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$104.86 ?

Is paying $100 for a full tank of gas deterring your driving behavior?

  • Sadly, yes...

    Votes: 9 47.4%
  • Hell no man, STFU

    Votes: 10 52.6%

  • Total voters
    19
GasBuddy.com‘s De Haan told the SFGATE on Monday that price forecasting indicates Californians should see a slowdown in the gas prices rising this week. As to when a drop in these prices could occur, De Haan says he does not know. He predicted that California’s average gas price, currently $5.67, could be near $6.00 with more and more stations charging $8.00 for a gallon of regular gas.


I got dumber reading the section in red.

A little ironic that at some places (with high population) in California gasoline is significantly mores expensive than in Kyiv, near which most (likely all) fuel bases are destroyed. A gallon of 95 (US 91) octane is $6,5

I am not very familiar with the oil industry. However, as a California resident who suffers the pain of high costs at the pumps, I also get a view of the industry from an outside-CA-person's perspective, specifically from St. Louis. I receive an annual letter from a gentleman whose services I retain, and he has some observations about refining capacity in the USA (see attached). The short of it all is that US refining CAPACITY has increased a lot in the past four decades, but the NUMBER of refiners have decreased. In addition, public policy and tax code have encouraged refiners to produce "Renewable Diesel," which, once a refinery starts producing such, is unable to produce other products like gasoline or asphalt.

So, in sum, in the last four decades, US CAPACITY for refining GASOLINE has decreased.

IMG_9859.jpeg
 
partially filled the hybrid @25 bucks Thur, partially filled the 500e @70 bucks on Sat, and the black series all the way up @69 bucks once the fuel gauge light went on on Sunday

its a 30 dollar fill for my hybrid (a flat 20 was good before), the 500e is 90 bucks, and my clk bs... ill lyk on saturday. the latter are weekend cars anyways, i dont use any of them if the weather isnt great
 
I wonder how much EV adoption is required to decrease gasoline demand? So all the west coast tree hugging libs can subsidize my fuel hungry, E500, 964, and M2. By the way, I am a west coast tree hugging lib except for my car collection. And airplane use, and occasional wood burning stove use. :)
 
I wonder how much EV adoption is required to decrease gasoline demand? So all the west coast tree hugging libs can subsidize my fuel hungry, E500, 964, and M2. By the way, I am a west coast tree hugging lib except for my car collection. And airplane use, and occasional wood burning stove use. :)
In a perhaps not too distant future, I can see you in front of a Troika, begging for mercy and admitting to your wrong ways. But you won't find a smidgen of single sympathizing semi-smile on their faces. The future is bright though 😁
 
Don't give a $#it!
If I was worried about the cost of a tank of gas, I'd drive a Toyota Corolla instead of a 30 year old V8 Mercedes-Benz.
It isn't about a cost per se for most members commenting on this thread, but rather about the underlining causes and general implications for the economy and the majority of their countrymen. A median income for a US is $60k something for a household and it's a single/two -story country with no mass transit
 
In SoCal there is not much choice. Almost everybody commutes fairly long distances to work. My shortest commute (of 22 miles one way) was my last job before that it was 33 miles. Only choice is to drive an EV, Hybrid, an occasional hydrogen, or natural gas or some kind of gasoline operated vehicle.

The freeways around here are becoming an all day zoo in every direction. There is no let up unless you commute at 3:00AM. Most cars including my KIA are run on gasoline. I could count maybe 10 or 12 Teslas going to work every day but one hell of a lot of gasoline operated cars.

PS: For me the commute is over “Thank God”$6.00 gal would have eaten up a lot of salary.
 
Today my lowest price filling station is $6.19 for mid grade Arco:mad:. This is starting to suck and blow.

PS: After I filled up I went to VOTE everybody I could “Out of Office”:jono:
 

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Just be prepared. Prices are going to go up much more before they come down. From what I’m reading, we are looking at least a couple of years if not more of elevated gas prices.

It will be interesting to see what people do. In the 1970s, people responded by buying more fuel efficient cars.

I am not sure this time around that the current stated goal of the White House, to get many more people to buy electric cars, is going to happen.

I continue to have difficulty imagining a future with battery-powered big rigs, construction equipment, boat engines, ships, etc.

Can you imagine a battery-powered Union Pacific locomotive rumbling by, pulling a mile-long train?

I can’t, either. Typical locomotives have a range of hundreds of miles. I can’t imagine them stopping all the time to recharge their batteries.

There was a VERY telling article in last Saturday’s Wall Street Journal authored by a woman who did a cross country trip in an electric car, and the many challenges and HUGE stress she faced in finding charging stations.

And the varying speeds at charging stations. Some stations charge 80% in 30 minutes. Others took overnight (8+ hours) to charge a car, necessitating major trip delays.

She talked about being on electric "fumes" because she couldn’t find stations local to where she was.

Who needs all that stress?
 
Don't know if this is true, but a friend sent this three days ago.

"Those 350kw diesel generators popping up everywhere burn 12 gallons/hour to charge an EV, and it takes three hours to charge a car to travel 200 miles.

That's 36 gallons of diesel to travel 200 miles!
Would you buy a car that only gets 5.6mpg?
Wonder who pays for all that diesel?"

Our E500Es get three times BETTER mpg.

Wouldn't it be better to buy an old Mercedes diesel?
 
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Locally, Sheetz is aggressively pricing their fuels. Generally +/- penny or two of Costco/Sams. No other brands are doing this. And for premium this is at least $0.50 to $0.70 delta.

Anyone else seeing this in their area?

I filled the LS400 yesterday at Sheetz, which isn't something I typically do. I'm either using the commercial fuel depot or Sams, which is 15 miles away but I'm going there anyway for groceries. The Sheetz is on a major intersection with Exxon and Costco. I paid $5.14, Costco was $5.17 and Exxon was $5.99.
 
Separately, I rented a Toyota Camry on a one-way rental from Annapolis up to Point Pleasant, NJ on Sat/Sun to go and pick up my new boat. The Camry only used 5 gallons to go about 200 miles -- that is around 40 MPG. 98% of it was freeway driving, and I'd say it was at reasonable speeds around 65-75 MPH the whole way. Still, double the mileage of my E500 that I drove on the same route, albeit at moderately higher speed.

Transiting the boat down on Sunday from New Jersey to Annapolis, it was a trip of around 200 nautical miles, give or take. Three fuel stops along the way, in Atlantic City, NJ; Cape May, NJ; and Bear, DE (in the Chesapeake & Delaware Canal). Total fuel cost was around $650 to do that trip.

The fuel burn rate (best I could calculate it) was around 1.2 nautical miles per gallon at speeds ranging from 15 to 30 knots, depending on the water along the way. Offshore in the Atlantic, the waves ranged 3-6 feet, and it was a decently calm day. Once I rounded Cape May, and got into the Delaware Bay, things got much calmer (1-2 foot waves), and I could cruise at a MUCH higher speed in the 25-30 knot range.

Atlantic City, NJ, coming into Kammerman's Marina for a $250+ fuel stop:
IMG_6908.JPG


Here is the Wall Street Journal article I mentioned above.

I Rented an Electric Car for a Four-Day Road Trip.
I Spent More Time Charging It Than I Did Sleeping.​

Our writer drove from New Orleans to Chicago and back to test the feasibility of taking a road trip in an EV. She wouldn’t soon do it again.

I thought it would be fun.

That’s what I told my friend Mack when I asked her to drive with me from New Orleans to Chicago and back in an electric car.

I’d made long road trips before, surviving popped tires, blown headlights and shredded wheel-well liners in my 2008 Volkswagen Jetta. I figured driving the brand-new Kia EV6 I’d rented would be a piece of cake.

If, that is, the public-charging infrastructure cooperated. We wouldn’t be the first to test it. Sales of pure and hybrid plug-ins doubled in the U.S. last year to 656,866—over 4% of the total market, according to database EV-volumes. More than half of car buyers say they want their next car to be an EV, according to recent Ernst & Young Global Ltd. data.

By the Numbers​

Our reporter’s four-day, three-night EV road trip included many charging stops, little sleep—and less junk food than you might expect
  • Miles driven: 2,013
  • Number of charges: 14
  • Total charging cost: $175
  • Hours spent waiting to charge: 18
  • Hours of sleep: 16
  • Calories of junk food consumed (estimated): 1,465
  • Giant chicken statues passed: 1
Oh—and we aimed to make the 2,000-mile trip in just under four days so Mack could make her Thursday-afternoon shift as a restaurant server.

Less money, more time​

Given our battery range of up to 310 miles, I plotted a meticulous route, splitting our days into four chunks of roughly 7½-hours each. We’d need to charge once or twice each day and plug in near our hotel overnight.

The PlugShare app—a user-generated map of public chargers—showed thousands of charging options between New Orleans and Chicago. But most were classified as Level 2, requiring around 8 hours for a full charge.

While we’d be fine overnight, we required fast chargers during the days. ChargePoint Holdings Inc., which manufactures and maintains many fast-charging stations, promises an 80% charge in 20 to 30 minutes. Longer than stopping for gas—but good for a bite or bathroom break.

The government is spending $5 billion to build a nationwide network of fast chargers, which means thousands more should soon dot major highways. For now, though, fast chargers tend to be located in parking lots of suburban shopping malls, or tethered to gas stations or car dealerships.

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We hit the road with high hopes. Photo: Rachel Wolfe

Cost varies widely based on factors such as local electricity prices and charger brands. Charging at home tends to be cheaper than using a public charger, though some businesses offer free juice as a perk to existing customers or to entice drivers to come inside while they wait.

Over four days, we spent $175 on charging. We estimated the equivalent cost for gas in a Kia Forte would have been $275, based on the AAA average national gas price for May 19. That $100 savings cost us many hours in waiting time.

But that’s not the whole story.

Charging nuances​

New Orleans, our starting point, has exactly zero fast chargers, according to PlugShare. As we set out, one of the closest is at a Harley-Davidson dealership in Slidell, La., about 40 minutes away. So we use our Monday-morning breakfast stop to top off there on the way out of town.

But when we tick down 15% over 35 miles? Disconcerting. And the estimated charging time after plugging in? Even more so. This “quick charge” should take 5 minutes, based on our calculations. So why does the dashboard tell us it will take an hour?

“Maybe it’s just warming up,” I say to Mack. “Maybe it’s broken?” she says.

Over Egg McMuffins at McDonald’s, we check Google. Chargers slow down when the battery is 80% full, the State of Charge YouTube channel tells us.

Worried about time, we decide to unplug once we return to the car, despite gaining a measly 13% in 40 minutes.

When ‘fast’ isn’t fast​

Our real troubles begin when we can’t find the wall-mounted charger at the Kia dealership in Meridian, Miss., the state’s seventh-largest city and hometown of country-music legend Jimmie Rodgers.


When I ask a mechanic working on an SUV a few feet away for help, he says he doesn’t know anything about the machine and points us inside. At the front desk, the receptionist asks if we’ve checked with a technician and sends us back outside.

Not many people use the charger, the mechanic tells us when we return. We soon see why. Once up and running, our dashboard tells us a full charge, from 18% to 100%, will take 3-plus hours.

It turns out not all “fast chargers” live up to the name. The biggest variable, according to State of Charge, is how many kilowatts a unit can churn out in an hour. To be considered “fast,” a charger must be capable of about 24 kW. The fastest chargers can pump out up to 350. Our charger in Meridian claims to meet that standard, but it has trouble cracking 20.

“Even among DC fast chargers, there are different level chargers with different charging speeds,” a ChargePoint spokeswoman says.


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A lot in Meridian, Miss., was filled with rusted-out fuel pumps and gas station signs. Photo: Rachel Wolfe


Worse, it is a 30-minute walk to downtown restaurants. We set off on foot, passing warehouses with shattered windows and an overgrown lot filled with rusted fuel pumps and gas-station signs. Clambering over a flatcar of a stalled freight train, we half-wish we could hop a boxcar to Chicago.

Missed reservations​

By the time we reach our next station, at a Mercedes-Benz dealership outside Birmingham, Ala., we’ve already missed our dinner reservations in Nashville—still 200 miles away.

Here, at least, the estimated charging time is only an hour—and we get to make use of two automatic massage chairs while we wait.
Salesman Kurt Long tells us the dealership upgraded its chargers to 54-kW models a few weeks earlier when the 2022 Mercedes EQS-Class arrived.

“Everyone’s concern is how far can the cars go on a charge,” he says. He adds that he would trade in his car for an EV tomorrow if he could afford the $102,000 price tag. “Just because it would be convenient for me because I work here,” he says. “Otherwise, I don’t know if I would just yet.”

A customer who has just bought a new BMW says he’d consider an EV one day—if the price drops.


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The giant chicken statue in Ardmore, Tenn.Photo: Rachel Wolfe


“You remember when the microwave came out? Or DVD players?” says Dennis Boatwright, a 58-year-old tree surgeon. “When you first get them the prices were real high, but the older they are, the cheaper they get.”

When we tell him about our trip, he asks if we’ll make it to Chicago.

“We’re hoping,” I say.

“I’m hoping, too,” he says.

A giant chicken​

After the Birmingham suburbs, our journey takes us along nightmarish, dark mountain roads. We stop for snacks at a gas station featuring a giant chicken in a chef’s costume. We lean heavily on cruise control, which helps conserve battery life by reducing inadvertent acceleration and deceleration. We are beat when we finally stumble into our Nashville hotel at 12:30 a.m.

To get back on schedule, we are up and out early, amid pouring rain, writing the previous day off as a warm-up, an electric-car hazing.
For the most part, we are right. Thanks to vastly better charging infrastructure on this leg, all our stops last less than an hour.

It isn’t all smooth sailing, though. At one point we find ourselves wandering through a Kroger, sopping wet, in search of coffee after wrestling with a particularly finicky charger in the rain. By this point, not once have we managed to back in close enough to reach the pump, or gotten the stiff cord hooked around the right way on the first try.

In the parking lot of a Clarksville, Ind., Walmart, we barely have time for lunch, as the Electrify America charging station fills up our battery in about 25 minutes, as advertised.

The woman charging next to us describes a harrowing recent trip in her Volkswagen ID.4. Deborah Carrico, 65, had to be towed twice while driving between her Louisville, Ky., apartment and Boulder, Colo., where her daughter was getting married.


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Deborah Carrico had to be towed twice during a recent EV road trip.Photo: Rachel Wolfe

“My daughter was like, ‘You’ve lost it mom; just fly,’ ” the retired hairdresser says. She says she felt safer in a car during the pandemic—but also vulnerable when waiting at remote charging stations alone late at night. “But if someone is going to get me, they’re going to have to really fight me,” she says, wielding her key between her fingers like a weapon.

While she loves embracing the future, she says, her family has been giving her so much pushback that she is considering trading the car in and going back to gas.

Smiling at gas prices​

At another Walmart, in Indianapolis, we meet Bill Stempowski as he waits for his Ford Mustang Mach-E to charge. A medical-equipment operations manager, 45, he drives all over the Midwest from his home in LaGrange, Ohio, for work.

In nine months, he says, he’s put 30,000 miles on the car and figures he’s saved thousands on gas. “I smile as the gas-sign prices tick up,” he says. That day, his charge comes to about $15, similar to what we are paying to fill up.


?width=1260&height=647.jpgScenes from a road trip.
Photo: CHAYA HOWELL/WALL STREET JOURNAL, RACHEL WOLFE


We pull into Chicago at 9 p.m., having made the planned 7½-hour trip in 12 hours. Not bad, we agree.

‘What if we just risk it?’​

Leaving Chicago after a full night of sleep, I tell Mack I might write only about the journey’s first half. “The rest will just be the same,” I predict, as thunder claps ominously overhead.

“Don’t say that!” she says. “We’re at the mercy of this goddamn spaceship.” She still hasn’t mastered the lie-flat door handles after three days.

As intense wind and rain whip around us, the car cautions, “Conditions have not been met” for its cruise-control system. Soon the battery starts bleeding life. What began as a 100-mile cushion between Chicago and our planned first stop in Effingham, Ill., has fallen to 30.

“If it gets down to 10, we’re stopping at a Level 2,” Mack says as she frantically searches PlugShare.

We feel defeated pulling into a Nissan Mazda dealership in Mattoon, Ill. “How long could it possibly take to charge the 30 miles we need to make it to the next fast station?” I wonder.

Three hours. It takes 3 hours.

I begin to lose my mind as I set out in search of gas-station doughnuts, the wind driving sheets of rain into my face.

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Illustration: Koren Shadmi

Seated atop a pyramid of Smirnoff Ice 12-packs, Little Debbie powdered sugar sprinkled down the pajama shirt I haven’t removed in three days, I phone Mack. “What if we just risk it?” I say. “Maybe we’ll make it there on electrical fumes.”

“That’s a terrible idea!” she says, before asking me to bring back a bag of nuts.

‘Charge, Urgently!’

Back on the road, we can’t even make it 200 miles on a full charge en route to Miner, Mo. Clearly, tornado warnings and electric cars don’t mix. The car’s highway range actually seems worse than its range in cities.

Indeed, highway driving doesn’t benefit as much from the car’s regenerative-braking technology—which uses energy generated in slowing down to help a car recharge its battery—Kia spokesman James Bell tells me later. He suspects our car is the less-expensive EV6 model with a range not of 310 miles, as listed on Turo, but 250. He says he can’t be sure what model we were driving without physically inspecting the car.

“As we have all learned over many years of experience with internal combustion engine vehicles, factors such as average highway speed, altitude changes, and total cargo weight can all impact range, whether derived from a tank of gasoline or a fully charged battery,” he says.

To save power, we turn off the car’s cooling system and the radio, unplug our phones and lower the windshield wipers to the lowest possible setting while still being able to see. Three miles away from the station, we have one mile of estimated range.

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Sliding into a charging station on electric fumes.Photo: Rachel Wolfe


“Charge, Urgently!” the dashboard urges. “We know!” we respond.

At zero miles, we fly screeching into a gas-station parking lot. A trash can goes flying and lands with a clatter to greet us. Dinner is beef jerky, our plans to dine at a kitschy beauty shop-turned-restaurant in Memphis long gone.
Then we start to argue. Mack reminds me she needs to be back in time for her shift the next day. There’s no way we’ll make it, I tell her.

SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS​

What factors could persuade you to consider an electric vehicle? Join the conversation below.
“Should we just drive straight through to New Orleans?” I finally ask desperately, even as I realize I’ve failed to map out the last 400 miles of our route.
To scout our options, Mack calls a McDonald’s in Winona, Miss., that is home to one of the few fast chargers along our route back to New Orleans. PlugShare tells us the last user has reported the charger broken. An employee who picks up reasonably responds that given the rain, she’ll pass on checking to see if an error message is flashing across the charger’s screen.

Home, sweet $4-a-gallon home​

At our hotel, we decide 4 hours of sleep is better than none, and set our alarms for 4 a.m.
We figure 11 hours should be plenty for a trip that would normally take half as long. That is, if absolutely everything goes right.
Miraculously, it does. At the McDonald’s where we stop for our first charge at 6 a.m., the charger zaps to life. The body shop and parts department director at Rogers-Dabbs Chevrolet in Brandon, Miss., comes out to unlock the charger for us with a keycard at 10 a.m. We’re thrilled we waited for business hours, realizing we can only charge while he’s there.
We pull into New Orleans 30 minutes before Mack’s shift starts—exhausted and grumpy.
The following week, I fill up my Jetta at a local Shell station. Gas is up to $4.08 a gallon.
I inhale deeply. Fumes never smelled so sweet.


The Electric-Vehicle Road Test
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The Electric-Vehicle Road TestPlay video: The Electric-Vehicle Road Test
Dozens of new electric-vehicle models are expected to arrive at dealerships in the next few years. We followed eight Wall Street Journal reporters in four countries to see if they, and the world, are ready to make the switch.
 
Just be prepared. Prices are going to go up much more before they come down. From what I’m reading, we are looking at least a couple of years if. Or more of elevated gas prices.

It will be interesting to see what people do. In the 1970s, people responded by buying more fuel efficient cars.

I am not sure this time around that the current stated goal of the White House, to get many more people to buy electric cars, is going to happen.

I continue to have difficulty imagining a future with battery-powered big rigs, construction equipment, boat engines, ships, etc.

Can you imagine a battery-powered Union Pacific locomotive rumbling by, pulling a mile-long train?
Indeed yes, but not Union Pacific. ;-). BNSF and Wabtec. Rail is an exceptionally efficient means of transport. The coefficient of friction for rail is typically between 0.35 and 0.5, whilst under extreme conditions it can fall to as low as 0.05. This is many times less than the friction experienced through deformation of truck tires. From a study by the DOT: “Rail fuel efficiency ranged from 196 to 1,179 ton-miles per gallon while truck fuel efficiency ranged from 84 to 167 ton-miles per gallon”


That BEV locomotive pilot is really cool. BTW Wabtec is a spinoff of GE Transportation plus the old Westinghouse. BNSF, you’ll remember, is 100% owned by Berkshire Hathaway, the company helmed by Warren Buffet. BH is muuuuuch more forward thinking than many people realize.



I can’t, either. Typical locomotives have a range of hundreds of miles I can’t imagine them stopping all the time to recharge their batteries.

There was a VERY telling article in last Saturday’s Wall Street Joirnal authored by a woman who did a cross country trip in an electric car, and the many challenges and HUGE stress she faced in finding charging stations.

And the varying speeds at charging stations. Some coins charge 80% in 30 minutes. Others took overnight (8+ hours) to charge her car, necessitating major trip delays.

She talked about being at 1-2% charge because she couldn’t find stations local to where she was.

Who needs all that stress?
It seems to me that a BEV car in a cross country trip is an extreme use case. I would never take a BEV car for such a trip precisely to avoid all that hassle. As well, BEVs are still too expensive Wrt intial cost.

That said for real world use, Hybrid cars do not have 1/10000 the s3x appeal of BEVs but I can see that are a great stepping stone and will be around for years to come.

I bought my first prius almost 20 years ago when I was still in my 20s. It was slow, unstable on the freeway, and it was a shitty driving experience. Now as I approach my 5th decade I am more mellow and I am so very much enjoying my latest Toyota hybrid CUV Venza for daily driving. It gets nearly 40MPG and as the basis for the Lexus NX, it is smooth and quiet. It has ample power for daily driving, and also has AWD and holds lots of cargo. I bought it in 2021 for 29K.

The perfect BEV is off in the future, but Toyota hybrids today allow you to shrug off pain at the pumps and drive across the country worry free.

Don't know if this is true, but a friend sent this three days ago.

"Those 350kw diesel generators popping up everywhere burn 12 gallons/hour to charge an EV, and it takes three hours to charge a car to travel 200 miles.

That's 36 gallons of diesel to travel 200 miles!
Would you buy a car that only gets 5.6mpg?
Wonder who pays for all that diesel?"

Why would anyone do this? Why use an ICE diesel generator, which is like guessing maybe 35% efficient to charge a car? 65% of the energy is wasted as heat. Use PV solar panels on the roof plus batteries if you reeeeeaaaaaallly want to charge a BEV every day w/o being tied to the grid. Seems the generator is the wrong tool for the job.

Our E500Es get three times BETTER mpg.

Wouldn't it be better to buy an old Mercedes diesel?
 
ABSOLUTELY no question that rail is much much more efficient than truck/big-rig transportation. Specifically for long-distance / cross-country transportation of bulk goods. However, big-rigs will ALWAYS be required for "last mile" delivery from train terminals of anything transported by rail.

Say what you will, but diesel-electric (traditional) locomotives are going to be around for many, many decades to come, as they have been since the 1940s. The power to fuel electric locomotive batteries has to be generated somehow, as well. That needs to be factored into the calculations -- not just the "on-road" running costs.

And yes, I speak as someone with extensive experience on and around the railroads :) As shown here. And here. And here......etc.
 
And yes, I speak as someone with extensive experience on and around the railroads :) As shown here. And here. And here......etc.
My last memorable train ride was from New Orleans to San Diego via LA in 1960. It was long and tedious ride even with first class accommodations. When it was over shear terror enveloped me for the first month of “Marine Bootcamp” in San Diego. I haven’t set foot on a train since.:jono:

PS: That gal in the WSJ article didn’t look so enthusiastic in the last pic of the article.

lol
 
PS: That gal in the WSJ article didn’t look so enthusiastic in the last pic of the article.

lol
Not an uncommon feeling for EV drivers, when faced with the reality of use cases outside of their urban/suburb "bubble."
 
Eugh, that road trip sounds like a disaster. The non-Tesla charging network is finally getting better (more stations, more capability) but frankly they still suck as that author found out - way too much down time, lack of integration to vehicles, etc. Had they done this trip in a $55k 330 mi Model 3, they'd just put the route into nav and it'd calculate all the stops for them. As Tesla owns the stations and the cars, they have a vested interest in making sure they are actually working reliably, and integrated into the car - in my many road trips I occasionally find one stall in a station not working, but there are always 8 to 10 others there I can use, and whenever I've returned the faulty unit is back up and running. Otherwise, it's hassle free: the stations are clearly marked and integrated into the nav, the data on their usage and status is live, and the handshake/plug in process is totally frictionless - I just plug in and walk away. If I'm anxious I might check the app on my phone to make sure it's charging at the expected rate, but I've built up enough confidence I don't need to anymore. The new Model S is even better (longer range, faster charging speed). That said, I've also had my share of close calls. In 2013 I went from a friends in Marin to Santa Cruz over a notoriously twisty set of mountain roads and barely made it back home. Now that route has 150kW + chargers every 10 or 15 miles. In 2020, I went to Death Valley and barely made it over Towne's Pass to our next charging stop. At the 6,000 ft peak our range was actually showing negative by the time we'd arrive at the next station, but I did some quick math on how much we'd recover on the descent and we ended up being fine. Good ole m*g*h, never lets you down.

It's certainly possible for the gov't to duplicate such a system but I have little faith they will. Healthcare.gov 2.0 seems more likely.
 
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Rail is an exceptionally efficient means of transport. The coefficient of friction for rail is typically between 0.35 and 0.5, whilst under extreme conditions it can fall to as low as 0.05. This is many times less than the friction experienced through deformation of truck tires. From a study by the DOT: “Rail fuel efficiency ranged from 196 to 1,179 ton-miles per gallon while truck fuel efficiency ranged from 84 to 167 ton-miles per gallon”
You are killing with this sexy, naughty talk 😁🤩. Wish my wife would talk to me like that during love-making 😁

I bought it in 2021 for 29K.
Was that a superb deal, or did you get the base model? Wife's company announced an iminnent return of the plankton to the office, so we've began to contemplate getting a 2nd vehicle. Venza is flickering on my radar, but making the choice is a torture.

Since getting rid of the 2nd vehicle last December, we've been renting for the salt season and then for trips with relatives that have been sheltering with us. I'm currently renting a car while my car is down due to a broken spring and it's my 8th rental this year. So I've tried 10 or so different cars (I switched the car a few times within the rental period out if boredom). It's also fun to spend 30 minutes at a docile Cleveland airport Avis rental car lot, refreshing car choice via the app and scoring a brand new car a class or two above the booked full size, for free. Works every time! Anyways, the sad discovery is that I really like minivans :facepalm:. They will like a long-haul 1st class on the airplane inside in front seats, and business class in the 2nd row. Particularly the new Sienna, although Odyssey and Pacifica are nice-enough too. So a minivan is $50k. What else could we get for $50k, and this where the torture begins. Then you mind starts throwing +$10k and the torture becomes unbearable, and I'm telling wife that a subjective 10 year old Corolla is a bees knees and..... f..k the world 😁

So, how do you like that Venza? Why did you not get a hybrid Camry instead, or something?
 
Locally, Sheetz is aggressively pricing their fuels. Generally +/- penny or two of Costco/Sams. No other brands are doing this.
Not all, but some Sheetz here do the same. One, actually often cheaper on both, premium and regular compare to BJ's and Costco by a penny or two...
 
You are killing with this sexy, naughty talk 😁🤩. Wish my wife would talk to me like that during love-making 😁


Was that a superb deal, or did you get the base model? Wife's company announced an iminnent return of the plankton to the office, so we've began to contemplate getting a 2nd vehicle. Venza is flickering on my radar, but making the choice is a torture.........So, how do you like that Venza? Why did you not get a hybrid Camry instead, or something?
I love it. In fact, both my wife and I love it. She needles me for not having the foresight to purchase TWO of them while we could. We got a Venza instead of a Camry cuz my wife wanted something taller. I feel that it is a perfect MVP - minimum viable product. Meaning it has and does everything I require a daily driver to do, and nothing more. Therefore, I'm not paying for anything I don't need. Yes, I got the base model. No leather, no capacitive buttons, no photochromatic sunroof, no extra chrome accents, no JBL sound system, etc.

It is comfortable, safe, AWD, has enough power (instant electric torque a low speeds makes up for a lot), smooth, and has great mileage. It is basically a slightly more luxe version of the RAV4 Hybrid. The RAV4 is Toyota's best selling vehicle these days - not the Camry. So since the Avalon was a slightly more luxe version of the Camry, think of the Venza as a slightly more luxe version of the RAV4. It has 65 series tires on 18" wheels, make curb scrapes a thing of rarity.

To that I installed a front facing parking/bumper camera (because the base model doesn't come with this), added Canadian market mudflaps, installed a rear view mirror LCD dashcam, installed Japan-market foglights, and put in wireless car play. Done. I look forward to driving this for 10+ years...... unless my kid totals it when my kid starts driving. :)

Jason Cammisa has an accurate writeup on this:


1654750787227.png

Since getting rid of the 2nd vehicle last December, we've been renting for the salt season and then for trips with relatives that have been sheltering with us. I'm currently renting a car while my car is down due to a broken spring and it's my 8th rental this year. So I've tried 10 or so different cars (I switched the car a few times within the rental period out if boredom). It's also fun to spend 30 minutes at a docile Cleveland airport Avis rental car lot, refreshing car choice via the app and scoring a brand new car a class or two above the booked full size, for free. Works every time!
Ohhhh I know what you mean. I used to travel every week for work for 5 years which meant I got a rental from Hertz every week .... I would sit on the plane and refresh the thing on the Hertz app, seeing if I would get another rental. Eventually I ended up driving pretty much damn near everything Hertz has to offer.

WORST - 2010-ish Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder with the 4AT transmission
BIGGEST LETDOWN - 2015-ish Mercedes C-Class
MOST IMPRESSIVE - the milled aluminum HVAC buttons in the Audi A4.

Anyways, the sad discovery is that I really like minivans :facepalm:. They will like a long-haul 1st class on the airplane inside in front seats, and business class in the 2nd row. Particularly the new Sienna, although Odyssey and Pacifica are nice-enough too. So a minivan is $50k. What else could we get for $50k, and this where the torture begins. Then you mind starts throwing +$10k and the torture becomes unbearable, and I'm telling wife that a subjective 10 year old Corolla is a bees knees and..... f..k the world 😁
I don't know if I love minivans but I agree the Pacifica is pretty good! I haven't driven an Odyssey lately. That said, as I am not Daddy Warbucks, I have a hard time spending 40K on transportation that depreciates. 50K for me would be NFW. But that's just me.
 
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I wonder how much EV adoption is required to decrease gasoline demand? So all the west coast tree hugging libs can subsidize my fuel hungry, E500, 964, and M2. By the way, I am a west coast tree hugging lib except for my car collection. And airplane use, and occasional wood burning stove use. :)
Add me to that club except I want my cleaning supplies to work if that means stockpiling red color, ozone creating brake cleaner….
 
I have a hard time spending 40K on transportation that depreciates.
I totally hear you. Anything above "Honda Accord" is really a frivolity. If the car would be heavily used, for several hours daily, racking up miles - I could see getting something more pleasant. For a light commute on uncluttered freeway and a Costco run, prudently it's has to be an MVP.

I've seen a few YouTube reviews and read some articles. I get exactly what type of car Venza is: isolating, unobtrusive, comfortable, economical, good to jump curbs in, and who it's for, and that's why I've noticed it.

What color is yours?
 
I totally hear you. Anything above "Honda Accord" is really a frivolity. If the car would be heavily used, for several hours daily, racking up miles - I could see getting something more pleasant. For a light commute on uncluttered freeway and a Costco run, prudently it's has to be an MVP.
Indeed, had my wife not required that we get a taller vehicle, I would have most likely purchased a Honda Accord Hybrid - great fuel sipping mileage (mid 40s MPG), unlimited range on long trips (because it is a hybrid), great driving characteristics, refinement, and probably could get it for around 30K USD. I'd take the additional USD 30K saved over buying a BEV and this time and do other stuff with it instead of putting 60K total in a depreciating transportation tool.

I've seen a few YouTube reviews and read some articles. I get exactly what type of car Venza is: isolating, unobtrusive, comfortable, economical, good to jump curbs in, and who it's for, and that's why I've noticed it.

What color is yours?
It is the blue-grey color. I find the styling to slightly pleasing. It is not as offensively styled as other Toyotas.

IMG_9950.jpeg
 
My brother and his growing fam are in the market for a new vehicle and his wife is pro minivan, which I firmly agree w. The only advantage a Telluride or other CUV offers is in style and ability to tow >3500 lbs. In all other cases the van wins, although not enough offer AWD these days which is a shame. Sliding doors are such a no brainer in a family car, fold flate 3rd row seats are now standard everywhere, and the driving experience (NVH, ride, turning circle) is amazing. Many of them now credibly get >30 mpg on the highway and offer hybrids so it's such a no brainer.
It seems like the market is catching on too, finally. Even a 10 year old Sienna w 75k mi is (no joke) >$23k. Unreal.

 
My brother and his growing fam are in the market for a new vehicle and his wife is pro minivan, which I firmly agree w. The only advantage a Telluride or other CUV offers is in style and ability to tow >3500 lbs. In all other cases the van wins, although not enough offer AWD these days which is a shame. Sliding doors are such a no brainer in a family car, fold flate 3rd row seats are now standard everywhere, and the driving experience (NVH, ride, turning circle) is amazing. Many of them now credibly get >30 mpg on the highway and offer hybrids so it's such a no brainer.
It seems like the market is catching on too, finally. Even a 10 year old Sienna w 75k mi is (no joke) >$23k. Unreal.

I think overland editions of minivans will be big soon. This one is aftermarket - but imagine if Toyota took the current AWD hybrid sienna which currently gets 36 mpg in both city and hwy and made a TRD version of it with more butch wheels. Maybe it would get a bit less mpg, but I bet it would sell like hotcakes. Aftermarket prev generation version shown below.

1654793422470.png
 
I find the styling to slightly pleasing. It is not as offensively styled as other Toyotas.
Yeah, exactly! This specific Toyota styling is rather pleasing vs offensive

My brother and his growing fam are in the market for a new vehicle and his wife is pro minivan, which I firmly agree w. The only advantage a Telluride or other CUV offers is in style and ability to tow >3500 lbs. In all other cases the van wins, although not enough offer AWD these days which is a shame. Sliding doors are such a no brainer in a family car, fold flate 3rd row seats are now standard everywhere, and the driving experience (NVH, ride, turning circle) is amazing. Many of them now credibly get >30 mpg on the highway and offer hybrids so it's such a no brainer.
It seems like the market is catching on too, finally. Even a 10 year old Sienna w 75k mi is (no joke) >$23k. Unreal.

Yes, minivans are awesome. But specifically for my family even a 4-seater (let alone 5) car will suffice. I have 2 children (4 and 1yo). Myself, wife and them can do a Costco/Walmart run comfortably even in my W124, which is small car in today's day. A 4-5 seater with a more spacious cabin is really all we need in a 2nd car. Accord, Venza, and so forth are fitting here. They should be quieter, nibbler, and more rigid (structurally) than the minivans. As I see it, a minivan is really fitting and appropriate for when one has 3 and more children.

The things that all 3 minivans on the market lack are 1) acoustic comfort package (acoustic glass all around, extra sound deadening), 2) adaptive dampers. All 3 are boomy towards the rear and not the smoothest suspension-wise. Honda is the most pleasing to drive but feels dated. Sienna had a superb interior design/spaciousness, but rides a little busy and noisy. Pacifica is the most attractive-looking, but also rides busy, is noisy, and rides like the van that it is.

Based on reviews, I really like the concept of Mercedes GLB. It fulfilles what Venza is in a lot more wholesome and tastier package. But. $50+k for that proverbial easy freeway ride to/from work on the uncluttered Ohio freeways for 50 minutes a day and a single drive to a supermarket on the weekend won't be worth it as soon as the novelty wears off (9 months at most)

 
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Government Forecast Predicts Gas Will Drop Below $3 A Gallon Soon

DECEMBER 8, 2021

Prices at the pump have finally started to creep lower, and that trend should significantly accelerate in the coming months, according to new government forecasts.

The US Energy Information Administration said Tuesday the national average for regular gasoline will probably drop to $3.01 a gallon in January. For 2022, gas prices are expected to average $2.88.

That call is based on projections by the EIA for global oil production to increase more quickly than demand next year — especially given the emergence of the Omicron variant. This would be a reversal of the past 18 months, when output has been slow to meet surging demand as the world reopens from Covid-19.

The EIA, which is an arm of the Energy Department, cited risks that the new variant dents global consumption of energy and expectations for stronger supply from OPEC+, US shale oil companies and other major producers.

The agency also pointed to the impact from the US-led intervention in energy markets, highlighted by the biggest-ever release of barrels from America's Strategic Petroleum Reserve.
https://eb2.3lift.com/pass?tl_click...969896&ts=1654948899&bcud=2169&ss=20&cb=86755
Brent oil, the main driver of prices at the pump, is expected to average $70 a barrel in 2022. That's down from the average of $84 in October and $81 in November.

In Massachusetts, gas prices finally dropped this week - by two cents. The average price per gallon in the state is $3.40, a nickel higher than the national average.

"Consumers may be catching a break at the pump right now, but it's not for a very good reason," AAA Northeast's Mary Maguire said in a statement. "A potential COVID-19 induced economic slowdown hurts everyone and could prompt OPEC to slash production if oil prices drop too low."

The price of gas in Massachusetts is the same as it was a month ago, and $1.30 higher than at this time last year.

In November, gasoline prices averaged $3.39 nationally — the highest level since September 2014, the EIA said. But the agency expects that average to drop to $3.13 a gallon in December and continue falling next year.

Citing new travel restrictions imposed in the wake of the emergence of Omicron, the EIA downgraded its forecast for oil consumption for both the fourth quarter of this year and the first quarter of next.

"The potential effects of the spread of this variant are uncertain, which introduces downside risks to the global oil consumption forecast, particularly for jet fuel," the EIA said.

Oil prices crashed after Thanksgiving as investors feared Omicron would derail booming demand for energy. However, crude has since rebounded amid anecdotal evidence of milder symptoms from Omicron.

The EIA acknowledged the vast amount of uncertainty around the health crisis.

"This is a very complicated environment for the entire energy sector," Steve Nalley, acting administrator of the EIA, said in a statement. "Our forecasts for petroleum and other energy prices, consumption, and production could change significantly as we learn more about how responses to the Omicron variant could affect oil demand and the broader economy."
 
The huge price increase in gasoline prices is a world wide issue - not just a US phenomenon. It seems to be a combination of :

1) collapse of free energy trade (sanctions, war)
2) limited refining capacity
3) pandemic-driven pent up demand for travel
4) domestic active drilling rig count plummeting (but check out the graph - it has grown from 250 during the dark days of the pandemic to 750 ….)

I feel like it is really easy to blame a single factor, like blame the US president. In my view that feels good but is intellectually lazy. I do think the president can share in the blame, but directing all of our ire to a single factor is too simplistic.

Interesting piece in the WSJ. Real Time Economics: How High Will Gas Prices Climb?
 

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I don't think it too simplistic to blame the US government's war on fossil fuel as being intellectually lazy.

The fact remains that the US has plenty of oil, but, currently, our one party governance has purposely driven our costs up in order to force their "green new deal."
 
I don't think it too simplistic to blame the US government's war on fossil fuel as being intellectually lazy.

The fact remains that the US has plenty of oil, but, currently, our one party governance has purposely driven our costs up in order to force their "green new deal."
Hi,

I think you may have misinterpreted my thoughts. I contend that blaming just the US Govt for high gasoline prices (not to be confused with oil prices) is being intellectually lazy. That said, no doubt the current administration has embraced policies which can be construed as "anti-fossil-fuel."

In an earlier post, I posited that high worldwide gasoline prices are probably the result of:

1) collapse of free energy trade (sanctions, war)
2) limited refining capacity
3) pandemic-driven pent up demand for travel
4) domestic active drilling rig count plummeting (but check out the graph - it has grown from 250 during the dark days of the pandemic to 750 ….)

And I would venture that the current US Presidential administration is directly responsible for #4. #2 is a result of US govt policy that predates the current administration.
Just my opinion, which is not worth much. :)
 
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I highly value your opinion, and am thankful we have a platform to express our opinions without being canceled.

I will still drive my 500Es while I can afford to do so.
Likewise! Cancel Culture is a disease which shuts out differing viewpoints by painting others as morally bankrupt and viewing oneself as perpetually righteous.

I suspect it is a form of narcissism.
 
Hi,

I think you may have misinterpreted my thoughts. I contend that blaming just the US Govt for high gasoline prices (not to be confused with oil prices) is being intellectually lazy. That said, no doubt the current administration has embraced policies which can be construed as "anti-fossil-fuel."

In an earlier post, I posited that high worldwide gasoline prices are probably the result of:

1) collapse of free energy trade (sanctions, war)
2) limited refining capacity
3) pandemic-driven pent up demand for travel
4) domestic active drilling rig count plummeting (but check out the graph - it has grown from 250 during the dark days of the pandemic to 750 ….)

And I would venture that the current US Presidential administration is directly responsible for #4. #2 is a result of US govt policy that predates the current administration.
Just my opinion, which is not worth much. :)
#4 was driven by shareholders circa 2016-2018 when oil was in the $40s per barrel and there were no wars to fuel demand, so they commanded return of capital instead of more capacity. My dates and numbers might not be exact but it’s in the ballpark. “Why keep drilling for something so cheap? Pay dividends instead” is what they said. While the current administration favors “green”, I think that preference is pretty naked and powerless in the face of these economic factors.

And I agree that no single source can be blamed for this (that IS intellectually lazy, notwithstanding its convenience), or else that single source would stop it. These gas prices will show Uncle Joe his rocking chair, and I don’t think that’s what he wants.

To be clear, I favor green, in the form of less fossil fuel burning AND more cash.

maw
 
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3) pandemic-driven pent up demand for travel
I suspect the demand for travel will diminish as quickly as it rose, now that both fuel is ±$6/gal average, and airfare is generally nuts right now. Unfortunately I don't think the reduced demand will drive down fuel prices much, if at all.

:confused:
 
Gas prices are going to get much worse before they get better. I’m expecting $8-9 in my state up from the current $6.00 for super. The high price states will be much worse.

I’m hoping folks here have started battening down the hatches for the economic storm that’s coming.

Some sources are positing that we are already in a recession — the numbers haven’t yet caught up with the economic reality.

I won’t be surprised if the Fed raises rates by 75 basis points this week rather than the projected 50 to try to cool things down.
 

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