knows what kind of HP they make.....

 

[gsxr]

The twin-turbos are silly fast. But with your 500, you might get more of 'em trying to race you!

 

[baviking1]

The twin-turbos are silly fast. But with your 500, you might get more of 'em trying to race you!

HAHA! "Trying" is the operative word there; I'm a smooth & steady cruiser....

 

[Maui]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

Yes, I believe that was J-Sauce.

The BergWerks kit is based on an off-the-shelf NOS brand kit designed for the 5-liter (302 cubic-inch) Fox-body Ford Mustang, which has some additional pieces added that integrate it with the LH-based M119 as found in the W124, R129 and W140. None of it is rocket science to recreate, if you are fairly savvy with muscle-car kits and nitrous engineering. I am sure that someone with a bit of work could recreate a BergWerks equivalent kit fairly easily.

Honestly though, I think a six-liter overbore and perhaps a modern, custom injection system (a la Megasquirt or other) is the way to go in terms of versatility and just overall straightforward way to do things. That way you can control it with a laptop and tune things as needed. Overall I have never been a fan of forced induction (nitrous-oxide being a crude form of such), particularly in our cars because of the lack of room to integrate the hardware that is needed.

Having owned 6.3 and 6.9 liter "big block" Benz models, I am much more a fan of high displacement and the lack of compromises it has, as compared to the mechanical and thermal complexity of superchargers and turbochargers.

If I had my hands on a spare M119 engine, I'd probably install a modified 5.6-liter M117 crankshaft (possibly with a slight overbore?) to make a six-liter or thereabouts engine, and consider installing a modern engine management system while trying to maintain as stock an appearance as possible -- CAN integration could be an issue.

I did not know Bergwerks was based on the Ford 302, but it kind of makes sense. I have a lot Ford 302 EFI experience but no NOS experience. As the ECU mods, that would be a completely different animal. The Ford ECU's are relatively easy to modify and there are several aftermarket alternatives to either replace or modify the program. The Ford system is great because of it's simplicity and straight forward approach. You can simply install a Moates module into the ECU and use a binary editor to change any number of parameters. I was able to go to swap out maf's throttle bodies, and injectors in a matter of minutes. The software I was using allowed me to datalog while driving around. The datalog could be converted to an excel file, tweaked and converted back. It was great. Of course the late 1980's and early 1990's Fords had a single computer. I have not studied the 500E system enough to get my head around the different computer modules and I don't think anyone has created software to tweak things.

I really need to find some good sources for studying up on the 500E programming. I don't even know if it is a Speed density or a mass air system. I would sure think there is more power hiding in there somewhere.

 

[gerryvz]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

I did not know Bergwerks was based on the Ford 302, but it kind of makes sense. I have a lot Ford 302 EFI experience but no NOS experience. As the ECU mods, that would be a completely different animal. The Ford ECU's are relatively easy to modify and there are several aftermarket alternatives to either replace or modify the program. The Ford system is great because of it's simplicity and straight forward approach. You can simply install a Moates module into the ECU and use a binary editor to change any number of parameters. I was able to go to swap out maf's throttle bodies, and injectors in a matter of minutes. The software I was using allowed me to datalog while driving around. The datalog could be converted to an excel file, tweaked and converted back. It was great. Of course the late 1980's and early 1990's Fords had a single computer. I have not studied the 500E system enough to get my head around the different computer modules and I don't think anyone has created software to tweak things.

I really need to find some good sources for studying up on the 500E programming. I don't even know if it is a Speed density or a mass air system. I would sure think there is more power hiding in there somewhere.

Our E500Es are sort of in a performance Twilight Zone. Meaning that they are not choked up and lowest common denominator compromises like the 1980s cars were; and are modern enough to have first-gen CAN systems and offer the benefits of computerization; but yet don't have the tweak-ability and advanced diagnostics and such of cars from the 2000 period onward. So as E500E owners, the quest for major additional horsepower is elusive at best ... and always highly expensive.

Couple this with the fact that few folks buy MBs for the purposes of performance ... contrast with the more performance oriented images of Audi and BMW, and the aftermarket industries they support. Heck, even Mercedes-AMG didn't really start taking off until 2000 and later ... and now they've overdone it, so that AMG retains little of the exclusivity and cachet that it once had. I mean, an AMG G-Wagen, or AMG R-Class ? Why?

Many people have tried and tried to extract "hidden" power from the E500E powertrain through computer mods, EEPROMs, EZL resistor settings, and other means, and have been wholly unsuccessful. It's been discussed, and various things have been tried for many many years.

There are really only a few proven things to increase output from an M119, as found in the E500E:

- put in a nitrous-oxide system (a la BergWerks) (best bang for the buck, but limited use)
- put in a supercharger (a few folks have done it, but it's not easy and it's not cheap)
- put in a turbocharger (couple folks have done it, but it's not easy and it's not cheap)
- increase displacement (some folks have done it, AMG & other tuners have done it, but it's not easy and it's not cheap)
- put in a 1992 LH module (+~10 HP, easy bang for the buck)
- put in performance hardware (exhaust, cams, intake, fuel injection, cats, etc.) (some folks have done it, but it's not easy and it's not cheap)

Bottom line is that it's exceedingly difficult to tune the E500E without spending $10 minimum, and more like $20K to do it right. Traditional "easy" fixes like new exhaust, bigger air-boxes and chip-tuning don't yield squat, and sometimes can REMOVE performance. MB did a pretty good job tuning the E500E right out of the box. Even the AMG 6-liter motor is only 380-400 HP ... you have to pay A LOT of money for what, 80 HP? And there is hardware like specific EZL and LH modules that should be used with the AMG 6-liter motors. And those are like rocking-horse poop, at least on this side of the Atlantic.

At least with the 560SEC in US guise, you can spend a few grand and pretty much get it up to the 300 HP level, or you have the option of installing a CIS-E-injected M119 if you really want to go wild. And newer cars are more easily chip-tuned, or have options like the Kleeman supercharger available.

 

[Maui]

Gerry, that is pretty much what I have gleaned from my limited research. I have swapped the '92 LH module. I'm sure others have tried bigger MAF's and injectors. I'm curious to see just how much the existing CAN system can adapt. Obviously others have already tried and if it worked everyone would be doing it.

 

[baviking1]

Re: 1992 LH module (fuel injection computer)

Our E500Es are sort of in a performance Twilight Zone. Meaning that they are not choked up and lowest common denominator compromises like the 1980s cars were; and are modern enough to have first-gen CAN systems and offer the benefits of computerization; but yet don't have the tweak-ability and advanced diagnostics and such of cars from the 2000 period onward. So as E500E owners, the quest for major additional horsepower is elusive at best ... and always highly expensive.

Couple this with the fact that few folks buy MBs for the purposes of performance ... contrast with the more performance oriented images of Audi and BMW, and the aftermarket industries they support. Heck, even Mercedes-AMG didn't really start taking off until 2000 and later ... and now they've overdone it, so that AMG retains little of the exclusivity and cachet that it once had. I mean, an AMG G-Wagen, or AMG R-Class ? Why?

Many people have tried and tried to extract "hidden" power from the E500E powertrain through computer mods, EEPROMs, EZL resistor settings, and other means, and have been wholly unsuccessful. It's been discussed, and various things have been tried for many many years.

There are really only a few proven things to increase output from an M119, as found in the E500E:

- put in a nitrous-oxide system (a la BergWerks) (best bang for the buck, but limited use)
- put in a supercharger (a few folks have done it, but it's not easy and it's not cheap)
- put in a turbocharger (couple folks have done it, but it's not easy and it's not cheap)
- increase displacement (some folks have done it, AMG & other tuners have done it, but it's not easy and it's not cheap)
- put in a 1992 LH module (+~10 HP, easy bang for the buck)
- put in performance hardware (exhaust, cams, intake, fuel injection, cats, etc.) (some folks have done it, but it's not easy and it's not cheap)

Bottom line is that it's exceedingly difficult to tune the E500E without spending $10 minimum, and more like $20K to do it right. Traditional "easy" fixes like new exhaust, bigger air-boxes and chip-tuning don't yield squat, and sometimes can REMOVE performance. MB did a pretty good job tuning the E500E right out of the box. Even the AMG 6-liter motor is only 380-400 HP ... you have to pay A LOT of money for what, 80 HP? And there is hardware like specific EZL and LH modules that should be used with the AMG 6-liter motors. And those are like rocking-horse poop, at least on this side of the Atlantic.

At least with the 560SEC in US guise, you can spend a few grand and pretty much get it up to the 300 HP level, or you have the option of installing a CIS-E-injected M119 if you really want to go wild. And newer cars are more easily chip-tuned, or have options like the Kleeman supercharger available.

"Its not easy,and its not cheap" should be the E500 mantra. I'm pretty sure the stock 5.0L will go fast enough to suit me.....

 

[Maui]

For some of us there is an uncontrollable urge for more power. Enough is never "enough" until you hit the wall, figuratively speaking of course, or run out of money.

 

[baviking1]

For some of us there is an uncontrollable urge for more power. Enough is never "enough" until you hit the wall, figuratively speaking of course, or run out of money.

I'll probably be the same way, but I'll know for sure tomorrow when I get behind the wheel of the E500 for the first time. I still have visions of Albrex, Garrett, and Bergwerks dancing around in my head, but first things first....