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First Gear Start Install help

maplevalleyhammer

E500E Enthusiast
Member
Is there a DIY for first gear start install on the forum?
I have looked but no luck. Also, the one that I have aquired did not come with bolts, are the stock ones interchangeable?
Finally......I am sure that I have seen a list of parts (filter, seal etc.) that are necessary to do the swap, any help on finding that info would be greatly appreciated!
BP in Seattle
 
The bolts can be re-used, although close attention should be paid to where they go, because there are different sizes used.

It is a no-brainer to change the fluid (pan + torque converter) and filter while doing the FGS job.

A new transmission pan gasket is HIGHLY recommended. They are cheap, even at the dealership.

There is no official HOW-TO for the job posted here.
 
I'm sure there are risks with switching valve bodies, however I felt that the primary risk was associated with its installation, not the performance of the valve body itself, which is MB built and engineered. As far as risks to the trans itself, I wasn't overly concerned as they were installed in every .034 built. Haven't heard of any trans issues unique to .034's and their FGS valve bodies. That was a good enough for me. I will let those more technically qualified than I speak to other risks that I've neglected or overlooked. Since installation of the FGS valve body required dropping the trans pan, etc. I was not comfortable with my personal mechanical skill level (at that time), I had the most experienced mechanic (plug here for Jono :jono:)I could find in my area perform the switch. In addition to minimizing the chances of an installation mistake, Jono also knew to upgrade the valve body to address known concerns (for eg. upgraded 2-3 shift kit). In my personal view, it was money well spent. Others (Maui comes to mind) have performed this job themselves, which is a tribute to their skill level and speaks to resources this board makes available to its members.

As far as my trans goes, its been about 18 mos since the valve bodies were switched and it still appears to be operating to spec and I haven't noticed any unusual issues (knock on wood). I am very satisfied with this modification and haven't regretted it for a moment. Hope this helps.
 
Mostly theories. One theory is that it was done for better gas mileage, etc. It sounds plausible, however, I don't see much evidence that there is a huge gas savings starting in second gear vs starting in first gear.


If I were to concoct a theory, it would be more of a question of, "why did MB make the 400e/e420's first gear start sedans?" To which my answer would be, "to close the gap between the performance of the 400e and the 5.0 litre sedans."

If the 400e's started in second gear, they would not seam as peppy off the line. When I was first looking for a w124 8 cylinder car, the first one I drove was a 400e and I was pretty impressed. At the time I did not know it started in first gear. The second MB I drove was an sl500. I was impressed, but it wasn't by a huge margin.

any info why the 500E was 2nd gear start?
 
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thanks for the info!
nice to hear some reviews and opinions as i have a valve body on the way... but my car's running so well that i'm nervous to start messing around with it.
but i'm so curious to do the mod!

I'm sure there are risks with switching valve bodies, however I felt that the primary risk was associated with its installation, not the performance of the valve body itself, which is MB built and engineered. As far as risks to the trans itself, I wasn't overly concerned as they were installed in every .034 built. Haven't heard of any trans issues unique to .034's and their FGS valve bodies. That was a good enough for me. I will let those more technically qualified than I speak to other risks that I've neglected or overlooked. Since installation of the FGS valve body required dropping the trans pan, etc. I was not comfortable with my personal mechanical skill level (at that time), I had the most experienced mechanic (plug here for Jono :jono:)I could find in my area perform the switch. In addition to minimizing the chances of an installation mistake, Jono also knew to upgrade the valve body to address known concerns (for eg. upgraded 2-3 shift kit). In my personal view, it was money well spent. Others (Maui comes to mind) have performed this job themselves, which is a tribute to their skill level and speaks to resources this board makes available to its members.

As far as my trans goes, its been about 18 mos since the valve bodies were switched and it still appears to be operating to spec and I haven't noticed any unusual issues (knock on wood). I am very satisfied with this modification and haven't regretted it for a moment. Hope this helps.
 
Being the good member that I am, I am willing to let Gerry install my new valve body (which Gerry gave me) so that he can write up a DIY on the process. Gerry?
 
It would be especially helpful to get detailed info on the R&R and mods to the FGS valve body. I have seen some of this info on other forums, but don't really trust what I see there...
 
I'm sure the factory manual covers removal and replacement of the Valve body. It's 6 pan bolts, then 15 to remove the VB. You need to keep things clean and this would be a good indoor on a lift task. Any benz mechanic should be able to do it with a fluid and filter change for a small upcharge( 15 minute task).


Michael
 
any info why the 500E was 2nd gear start?

Because like most other MB models, the rear axle ratio is low enough that it doesn't affect performance.
2:82 compared to the 400E's 2:24 ratio

Mostly theories. One theory is that that it was done for better gas mileage, etc. It sounds plausible, however, I don't see much evidence that there is a huge gas savings starting in second gear vs starting in first gear.


If I were to concoct a theory, it would be a that the question should be, "why did MB make the 400e/e420's first gear start sedans. To which my answer would be, "to make them more close the gap between the performance of the 400e and the 5.0 litre sedans."

If the 400e's started in second gear, they would not seam as peppy off the line. When I was first looking for a w124 8 cylinder car, the first one I drove was a 400e and I was pretty impressed. At the time I did not know it started in first gear. The second MB I drove was an sl500. I was impressed, but if wasn't by a huge margin.

No, good guess though.

The 400E / E420 has a very tall (high) rear axle ratio for fuel economy reasons in the US and Japan.

Think of a stick shift car, start in first gear, takes of normally, try taking off in third gear............

So, to deal with the 2:24 rear axle ratio, MB installed first gear start VB

The E500E has a 2:82 rear axle ratio.
The difference @ 150 mph, the 400E is only turning 4600 rpm compared to the 500E turning 5500 rpm at the same speed.

If you installed a 2:82 axle in a 400E
you would have a serious challenge in acceleration against the 500E
 
thanks for the info!
nice to hear some reviews and opinions as i have a valve body on the way... but my car's running so well that i'm nervous to start messing around with it.
but i'm so curious to do the mod!

I've been told that FGS is hard on the transmission, but didn't get a sufficient explanation to convince or deter me. It seems to be one of those "easy to assert, hard to prove" sort of things, so I went ahead with it and I'm happy I did. As with most powerful MB sedans, in genteel driving it's fine if not perfect. Any more aggressive than that and it's more like a perfectly good waste of tire rubber. But your foot will quickly learn the difference.

So we may as well apply a bit of science here: Of those who have FGS on an .036 trans, how long (time and miles) have you had it and have you noticed any degradation in transmission performance? I think we can leave out the fluid/maintenance comments as those have been covered in nauseating ad nauseum elsewhere. But sharing experience on the topic will help us newbies understand the risk we are taking (or contemplating or have taken) with this mod, or it would help me at least.

Thanks, Gents. Cheers,

maw

P.S. I'll go first: I'm at about 3 months and less than 1,000 miles on FGS with a fresh Sun Valley rebuild. So I don't know sh*t from Shinola on the topic yet.
 
Why would something that MB installed in a similar model (the 034) be detrimental, seeing as it's a factory part? And MB made it available at will via use of the "B" switch? Sounds like someone's over-active imagination at work, if you ask me.

Certainly you're going to burn more rubber with FGS, particularly if ASR is turned off and/or it's wet or slippery outside. I just don't see how it's going to shorten/affect the life of the transmission, though. Plenty of other MBs used factory FGS

I've had the BergWerks FGS installed for 9.5 years now. Honestly I don't use it all that much (certainly not for everyday use). I'd say I've been using it for 50-55,000 miles with no problems. FGS doesn't affect the reverse issues that I'm in the early to mid stages of suffering.
 
Captain Needa found out what happens when someone fails me..........:clarkz1:....Force Choke.
 
Had MB installed a FGS valve body on the 500e from the factory and with no B-Switch.
We would have no theories (including my guess) and no questions as to whether it is detrimental or not.

It still is interesting to me why there are no other analogous examples on other MB models. For example, the 2.8 w124 sedans and 3.2 sedans, none come with a b-switch? 3.2 w124, no second gear start with b-switch either ?

Scratch your heads . . . .400se, b-switch !
 
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Why would something that MB installed in a similar model (the 034) be detrimental, seeing as it's a factory part? And MB made it available at will via use of the "B" switch? Sounds like someone's over-active imagination at work, if you ask me.

Certainly you're going to burn more rubber with FGS, particularly if ASR is turned off and/or it's wet or slippery outside. I just don't see how it's going to shorten/affect the life of the transmission, though. Plenty of other MBs used factory FGS

I've had the BergWerks FGS installed for 9.5 years now. Honestly I don't use it all that much (certainly not for everyday use). I'd say I've been using it for 50-55,000 miles with no problems. FGS doesn't affect the reverse issues that I'm in the early to mid stages of suffering.

That was Marc at Sun Valley who quipped, "it's hard on the transmissions" but when I pressed as to why I didn't get anything specific. As a seller of transmissions with a 3 year warranty, maybe he has incentive to say that. Maybe not. Maybe it's that people who have FGS like to thrash the cars and therefore damage the transmissions. Maybe not. I don't know, but I went ahead anyway. He also indicated that rebuilding valve bodies was a rabbit hole of a science project that's wisely not entered -- better to just get one from the factory second hand. Again, I don't know. I'm just reporting the news here.

Finally, I know Satish Tumala once had a former AMG installer fiddle with his springs, etc. for the V12 SEC he built. When Satish and I discussed that a month or so ago, again I recall it being a science project not wisely duplicated.

So my takeaway from all this is (and was): (1) FGS, yes; (2) rebuild valve body, no (unless you're Jono is the widely held caveat). And if you're going to thrash the car with FGS, you WILL burn more rubber and you MAY burn up the transmission. That was enough info for me to make a decision. From GVZs experience, I'll take 55k miles on the car as that will take me deep into my ownership.

Cheers Gents,

maw
 
That was Marc at Sun Valley who quipped, "it's hard on the transmissions"
but when I pressed as to why I didn't get anything specific.
As a seller of transmissions with a 3 year warranty, maybe he has incentive to say that.
Cheers Gents,

maw

I have great respect for Marc, but in this case he is WRONG. It is not hard on the transmission.

The only difference between a 036 transmission and the 034 is the valve body.

The W140 S420 uses the same transmission as the 034. A 722.366
The only difference is the part# because of..........you guessed it,
second gear start valve body because of the lower rear axle ratio.

Finally, when we went to MB new model training for the 034/036 we asked
about why the 034 received a FGS and not the 036.

Answer: rear axle ratio of 2:24 which was chosen for fuel economy rating.

Hope that settles the non issue.

.
 
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Finally, I know Satish Tumala once had a former AMG installer fiddle with his springs, etc. for the V12 SEC he built. When Satish and I discussed that a month or so ago, again I recall it being a science project not wisely duplicated.
The aforementioned science project was documented on this forum at this link.

I'm not sure where people get the idea that FGS in any way is hard on the transmission... it isn't. About the only change is there will be more wear on the 1-2 upshift bands/clutches, which previously sat around doing nothing 99% of the time. I'm sure Klink can expound in more detail as I'm not very familiar with 722.x innards.

:klink:
 
The aforementioned science project was documented on this forum at this link.

Right. He and I got into that because I was thinking of recruiting the same guy to "tune" mine after installation. Instead, I took up too much of Klink's time, to see if I could get the transmission and valve body set to my preference short of driving it to ATL to see Klink and Jono (which I'll do anyway at some point simply for "the love of the game"). I don't install, tune, rebuild or otherwise fiddle with transmissions, so all I can do is compare what I learn here (thanks Guys!) with what information I gather from other expert sources. I think it's all useful data.

maw
 
Jono also knew to upgrade the valve body to address known concerns (for eg. upgraded 2-3 shift kit)

About the only change is there will be more wear on the 1-2 upshift bands/clutches, which previously sat around doing nothing 99% of the time.

I would really appreciate some more information on this issue....what is involved in upgrading the 2-3 shift with a shift-kit?
 
Installing the FGS valve body is a very simple project. The worst part is draining the transmission and working under the car while fluid continues to drip, drip, drip. I did mine with the car on race ramps. Doing it with lift would be much better.

Basically you drain the transmission through the drain plug, remove the cross over pipe, drain the torque converter, remove the pan, drain some more, remove the bolts holding the valve body in place, drain some more, make sure everything stays clean, install the replacement valve body, install the new pan gasket and pan, add fluid, start the car and run through the gears a couple times, drive around to heat up the fluid and top off as needed. And last but not least clean up the mess all over your garage floor and smell like transmission fluid the rest of the day.
 
The aforementioned science project was documented on this forum at this link.

I'm not sure where people get the idea that FGS in any way is hard on the transmission... it isn't. About the only change is there will be more wear on the 1-2 upshift bands/clutches, which previously sat around doing nothing 99% of the time. I'm sure Klink can expound in more detail as I'm not very familiar with 722.x innards.

:klink:

The valve body part looks a lot less like a science project, and much more like a trial and error project. That's not a criticism, and it was obviously an educated trial and error project, because they wound up with the result they wanted, but it won't be the result most people here want. Simply manipulating the springing around to produce a full-time FGS in a second gear start valve body results in some really odd behavior at low and parking lot speeds. It's a complete buzz kill for me, I've done a couple and then put them right back to stock. A true FGS valve body has differently dimensioned and configured valves and bores on the amplified governor pressure valve (#44 in the diagrams, IIRC, and I may not be RC), and at least one other valve, and these different dimensions, passages, and spring configurations, and even spring placements (they can be on the opposite side of the valves on FGS versus non-FGS versions) enable smooth and predictable transitions and 1-2 / 2-1 shift points at low speeds.

The USA .034 valve body is the cleanest, quickest, easiest way to accomplish full-time FGS in a .036. Note that euro version.034s use a 2.65 diff, and an SGS configuration almost identical to that in the .036.

I personally don't know if I would want a full-time FGS in my.036 unless I also did a 2.24 diff, but that's just me. I will probably do a switchable electronically based FGS one of these days, but even that's not something the blows my skirt way up. Anytime I want an FGS for either traffic or tomfoolery, it's as close as my right foot or my right hand, and in almost all of those situations I am manually shifting anyway, precisely the way the MB Gods intended. That's why that magnificent and strangely unduplicated in the rest of the industry shift gate is there.

I probably won't do this either, but my mind is racing with ways to incorporate the MB shifter and shift gate into my 722.3 equipped 928. Unless Benz has some kind of weird "rights" to that shifter design, why the hell didn't Porsche just use that too? It would've made something already great ever so much the better.

More general chatter:

FGS is not "hard" on anything. Period. Let me repeat that, just in case I was not clear. FGS is not "hard" on anything. Period.

SGS is not "hard" on anything. Period. Let me repeat that, just in case I was not clear. SGS is not "hard" on anything. Period.

The torque "experienced" by the transmission is the same for any given rate of acceleration. Yes, there can be some minor internal stress differences, but those differences are only going to exist in a significant amount at very high loads, and at those loads these transmissions are already FGS, even in stock form, so in other words, they already are designed for it. At normal daily driving acceleration rates, these force differences on various transmission internal bits will never amount to enough to matter.

Some people have discussed why certain models have "B position" switches, and others don't. Note that it is only the 8 and 12 cylinder models that have the "B" switch. This is due to their generally numerically lower axle ratios. It is easy to forget the overwhelmingly important and all defining fact that the fact that these vehicles, and most especially the vehicles that we tend to discuss here, were actually designed by Europeans, for Europeans. The B position switches are to enable heavy engine braking at very low speeds. No, not the kind of engine braking and snappy acceleration from a dead stop that you "Speed Racer" types are thinking of. I probably should have also pointed out that the Europeans I mentioned above were actually "adult Europeans", so no there, Mr. HAM-ilton, they were thinking of starting off and then continuing down one of the incredibly steep hills that they have over there with a full complement of passengers, luggage, and the trailer up to its maximum permitted weight. I suppose they also considered it useful for starting and ascending up that same grade with the same load without requiring something close to full throttle. Note that there is no smooth down shift into first when using the B switch on decel. It wasn't really intended to be shifted into on-the-fly, except at creeping speeds, but no, you aren't going to hurt anything if you do that as well, other than your inner driver's ego, as you jerk and destabilize the vehicle. :doh:

The B switches were added to the V8 cars when they decided to use numerically lower axle ratios worldwide as part of a whole package of fuel efficiency enhancements referred to as the "energy concept". These changes were performed around what we would consider the start of model year '82 production. They remained until the advent of the electronically controlled 722.6 transmission, which gave you the ability to pick FGS or SGS on your own, along with two different reverse speeds (!) for that matter. No, the 2 speed reverse wasn't for stunts. It was for backing out of a hill on slippery surfaces. See how that "adult" thing worked at MB?

Do not confuse this with the "S" (Standard), and "W" (Wet) transmission mode switches that many of the European version of these cars were equipped with. "W" was for even lazier transmission response, most suited to slippery weather, and / or putting around in their seriously bad traffic jams. Why didn't we get it? I don't know, but it's just as well. All it would've done with our customers is violently confuse them, and make them complain about "hesitation" even more as they floored their cars at stop lights, wonder what that little thump was, assume it is something bad, and then bring it to us complaining.

On that subject, the more things change, the more that's exactly how they are now...
:klink:
 
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Why would something that MB installed in a similar model (the 034) be detrimental, seeing as it's a factory part?

Certainly you're going to burn more rubber with FGS, particularly if ASR is turned off and/or it's wet or slippery outside.
I just don't see how it's going to shorten/affect the life of the transmission, though. Plenty of other MBs used factory FGS

I'm not sure where people get the idea that FGS in any way is hard on the transmission... it isn't.

FGS is not "hard" on anything. Period. Let me repeat that, just in case I was not clear. FGS is not "hard" on anything. Period.

And Vader makes 4.

I hope this settles the FGS "hard on the transmission" issue.

Hard on the tires, sometimes......;)
 
Do the w140 4.2 cars have the same differential as the w140 5.0 models?
Do the w140 4.2 cars have a first gear start valve bodies?

I have great respect for Marc, but in this case he is WRONG. It is not hard on the transmission.

The only difference between a 036 transmission and the 034 is the valve body.

The W140 S420 uses the same transmission as the 034. A 722.366
The only difference is the part# because of..........you guessed it,
second gear start valve body because of the lower rear axle ratio.

Finally, when we went to MB new model training for the 034/036 we asked
about why the 034 received a FGS and not the 036.

Answer: rear axle ratio of 2:24 which was chosen for fuel economy rating.

Hope that settles the non issue.

.
 
Do the w140 4.2 cars have the same differential as the w140 5.0 models?
Do the w140 4.2 cars have a first gear start valve bodies?

No and no. With the 722.3 transmissions, IIRC the 500s used a 2.65 diff, and the 420s used a 2.82 diff. Both of them have second gear start from the beginning of production, through the '95 model year. From '96 on they received the 722.6 automatic, and on those FGS/SGS is driver selectable via the S/W switch.
 
The W140 S420 uses the same transmission as the 034. A 722.366
The only difference is the part# because of..........you guessed it,
second gear start valve body because of the lower rear axle ratio.

Do the w140 4.2 cars have the same differential as the w140 5.0 models?
Do the w140 4.2 cars have a first gear start valve bodies?

Did you read my post you quoted?

I clearly said the S420 uses the same transmission as the 034.

722.366, with a second gear start valve body.

All use the same rare axle case, only the rear cover and gear ratio is different.

You can use a W140 or R129 rear axle for the lower ratio in a 034

You just need to use NON ASR or ASR depending on what you have
Also it need to be pre 96 because of the ABS sensor location
and swap the rear cover.

92-95
 
140.04x with 722.3xx has SGS with 2.82 axle ratio.
124.034 with 722.3xx has FGS with 2.24 axle ratio.

034's got the granny gears for CAFE requirements, or so the story goes. Second gear start with 2.24 would probably be anemic off the line.

not like this --> :e500launch:
 
And not many of us are taking Granny's valve bodies.
For me personally, I don't need no stinkin' granny valvebody. I've got the BergWerks FGS kit, which has winter, normal and sport modes, along with integrated door-lock activation. All of it completely adjustable :agree:
 
This space for Rant
:hornets:

Okay, once and for all, second gear start in MBs was never a "fuel economy measure" or an "emissions measure" The choice of first gear start or second gear start was entirely a matter of "driving asthetics", if you will, with ocasional consideration of getting the car moving on snow and ice. Don't forget, where these cars came from they have two seasons, those being winter, and winter will be back in a minute. Once again I'd like to reiterate, they also have hills, very seriously steep hills.

Note that there is no general rule for what gets first gear start or second gear start. A particular model with its national version, engine configuration, rear axle ratio, etc. got first or second gear start to pass some kind of internal requirement at MB. Those requirements were probably even at the discretion of some individual in charge of powertrain development. Perhaps he liked a certain kind of smoothness and feel in city traffic, and they picked the second gear start accordingly. Or a certain model had a particular torque or horsepower versus RPM characteristic and it got first gear start instead. I have often thought that they were simply trying to avoid the destabilizing influence of having one other shift occur when they did not deem it necessary given the overall torque characteristics of the particular powertrain in question.

Note 380s and turbo diesels with high rear axle ratios and with first gear start. Note that almost all non-turbo diesels had relatively high axle ratios, and if they had a torque converter, they usually got second gear start. Most of the non turbo diesels equipped with a fluid coupling got first gear start. Yet through all this, exceptions abound. More than anything else the people in charge of this were trying to achieve smooth, easy operation with a very controllable throttle response, balanced by the characteristics they wanted the vehicle to exhibit at the extremely high speeds that they cruise in Western Europe (or at least that they did). Note the extremely long accelerator pedal travels extant on all MBs continuing to this day.

While I'm on that subject, consider the singular distinction that Germany represents for motoring. In one area of the world smaller than many of our states, there exist some of the steepest hills that must be started and stopped on, along with average highway speeds that most nations consider too dangerous to even think about. That combination in close proximity just simply does not exist anywhere else. Now throw in on top of that four dramatically different seasons. MB has always been trying to design a car that works at least respectably in all of these conditions, excellently if possible. They were never trying to build John Force's next funny car, and I for one am very happy that they weren't.

During enthusiastic driving, these cars were intended to be manually shifted, and if you ever rode with one of the old school engineering types that's exactly what they did. It's why the shifter gates are there, so you don't have to look at it and think about it, you can just slap that thing around like a red headed step child and it predictably, reliably and controllably does what you ask.

:stirthepot: All this fuss about FGS or SGS makes me wonder about how the hell some of you people drive! I hit triple digits usually several times a day, and I have just never found any of this to be an issue or a factor. Other than Jono and Ron 500E, probably very few of you would hang with me on most roads, yet you're always all wadded up about this first fifty feet of motion from a stop(!?) I just do not understand the fetish over this thing, the drag racers among us obviously excepted...
:duck:

The absolute essence of fast motoring on public roads is to do everything in good time, but never anything suddenly. Our automatic transmissions are perfect for that, FGS or SGS, and light years better than any conceivable manual transmission too, for that matter. That's exactly how MB viewed it. They offered, and still offer in other places, manual transmissions, but only in response to market demand. Ever since they designed their own automatic which they deemed "efficient" enough, they have considered manual transmissions a woeful anachronism, as do I. But they have always supplied an automatic with extreme accessibility and shift-ability for enthusiastic or special situations. That .5% of the time that you actually want to drive briskly, just grab that damn thing and shift it as you see fit. That's what it's there for. You aren't going to break your arm, or anything else for that matter...
:klink:
 
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For me personally, I don't need no stinkin' granny valvebody. I've got the BergWerks FGS kit, which has winter, normal and sport modes, along with integrated door-lock activation. All of it completely adjustable :agree:

And that set up rocks like Elvis! I could actually be interested in one of those one day...
:hitit:
 
This space for Rant
:hornets:

Okay, once and for all, second gear start in MBs was never a "fuel economy measure" or an "emissions measure" The choice of first gear start or second gear start was entirely a matter of "driving asthetics", if you will, with ocasional consideration of getting the car moving on snow and ice. Don't forget, where these cars came from they have two seasons, those being winter, and winter will be back in a minute. Once again I'd like to reiterate, they also have hills, very seriously steep hills.

Note that there is no general rule for what gets first gear start or second gear start. A particular model with its national version, engine configuration, rear axle ratio, etc. got first or second gear start to pass some kind of internal requirement at MB. Those requirements were probably even at the discretion of some individual in charge of powertrain development. Perhaps he liked a certain kind of smoothness and feel in city traffic, and they picked the second gear start accordingly. Or a certain model had a particular torque or horsepower versus RPM characteristic and it got first gear start instead. I have often thought that they were simply trying to avoid the destabilizing influence of having one other shift occur when they did not deem it necessary given the overall torque characteristics of the particular powertrain in question.

Note 380s and turbo diesels with high rear axle ratios and with first gear start. Note that almost all non-turbo diesels had relatively high axle ratios, and if they had a torque converter, they usually got second gear start. Most of the non turbo diesels equipped with a fluid coupling got first gear start. Yet through all this, exceptions abound. More than anything else the people in charge of this were trying to achieve smooth, easy operation with a very controllable throttle response, balanced by the characteristics they wanted the vehicle to exhibit at the extremely high speeds that they cruise in Western Europe (or at least that they did). Note the extremely long accelerator pedal travels extant on all MBs continuing to this day.

While I'm on that subject, consider the singular distinction that Germany represents for motoring. In one area of the world smaller than many of our states, there exist some of the steepest hills that must be started and stopped on, along with average highway speeds that most nations consider too dangerous to even think about. That combination in close proximity just simply does not exist anywhere else. Now throw in on top of that four dramatically different seasons. MB has always been trying to design a car that works at least respectably in all of these conditions, excellently if possible. They were never trying to build John Force's next funny car, and I for one am very happy that they weren't.

During enthusiastic driving, these cars were intended to be manually shifted, and if you ever rode with one of the old school engineering types that's exactly what they did. It's why the shifter gates are there, so you don't have to look at it and think about it, you can just slap that thing around like a red headed step child and it predictably, reliably and controllably does what you ask.

:stirthepot: All this fuss about FGS or SGS makes me wonder about how the hell some of you people drive! I hit triple digits usually several times a day, and I have just never found any of this to be an issue or a factor. Other than Jono, probably very few of you would hang with me on most roads, yet you're always all wadded up about this first fifty feet of motion from a stop(!?) I just do not understand the fetish over this thing, the drag racers among us obviously excepted...
:duck:

The absolute essence of fast motoring on public roads is to do everything in good time, but never anything suddenly. Our automatic transmissions are perfect for that, FGS or SGS, and light years better than any conceivable manual transmission too, for that matter. That's exactly how MB viewed it. They offered, and still offer in other places, manual transmissions, but only in response to market demand. Ever since they designed their own automatic which they deemed "efficient" enough, they have considered manual transmissions a woeful anachronism, as do I. But they have always supplied an automatic with extreme accessibility and shift-ability for enthusiastic or special situations. That .5% of the time that you actually want to drive briskly, just grab that damn thing and shift it as you see fit. That's what it's there for. You aren't going to break your arm, or anything else for that matter...
:klink:
Huh? Zzzzzz.....
4.gif
 
And I used the hornets :hornets:

I figure that as long as I use the hornets I can say absolutely anything and not piss anyone off. It's kind of like swatting an attractive coworker on the rear end and saying "good game!" As long as you say good game it can't be harassment...
:klink:
 
And I used the hornets :hornets:

I figure that as long as I use the hornets I can say absolutely anything and not piss anyone off. It's kind of like swatting an attractive coworker on the rear end and saying "good game!" As long as you say good game it can't be harassment...
:klink:
Indeed, whenever I put down the .034, I just add the :stickpoke: (sort of like a "get out of jail free" card in Monopoly) to the post, and that keeps Vader from getting bent out of shape and trying to Force-choke me....
 

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