Fuel tank issues

[Jlaa]

Does anyone have a picture of the car with the charcoal cannister exposed? I'd like to see what is replaceable / should be replaced once the fender is off. I have the EPC open now and am shopping.

BTW @gsxr - EPC master - which part do I order for part #80? Is it 117-078-04-81 or 000-987-27-27? Thanks.

 

[darek_u]

Here you go. Not sure if it will help though...

 

[Jlaa]

Here you go. Not sure if it will help though...

View attachment 126917View attachment 126918

Thanks. Good Enough! I have looked up all the parts numbers for my chassis number and am placing diagram here for anyone else who needs to order parts. Just a note on my nomenclature -- I ordered everything from MB unless otherwise specified (from Pelican Parts), and "+" means I already have the part on hand.

EDIT -- Note @gerryvz @gsxr -- I noticed that part #38, which is 124-471-56-15, seems to be no longer available on two parts revolution sites - Ed Hicks and SF Benz.

 

[gsxr]

BTW @gsxr - EPC master - which part do I order for part #80? Is it 117-078-04-81 or 000-987-27-27? Thanks.

That looks like an EPC error, or at least EPC information shortage. You may need to order one of each and figure out which is needed, if not both.

Thanks. Good Enough! I have looked up all the parts numbers for my chassis number and am placing diagram here for anyone else who needs to order parts. Just a note on my nomenclature -- I ordered everything from MB unless otherwise specified (from Pelican Parts), and "+" means I already have the part on hand.

EDIT -- Note @gerryvz @gsxr -- I noticed that part #38, which is 124-471-56-15, seems to be no longer available on two parts revolution sites - Ed Hicks and SF Benz.

Nice work, Jlaa! Note that pipe #38 is, I believe, a formed metal tube from the rear of the car to the front. Doesn't surprise me that it's NLA. It can be replicated using generic coated metric tubing, same as the other fuel pipes. I'm trying to remember if this is the one @Rain needed to replace on his car, or if it was someone else, or a different pipe...

 

[DarkStar]

So I cut open my old tank. Here’s what I found.
My strainer was non existent, screen was gone.
the housing that encapsulated the strainer has a line that feeds it from the return feed. That rubber line was brittle and broken. It also has a vent that is 10 inches up from the bottom that handles overflow I think.
The vent line connects to a rather complex vent system on the top of the tank. The line is rubber and was brittle, broken and I have to believe if my tank was filled up over half it would bleed down into the vent system and probably did some damage to the vent valve.
had I replaced my vent valve and strainer I may never have seen the damaged tubing inside the tank. It likely would fail again.

It’s really sad that MB no longer sells the tank.
the 1995 300E diesel tank I found is definitely different in the way it vents and handles the return fuel flow. I also discovered that my reasonably clean junkyard find had a small algae farm growing in the return housing that holds the strainer. Glad I cleaned out the tank and had the opportunity to see inside of the return housing.

 

[Kyiv]

So, a replacement charcoal canister and a small elbow vent valve, would have prevented this disaster, or we don't know for sure?

 

[Rain]

So, a replacement charcoal canister and a small elbow vent valve, would have prevented this disaster, or we don't know for sure?

It’s very likely, yes. Especially the vent valve. Vent valve, charcoal canister, breather line, and screen are all a good idea to keep in good shape. Not Mac else can lead to tank implosion/collapse.

 

[DarkStar]

Actually the failed tubing inside the tank was going to be the nail in the casket but definitely do the maintenance on the valve and strainer.

 

[darek_u]

Can someone tell me what is the OD of the short rubber hoses for breather valve? I marked them with arrows (picture courtesy of ENO). I have bag full of these hose clamps circled green, just wondering if I have right size.

 

[mercepor]

Mercedes W124 500E Tank Kraftstofftank A1244709501 | eBay

Finden Sie Top-Angebote für Mercedes W124 500E Tank Kraftstofftank A1244709501 bei eBay. Kostenlose Lieferung für viele Artikel!

www.ebay.de

no affiliation

 

[darek_u]

730EUR discounted for second hand tank... This world is going crazy or I just don't follow fast enough...

 

[DarkStar]

Can someone tell me what is the OD of the short rubber hoses for breather valve? I marked them with arrows (picture courtesy of ENO). I have bag full of these hose clamps circled green, just wondering if I have right size.

View attachment 127772

I believe ID is 9.5mm OD must be 15-16

 

[Jlaa]

Can someone tell me what is the OD of the short rubber hoses for breather valve? I marked them with arrows (picture courtesy of ENO). I have bag full of these hose clamps circled green, just wondering if I have right size.

View attachment 127772

In post 53, I wrote down the diameters that the EPC gave me for both of those hoses. (it is in the drawing.) Hope this helps.

 

[DarkStar]

Vent valve is the most overwhelmingly likely. I haven’t looked into it deeply enough yet, but I’m also wondering if a previously fuel soaked and now “concrete“ charcoal canister can’t cause this.

After inspecting my tank it may be the broken (hardened dry rubber) vent line and fuel return may have caused leaking and factored into the tank collapse.

 

[gsxr]

FYI - forum member @david hendy has a used 90L diesel tank for sale, shoot him a PM if you need one.

 

[captruff]

I think I have a used 500E tank in the warehouse. I'll need to look for it to confirm.

Jeff

 

[Randy Crooks]

So a few weeks ago I tried to remove the sending unit. Could not get it out through the hole.

today a friend let me use a lift.

plan was to replace rubber lines, vent and main feed to fuel pumps.

I ended up pulling the tank instead of the subframe. Will save that for another day.

after pulling the tank it was apparent the tank was slightly caved in from improper venting.

Think I’m screwed...

I may be able to reverse the damage to the tank.
time will tell.

You can save that tank, if you have access to an autobody stud welder and a small slide hammer you can pull the sheet metal back to its original shape. I often just MIG weld (Carpenters) wood spikes with the heads pointing away from the sheet metal and then you can hook your slide hammer on the head of the nail. If that won't work I'd cut the tank in two and hammer out the damage or use a hydraulic porter power and then weld the tank back together. If these tanks are no longer available I'd put the effort in to fixing your old one, any decent body repairman can handle this repair.

 

[gsxr]

You can save that tank, if you have access to an autobody stud welder and a small slide hammer you can pull the sheet metal back to its original shape. I often just MIG weld (Carpenters) wood spikes with the heads pointing away from the sheet metal and then you can hook your slide hammer on the head of the nail. If that won't work I'd cut the tank in two and hammer out the damage or use a hydraulic porter power and then weld the tank back together. If these tanks are no longer available I'd put the effort in to fixing your old one, any decent body repairman can handle this repair.

If it's not leaking, this may work. I'm not sure what the lifespan is on repairing (welding?) cracks which often accompany the collapsed tank.

 

[DarkStar]

I probably could have and maybe should have tried to save it. I used air to expand it but it was heavily damaged along the line where it caved in. Then it was blown out about 3 inches so it was a huge fail. I should have had a body man who knew what he was doing fix it.

 

[gsxr]

I still have the failed tank I replaced 10 years ago. I was going to cut it open, take some photos, and discard it. Great, now I'll probably need to save it. Grrrr. Besides needing to be expanded, it also needs to have a tiny hairline crack welded - if that's not fixable, then I guess it's junk.

 

[Jlaa]

Thanks. Good Enough! I have looked up all the parts numbers for my chassis number and am placing diagram here for anyone else who needs to order parts. Just a note on my nomenclature -- I ordered everything from MB unless otherwise specified (from Pelican Parts), and "+" means I already have the part on hand.

EDIT -- Note @gerryvz @gsxr -- I noticed that part #38, which is 124-471-56-15, seems to be no longer available on two parts revolution sites - Ed Hicks and SF Benz.

View attachment 126921

For future reference sake, I received parts 000-987-987-26-27 and 000-987-27-27. Indeed both of these are plastic pipes (by the meter). As well, I have received 120-078-01-81 which is a rubber 90* elbow, a little different than the line drawing in the EPC:


As well I have received the charcoal cannister, part 124-470-03-59. It feels indestructible in your hand, a total relic of old-school Mercedes engineering/manufacturing. It is a beast of a part which is quite heavy in the hand; perhaps 3-4 pounds. It is all steel, and excessively packed. Why can't the whole car be made so excessively?

 

[DarkStar]

I still have the failed tank I replaced 10 years ago. I was going to cut it open, take some photos, and discard it. Great, now I'll probably need to save it. Grrrr. Besides needing to be expanded, it also needs to have a tiny hairline crack welded - if that's not fixable, then I guess it's junk.

If you know how to weld, you can probably save any tank. Just cut out any deformed/weakened metal after you pull tank back to shape. Then weld in new metal. Rebuild the vent lines inside before you put it back together.

 

[darek_u]

Jlaa what is the price of new charcoal canister if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Rain]

I suppose it depends not only on one’s ability to weld, but also one’s preference for perfection. Because what I heard, often, from many sources, when I was suffering through the arduous frustration of three separate tanks, was that it’s essentially almost impossible to get a tank to be repaired to a state that looks completely normal—especially after it’s collapsed. That said, best of luck to you! I sincerely hope it works out.

 

[Jlaa]

Jlaa what is the price of new charcoal canistwr if don't mind me asking?

No problem. $52 USD + tax for me with no shipping costs as I picked it up from a local dealer.

 

[DarkStar]

It’s very likely, yes. Especially the vent valve. Vent valve, charcoal canister, breather line, and screen are all a good idea to keep in good shape. Not Mac else can lead to tank implosion/collapse.

Did you see the pictures from inside my tank? The rubber vent lines had failed. My vent works as designed. But every time I filled the tank over half it would flood the vent line.

 

[Kridre]

For anyone wondering if charcoal filters might go NLA shortly I'm bringing positive news. There is around 500psc of it in Germany so don't worry, for now. My local dealer quoted me around $120 for it and that's with 12% discount...

 

[DarkStar]

For anyone wondering if charcoal filters might go NLA shortly I'm bringing positive news. There is around 500psc of it in Germany so don't worry, for now. My local dealer quoted me around $120 for it and that's with 12% discount...

Everything going NLA!

 

[Pat]

Did you see the pictures from inside my tank? The rubber vent lines had failed. My vent works as designed. But every time I filled the tank over half it would flood the vent line.

I did see your photos from inside the tank, I too have the problem of gasoline passing through the vent valve and then leaking out of the charcoal filter when I have more than half a tank, thanks to your photos I see why.

Has anyone replaced the broken hoses inside the tank through the fuel level float hole?

Another alternative would be to use a wye at the fuel return line and connect the vent line to the return line, but then I suppose excess pressure may build inside the tank.

I suppose too that a new tank is not available. Any other solutions? I suppose cutting the tank open to repair the vent hoses then having it welded back together is a possibility.