What is it with people who think their VIN is as sensitive as their Social Security number? I mean, c'mon! Anyone walking past the car in a parking lot can view the VIN through the windshield. It isn't private!
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Contemplating the Cabriolets
- Thread starter stevenstevensteven
- Start date
I saw this ad cuz this is the combo I had. I think there is a story on this one from what my eyes could see on front bumper looks like paint fade (see below under DS headlight) and as said the interior is pretty crappy for the mileage. Yes it is Garnet red #512. I also confirmed with my 95 brochures on this. I honestly forgot how nice the brochures used to be for cars. Thanks for making me look for these and walk down memory lane
In what seems like another lifetime now I owned both a 1964 220seb Coupe and a 1967 230 Fintail Sedan. Both were Euro models and had 4-speed floor shifts. The Coupe was Polar White w/ Black leather, with real Euro 1 piece headlights. I paid $3K for it. The Fintail was a different story. It had a blown engine (piston thru the cylinder wall). It belonged to a girlfriend of my wife who drove this beautiful looking little sedan into the ground. I paid her $800 for it.
The reason I’m bringing this up on this thread is both of these car were I thought very drivable cars. The 230 was a little quirky but a lot of fun. I don’t necessarily disagree w/ Gerry about these cars being expensive to keep up and 25 years later down the road no doubt parts are harder to find and more expensive.
In defense of these models they had a lot of good qualities. The Coupe was really very cool looking and I thought it drove and handeled very well. It had not run for over 10 years when I purchased it from a friend. With a new battery and some starting fluid it started instantly. I drove it home about 6 miles and lost most of the rubber tread on the tires. After rebuilding the brake system and 4 new Michelin tires I drove the car back and forth to work for about a year or so. I took it to Palm Springs via the Ortega Highway a twisty highway over the mountains. Although it was not a powerhouse I found it to be very dependable. In a years time the the biggest and most expensive problem was all of the stitches in the upholstery were rotten and the only fix was new upholstery. It did need new paint but the body was strait and had a little rust in a rear fender well. Not bad for a car that lived in Germany. I had great dreams for this car. Unfortunately at the time I had a lot less disposable income and my intent to restore it had to be abandoned. I still wish I had this car back.
After I fixed the Fintail, I drove it for a few years and it was slow but fun to drive. The pic w/ 4 wheels off of the ground that reminded me that you could go over any kind of rough road at high speed without worries. Where I live there used to be a really bad dip in the road. You could see the gouges in the asphalt from all of cars that had bottomed out. The Fintail could go thru it at 50 mph all day long. I can see why 3rd world countries love this car.
My point being I would not be afraid of the 220 to 280 Cabriolet or Coupe if that’s what you want. They are expensive but I think dependable also they ride like a dream. Like everything else in cars earlier ones are simpler. The 1972 280SE 3.5 V8 being the most complicated and the most desired. Gerry is right about them being a expensive bauble and a weekend driver but most of our hobby cars are weekend drivers including our E500Es. Think about it.
The reason I’m bringing this up on this thread is both of these car were I thought very drivable cars. The 230 was a little quirky but a lot of fun. I don’t necessarily disagree w/ Gerry about these cars being expensive to keep up and 25 years later down the road no doubt parts are harder to find and more expensive.
In defense of these models they had a lot of good qualities. The Coupe was really very cool looking and I thought it drove and handeled very well. It had not run for over 10 years when I purchased it from a friend. With a new battery and some starting fluid it started instantly. I drove it home about 6 miles and lost most of the rubber tread on the tires. After rebuilding the brake system and 4 new Michelin tires I drove the car back and forth to work for about a year or so. I took it to Palm Springs via the Ortega Highway a twisty highway over the mountains. Although it was not a powerhouse I found it to be very dependable. In a years time the the biggest and most expensive problem was all of the stitches in the upholstery were rotten and the only fix was new upholstery. It did need new paint but the body was strait and had a little rust in a rear fender well. Not bad for a car that lived in Germany. I had great dreams for this car. Unfortunately at the time I had a lot less disposable income and my intent to restore it had to be abandoned. I still wish I had this car back.
After I fixed the Fintail, I drove it for a few years and it was slow but fun to drive. The pic w/ 4 wheels off of the ground that reminded me that you could go over any kind of rough road at high speed without worries. Where I live there used to be a really bad dip in the road. You could see the gouges in the asphalt from all of cars that had bottomed out. The Fintail could go thru it at 50 mph all day long. I can see why 3rd world countries love this car.
My point being I would not be afraid of the 220 to 280 Cabriolet or Coupe if that’s what you want. They are expensive but I think dependable also they ride like a dream. Like everything else in cars earlier ones are simpler. The 1972 280SE 3.5 V8 being the most complicated and the most desired. Gerry is right about them being a expensive bauble and a weekend driver but most of our hobby cars are weekend drivers including our E500Es. Think about it.
IMO... the main drawback to the 1960's iron is the insane pricetags. I mean, for a hundred grand (figuring $10k in deferred maintenance) you could get 3 or 4 really nice 124 cabrios or E500E's. Toss a CLK63 into the mix as Jimbo mentioned.
I keep thinking these people have misplaced a decimal point in the asking prices, but apparently not.
I keep thinking these people have misplaced a decimal point in the asking prices, but apparently not.
Owner sent VIN. [FONT="]WDBEA66E8SC279979
[/FONT]I went back and forth with him over email a few times, and it turns out he's been the target of a few scams through Craigslist, so he is naturally suspicious. Once he realized I was the real deal, he let his guard down and became a very nice guy.
I have his name and phone number if anyone would like to follow-up. Just PM me.
Thanks for the VIN! Datacard link below. Pretty late build car (for USA), Oct-1995 production.
What is interesting is the paint code, 572 Ruby Red Metallic. I thought it looked a little different / darker than Garnet/Almandine 512.
Ruby Red was not in the MBNA paint/color brochures, it's likely this car was a special order. I really like the color! Nice and unicorn-y too.
https://www.datamb.com/vin/8r74lEk4BZR2NRyvq
Anyone notice the green whale-tail in the background, btw?
Generally I am not one for red, but this is quite an interesting color.
Did you ask him about the paint fade on the front bumper?
I did not, but I will.
Thanks for the VIN! Datacard link below. Pretty late build car (for USA), Oct-1995 production.
What is interesting is the paint code, 572 Ruby Red Metallic. I thought it looked a little different / darker than Garnet/Almandine 512.
Ruby Red was not in the MBNA paint/color brochures, it's likely this car was a special order. I really like the color! Nice and unicorn-y too.
https://www.datamb.com/vin/8r74lEk4BZR2NRyvq
Anyone notice the green whale-tail in the background, btw?
Check on the whale tail on the back. Caught my eye before even looking at the Cab
Thanks for this link to decoder, by chance I still had my VIN and it reads same color code of Ruby 572U with a Dec 95 production for mine
Response from the owner...
With regard to Ruby Red Metallic not being in the MBNA paint/color brochures and whether it was a special order
[FONT="] The color is a surprise to me, I thought it was Cabernet Red. I don’t know if it was a special order but I would think that would show up on the data card.
About the paint on the front bumper
I can only guess that it was poorly painted at some time. I can not see any other evidence of paint work anywhere else on the body.
About the Green car in the background
[/FONT]
[FONT="] The Porsche is a 1977 Carrera 3.0L that I bought in Europe in 1982. It only has 61K miles on it. Great car. Not for sale.[/FONT]
With regard to Ruby Red Metallic not being in the MBNA paint/color brochures and whether it was a special order
[FONT="] The color is a surprise to me, I thought it was Cabernet Red. I don’t know if it was a special order but I would think that would show up on the data card.
About the paint on the front bumper
I can only guess that it was poorly painted at some time. I can not see any other evidence of paint work anywhere else on the body.
About the Green car in the background
[/FONT]
[FONT="] The Porsche is a 1977 Carrera 3.0L that I bought in Europe in 1982. It only has 61K miles on it. Great car. Not for sale.[/FONT]
Just tossing this one out there. I've come across it a couple times in the past few months on ebay. It catches my eye each time. Condition of the finishes seems to be above average. Modest miles. Seller claims top has been serviced. No mention of drivetrain condition, other than no leaks. No underhood nor underbody pics.
1995 R129 of the 500 variety:
22JAN18 High bid $7600, RNM
05FEB18 High bid $6300, RNM
17FEB18 High bid $9800, RNM (To me, that seems like all the money, but admittedly, I'm not on top of the R129 market)
05MAR18 High bid $7800, RNM
Currently bid to $5400.
http://skymotorworks.com/home/detail?id=619
I'm saving my pennies for a sporty car with a hand shaker transmission, but a clean R129 does give me pause.
1995 R129 of the 500 variety:
22JAN18 High bid $7600, RNM
05FEB18 High bid $6300, RNM
17FEB18 High bid $9800, RNM (To me, that seems like all the money, but admittedly, I'm not on top of the R129 market)
05MAR18 High bid $7800, RNM
Currently bid to $5400.
http://skymotorworks.com/home/detail?id=619
I'm saving my pennies for a sporty car with a hand shaker transmission, but a clean R129 does give me pause.
I'm experiencing a similar situation. The local one I'm kinda following is older with less miles & hasn't moved in at least 2 years. Owner (whom I am yet to talk with) is asking $10K.
I watch them as well. If i recall correctly, according to Klink the 97 MY is the one to have. Something about still having the M119 and an improved transmission. There was a 97 with the AMG body add ons, 110,000 miles, selling here recently for $7,500 or so.
drew
drew
Oh, I'd definitely go for the 300ce
https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=843&p=148186&viewfull=1#post148186
1996-1998 USA model years (129.067 chassis) will have the distributorless M119.980 with 722.6 transmission, very nice setup.
1999-2002 USA model years changed to 129.068 chassis, and M113 three-valve engine. The M113 is still a really nice motor, generally equal in reliability/durability as the M119, but lacking a little in the soul department from what I understand. (I've never owned an M113, but I'm not against the idea as I am with the M103!)
If I remember correctly, 1998 was the last US model year for the M119.98X as used in the R129 models. Though as has been said, 1997 is often considered to be the "best" year for the model. Also, the M113 I believe was rated at about the same HP level (give or take a few HP) than the M119 that went before it.
EDIT 1: Maui, you are correct, the M113 for 1999 in the SL500 was rated at 302 HP, so it was down-rated by 13 HP from the M119-based 1998 models.....
EDIT 2: Oops, I posted before seeing Dave's reply above.
MB introduced a lot of good upgrades for the 1997 model year, which improved it over the 1996 and earlier models.Just curious... what is the advantage of 1997 models over 1998? I thought they were identical. Were some new options introduced (or removed) for 1998 USA model year, last year of the .067 chassis?
For 1998, they had a new alphanumeric display (i.e. added electronic complexity), and the big thing was that they introduced significantly increased "nannification". One thing as part of this was their "predictive" maintenance regimen, in which the computer specified things like OCIs and gave a lot more banal warnings via the display.
And for 1998, they extended the OCI to about 12,000 miles (depending on the computer's analysis), rather than the previous 7,500 interval. Personally, I don't like a computer telling me everything I don't want or need to know based on when it thinks things should be done.
1999 was when they really went off the deep end, though....
I've considered the 2002 Silver Arrow thinking it might be a car on the incline, but I don't like the engine or the interior. IMHO it was justMB trying to make a few sales before the new body style came out. I think a low mile 1997 would better suit my tastes and probably hold its value just as much as the SA. I am always on the look out for a nice 1997, but they are few and in between especially on the left coast. It seems the nice one always end up a dealer in Florida.
Those who own them claim the SL600 is the way to go... and, the V12 powertrain remained unchanged from 1996-2002. If I were in the market for an R129, I'd lean heavily towards that M120.
The nannification may be annoying, but at least with an SDS you should be able to reset pesky reminders and whatnot. Possibly even adjust some of the coding to reduce or eliminate some nannies?
IIRC, '96 brought the .6, '97 brought pano and sport package. I might be off on the dates, but I had honed in on '97 or '98 as I want a Sport Pano 600, if any. As much as I love the M120, I'm not a fan of keeping an extra roof. And if I'm gonna do that, it needs to be Pano (market premium). An '02 Silver Arrow 600 Pano would be tops, but good luck. I think at this point I've moved on from the R129, unless something perfect pops up.
Cheers,
maw
P.S. The attached should help... "Thus the best years for drivers are 1996, 1997 and 1998, which have both the quadcam engine and the 5-speed transmission."
Cheers,
maw
P.S. The attached should help... "Thus the best years for drivers are 1996, 1997 and 1998, which have both the quadcam engine and the 5-speed transmission."
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Roy Spencer has an '01 SL600
Low miles. No Pano. Condition looks to be top shelf. As is the Ask.
https://mercedesheritage.com/classified/show-ad?id=524
Presently, on BaT, there are a boatload of Merc drop tops.
'63 230SL
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1963-mercedes-benz-230sl/
'95 SL500
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1995-mercedes-benz-sl500-3/
'95 E320 Cab
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1995-mercedes-benz-e320-cabriolet-11/
'57 190SL
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1957-mercedes-benz-190sl-4/
'98 SL500
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1998-mercedes-benz-sl500-8/
'95 E320 Cab
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1995-mercedes-benz-e320-cabriolet-12/
And that's ignoring the stack of R107s.
Low miles. No Pano. Condition looks to be top shelf. As is the Ask.
https://mercedesheritage.com/classified/show-ad?id=524
Presently, on BaT, there are a boatload of Merc drop tops.
'63 230SL
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1963-mercedes-benz-230sl/
'95 SL500
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1995-mercedes-benz-sl500-3/
'95 E320 Cab
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1995-mercedes-benz-e320-cabriolet-11/
'57 190SL
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1957-mercedes-benz-190sl-4/
'98 SL500
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1998-mercedes-benz-sl500-8/
'95 E320 Cab
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1995-mercedes-benz-e320-cabriolet-12/
And that's ignoring the stack of R107s.
I had been (and probably still am) holding my M3 as “trade bait” for the next thing, a list where the SL600 used to reside. But for what people are asking for good ones, I’ll keep the M3. It’s just more fun to drive, for me. The SL600 is faster and more luxo, but it’s also a much larger headache to take care of, I lose 2 seats in the convertible, and I already have the “faster and more luxo” box checked, in spades (S55). The SL600 is to me, similar enough to the 500E that I just can’t see owning two cars of that same “vintage.” The M3 and the S55 both feel different enough from the 500E to scratch a different itch. If the right SL63 comes along, I’ll not know that MB ever made the R129, and I won’t be storing a car roof either. The words even seem ridiculous to me — “storing the roof of my convertible”...
In the end, I think your 124 chassis Cabriolet will appreciate more than the 129 chassis for those same reasons: (1) who wants to wrestle with a V12 (Ferrari or not); (2) who wants to store a roof; and (3) 4 seats are better than two, for top down cruising. Maybe I’m wrong.
maw
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M120 engines are unbelievably expensive to repair and operate, both from a labor and a parts perspective. It's essentially two complete M104s on a common crankshaft. Everything is duplicated. Everyone I've ever known has said that the SL500 is 80+% what the SL600 is, and oodles cheaper to actually own and keep on the road. Just saying. I know the V-12s are smooth, torquey, yadda yadda. They are not for the faint-hearted when it comes down to the actual practicality of keeping one around and in tip top shape.
I have a 1997 SL500/R129. I bought it in December of 2013 for $4500 from a guy who was getting divorced and had five (5!) girls who were all "Irish twins", that is, within a year or so of each other in age that were transitioning out of high school into college. To say that he was freaking out over finances was an understatement. None of the girls wanted the "old person's car" as they called it, so he had it on the market for $6,000 in December, a lousy time of the year to sell a car, and believe it or not, a bad time of the year to sell a convertible even in Florida. The car had been a midlife crisis purchase.
I went and looked at it and other than some really awful aftermarket wheels he put on it the car had good bones from what I could tell. I told him I didn't want the wheels and would pay $4500 for the car with the original 16 hole (chromed - yuck!) wheels. He didn't hesitate.
The car had a little over 70k on the clock and a rather lengthy history. It was sold and delivered at MB of Beverly Hills, after which it went to Sacramento for a a while and then to this guy, who bought it at a salvage auction in SoCal. Yup, it was a salvage. He had it completely gone through by a local dealer in Tampa and got it inspected by the State and obtained a rebuilt title. I went over it in in great detail and could find some very obscure things that told me it had been wrecked, but it was otherwise well done.
It needed top cylinders, which I did shortly after I bought it courtesy of Klaus at Top Hydraulics, and a few month later I found a set of take-offs from a 2003 SLK for $300 that are bolt up 16" wheels that are staggered. With these on it the car drives like it's on rails.
As of today it has a touch over 120,000 miles on it, and other than regular maintenance the car has never had so much as a hiccup. The wife hates the drop top so it is driven with the hardtop on it nearly 100% of the time. I replaced the headliner and while doing so laid up several layers of DynaMat in the roof before replacing the headliner. The interior of the car is like a library it's so quiet. I take the top off a couple times a year and run the soft top up and down and let it stretch in the sun.
My wife wails on cars. Not in a bad way, she just loves to go-go-go and STOP. To give you an idea, my brother in law (her brother) is a hard core Mustang freak and owns a 2008 GT350 that will go ballistic just looking at it. He was riding with her this weekend and he told me that she's, well, "aggressive" when it comes to driving (not towards other drivers, just with the car itself.)
I put new rotors all around when it needed them along with Akebono ceramic pads and it's been perfect. I feel bad about how hard she drives it, but the car must love it because it never, ever complains. I personally don't like the car as it sits too low and feels claustrophobic to me, but then again, I've been an S-class guy for years so I like my living room couch to drive in. It is a heck of a good performance car and will get up on its hind legs with a minimal amount of throttle. Personally, I would never go with a V12 in the R129 as I don't think the additional cost of the upkeep and maintenance is worth the slight difference in performance you might find. The M119 will make it go plenty fast. Come take a ride with my wife and you'll become a believer.
Dan
I went and looked at it and other than some really awful aftermarket wheels he put on it the car had good bones from what I could tell. I told him I didn't want the wheels and would pay $4500 for the car with the original 16 hole (chromed - yuck!) wheels. He didn't hesitate.
The car had a little over 70k on the clock and a rather lengthy history. It was sold and delivered at MB of Beverly Hills, after which it went to Sacramento for a a while and then to this guy, who bought it at a salvage auction in SoCal. Yup, it was a salvage. He had it completely gone through by a local dealer in Tampa and got it inspected by the State and obtained a rebuilt title. I went over it in in great detail and could find some very obscure things that told me it had been wrecked, but it was otherwise well done.
It needed top cylinders, which I did shortly after I bought it courtesy of Klaus at Top Hydraulics, and a few month later I found a set of take-offs from a 2003 SLK for $300 that are bolt up 16" wheels that are staggered. With these on it the car drives like it's on rails.
As of today it has a touch over 120,000 miles on it, and other than regular maintenance the car has never had so much as a hiccup. The wife hates the drop top so it is driven with the hardtop on it nearly 100% of the time. I replaced the headliner and while doing so laid up several layers of DynaMat in the roof before replacing the headliner. The interior of the car is like a library it's so quiet. I take the top off a couple times a year and run the soft top up and down and let it stretch in the sun.
My wife wails on cars. Not in a bad way, she just loves to go-go-go and STOP. To give you an idea, my brother in law (her brother) is a hard core Mustang freak and owns a 2008 GT350 that will go ballistic just looking at it. He was riding with her this weekend and he told me that she's, well, "aggressive" when it comes to driving (not towards other drivers, just with the car itself.)
I put new rotors all around when it needed them along with Akebono ceramic pads and it's been perfect. I feel bad about how hard she drives it, but the car must love it because it never, ever complains. I personally don't like the car as it sits too low and feels claustrophobic to me, but then again, I've been an S-class guy for years so I like my living room couch to drive in. It is a heck of a good performance car and will get up on its hind legs with a minimal amount of throttle. Personally, I would never go with a V12 in the R129 as I don't think the additional cost of the upkeep and maintenance is worth the slight difference in performance you might find. The M119 will make it go plenty fast. Come take a ride with my wife and you'll become a believer.
Dan
Don't get pissed, everybody, I love the M119, but the 129 absolutely LOVED the weight reduction and the more level torque afforded by the M113. In the USA, the '99 on cars also have the vastly better brakes which were adapted from the 220. We all go gaga over them, somewhat mistakenly calling them "SA brakes". The only thing that made them "SA" was the silver paint. They were otherwise simply the MY '99 on 129 V8/12 brakes. The '98 and prior V8 USA version cars have the 6 cylinder "rest of world" brakes, the same sizes and largely the exact same parts that we in yank got on the 500E until 3/93. The only difference was the front calipers were cast iron on the 129, the same iron calipers that were the remedy fitment for the pre-3/93 USA 500E if it had the howling/self-application syndrome, which ALL 500Es with those alloy calipers have. Don’t tell me yours doesn’t. You simply haven’t cruised fast enough for long enough to experience it…
Would I have a 129 with a M119? Oh, hell yes! Great cars. One of my all-time favorites, but those that dismiss them with a M113 relative to the M119 only because of the engine are working from limited perspective whether they know it or not. Also, so much less goes wrong with a M113, that it can be vastly cheaper to own, and it uses way less fuel...
Regarding the M120 cars, maybe my favorite MB engine, bar none. That said, take whatever ownership expenses that you know with a V8 car and AT LEAST double it. That IS what you WILL experience. This is also because the V12 cars also have as standard expensive high repair cost chassis systems like all around leveling with ADS as standard, while those were rare extra cost options on the 8 and 6-cylinder cars. And I almost forgot to mention, partly due to the sublime sound and feel of the engine, the heavier front end of the V12 129 is a detriment to vehicle dynamics. The standard ADS does help to compensate, but still, extra weight is extra weight, and contrary to the old Ford Pinto advertisements, that extra weight is not “road hugging“. The V12 USA cars do have the benefit of the “exclusive leather“ interior being standard, so at least you will not get the garbage door panels that detract so much from the 1996 on models should you get one.
Overall, no question, the 5L. V-8s are the “sweet spots” of 129 ownership, just as they are with my favorite barge, the 140. But if you don’t care what they cost to keep, and/or you can do plenty of your own work and parts sourcing, the V12s are F.M...
The six-cylinder cars? For my money, you can keep the CIS 104 motor used 1990 through 1993. If it is literally possible for an engine to produce negative torque, this one does. Couldn’t pull a greasy string out of a dogs ass until it is over 4000 RPM. Some compensation for that? It does have a 7000 RPM redline, and at least in the USA, a five speed automatic was standard equipment. For those luddites that like them, it can be found with the rare five speed manual transmission. Oh, I forgot to mention, the 93 did get full-time first gear start. That helped some. Many in Europe actually liked the car better with the single cam two valve M103, which was available there through '93. Far more appealing to me are the 1994 on six cylinder cars. The “plastic manifold” 3.2 L M104 is just a great engine. Adequate torque, six cylinder smoothness and zing, their only detriment is a slightly lumpy power delivery. You can really feel the two-stage intake manifolding and the intake camshaft timing switch. The glorious 7000 RPM redline was reduced to something like 6400, too. That’s not really a detriment considering that every other aspect of performance was hugely improved. For the 1997 model year, it received the electronically controlled 722.6 transmission. I’d have a 1994 on six cylinder 129...
But remember, the iron block 104 weighs about the same as the all alloy M119, so there’s really no front end weight saving. You get THAT with the M113...
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Not car related, but here's the best thing that KW EVER wrote, IMO. Oh, this pisses some people off...
http://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/audiophile.htm
I feel embarrassed to say this, but I don't think I've ever been in a R129. My curiosity is being peaked.
If you like 124s, you'll like 129s. The 201, 124, and 129 are a shared architectural conception. Some even consider them “platform mates“ but that is an oversimplification.
No, you did not get that from me. I would have the hell out of one, but I would not call it “the one to get” See recent rants for details...
I remember this one. It made me glad I never had the money to be an audiophile. Although, deep into the ‘90s, I was trying to figure out why only the California Audiolabs CD players could play DDD Pat Metheny CD’s as well as certain turntables could play Sting, Nothing Like The Sun on wax, given the same [crazy expensive amps and speakers placed in the listening room]. I did this at the expense of law school, while studying why the Lexus LS400 was suddenly giving the W140 a really hard time. So much changed in the 90s. I digress. Thanks, Klink.
maw
Since you mentioned it, the Mark Levinson branded upgrade system in the first LS400 was really wonderful, wasn’t it?
Not to stray too far on this thread, but where does the 140 fit in this analogy? A completely different lane? Halfway in 201/124/129 lane on its way to 2xx-ville?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That’s an excellent and interesting question, at least it is to me. I love the 140 like a syringe loves a vein. It is both everywhere and nowhere when relating to the 124 and 129. More to come...
I would definitely consider the R129 a "platform mate" of the W124 ... the R129 was derived from the W124 chassis.
Indeed, the similarities are undeniable. I suppose the argument comes from this: To some that may use the term, it implies that the so-called “hard points” of the structure are the same. In other words, one could take a axle sub frame from any one of the three and it will fit the other. One of the other things someone may consider is whether or not they can be built on the same line without changing tooling. Obviously, this is from the era where tooling was more fixed then it is in the current robotic age. To the other side of this semantic pendulum swing, when the 129 was introduced, they specifically said that they “considered making it on the same platform as the 124“ but that they decided they would have a better result if they let the 129 have it’s own platform. That seemed to me like an overstatement, as I would think it does to you, too...
From what I have read from multiple sources, they used the W124 platform as a base from which they adapted & “derived” the R129. That too could be an over-simplification, but it is the basis for my “derivative” comment above.
Please excuse my recollection. I found the thread i was recalling. Quite a while back. It was Bing in post no. 6 here https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4275 More discussion here as well about the R129.
drew
I don't recall reading that before. Excellent article.
On a related note, Klink, I have some speakers cables you would love! They are made with a silver/unobtanium alloy from a secret mine in Narnia, and use exotic solder fortified with koala bear nail clippings. The difference in sound is astonishing. I'll trade one cable for your 122 500E... have anything of value to trade for the other cable?
Oh my God, wasn’t it?!?! Completely revolutionized car audio from the factory in my view. Before then, it was not so much. Mercedes tried, BMW was pathetic, I shan’t mention anyone else. It got better and better after that. Acura followed closely behind. And now it’s a completely different game, and all but dead is the car audiophile. The new Burmeister systems are really nice too, as is the Audi B&O collabo. By the way, my ‘04 Allroad is the only system that came stock in a way that I’ve never felt a desire to change. Just turn it up. It’s a wagon, so the sub is “with the band” in the cabin — changes everything. My daughter’s Beetle came with an optional Fender system — sounds like a Bob Marley concert. Unreal.
One of the things I love about the W140 is the speaker arrangement in the front. Drop in a 4-way amp and some component speakers and, voila! To me, where the W140comes in between the W124 and R129 is literally the 500E. And that’s intended to be a maximum oversimplification — like the number 1.
maw
Really, the crushed koala-claw goo is applicable for solder, too, besides orange cam-solenoid anaerobic sealant? Sweet !!!
Even the stock W140 system is very, VERY good. Better than the best factory systems in the 124 (and, I think, the 210 as well). With a CD head unit and good stock speakers, the 140 system is impressive even today, and back in the early 90's it was amazing. I don't think the E-class received a somewhat-comparable audio system (to the 140) until the 211, maybe.
