1995 E420 road tests from C&D and R&T

[gsxr]

See PDF's at links below.

Anyone have the Sept-1994 Road & Track with the long-term test report? I'd like to read that (and scan it).

http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/articles/E420_C&D_Feb-1995_First-Class_Travelers.pdf
(8MB file)

http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/articles/E420_R&T_Mar-1995_Elite_Eights.pdf
(10MB file)

Interestingly, the E420 came in 1st or 2nd in the two tests, despite being at the end of its production run (one test complained that you had to use a - gasp - key to unlock the car, how quaint! I like how it beat the Beamers though. Heh-heh.

 

[wonetwofour]

That's pretty interesting to read. It makes me wonder how many others of the compared models enjoy a status today as the w124 does. I'd imagine the BMW's do have quite a following of course. I've always enjoyed reading about the 535i, 540's, 635csi's, 740's, and 750's (never mind the deadly 6 cylinder M3 E36 from '92-'99!). I'm sure a quick search would yield cult-like forums on almost any type of car...but is anyone paying attention to the Infinity Q or a Lexus from those years? Or a Jaguar? What do I know...they could be fine automobiles as well, but I'd like to think most of the cars in the articles wouldn't last like a w124.

I'd love to know how they all feel while driving one today...that's the real test I suppose, if they can be enjoyably used 17-20 years after the article was written with a minimum of 200,000 on the clock like w124's can.

 

[wonetwofour]

I did a quick search on Autotrader to satisfy my curiosity. I searched for Lexus LS 400, Infinity, and Jaguar. Of 99 returned results in the US most were Lexus LS 400, top mileage for sale was 253,000. There were not many Q's or Jaguar's for sale, but the Q did have mid 200,000's on it. Yeah that pesky Lexus is still out there looking bland but both performing and holding up well it seems, holding its fair price like the Benz. Gotta give it to 'em, seems like a winner.

 

[gerryvz]

Most of the real old LS400s I see on the road today are pretty trashed. I don't even see that many of them, really.

 

[gsxr]

It would be interesting to drive a few of the Lexii, etc with 200k and see how they compare to a W124 with 200k.

 

[gerryvz]

My sense is that they actually would compare quite favorably.

 

[400Eric]

I doubt it. Let's don't forget about that SC400 that had a hard time keeping up with my lowly 235,000 mile 300E at the track. (No video but the Vookster saw the race.) That's a 32 valve 4.0 liter V8 that should be running in my 400E's league but instead struggled to compete in my 12 valve 3.0 liter I6's league! Pretty sad! Lexuses may still be running at the 200,000 mile mark, but I doubt they are still providing OEM performance at that point like a W124 typically still is.

Oh, I get it! You're just trying to bait Dave, right?
Regards, Eric

 

[gerryvz]

There are a lot of variables that go into the real-world longevity of a car. Generally speaking, across the board, I'd say that MB vehicles are more long-lived than Lexus cars. But that's not to say that any Lexus can't (or won't) go 300,000 miles. Because it is well documented that well-cared-for Lexi certainly can and do go that far. Generally speaking, one does see far more MBs on the road than you do older Lexi (for example, I saw an SC400 on the road over the weekend, which I haven't seen for quite some time) whereas I see 123s, 124s and 126s even here in Texas quite regularly on the road.

So not disputing the fact that the MB is the better and more solidly made car, heavier duty, etc. But with care and feeding, certainly a first-generation Lexus LS400 or SC400 can and will go the distance.

I certainly do see a lot of ratty C, E and S-class Benzes out there -- particularly the Cs and Es. A lot of super ratty 202s and 210s and even now some 203s that are looking VERY long in the tooth.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[fudgitive]

An old Lexus is as common a sight as an old Benz in these parts, I see them every day on the highway getting an absolute pounding and they seem to cope well with the extreme conditions - the locals love them.

 

[bing]

The long and short of it is that MBs, and even Beemers, actually age better than toyotas/Lexus - rarely you see a collectable one!

Although they may look ugly and build quality is crap, they are well known for their reiiability. Don't get me wrong , I wouldn't dream of owning one, but I think some would hate to admit this.

 

[gerryvz]

I agree, in my experience, a 25-year-old Benz vs. a 25-year-old Toyota/Honda/Lexus ... when you can find one ... is no contest. The Benz is going to be far more durable and in better condition, given other variables being roughly equal.

I can't say for BMW but for older BMWs, I think they lie somewhere between the Benz gold standard and the Toyota/Lexus standard, which is a lot lower. The late 1980s 5-series and M5s that I've seen, are definitely a notch below typical MBs of the same era in terms of condition/durability/etc.

In recent years, I believe the advantage that MB traditionally enjoyed for decades, has largely diminished in this area. Again, I cannot say with regard to BMW, but I would put them on a rough par with M-B in this department (current cars).

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[samiam44]

My observation may be a little different..


I think it's benz reasonable parts prices from the factory for many items. The Lexus/Infinitys the parts are super expensive compaired to their market value, so they become more in need of attention the older they get. MB having small sunroof visor clips in stock, fuel line, brake parts, tie-rods etc, it's quite easy to keep them running like new=)
If it's NLA or $200 for a visor, you rig it up yourself, leave it broken or hit the junkyard.

But, I do think these older cars were made to be repaired when labor was relatively cheap.

Michael

 

[400Eric]

It's worth re-stating the difference between "reliable" and "durable".

"Reliable" is that disposable cigarette lighter that lights on the first try every time, but when it's done, it's done.

"Durable" is the refillable lighter that doesn't always light on the first try, but it's the one that is still gonna be here and still working fine thirty years from now.

Toyotas/Lexii are the disposable lighters, MBs are the refillable lighters.

There was a mention in Car & Driver about 20 years ago quoting a European study done by the European equivalent of R.L. Polk that stated in no uncertain terms that MB was the longest lasting car in Europe with Volvo coming in an extremely close second.

I wish I could remember the name of that company, as it would be interesting to see what they have found in subsequent studies through the ensuing years. (Maybe some of the European members can help us out?) I fear though that MB's "dark years" probably skewered the results.

There was another fine Car & Driver article published in the 3/93 issue called "The Beef Eaters" that is a comparison test that is very similar to the 95 C&D article posted here in this thread. It would be a nice addition to this growing article database. (I have a few pages of it myself but they're only piss-poor B&W copies from a piss-poor microfisch on a piss-poor machine. I know somebody out there can do better.) If every member here were to send Dave and/or Uncle Gerry just two articles, we would have a killer online article collection that the whole hobby could enjoy! (I already contributed my two articles to Dave back in the old site's days.)

Thanks for posting these Dave!
Regards, Eric

 

[samiam44]

I'd love to see a complete evaluation on how long different makes last on average...

Also, It would be cool to see currently registration, and mileage data by MB body series.

 

[Jlaa]

Car and Driver just re-released their 02/1995 Article on their website this week (as referenced and archived by @gsxr by post #1 - #1 )

1995 Luxury Car Comparison Test: Hedonistic Hustle

Just as the luxury-sedan category was bumping its head on excellence, the ceiling got raised.

www.caranddriver.com

It was fascinating to re-read this article --- the E420 got 2nd place against the competition in 1995 --- when the chassis was already 10 years old and on its last model year!

It was also so nice to read C&D write so much about how the chassis felt; how the machine felt in one's hands and the experience that it engendered........ as opposed to modern reviews which focus more objectively on infotainment/stereos and technology.

Quotes that made me smile:

The interior is solemn, with thin padding over its structural bones.

The no-frills starkness of this car has a certain charm if only because it lets the raw power and connected-to-the-road handling stand out.

There's not a trace of flab in this definition of exclusive motoring, nothing but a sinewy stride over the road, surefooted on any surface.

HIGHS: Raw power, lots of raw power, and a sinewy chassis.
LOWS: Five years behind the others in conveniences —to unlock the doors, you still need a key.
VERDICT: Potent, but with all the luxury you'd expect of Nordic Track.

 

[Duh_Vinci]

VERDICT: Potent, but with all the luxury you'd expect of Nordic Track.

 

[gerryvz]

Agreed. I used to love EVO and CAR magazine from the UK, so good.

Crappy photos of the C and D Guide attached.

Neeeeeed high-res scan.

 

[dionphaneuf]

I'm fairly certain I have that issue at my parents house so will get in when I'm next there. Would have been from the late 90s so 5-7 years after the 500E came out (although Europe got it as a 90 MY).

 

[BTR]

I'm fairly certain I have that issue at my parents house so will get in when I'm next there. Would have been from the late 90s so 5-7 years after the 500E came out (although Europe got it as a 90 MY).

Ditto! Dug that C&D issue out of my hoard when I picked up a ‘95 E420. Very good shape considering I was under 10 years old when I collected them through the 90’s…my Grandfather always had a C&D subscription and handed them off to me.