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Sports Car Market profile piece on W210 E55 AMG (non-K M113)
- Thread starter gerryvz
- Start date
Yeah... I'm calling BS on this claim. EPC shows the same springs & sway bars from 1997-2002, worldwide.
"2,500 produced for the U.S. Market" is a bit off from it being approximate.
The total U.S. production numbers for the W210 E55 are 3,959.
1999: 732
2000: 946
2001: 1,292
2002: 989
Nice article otherwise although my first time hearing there's a different sway bar on the 01 and 02 cars. I have pre-facelift and facelift but didn't notice a difference. Needless to say I haven't been driving my E55s nearly as much as the E60s
The total U.S. production numbers for the W210 E55 are 3,959.
1999: 732
2000: 946
2001: 1,292
2002: 989
Nice article otherwise although my first time hearing there's a different sway bar on the 01 and 02 cars. I have pre-facelift and facelift but didn't notice a difference. Needless to say I haven't been driving my E55s nearly as much as the E60s
So, to get this correct:
- The W210 E55 AMG was produced ONLY with the natch-asp AMG M113 from 1999-2002, albeit with a horsepower upgrade from the .036 M119 ~315-320HP to the M113 ~349 and ~354. For the US market, ONLY sedans were produced, no W210 E55 wagons?
- The W211 E55 AMG (with supercharged M113) were produced from 2003 through 2006 model year, in both sedan and wagon for the US market.
- The W211 E63 AMG took over as of the 2007 model year (what I have), which correlated to the "facelift" of the W211 during its production run.
- The W212 E63 AMG took over in the US as of model year 2010, but carried over the M156 (almost same from W211) for the 2010 and 2011 model years, before the smaller displacement twint V-8 "E63" AMG took over.
I believe that is all correct. @WDB748372 may be able to confirm, I'm not an expert on the 210 variants.
Spot on. That's correct, no 210 E55 wagons for U.S. market. RoW got 1,721.
There are a total of 10,070 RWD E55 sedans (at least according to all the VINs I got from EPC).
An additional 41 E55 4-Matic sedans and 90 E55 4-Matic wagons.
The total production number would come out to be 11,922.
Yes, and even more shocking is how FEW they made! So much for a nice winter driver. E55 4Matic wagon would be a nice grocery getter.
oh no winter would kill it the metal or finish on those cars were junkYes, and even more shocking is how FEW they made! So much for a nice winter driver. E55 4Matic wagon would be a nice grocery getter.
VIN = WDB2102831X057806
Just listed, although owner has been trying to sell it for almost a year. Someone needs to tell him this isn't "1 of 15"
Would be a cool car to own one E55 4-Matic wagon but E60 wagon is way more fun
@mottati - Is that reading accurate? wow!
Yes, and even more shocking is how FEW they made! So much for a nice winter driver. E55 4Matic wagon would be a nice grocery getter.
I've got your 360hp V8 grocery getter wagons @gsxr ...
@WDB748372 "a bit off from it being approximate" is funny!
maw
I love my W210 E55 (until a Nissan ultima driver t boned me). I still have it but it needs to be put on a frame machine and straightened. It was my daily driver for about 6 years and was replaced by a W220 S55K until I started daily driving my W211 E320CDI (which is plenty fast).
Compared to the W211, I found the W210 to be better made with nicer quality materials inside. They were also Toyota reliable. I'm not sure what they're worth these days but I remember discussing them on this forum a few years back and they were bargains compared to the E500E.
WRT to swaybar. When I ordered bushings for my 2002, they gave me the wrong ones which were thinner. IIRC, W140 S500 sway bar bushings fit.
I know a guy who recently just sold his 15 E63S wagon. That thing was a weapon. Not enough Jekyll and too much Hyde.
Compared to the W211, I found the W210 to be better made with nicer quality materials inside. They were also Toyota reliable. I'm not sure what they're worth these days but I remember discussing them on this forum a few years back and they were bargains compared to the E500E.
WRT to swaybar. When I ordered bushings for my 2002, they gave me the wrong ones which were thinner. IIRC, W140 S500 sway bar bushings fit.
I know a guy who recently just sold his 15 E63S wagon. That thing was a weapon. Not enough Jekyll and too much Hyde.
All Hyde, leave the good doctor at home. The previous owner of my 500E now drives one. But he's a special case... former race car driver and racing team owner. Now in his mid 70's, he has yet to see a need -- zero -- for Dr. Jekyll.
maw
That's kind of a bummer to hear. I do like my w210.065 and it is quite Toyota-like in its reliability. I do like the sound and feel of the doors when you shut them, but I do find the interior fittings, although relatively robust, to be ever so slightly inferior in robustness to those of the w124.
I am chagrined to hear that the w211's interior fittings are still less robust.
Yes, the W210 has a lighter interior feel when compared to the W124 / W126 but somehow, it made them hold up better. I still see plenty of W210's with working a/c, crack free dash and crack free wood. The W124 was constructed with higher quality materials. Unfortunately, high quality materials may not necessarily mean durable. You just have to look at anything with a full leather dash for an example of this.
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For daily drive i use only w210 one 320cdi an e420 both Station Wagon.I like zhe space inside for long distance driving.And you can put straight an Euro Range into.And i can Touch Handling all Temomat Wiper Radoi Seat Heating all Blindfold.
And the Hydraulik Suspension is Worlds better as an Air suspention Robisch.Nobody has social envy with this car.
And the Hydraulik Suspension is Worlds better as an Air suspention Robisch.Nobody has social envy with this car.
I have never owned a 210, and I know the AMG W211s have upgraded quality / top of the line interior quality than regular 211s do.
I would be interested to hear from someone who owns or has owned and driven both a 210 and 211 to make an educated comparison.
One thing I will say about the 211 is that it is a significant advancement over the 210 in a lot of ways.
The 210 has always felt to me like a more evolved 124 with cheaper materials and more electronics, built to a price point.
The 211 was a step forward and is very different than the 210 in terms of chassis dynamics, handling, basic platform design, interior layout, capabilities and design/functionality.
I would put the 210 to 211 as a similar leap as the 123 was to the 124, or the 126 was to the 140.
The 212 has felt to me to be a rebodied and evolved 211, again with more electronics and convenience features. The 211 also started moving away from the traditional placement of MB controls and such.
If you sit in a 211 (or 210 for that matter) and are familiar with the 124, all of the controls will feel very natural and you will basically know how to operate the vehicle in a basic sense, very intuitively.
As a six month 211 owner, I admit I may be strongly biased here. I have never owned a 210, nor will I ever own one.
I would be interested to hear from someone who owns or has owned and driven both a 210 and 211 to make an educated comparison.
One thing I will say about the 211 is that it is a significant advancement over the 210 in a lot of ways.
The 210 has always felt to me like a more evolved 124 with cheaper materials and more electronics, built to a price point.
The 211 was a step forward and is very different than the 210 in terms of chassis dynamics, handling, basic platform design, interior layout, capabilities and design/functionality.
I would put the 210 to 211 as a similar leap as the 123 was to the 124, or the 126 was to the 140.
The 212 has felt to me to be a rebodied and evolved 211, again with more electronics and convenience features. The 211 also started moving away from the traditional placement of MB controls and such.
If you sit in a 211 (or 210 for that matter) and are familiar with the 124, all of the controls will feel very natural and you will basically know how to operate the vehicle in a basic sense, very intuitively.
As a six month 211 owner, I admit I may be strongly biased here. I have never owned a 210, nor will I ever own one.
I found the opposite. The 210 interiors were seriously budget IMO. The 211 was, IMO, generally a step up... with the exception of the seat upholstery. I've seen way, way too many 211 front seats falling apart at odometer readings that don't align with the level of disintegration. The AMG models of 211 have far better seat leather, I've never seen an AMG 211 with shredded seats. At worst, the non-AMG 210+211 interiors are equal, and I think the 211 is slightly better (other than the seats). YMMV, etc etc.
I don't need to hear things like this. I'd be all over a "too much Hyde" ride. Sadly, this isn't in the budget.
Interesting opinions. I have never owned a 211. I have owned two W210s and my biggest complaint with them is the seating, it's just cheap and uncomfortable in the standard versions. I do have E55 seats to swap in and the quality appears better, premature to comment on the comfort. They don't look to be any more comfortable than the standard seats.
I've been looking at used 211s out of curiosity and as you said it seems the seats are failing prematurely.
I've been looking at used 211s out of curiosity and as you said it seems the seats are failing prematurely.
I will also say that I prefer the exterior design of the 211 over the 210 (I like the slanted headlights look of the 211 better than the upright oval headlight look of the 210). The 211 headlights overall are definitely more advanced than the 210's.
I very definitely dislike the more squared-off 212's exterior design.
There were several items on my W211 that failed prematurely (at 120kmi). The visor mirrors were broken, and needed replacement (they are separate from the visor itself). The dash vent wheels get pushed in (broken) and I had to replace left+right sides. The seats, dash, and door panels were all fine.
I also like the 211 appearance over the 210. My wife refers to the 210 as "Bugeyes", lol.
211 HID's are phenomenal. With SDS Developer Mode you can enable the Euro-only ILS (Intelligent Light System). I've never driven another vehicle with better headlights. The 210 HID's are good on low beam only (with new lenses). 210 HID's are mono-Xenon, the high beams are H7 halogens and are nearly useless. I was really surprised the 210 high beams were so poor.
Same here. The square fender profile is just... ewwww. The 212 brought back a functional analog coolant temp gauge though... the 211 bar graphs are not linear and are no more useful than a domestic C/H temp indicator.
I forgot the bumpers, They don't seem to hold up well and the plastic breaks up. I've replaced the front and rear bumpers on my CDI as well as well as the headlight lenses which only lasted about a year (aftermarket). Where the W211 wins is in handling. The CDI will run rings around my W210 E55 when it comes to cornering. The W210 is more like an American luxo barge. It has great ride on open roads but not really a handler.
I think that interior perception for the W211 can be heavily influenced by the color of the interior. Mine is a very light tan and shows wear easily. A buddy of mine has a very highly optioned CDI (heated seats, pano roof etc) with 400k miles + and it looks presentable, even though it has some problems.
I think that interior perception for the W211 can be heavily influenced by the color of the interior. Mine is a very light tan and shows wear easily. A buddy of mine has a very highly optioned CDI (heated seats, pano roof etc) with 400k miles + and it looks presentable, even though it has some problems.
OK, a few more worthless opinions here...
I have 3 124s - '87 TDT, '93 500E, '95 Cabrio - Love them all.
I had a '98 E300 Turbo - just OK IMO. Didn't seem like a Benz to me. I called it my Buick. It ended up as a donor here:
I got the first W211 E55 in my State. It was a blast in those days as not many cars then could keep up. I thought it would end up an icon like the
300SEL 6.3 but the marketers thought better. I currently have an '07 W211 Bluetec I've had since '08. Been a great car, only one repair in 17 years
It's still on the original battery...
Our current drivers are both 2012 W212 E550 4matics, both low miles [review here]. I love the squared off looks. To me they have just enough tech without having an IPOD glued to the dash. I know the engine stories and I probably over service them but when you want to get going quick they just plant and go. They are just as quick as my '03 E55 was plus the 4matic is great if you live I snow country.
I have 3 124s - '87 TDT, '93 500E, '95 Cabrio - Love them all.
I had a '98 E300 Turbo - just OK IMO. Didn't seem like a Benz to me. I called it my Buick. It ended up as a donor here:
I got the first W211 E55 in my State. It was a blast in those days as not many cars then could keep up. I thought it would end up an icon like the
300SEL 6.3 but the marketers thought better. I currently have an '07 W211 Bluetec I've had since '08. Been a great car, only one repair in 17 years
It's still on the original battery...
Our current drivers are both 2012 W212 E550 4matics, both low miles [review here]. I love the squared off looks. To me they have just enough tech without having an IPOD glued to the dash. I know the engine stories and I probably over service them but when you want to get going quick they just plant and go. They are just as quick as my '03 E55 was plus the 4matic is great if you live I snow country.
I didn't realize the W212 E550 got the M278 biturbo. That engine makes a lot of power... the performance is darn close to the W211 M156 E63, despite a 100hp deficit on paper, plus higher curb weight! I suspect MB under-rated these.
Do you get oil analysis to monitor for the cylinder wall scoring issue? Also, have you looked into disabling the "feature" that lowers oil pressure for economy reasons, which some claim might be related to the scoring problem?
I want to love the M278 but am really nervous about the downright terrible reputation. Jono refuses to own one, yikes. I wouldn't be able to resist the temptation to "tune" it to a claimed 500-550hp, depending on how outrageous the tuner claims are.
That and the AMG variant are terrifying. I hear that there's an oil pressure system that can be disabled which helps save these engines but I don't know much about it. A guy I know in Dubai bought a G63 and had to put a replacement engine in it within 6 months. He promptly sold it afterwards and bought a G55K which he's been very happy with.
I've been eyeballing 2013 CLS 63's but i'm on the fence. The older I get, the less hassle I want to deal with.
I have done a few things to my W211 AMG since buying it. Minor things that were broken / inop when I got the car are noted below in orange. Failures just before/as I got the car are in red.
Note that the things in red above, are critical issues. The other stuff is just "nice to have" repairs that honestly, 90% of owners would never bother with. Most people would just live with a non-functioning keyless-go door handle or a non-working rear sun shade. My goal was to make the car better than it was new, and I will continue to do this.
Only flaws are very slight curb rash (<1") on two of the wheels, and a very tiny 3" vertical scratch in the paint on the rear bumper cover, which (per the @gsxr) "will buff out" and I will take care of when things get a bit warmer. Other than that, the car is in a perfect state right now.
- One of the visor mirror covers on my car had a cracked hinge, so purchased a new one from MB, and happened to crack the mirror on the new one when installing it. I then used the "old" mirror to replace the "new" mirror in the plastic frame. Later, I also procured about 3-4 spare mirrors from the wrecking yards. They are easy to replace, and now I have extras if there is ever a problem again.
- I replaced the arced "handle" for the center sliding console, which had the chrome cover peeling off in a couple of small places. The handle are NLA from MB, but I have found 2-3 spares in the wrecking yards with good chrome pieces, so have extras. Replaced the one on my car
- Had to remove the rear deck and fix the motorised sun shade. Not a fun job, but at the same time I was able to repaint the rear deck piece black again, which had purpled out with age and sun exposure. This is a common issue you see with pretty much all of them.
- I had to replace the fuel filter and fuel pump modules in the top of the fuel tank, under the rear seat. Extremely common W211 and era issue with all MBs, normally covered under an extended warranty, but my car was out of warranty on this and the PO never took care of it. It was $500+ for the parts, and about 90 minutes of labor.
- I replaced the oil dipstick underhood (which was perfectly fine) with the "revised" MB dipstick for the M156, which supposedly doesn't pop out of the tube under extreme acceleration. I also replaced this MB revised dipstick with the one from 63 Motorsport, which is more accurate and also of an excellent design.
- Replaced the drivers's side door handle (with Keyless Go) with a new one I ordered from MB and had a local body shop paint for me. I retained the original handle and will repair it with new switches internally, now that I have learned how to take it apart without destroying it. I will have a spare for the future. The other three door handles work just fine.
- Installed a "Yurro" trunk warning triangle and bracket, both comm-blocked from being ordered in the US. Ordered both from Yurrope.
- Replaced steering angle sensor inside steering column, which was starting to fail intermittently. This is a common issue with the 211 that throws codes and where the computer disables the ESP system. It fixed the problem.
- Replaced the steering high-pressure hose from the pump to the rack & pinion system with the factory superseded MB hose. It's been just fine since, but am having several original hoses reproduced by a hydraulic shop here in Maryland, as noted in another thread.
Note that the things in red above, are critical issues. The other stuff is just "nice to have" repairs that honestly, 90% of owners would never bother with. Most people would just live with a non-functioning keyless-go door handle or a non-working rear sun shade. My goal was to make the car better than it was new, and I will continue to do this.
Only flaws are very slight curb rash (<1") on two of the wheels, and a very tiny 3" vertical scratch in the paint on the rear bumper cover, which (per the @gsxr) "will buff out" and I will take care of when things get a bit warmer. Other than that, the car is in a perfect state right now.
I do know that @jhodg5ck is not a fan of the W212 E63 AMG, as compared to the W211 E63 AMG.
I don't know his opinion about the pedestrian 211s and 212s......
According to Uncle Kent, the E550 W212 also eats front brake rotors horribly. He has a series of videos on this issue that he's created over the past week or 10 days.....did you advise him on this, @gsxr ?
I don't know his opinion about the pedestrian 211s and 212s......
According to Uncle Kent, the E550 W212 also eats front brake rotors horribly. He has a series of videos on this issue that he's created over the past week or 10 days.....did you advise him on this, @gsxr ?
PWNER - gerryvz | Owners and Their Cars
I have a new technique for painting the hood badges that takes about 20 minutes, rather than two hours. The job is divided up into two parts. 1) "Flood zone" where the MERCEDES-BENZ lettering and laurel wreaths are at with the blue enamel paint. Paint the whole channel/area. If you get a...
On the advice of counsel, I invoke my fifth amendment privilege against self-incrimination and respectfully decline to answer your question.
I have a face for radio, the AMG emblem doesnt change that. Maybe window tint will.
Yes it is, I really want to see the 750k badge, i'm around 416k miles currently. No major engine work. Long term owner was a service manager at mb san francisco who had a big commute, so lots of easy highway miles, and 5k mobile 1 oil changes.
Interesting to read various perspectives.
There's a smaller leap from 124->210 compared to the 210->211. I don’t have a ton of seat time in the 211 to comment on the interior quality/durability but the interior controls of the W211 didn't seem very intuitive compared to the W210 which had a similar structure to the W124.
In terms of design, I do like the pre-facelift 210 and would prefer it over the 211. Each are elegant in their own way but the 211 to me is in a separate era of design. The 210 is more in tune with a more boxy design, well minus the headlights but they’ve grown on me quite a bit.
I don't think there's as much of a following for the W210 E55. The way I see it is these were generally the commuter car, not necessarily the collectible or weekend car in one's fleet. Not in first place whether that's design, sportiness, or power but certainly more exciting than a typical daily driver. I think that was more or so the intention for owning one of these. With that, these were more susceptible to abuse than the car(s) that the owner truly cared about.
A few days ago I was trying to find the VIN of one and as I'm looking through the potential VINs it made me realize how many of these cars are well past ~150k miles. I was thinking about going through all the US VINs and recording the last reported mileage to get a better sense and see how many presentable ones there may be left after 20+ years.
Unpopular opinion but the rust issue on these cars are a bit overblown. Every car has its own flaws and if ignored then it's more likely for these to be exposed. Don't think there has been much care for these cars so they've taken a beating. And the value often doesn't justify the proper way to address rust issues.
I'm a bit biased towards the 210 so take everything with a grain of salt. Not saying they're the best Mercedes out there but I like getting in them. Probably the cheapest way to get in a M119 6.0 too.
There's a smaller leap from 124->210 compared to the 210->211. I don’t have a ton of seat time in the 211 to comment on the interior quality/durability but the interior controls of the W211 didn't seem very intuitive compared to the W210 which had a similar structure to the W124.
In terms of design, I do like the pre-facelift 210 and would prefer it over the 211. Each are elegant in their own way but the 211 to me is in a separate era of design. The 210 is more in tune with a more boxy design, well minus the headlights but they’ve grown on me quite a bit.
I don't think there's as much of a following for the W210 E55. The way I see it is these were generally the commuter car, not necessarily the collectible or weekend car in one's fleet. Not in first place whether that's design, sportiness, or power but certainly more exciting than a typical daily driver. I think that was more or so the intention for owning one of these. With that, these were more susceptible to abuse than the car(s) that the owner truly cared about.
A few days ago I was trying to find the VIN of one and as I'm looking through the potential VINs it made me realize how many of these cars are well past ~150k miles. I was thinking about going through all the US VINs and recording the last reported mileage to get a better sense and see how many presentable ones there may be left after 20+ years.
Unpopular opinion but the rust issue on these cars are a bit overblown. Every car has its own flaws and if ignored then it's more likely for these to be exposed. Don't think there has been much care for these cars so they've taken a beating. And the value often doesn't justify the proper way to address rust issues.
I'm a bit biased towards the 210 so take everything with a grain of salt. Not saying they're the best Mercedes out there but I like getting in them. Probably the cheapest way to get in a M119 6.0 too.
I don't believe it was, at least nearly to the extent that it was on the 210. Though I have seen A FEW situations where 124 perches failed, the overall rust issues on the 124 are miniscule as compared to the 210. This is particularly so in Europe.
W210 spring perch failures are not uncommon in salty areas (New England region of USA, for example).
W124 spring perch failures are as rare as Gerry's proverbial rocking horse poop.
That's my opinion and observation, as well. Though the 210 was a pretty big sea change from the 124 in terms of the electronics and electrical system, as well as the beginning of the "modularity" era of MBs, where pre-manufactured assemblies were installed onto the car, whereas with the W124 (and preceding generations) individual components were still replaceable throughout the car.
This necessitates with the 210, having to buy a more expensive complete assembly when a single part/component within it fails, whereas with the 124, it is possible to obtain and replace an individual item much of the time. This has only gotten worse since the 210, of course, and is not something that is specific to Mercedes-Benz cars. It is endemic to the entire automotive industry.
An example of this would be the W210 center console window switches -- for the W210, it's a complete module that has all four switches, plus the child lock switch, plus the mirror joystick, in one switch assembly with a green circuit board underpinning it. On the W124, you can and do replace each of the window switches, child lock switch, and mirror control joystick individually -- each of them plugs into a plastic frame in the console.
If one W210 switch fails, it's a $210 (MB list, ~$160 discounted) proposition for the whole damn module. If one W124 window switch fails, it's a $32.50 proposition ($25 discounted) for a single MB window switch. $10-15 each if you want to aftermarket.
With the 211, it's even worse. You have an oval switch assembly in the driver's door that includes all four window switches in a single module. And so on......
W124 window switch
W210 window switch
W211 window switch
Here's my vin: WDBJF74J1YB071754 somewhere around 416,500 miles currently. It's in my 'daily driver, winter beater' rotation. No rust (california car). My son has been driving it for the past couple weeks, it's also the car that gets loaned out to friends and family when someone is in town, or needs a car for a bit.
The W210 was the first Mercedes model that used water based paint. I don't think that Mercedes Benz used the correct sealer at the time and they were very prone to rust. The revised model from 2000-2002 was better and I think the body was dipped. I had the spring perch issue back in 2004 in my 97 E420. The car had spent the first 5 years of its life in Chicago before I bought it in Texas. The problem came up shortly after I had moved to Atlanta. That was when I first met Jono who inspected it and suggested I call MB corporate and bitch them out. They fixed it under warranty (thanks @jhodg5ck ).
The car was still pretty new at the time so I don't think it was a well known problem when it happened to mine. I talked about it at the time to my MB psychotherapy group (the forums), and was told that the W124 had the same issues. From what I gather from observation, every new MB model from the mid 90's to the mid 2000's has 70's style rust problems. Whether it be a W210, W211, W220, C208, C209 etc. The condition of some cars that I would see during my UK visits was shocking.
Thanks! I see the last recorded mileage is 411,391 miles.
I recently came across VIN WDBJF74H7XA934753 which had a reported 1,012 miles and sold for $43k, that got me thinking on what's out there.
I've looked at individual rare color cars which are mostly gone but wanted to scale this up and scrape search result images, title issuances and last reported mileages for all the US cars.
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