Carlsson C 56 W202

[weide1]

Fahrzeugbrief of the one-off Carlsson W202 C 56. As show at the IAA Frankfurt 1995.



I read 5602 ccm. And here i read it too.



Does this mean the Carlsson C 56 engine doesn't have the same bore and stroke, and therefore the same displacement, of the M117 5,6 liter Mercedes engine? Being 5547 ccm out of 96,5 x 94,8 mm bore and stroke.

And to make it even more interesting. Carlsson also had a C 62. That engine however was also availible in a KE version. Since KE was before LH and ME, the C 56 engine must have been made later than the C 62 engine.

How odd is that? Since usually displacement grows.

Anyway, anyone here aware of this 5602 ccm M119 engine? And happens to know the bore and stroke also?

 

[Taxi Driver]

Anyway, anyone here aware of this 5602 ccm M119 engine? No but I sure as HELL want and Think of building such a Sun of a Gun...

Long ago I read a similar article, a C with a M119, 5.6 thats my guessing.

 

[weide1]

Perhaps it was this.

http://www.tuningarchive.ru/scans/0075s.html

Must have been no coincidence that i read IAA Frankfurt 95.

 

[weide1]

This one popped up. Don´t know if it´s a genuine Carlsson. I thought the 5.6 was a one-off! Decal 'could be' an indication!

https://www.drive2.ru/r/mercedes/476873862080889504/

One engine pic.

 

[Taxi Driver]

Right, Carlsson did some stuff with the M119, wich ended in the C62 '96/97 W210 100x98,8mm giving 6207cc 425ps 620nm, there I wonder
what crank did they use, billet or offset grinding?

 

[weide1]

It ended with the 6.2. But it also started with the 6.2. Since i read R129 KE 400 PS/600 Nm here.




That 5.6 must have been some sort of project in between? Who will tell? Guys from Carlsson (i contacted Stefan Mueller) couldn't tell me.

Reason could be since Carlsson is now Carlsson Fahrzeugtechnik. It has become a different company. Only the name is more or less the same. Perhaps even Rolf and Andreas Hartge and Lothar Rau don't belong to Carlsson Fahrzeugtechnik anymore.

 

[weide1]

It ended with the 6.2. But it also started with the 6.2. Since i read R129 KE 400 PS/600 Nm here.

View attachment 65050
View attachment 65051

Here an R129 with a 6,2 liter KE Carlsson engine pops up.

https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/...riant1.modelGroupId=17&pageNumber=1&scopeId=C

 

[weide1]

I heard from the current owner how Carlsson made the 5,6 engine.
They took the 4,2 from the W124. Bored it to 95 mm. And stroked it to 98,8 mm by using the crank they already used in the 6,2.
Making 5602 cm³.

 

[gsxr]

What a bizarre build.

Using a stock 5.0 block (96.5) with the Carlsson custom crank (98.8) would result in ~5.8L (5,781cc).

Or, stock 5.0 block with 100mm Brabus crank would be ~5.9L (5,851cc).

Advantage to either of the above theoretical configurations would be not having to bore/etch the block. Still need custom pistons for the longer stroke though. I think for most people, the block bore/etch is the biggest hassle, as so few machine shops have the equipment to work with Alusil blocks; at least in USA.

 

[195910]

I have seen the car in 2018, LH M119.

I am interested to know where the W202 Brabus 6.0L ended up. I seems to have disappeared

 

[gsxr]

I'm really curious what the cost would be for a custom 100mm stroke crank, and custom pistons to accommodate the longer stroke, in a stock 5L block. The ~5.9L displacement might provide a serious power gain without having to have the block machined.

Of course, stock camshafts might be the next limiting factor... but I have a feeling the stock intake ports & valves might be a bigger issue than cams.

 

[195910]

I'm really curious what the cost would be for a custom 100mm stroke crank, and custom pistons to accommodate the longer stroke, in a stock 5L block. The ~5.9L displacement might provide a serious power gain without having to have the block machined.

Of course, stock camshafts might be the next limiting factor... but I have a feeling the stock intake ports & valves might be a bigger issue than cams.

Your biggest issue now would be the ECU. Tuners can't program the old EEPROM chips, I guess they don't know the programming language or have the interface required to re-map.

 

[gsxr]

Your biggest issue now would be the ECU. Tuners can't program the old EEPROM chips, I guess they don't know the programming language or have the interface required to re-map.

I think I've reverse-engineered the LH stuff enough to adjust for different displacement, or at least I'd be willing to give it a try on my own engine build. At 5.8-5.9L, using a 6.0 program may be close enough to work fine. Now if building a 5.6L, I'd definitely want modified code adjusted for the displacement change.

 

[Jlaa]

I think I've reverse-engineered the LH stuff enough to adjust for different displacement, or at least I'd be willing to give it a try on my own engine build. At 5.8-5.9L, using a 6.0 program may be close enough to work fine. Now if building a 5.6L, I'd definitely want modified code adjusted for the displacement change.

What do piston speeds look like with a 100m stroke? I must admit I am too lazy to do the math. Would it still be OK with a 6K redline?

 

[gsxr]

What do piston speeds look like with a 100m stroke? I must admit I am too lazy to do the math. Would it still be OK with a 6K redline?

Excellent question. I haven't researched this, but I'd like to find out. I'm thinking since the stroke is only changing a few percent, it should be OK with stock redline, but you might not want to push it much higher.

That said, I thought the guy in Australia who built a 6L with custom lightweight pistons and ITB intake was spinning to 7000-7500rpm via aftermarket ECU...? If so, and if the 6L stroke is semi-safe at those RPM's, it's likely 100mm would be ok <6500.

 

[ngenius1]

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Hello all.
Came across this C56 for sale, if it has been previously posted apologies.

 

[AIM_ELAMIN]

Carlsson C56 W202 M119 W124 E60 Einzelstück

Eine Legende steht zum Verkauf! Der nur einmal gebaute Carlsson C56 ... 1995, lange bevor der V8...,Carlsson C56 W202 M119 W124 E60 Einzelstück in Bochum - Bochum-Wattenscheid

www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de

Up for grabs again...no affiliation