Covid 19 & Yakiniku preparation

[Jlaa]

Classic.

Part of the core problem with many these businesses (e.g. Uber, Doordash etc.) that try to buy a market (or big part of one) is that while it takes x years to do so, they burn through a ton of capital and the unspoken killer side effect of this is that most often you end up with management teams that operated in that model and then have no clue how to turn it into or run a profitable entity by being efficient with capital and expenses. They never had to.

Uber was a good idea when it first came out - drivers could make $$ (now its difficult, Uber has just tightened the screws on them more and more), you could get a car more efficiently than a taxi most often, you knew when the car was going to show, you knew his plate number, you had drivers phone #......all far better than traditional taxi.....but they got so greedy in their land grab that they burned through far too much capital, they put the screws to the drivers, built a management team who thought they were invincible who don't know how to run a profitable entity.

Same with WeWork etc. what a mess.

Totally agree. I feel like the last time we (as a society) went through this was 1999/2000. (Not 2009).

"Business" means engaging in an activity that produces cash --- more cash than you started out with.
"Bsuiness" does not mean engaging in capital destruction. Regardless of the "benefits" to society --- if you end up with permanently less capital than you started out with, then that's capital destruction.

 

[gerryvz]

Does "Business" also include activities that "loss leaders" -- that produce unprofitable market share, rather than generating cash? Because, "we'll make it up in volume !!"

 

[LWB250]

It is interesting. We were considering using Instacart (which is a service that we use once a month or so) to do a Costco delivery to our house. We did this about six weeks ago. I'm sure a lot of you guys are familiar with Instacart.

Anyway, we started looking at the "updated" Instacart items for Costco stuff that we buy. One example: a box of 72 Starbucks's French Roast K-cups (Kuerig), which costs $36.00 at our Costco.

Just for this ONE item, Instacart jacked the delivered price up to $46 -- that's a $10 premium they are charging, just on one item. Now remember that Instacart you typically pay one fee per year for unlimited deliveries, and a delivery fee, and they don't jack up the prices on grocery items for many stores. For some stores, they do MODESTLY mark up prices.

But the COVID thing has really made them jack up prices, to a point where it's literally ridiculous.

Needless to say, we drove the 30 minutes to Costco on Sunday, and did our own shopping.

I won't get into the shenanigans that Amazon gets into when you put stuff on a wishlist that you've bought previously...talk about wild price fluctuations...

We won't use delivery services as we think they're predatory. That's just our take on it, but it is what it is. We either deal with restaurants that have their own delivery people or we go and pick it up ourselves. That way we know ALL of our money is going to the business and it's employees.

We've been tipping to excess these days because we think it's the right thing to do and we're fortunate that we can afford to do it. A lot of these people are living on the edge as it is, and anything we can do to help out the local business community we're all for. A local Chinese carry out/delivery place we've patronized for decades delivered food the other night. The wife gave the delivery girl (one of the daughters of the owner) a $20 tip. She refused, then after urging, took it and started crying, she was so grateful. Hopefully, others are doing the same if they can afford to. We want to keep our money "at home" and with our community.

Dan

 

[gerryvz]

We have been doubling tips for delivery persons, yes.

 

[msq]

We've been tipping to excess these days because we think it's the right thing to do and we're fortunate that we can afford to do it. A lot of these people are living on the edge as it is, and anything we can do to help out the local business community we're all for. A local Chinese carry out/delivery place we've patronized for decades delivered food the other night. The wife gave the delivery girl (one of the daughters of the owner) a $20 tip. She refused, then after urging, took it and started crying, she was so grateful. Hopefully, others are doing the same if they can afford to. We want to keep our money "at home" and with our community.

Dan

We have been doubling tips for delivery persons, yes.

Good to hear. We're doing the same. Had same thing happen, girl came out to the car to do curbside delivery she refused tip (it was $40 on $10 thing - just one appetizer) - she insisted she could not take it and get this - her & her Dad (who owned the place) were trying to give us free bottle of wine for "supporting their business during tough time". Super nice people who worked their tail off to build that restaurant through tough times. We insisted she take the tip and she eventually did.

 

[JC220]

How is everyone coping with the lockdown since? More specifically, the lifting of lockdown? Are people locally being sensible or daft? This didn't look good below!!

Coronavirus: Americans flock to beaches on Memorial Day weekend

People are seen flouting restrictions on what is known in the US as the unofficial start of summer.

www.bbc.co.uk

I guess though there will always be a percentile of

special ​

people who think rules don't apply to them!!

We are very slowly just starting to ease measures a little here and people for the most part are being sensible. I am still avoiding shops and public areas like the plague non the less. Pretty much just used to not going anywhere unless essential which means about 1 shop visit a week if even. Panic buying has stopped and shelves are full again which is nice to see that lunacy behind us.

For the most part here in NI we have got off very light so far. Only 1 or 2 deaths per day at the moment and hospitals never did get overwhelmed at all. Some people did then complain about why the nighting gale hospitals were put up and are now not required..... but does someone complain if they had a parachute and didn't have to deploy it on the way down?? It's good that things haven't yet in the first wave hit the total horror that could have happened and things are definitely heading the right way hopefully & cautiously for most countries

 

[LWB250]

How is everyone coping with the lockdown since? More specifically, the lifting of lockdown? Are people locally being sensible or daft? This didn't look good below!!

Coronavirus: Americans flock to beaches on Memorial Day weekend

People are seen flouting restrictions on what is known in the US as the unofficial start of summer.

www.bbc.co.uk

I guess though there will always be a percentile of
special
people who think rules don't apply to them!!

We are very slowly just starting to ease measures a little here and people for the most part are being sensible. I am still avoiding shops and public areas like the plague non the less. Pretty much just used to not going anywhere unless essential which means about 1 shop visit a week if even. Panic buying has stopped and shelves are full again which is nice to see that lunacy behind us.

For the most part here in NI we have got off very light so far. Only 1 or 2 deaths per day at the moment and hospitals never did get overwhelmed at all. Some people did then complain about why the nighting gale hospitals were put up and are now not required..... but does someone complain if they had a parachute and didn't have to deploy it on the way down?? It's good that things haven't yet in the first wave hit the total horror that could have happened and things are definitely heading the right way hopefully & cautiously for most countries

Just for clarification for the folks outside of the U.S.:

There is quite the controversy over the "banning" and "closing" in our country as some people see this as a challenge to their personal rights under the Constitution. I'm not taking sides one way or another, just stating what is taking place and driving some people to ignore or refute the use of PPE and/or social distancing. It's quite a contentious issue, unfortunately.

Panic buying has largely stopped and store shelves are pretty well stocked again. There were concerns about meat availability as a number of large packing plants have been closed due to to COVID outbreaks, but I've seen little reflected in the availability of things in the grocery stores.

One observation I've continued to make, and I think it's telling about the effects this has had on our society, is that basic staples and inexpensive foods like canned soup and pasta are cleaned out at the grocery. And this is not just one store, I've seen it across the board between several stores that I frequent. This tells me that many are living on the edge and trying to make do with little or no income or resources.

Dan

 

[gsxr]

Panic buying has largely stopped and store shelves are pretty well stocked again. There were concerns about meat availability as a number of large packing plants have been closed due to to COVID outbreaks, but I've seen little reflected in the availability of things in the grocery stores.

As of ~2 weeks ago, availability of meat varied widely from store to store, and in different states. Beef items (steaks, roast, ground beef) was non-existent in some stores, and reduced selection in other stores. Most all stores have strict limits how many you can buy - one place allowed 3 total meat items (i.e. 1 pack of bacon, 1 ground beef, 1 chicken). Haven't been shopping recently so I'm not sure if the supply is more normal now, or still limited.

Plenty of off-brand TP on the shelves now, but if you want the good stuff, that is still harder to find... available with some effort though.

 

[ace10]

As of ~2 weeks ago, availability of meat varied widely from store to store, and in different states. Beef items (steaks, roast, ground beef) was non-existent in some stores, and reduced selection in other stores.
....

In my area, it varies greatly by store. One might have paper products with no meat selection. The next might have great meat and dairy but no paper.

Agree with @LWB250 there is a dearth of cheap foods such as canned soups and pasta. Also noticing that grains, in general, are a bit scarce.

Pre-packaged lunch meats are plentiful everywhere.

I'm going out about 1Xweek for groceries. Price increases are real.

 

[Bogeyman]

I've noticed similar shortages of canned and dried foods.
I attribute at least some of it to the fact that these items last indefinitely so people load up on them "just in case".

 

[gerryvz]

I concur 100% with everything Dan says. I'm seeing store shelves mostly 100% stocked again (though I haven't been to the grocery store in about 10-12 days). We went to Costco last weekend and everything seemed very well stocked. Laura went to the local grocery store yesterday and reported that the shelves were pretty well stocked, including the meat section.

 

[Jlaa]

I went to Business Costco 3 days ago. Business Costco is a little different than regular Costco. Its basically all food and food-related items. No TVs, no pharmacy, no washing machines, no vacuum cleaners, etc. The portion sizes are bigger and makes regular Costco look rinky dink.

Anyways, It was fully stocked. Beef prices were a bit high, so I bought lamb and pork instead.

I decided not to buy the *ENTIRE* pig like you can at Business Costco, because even I'm not that much of a hoarder. I'm also still trying to eat down the 50 lbs of flour and 60 eggs I bought 3 weeks ago.

 

[daantjie]

Up here in Canada there has been a huge run on flour and yeast, crazy really...

 

[JC220]

I must admit there was a while there where my essential supplies were so low that I genuinely feared I may not make it through Covid.

It was a harrowing time and I scraped by with dwindling supplies then of all things Ebay came to the rescue for the critical survival items



I got the primers, etch, white and black. Satin black and Matt black paint, wire brushes, tack cloths and brushes those sort of daily survival essentials back in stock again

 

[ace10]

70 Covid testing sites have been taken offline due to lawless rioting, or as the WaPo calls it.... vandalism. Because I guess that sounds cuter.

The Post hides all of their content behind a paywall, so good luck reading the story.

 

[LWB250]

70 Covid testing sites have been taken offline due to lawless rioting, or as the WaPo calls it.... vandalism. Because I guess that sounds cuter.

The Post hides all of their content behind a paywall, so good luck reading the story.

I've found that a lot of these paywalled newspaper sites don't paywall from outside the U.S., so I pop into my VPN and hit them from places like Buttcheekastan if there's something I really want to see, which is rare.

Dan

 

[ace10]

I've found that a lot of these paywalled newspaper sites don't paywall from outside the U.S., so I pop into my VPN and hit them from places like Buttcheekastan if there's something I really want to see, which is rare.

Dan

I've been a heavy user of the RealClear family of news aggregation sites. Especially RealClearPolitics. WaPo won't play nice with them, so I rarely get to read their stories these days. The really great thing about the site is that they present stories on a selected topic from "both" sides. No paywall. ANd they publish their own, original pieces as well.

It's not necessarily the most efficient way to absorb information, but it's very helpful to get the rundown from Politco vs NY Post, The Atlantic vs The Federalist, Townhall vs Slate, WSJ vs NYT, etc.

 

[JC220]

So how are members from the other side of the pond and further finding the Covid situation in their areas?

Have any members suspected to have taken ill with it??

Here in Nothern Ireland / Ireland things are improving each day. Several days in a row with zero deaths is nice to see at times now. Emergency hospitals standing down and some new form of regular returning.

Panic buying is behind us, shops all well stocked again.

The bigger fear now is 3 fold:

1. People thinking the virus is gone and being idiots. (More so than the usual idiots during this pandemic) So far things are still controlled here but who knows when people start mass gatherings and such.
2. The economy.
3. The media

Local businesses are starting to re-open this past few weeks. I did not stop working for even an hour during this. Was at home for a number of weeks working remotely then brought back to office about a month ago. (Early but what can you do when your employer puts measures in place and asks for everyone's return!)

Some local restaurants have already folded and none are open. Maybe soon but Hotels and Hospitality is suffering big time and the true extent will become apparent soon enough.

The Media thrives on negative news and in the UK / Ireland they are lapping this all up, in particular the economy situation now. But I have always believed that this economy issue was caused by the virus and the much needed lockdown. I mean WHAT T F did the people / media expect to happen to quarterly figures when most all businesses must shut for many weeks?????

Anyway the economy appears to be picking up now better than expected (Written in small print in news stories the gits!) with lockdown lifting so hopefully that pace continues and the economy shoots back this year and this darn virus doesn't get a second hit until a vaccine is rolled out etc.

 

[LWB250]

It's getting worse in places like Florida where I live because much of the general public are idiots and ignoring simple things like social distancing and face masks. Sort of a Darwin thing as I see it. I continue to be amazed at the mindset that being told to wear PPE is an attack on our rights. Nothing like considering the greater good of society, eh?

Once the subsidies that have been given out for unemployment end a lot of these people are going to fall out of the economy. This means that the "spectacular" numbers that were given for last month are going to be in the basement.

It's going to get uglier, for sure.

Dan

 

[nocfn]

Many folks in Houston were happy to have elective surgery finally. All hospitals took your temp and let
You in. Proceed to prep and have a covid test. Already admitted and BAM, positive test so it is reported asymptomatic. So its true, more reports but not catastrophe. By next week perhaps it will drop as now you come in 3
Days prior to surgery for covid test, so you are not admitted until they know, rather than everyone getting Admitted first then test. That bit of. Ees doesnt grab headlines however.

 

[JC220]

One by product of Covid and the economic impact is actually a big drop in scrap metal prices here.

Therefore parts yards are now much easier to deal with and I am getting the best deals I have ever had just now Today for example a yard who vehemently refused to sell w220 PSE pumps for any less than £100 before sold me 2x today at £20 each without question.

Unfortunately not many w124s in parts yards at all now. But there are a few w220s so I am making hay while the sun shines as they say and doing rounds of the yards presently every week.

A friend is also moving to new MB parts sales and wants rid if his used parts inventory. So I am negotiating how much of that stock I can buy but it is once in a lifetime deals too. Like good used 722.6s with TCs for £20 each. Hence why my garage looks like a wrecking yard at present with these hoarding opportunities presenting themselves.

 

[ace10]

....

A friend is also moving to new MB parts sales and wants rid if his used parts inventory. So I am negotiating how much of that stock I can buy but it is once in a lifetime deals too. Like good used 722.6s with TCs for £20 each. Hence why my garage looks like a wrecking yard at present with these hoarding opportunities presenting themselves.

Seek professional help. ASAP.

☺

 

[JC220]

Seek professional help. ASAP.

☺

Too late for that I was beyond help some years back

 

[Jlaa]

FWIW - I read that Tom Hanson of MB Classic Center USA is finally returning from the hospital after battling Covid 19 for several weeks.
I am happy he is alive and hope he makes a full recovery.

 

[ace10]

Was surprised to see this last week.




Supply chain is clearly still really messed up. This store had so much TP and paper towels, they were displaying it other aisles also.

My regular store's paper products r still cleared out.

Chlorine bleach prices are insane. $4-5 gallon for generic gallon jug.

 

[gerryvz]

Supply chain is definitely not back to normal, but we are seeing limited supplies of the paper towels and toilet tissue that we used to buy, pre-COVID. Most aisles are indeed stocked at least to a large extent.

 

[JC220]

This may be a great solution-

 

[Kyiv]

I have a 70 year old relative, in Ukraine, who caught the virus. After a week in the hospital (ventilator was not required for his condition) battling some "minor" form of pneumonia he's just about done recovering. This is the only person who I know personally that got sick.

 

[ace10]

I sold a vehicle to an in-state buyer over the weekend.

He contacted the DMV to find out how to get plates and a new Title... they told him he needs an appointment.

First available was in mid November. FOUR MONTHS from now. The guy is rightfully in a tizzy. This is completely and totally insane.

Related... the county school system asked parents which school option they wanted for the 2020-21 school year. Either some sort of hybrid in-person augmented with online or 100% distance "learning."

Parents were evenly divided between the two options. And now, a couple days later, the school executive has ruled out the hybrid option. These kids are going to have an entire lost year. My county couldn't deliver any meaningful remote instruction last year. And nothing will change for the coming one. This is criminal. Starting salary for a 1st year teacher will be $62K on this new contract, and they aren't teaching. I'm so angry I could scream.

 

[gerryvz]

The Maryland DMV is also taking appointments for weeks or months out for routine business. Fortunately, there are independent / privately owned firms sanctioned by the DMV who can do a lot of the same type of work (vehicle registrations, titles, etc.) and they are open for business every day. Some of the Maryland private firms are also licened to do not only Maryland, but also Pennsylvania, and/or Delaware, and even Virginia stuff.

 

[gsxr]

Can he get an appointment at a different DMV location? Maybe one out in the boonies?

VA is relatively low on the risk level metrics, at least North VA. Doesn't look as good in the southeast corner.

Risk Levels - Global Epidemics

RISK LEVELS First published in July 2020, our COVID-19 risk levels dashboard served as a tool for the public to track the pandemic in real time. As the pandemic has evolved and testing and reporting data have changed significantly, we have retired the dashboard as of December 2022. To explore...

globalepidemics.org

 

[ace10]

Can he get an appointment at a different DMV location? Maybe one out in the boonies?

VA is relatively low on the risk level metrics, at least North VA. Doesn't look as good in the southeast corner.

Risk Levels - Global Epidemics

RISK LEVELS First published in July 2020, our COVID-19 risk levels dashboard served as a tool for the public to track the pandemic in real time. As the pandemic has evolved and testing and reporting data have changed significantly, we have retired the dashboard as of December 2022. To explore...

globalepidemics.org

View attachment 107880

He's down in VA beach which is the SE corner.

I'm texting back and forth with him. He said he's tried all the DMV Select locations within an hour, and that includes a teeny tiny one up on the eastern shore.

I feel for the guy. I had no idea that this crap was ongoing.
Also suggested making a friend at a car dealership. And passed along GVZs suggestion about the for-profit Maryland offices.

 

[gerryvz]

Here's a local Benz shop I know the owners of (Silver Star Service in Edgewater/Annapolis) that has a tag and title service, which does PA and Wash DC services in addition to Maryland.

Our Service Menu — Tag & Title Service of Maryland

Tag and Title Solutions at your fingertips.

www.tagofmd.com

 

[LWB250]

Florida is much the same, although there is no private party service except for a few AAA offices that can do registrations for members.

I bought oldest (plumber) son a 2012 Ford Escape on July 6. I went to see when the next available appointment was to get his title and registration. August.

So yesterday I called a buddy in the tax collector's office (in Florida the county tax collectors handle DMV responsibilities) I know and he got me connected with a clerk who took all the information, gave me a total to send in, and pointed me to the forms on the State DMV website to complete and send in with the fees. I mailed everything off today.

The heck with making an appointment.

Dan

 

[Jlaa]

Related... the county school system asked parents which school option they wanted for the 2020-21 school year. Either some sort of hybrid in-person augmented with online or 100% distance "learning."

Parents were evenly divided between the two options. And now, a couple days later, the school executive has ruled out the hybrid option. These kids are going to have an entire lost year. My county couldn't deliver any meaningful remote instruction last year. And nothing will change for the coming one. This is criminal. Starting salary for a 1st year teacher will be $62K on this new contract, and they aren't teaching. I'm so angry I could scream.

I feel you. Distance Learning is a crapshoot. Some kids are self motivated enough to make it work and some are not. It could be worse though. You could have been sending your kids to private school and have already donated 5/6 figures to the “capital campaign“ on top of mid 5 figure tuition, only to now be stuck with distance learning.

I know one sucker who donated seven figures just to get a library named after himself and they ain’t using it!
.... and just to be clear, I’m talking about ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.

 

[TerryA]

I sold a vehicle to an in-state buyer over the weekend.

He contacted the DMV to find out how to get plates and a new Title... they told him he needs an appointment.

First available was in mid November. FOUR MONTHS from now. The guy is rightfully in a tizzy. This is completely and totally insane.

Related... the county school system asked parents which school option they wanted for the 2020-21 school year. Either some sort of hybrid in-person augmented with online or 100% distance "learning."

Parents were evenly divided between the two options. And now, a couple days later, the school executive has ruled out the hybrid option. These kids are going to have an entire lost year. My county couldn't deliver any meaningful remote instruction last year. And nothing will change for the coming one. This is criminal. Starting salary for a 1st year teacher will be $62K on this new contract, and they aren't teaching. I'm so angry I could scream.

My California driver's license expires this August. I tried to renew on line. DMV said that because of my age it cannot be renewed on-line and has to be done in person at a DMV Office. So two weeks ago I went to the Fullerton DMV office near me. The line to get in was around the building and out to the end of the parking lot. I asked someone in line how long he was waiting. He told me about 2 hours and he had about 30 people ahead of him and probably 100 people behind him. I noticed a DMV phone number on the building so I called for information. (all recorded) The info told me that I had to make an appointment on-line for license renewal. So I go home and get on-line with the DMV. On-Line DMV states that due to the response to the new California requirement for a "CA REAL ID Driver's License" and the Covid-19 issue that they are not making any new appoints at present and to try again after August. My driver's license would already be expired.

I had tried for two weeks to get an extension on my Driver's License to no avail. Finally last Sunday I got an extension of 1 year for my license. What a PITA this has been.

This debacle is mostly due to the California's new requirement that residents need a "REAL ID" CA Driver's License by October or you will not be able to board an aircraft in the United States. This has everybody in the state rushing to the DMV trying to get this NEW LICENSE and most of the DMV offices are closed due to the Covid-19 virus.

In regards to boarding an aircraft in the US. This is misinformation by the state. You can board an aircraft is with a valid US Passport.

California is more screwed up than a wooden watch.

 

[gsxr]

Terry, due to COVID, the REAL ID requirements for boarding aircraft were changed to Oct-2021. After that time, you need either REAL ID, or a passport. This had been Oct-2020 but was bumped out a year:

REAL ID | Homeland Security

www.tsa.gov

✈

 

[TerryA]

Terry, due to COVID, the REAL ID requirements for boarding aircraft were changed to Oct-2021. After that time, you need either REAL ID, or a passport. This had been Oct-2020 but was bumped out a year:

REAL ID | Homeland Security

www.tsa.gov

✈

Dave,

I'm aware of that but this state has become a real PITA to live in and it's to late for me to move out.

I could care less about the REAL ID. My wife got one after going down to DMV four or five times just to prove who she was. Was she pissed!

UPDATE: BTW, I guess i failed to mention, I and my wife have had US Passports for the last 20 years and are working on the 3rd 10 year installment at this time. Not that it matters with Covid-19 out there we do not plan on traveling anywhere until it is 100% safe to do so. We may at sometime rent a motor home and do some US touring. At least that way you have some control of your fate.

lol

 

[gerryvz]

The "RealID" driver's license mandate has been around for many years. The Federal Government has extended the deadlines MULTIPLE times. In my opinion, any state who is not yet on board with that mandate, and has not issued licenses to its people that are RealID-compliant, is 100% responsible of mis-management of the issue (and incompetence), and should have to suffer the consequences. This problem should have been taken care of by these states a long time ago -- long long long before COVID caused complications.

Because of COVID, the government has extended the deadline for RealID enforcement by a year, to October, 2021.

Acting Secretary Chad Wolf Statement on the REAL ID Enforcement Deadline | Homeland Security

Due to circumstances resulting from the COVID-19 pandemic and the national emergency declaration, the Department of Homeland Security, as directed by President Donald J. Trump, is extending the REAL ID enforcement deadline beyond the current October 1, 2020 deadline. I have determined that...

www.dhs.gov

I have lived in Maryland for three years come this October. I have had a RealID since I moved here and exchanged my Texas driver's license for a Maryland one. I also had a RealID when I lived in Texas as of late 2016 -- almost FOUR years ago. My now-expired Texas concealed-carry handgun permit (CHL) was NOT RealID-compliant.

 

[gerryvz]

it's to late for me to move out.

It's never too late to move. I see a lot of folks from the Mid-Atlantic states (New York down to Virginia) going to Florida, where taxes and the cost of living are much lower, and the state is better-run. The amount of Florida license plates I see cruising around here in Maryland is astounding.

I actually have just about made the decision that we are going to head NORTH for retirement, to Maine. Build a custom home on the water. More moderate temperatures, much less crowding, and a great culture. We're soon going to be heading up there on the first of several vacations + scouting trips as to where we potentially create our new homestead. We'll keep our new home here in Annapolis -- we are so close to the Naval Academy that we can put it on the Housing Registry and rent it out to Naval officers for far more $$$ than our mortgage is. Naval officers = high quality renters.

 

[Bogeyman]

I love the Maine coast, especially around Camden.
They supposedly have more shoreline than California.

 

[gerryvz]

They supposedly have more shoreline than California.

Bingo!

 

[LWB250]

Rather than hijack another thread where this came up, I felt that it was relevant here, so I'll post...

My employer, our county, has been struggling with how to manage employees under the current situation. That is, trying to figure out who will or won't return to an office environment, and if so, what that environment will look like.

We currently have a 28 story building in downtown Tampa of which 15 floors are (were) occupied by various County divisions, some taking up a whole floor or more. We have untold "satellite" offices of all sorts throughout the county as well. The majority of these employees are now working remotely from home, and have been since the COVID situation began. Better yet, we're working from home quite nicely, for the most part. Productivity appears to be improved and the employees have a very high approval rating of their work environment.

We've been through a number of iterations of surveys to see who needs/wants to come back and who doesn't. Managers and directors are determining what positions have no need to return and could work remotely 100% of the time. The main intent is to establish what office space will be needed and if we need to decrease our footprint and real estate holdings. This still hasn't been settled.

But - this begs the question - if I can work remotely 100% of the time, do I have to be in the immediate area? That is, could I move out of the area and continue to perform my duties?

This came up in a recent policy discussion where I broached the subject, as I would seriously consider becoming a seasonal resident of the area if I didn't have to live here year 'round. It caused some consternation because current policy says you have to be available for "face to face" meetings. My point was that our current arrangement (Microsoft Teams/WebEx) is face to face, isn't it?

I'm curious if others have encountered similar situations in their employment and how it's being addressed or dealt with. My feeling is, if I can do my job remotely, what difference does it make where I'm physically located? And it's not like plenty of other employers haven't already dealt with this even prior to COVID...

Dan

 

[gsxr]

But - this begs the question - if I can work remotely 100% of the time, do I have to be in the immediate area? That is, could I move out of the area and continue to perform my duties?

If you can work remotely where you are now, you could do the same anywhere in the world, assuming you have adequate broadband and don't mind the time zone changes.

That said - my employer mentioned a few other factors THEY care about, which employees may not:

• Salary ranges may be different in another state, either higher or lower. A local government might not be prepared to deal with this, although it's probably one of the smaller hurdles. It's more of an issue at national or global companies which have strict rules around salary ranges; you might get a pay cut if you move from city to rurals, which should be a plus for them.
  
  
• They mentioned medical/dental benefits being an issue, I assume for cost of benefits and different medical providers in different states. I'm not sure how big of a deal this is.
  
  
• Taxes could be an issue, again more for a state/local government, who may not want to deal with income tax withholding from another state.

Might be some other stuff I'm forgetting. But in general, I'm hoping the COVID silver lining will be a more portable workforce, with more employers willing to accept remote workers. Telework had fallen out of favor thanks to Yahoo and HP circa 2012-2014, with their "back to the cube farm" initiatives. Other companies climbed on that bandwagon touting BS about collaboration and whatnot. For a handful of corner case jobs, yeah, in-person teams may work better. But an awful lot of people don't need to drive to the office and sit next to their co-worker to be productive or effective.

 

[LWB250]

If you can work remotely where you are now, you could do the same anywhere in the world, assuming you have adequate broadband and don't mind the time zone changes.

That said - my employer mentioned a few other factors THEY care about, which employees may not:

• Salary ranges may be different in another state, either higher or lower. A local government might not be prepared to deal with this, although it's probably one of the smaller hurdles. It's more of an issue at national or global companies which have strict rules around salary ranges; you might get a pay cut if you move from city to rurals, which should be a plus for them.
  
  
• They mentioned medical/dental benefits being an issue, I assume for cost of benefits and different medical providers in different states. I'm not sure how big of a deal this is.
  
  
• Taxes could be an issue, again more for a state/local government, who may not want to deal with income tax withholding from another state.

Might be some other stuff I'm forgetting. But in general, I'm hoping the COVID silver lining will be a more portable workforce, with more employers willing to accept remote workers. Telework had fallen out of favor thanks to Yahoo and HP circa 2012-2014, with their "back to the cube farm" initiatives. Other companies climbed on that bandwagon touting BS about collaboration and whatnot. For a handful of corner case jobs, yeah, in-person teams may work better. But an awful lot of people don't need to drive to the office and sit next to their co-worker to be productive or effective.

All relevant points, however, in our case:

1.) I'm not sure how salaries, wherever you work, would matter. You want to move or live in another area, then be prepared. That's one that falls at the feet of the employee.

2.) I can see medical insurance being an issue. Maybe you would have to opt out if you chose to move out of the area?In my case, the wife's employer (who just happens to be a division of one of the largest major medical insurers in the U.S.) wouldn't care, as they're literally everywhere. I would opt out and use her insurance as I do now, since it's a far better deal than my employer's plan.

3.) Again, this is a matter of convenience. Yes, it would involve more effort for the employer due to the different tax situations that would unfold as employees spread out to other states, but again, they wouldn't be the first employer to have to deal with this.

I could see them making out of the state remote work contingent on certain arrangements, or on a case by case review. In our situation, there is no income tax in Florida, and if my primary residence is Florida that's where my income would be taxed regardless of where I live on a part-time basis, I presume. You want medical coverage? Then you'll be out of network.

It's definitely a complex issue, but it's nothing new. Only a small subset of employers have been dealing with these issues up until now - maybe it's time more of them will need to step up and do the same.

Along the same lines, the County and no doubt other employers are begin confronted with employees who want reimbursement for Internet access (not a requirement for employment currently) or office supplies, for example. These are real land mines as far as policy, because an employer doesn't need or want to be on the hook for your internet bill or your toner cartridges.

I say this because I've had to deal with it as a director, and as I've explained to employees who have asked about such things, I ask them how much money they save a month since they're not commuting? What about the cost of (work) clothing? Lunches? The value of their time relative to commuting?

When they start to look at the big picture, their ISP bill pales in comparison to the dollars they're saving. I've yet to have someone challenge me on this.

Dan

 

[PJmak]

Stinson Beach this past weekend. Social distancing is in full effect

 

[LWB250]

Stinson Beach this past weekend. Social distancing is in full effect

Darwin Award stuff.

Dan

 

[gerryvz]

@LWB250:

My personal belief is that if one has a job that is involved with / supporting a state or local government, then one should live within that jurisdiction, or at least somewhere near it. Meaning if I had a job in Wilmington, Delaware, I would probably want to live in Maryland, South-eastern PA, or southern New Jersey so that I would be within a reasonable commute.

I know that IT-related jobs can often be done from anywhere. Especially so if you're a developer or other type of job that doesn't require direct access to IT resources. But if you're supporting data centers and associated infrasturcture hardware, software, and middleware, I'd think that physical access to the facilities would be a reasonable expectation of an employer. For a cloud-based infrastructure, this obviously is not a requirement.

I think if I was say, an IT leader for the State of Maryland here in Annapolis, I'd want my IT teams to be within a reasonable commute, and not living in Texas or Washington State. Perhaps not having to come into the office daily, but at least be somewhat close.

My last couple of employers, and the type of work I do ... all I need is a cell phone and a WiFi connection, and I can (and do) do my job from anywhere in the world. Actually I don't like working remotely, and have always made an attempt to go into the office at least a couple or three days per week. Except the past couple of years, here in Maryland, because we got a puppy and we did not feel comfortable leaving him at home alone, or crated, all day while we were working.

COVID has allowed Laura to work from home at least a couple of days per week, sometimes three days per week, but her job as a heavy construction project manager requires her to be on-site at the facilities that she is overseeing projects at, with regularity, to crack the whip on construction firms and sub-contractors to keep things on time and on budget. Currently she is managing all capital construction projects at two hospitals -- MedStar Southern Maryland, just a stone's throw from Andrews Air Force Base, and at MedStar St. Mary's Hospital, in southern Maryland. So she is visiting them at least once per week each, sometimes twice per week. Southern is a 45-minute commute for her each way; St. Mary's is 1.5 hours' drive each way. I stay home with the dog

Fortunately I left the @gsxr's employer (I worked there 7.5 years) just as they were starting to really crack the whip on insisting that employees come into the office four days per week. My current employer encourages all employees to work remotely (and always has, even pre-COVID). So nothing changes for me, except I don't get on jet planes the 30-40% of the time I used to. And we have the choice to use Macs or PCs (I choose to use a Mac).

One certainly saves a TON of time and money per month not commuting and going into the office, when working remote. And no question that people are more productive, and schedules are more flexible. I try to shut down for the night by 6:30 PM. I'm in my home office at 6:00 AM, scanning work email (but more administering the forum and zapping the occasional overnight spammers), but don't start in earnest with work until 8:00 AM.

Good luck with your quest to move and work remotely. You'd be right at home up here in Maryland; I'd say that a good 3% of the cars on the road here have Florida license plates.

 

[PJmak]

I work in IT also and I've been working remotely until a few weeks ago. Now I come in one week out of the month and I honestly dont see the reason for it. Everything I do here, I can do from anywhere.

I am with help desk but all of our other teams(web, server, projects....) they are all 100 working from home.

 

[LWB250]

I don't disagree with the proximity issue when it's a local government, but my point is that why would that be any different than a local business? In my case I'm not looking to totally bail, just be out of state part of the year. I would maintain my residency in Florida, much as a lot of so called "snowbirds" do, in order to take advantage of the nice "winter" weather and tax breaks.

I haven't really looked into it closely, but I know that Florida laws states that if you work here continuously for 90 days, I believe, then the State considers you a resident and expects you to engage in things like titling/registering your vehicle, for example. Quite honestly I don't see how they can enforce this unless someone does it voluntarily, but knowing this I have to suspect other states may do the same.

If I had to come back for say, a week at a stretch to break things up I would gladly do so. That would be a minor inconvenience.

The County provides HP Windoze based hardware, but I work from home on my Mac Pro using VDI. I could use a persistent VDI desktop that I have, but it's easier to use VDI as a "jump box" to my laptop, which is security docked on my desk in the office. We have VPN options as well if we want to use them.

We'll see how this plays out. I don't see it taking place any time soon. That being said, it's a conversation they're going to have to have at some point in the near future, however. I can't be the first person pondering a way to work in this manner.

Dan