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Has anyone seen this detailing sequence?
- Thread starter gerryvz
- Start date
You REALLY need to know what your doing anytime sanding is involved. With a used car you don't know existing paint levels and or what might have been repainted. Very easy to burn through your clear coat.
Based on what I saw of those pictures, the paint wasn't really bad enough to justify that kind of risk. Griots polishing compound 1-3 probably would of been enough to get the paint restored.
Based on what I saw of those pictures, the paint wasn't really bad enough to justify that kind of risk. Griots polishing compound 1-3 probably would of been enough to get the paint restored.
That is pretty amazing. Truthfully I have always thought that the factory paint on my car was fairly poor for an $80K car. The paint on the flare of one of the front fenders is downright bad, and I know it is original. If I found someone like that detailer guy in my area I would spend the money for that type of job. I don't think a Griots progression would have worked - I've tried it with my car.
Rgds,
Chris
Rgds,
Chris
It doe work, you need to use a power buffer. Did this on a 6.9 my friend has great stuff!
I agree. The operation performed was essentially what's called "color sanding". Very labor intensive & best handled by one with years of body work experience. Somewhat of a last resort before plunging in for a re-paint.
Usually the poor visual appearance is the clear coat layer which has taken an ass-kicking from the elements over the years. The color coat may very well be intact underneath. True color sanding addresses the color layer & takes an artist's touch using multipli-increasingly finer grits of sandpaper to get right.
Adding to what 2phast mentions, a couple hundred dollars spent on something like a Griot's detailing kit including machine polishes #1 thru #3 may be all that's needed. Griot's insists it is impossible to burn thru your finish using their products. A safe first choice for a DIYer.
The end result may easily equal that of the several thousand dollar sanding job. It's an inexpensive way to determine if your car actually needs to go all the way or not. At the very least, you will have an excellent detailing kit to help keep your car looking good for years to come after detailing one way or the other.
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True, assuming your using a orbital buffer not a circular buffer.
Griot's are all orbitals. Only way to go.
That's a very nice, but expensive, detail job. The previous condition was nasty enough to warrant this job and it did increase the appeal and value of this car. I'm assuming this guy used a paint thickness gauge before he went at it with the wet sanding. I don't think machine compound and polish alone would've leveled off that paint good enough. Here is another 500E job posted on the same forum from 2006.
Not really, no way to generate enough pressure or heat with a orbital. Circular is the only way to go, but in the hands of the inexperienced its just as dangerous as sanding the paint. I use both, but the orbital is mainly used for light buffing and wax. Heavy duty work is done with the circular.
I agree with this post here: http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forum...y-Pic-Heavy!!!&p=468687&viewfull=1#post468687
This was repainted for sure. No Benz factory color ever looks so orange peel like, even with severe letting-down the paint caring for decades.
Other than that, the Results are very great. He really had to sand it, with that kind of thick orange-peel. Is the only chance you have, because no cutting polish, no matter how "strong" the abrasives are in it, could have created such a result.
This was repainted for sure. No Benz factory color ever looks so orange peel like, even with severe letting-down the paint caring for decades.
Other than that, the Results are very great. He really had to sand it, with that kind of thick orange-peel. Is the only chance you have, because no cutting polish, no matter how "strong" the abrasives are in it, could have created such a result.
I bought my 69 280SL knowing it would be a project. It ran and drove well, had original interior and rust was minimal, but the paint (db180 silver) was somewhere between gloss and the matte finisher you see on the new ones. It was worse than the example in this thread with dirt, bugs, etc in the finish. I have experience with detailing finishes but have never owned a high speed buffer. I am on my second Griots orbital and have been using that system for 10-15 years on many cars I have owned.
Well, I figured I had nothing to lose as if I couldn't bring the paint back it would be a strip/refinish the whole car, so I started in an inconspicuous spot with 2000 grit sandpaper followed by the 4 stages of Griot's polish. I couldn't believe how the paint flattened with the sandpaper and then polished to an almost perfect result with the polishes using the orbital buffer. I never used any coarser sandpaper than 2000 and was very careful to not cut through the clearcoat on corners, high points, etc. After MANY HOURS of sanding and then polishing I finished the whole car with similar results as this demo. People who have seen the car before/after think it has been repainted.
I would never try to achieve the same results with a high speed buffer - I know there are some who can but definitely not for the inexperienced or inattentive.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to Pebble Beach with this result but it is an achievable result if you are careful and willing to invest the time to do it correctly.
Well, I figured I had nothing to lose as if I couldn't bring the paint back it would be a strip/refinish the whole car, so I started in an inconspicuous spot with 2000 grit sandpaper followed by the 4 stages of Griot's polish. I couldn't believe how the paint flattened with the sandpaper and then polished to an almost perfect result with the polishes using the orbital buffer. I never used any coarser sandpaper than 2000 and was very careful to not cut through the clearcoat on corners, high points, etc. After MANY HOURS of sanding and then polishing I finished the whole car with similar results as this demo. People who have seen the car before/after think it has been repainted.
I would never try to achieve the same results with a high speed buffer - I know there are some who can but definitely not for the inexperienced or inattentive.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to Pebble Beach with this result but it is an achievable result if you are careful and willing to invest the time to do it correctly.
The guy has done exactly that ;-)Well, IMHO if i would make such a work- i would sand that coat completely mirror-like, germans call it " remove cellulite"
But, as said, Result is very interesting, not for everyone...
1000 grid - 2000 grid - polish.
In German paint-shops this was a standard procedure, when the new Acrylic HS or UHS Clearcoat Systems were introduced and the guys didn't add a bit thinner to the mixture because of the lame VOC <420g/L rules. The (U)HS Clearcoats tend to have a bad "flow" when they land on the parts. 10-15% added thinner does solve this usually, but has some disadvantages like its forbidden because it then exceeds the VOC limit and the 1 to 1.5 layers recommend by the manufacturer is then to be replaced by full 2 coats of clear, otherwise the desired dry-film thickness is not achieved.
But thats a whole different story. I have painted cars years ago, have a professional car-painter in my family and have lots of high-quality paint guns (Sata RP2000, Devilbis GTI Pro with HVLP and Trans-tech air-caps, all nozzle sizes from 1.1mm to 1.8mm, etc)
Than he failed completely
Actually not, the finish is like a mirror. You can never get this finish with ordinary polish and waxing on that kind of color.
Trust me, my 500E also is almost glossy like a mirror, but not that much like in the linked forums topic.
And for my finish it took me a medium sized "Sponge" (dunno if that the correct word in english) with a medium cut polish, followed by low cut high-gloss polish with a waffled soft "sponge", followed by a premium carnauba wax. Still it does not look that "even" and mirror-like, like in the pics linked.
He achieved it to get the usual factory "Narbenhafte Struktur" (eng probably: Honeycomb structure) completely out of the paint. Sure i have also seen even better gloss, especially on pure deep non-metallic black in some crazy detailing Forums, but the results here are very good IMHO.
I'd say for a DB199 color like here, its as good as you can get. A good wax probably would even enhance it a bit...
Keep in mind even with the perfect-flow old MS (Medium Solid) Acrylic clears, fresh painted DB199 not even looks like that, not at all, not even close.
Christian: I mihgt be misreading your post, but it sounds like you got orange peel out without sanding, just with polish? I didn't know you could do that without sanding ("honey comb" is called orange peel here). But, if you are starting with sanding, then yes, cool, and right on. That's a nice finish.
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No.In the article - is that Dr. No's car?
No, i said that he even manged to get smoother than the factory pattern. So not only that he managed to get rid of that medium orange peel, no he went so smooth that you can't see the factory patterns anymore.
In Germany painters vary between two things: Orange peel (We Say "Orangenhaut") and Honeycomb-Structure (We say "Narbige Strucktur", eng: scarred structure). One is a clear defect here, which is the Orange Peel, the scarred structure on the other hand is *if anyway* a veeeery mild defect.
The Problem painters have these days is, that this scarred structure (which EVERY Factory painted car has) has intensified as manufacturers spraying even thinner and thinner coat thicknesses, also the modern factory paint application mechanisms, tend to produce these structures. BMW for instance has this problems very strong on their newer cars, from the 1er up to the 5er Series, while strange enough their 6er and 7er Series are not affected. Speculation is that the real expensive cars get a different paint-job in the factory.
Now, if someone with such a car has a crash, or just wants some parts of his car repainted in the same color, painters have trouble in "reconstructure" those "patterns" on the repainted parts, so you will later always see a difference - the repainted surface is more even than the factory parts.
Christian, by all respect- this guy could have done better work.
This is my car after usual polishing
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036, i honestly believe that this guys finish is more smooth and glossy than yours. The front Fender area always looks glossy on the E500Es, even after a normal carwash if the paint is not in a bad shape. But still i can clearly recognize the spray pattern on your fender. Look closely at the edges of that white building which is mirroring in your Fender.
But if your really want to compare it, please take pictures from identical/similar perspectives like that guy did on his finish. I mean alone the Trunk looks like a true mirror, never saw that smoothness and reflectiveness on any E500E with paint color DB199, not even on DB040 (Deep Black)
But if your really want to compare it, please take pictures from identical/similar perspectives like that guy did on his finish. I mean alone the Trunk looks like a true mirror, never saw that smoothness and reflectiveness on any E500E with paint color DB199, not even on DB040 (Deep Black)
Hi Christian,
I understand what you mean (orange peel Vs paint patterns). The pattern is also different between various paint manufacturers (Glasurite,PPG,debeers...)
My 500E was sanded completely when resprayed the front end (199 Glasurite) to match the pattern, no body can tell which parts were painted and which were not!
Here is the car after: 1-Rubbing compound, 2-Sonax liquid polish, 3- Maguire's Gold class wax. Result was a deep Color with mirror shine.
I understand what you mean (orange peel Vs paint patterns). The pattern is also different between various paint manufacturers (Glasurite,PPG,debeers...)
My 500E was sanded completely when resprayed the front end (199 Glasurite) to match the pattern, no body can tell which parts were painted and which were not!
Here is the car after: 1-Rubbing compound, 2-Sonax liquid polish, 3- Maguire's Gold class wax. Result was a deep Color with mirror shine.
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Interesting stuff Gerry,
Not sure I understand the honey comb reference Christian. Are you talking about the metallic which is pressure/humidity and thinning dependent? I always though that could be matched well, if blending and test panels were done. That takes time and I haven't seen a shop do test panels.. but I don't hang around body shops these days and don't know anyone working at one either.
That car looks great.. but I'd question if doing 3 sets of color-sanding is necessary to acieve those results. I would have just done 1500 grit and I always used an air powered buffer with the 3M finishing(yellow wool) pad. I use a fine 3M imperial product and get flawless depth, no swirls, no burn through. You have to run the buffer into an edge instead of dropping it off the edge to cause burn through. I never had burn through on any car I've buffed/polished. And I don't have *years* of experience. You need to be clean, knowledgable and be willing to go slow.
I always though a little bit of the abrasive/paint debris seemed necessary to get the final shine. Too clean, or to dirty of a pad.. no good.
All this modern sand paper stuff is amazing.. you can get diamond lapping paper which is 8000 grit! It wasn't long ago when the finest paper was 600 grit. You rubbed 2 pieces together to wear it down a bit before color sanding imiron. Lacquer was fine with 600 grit.
If I was going ot get my 500e painted. I'd spend some time blocking the car prior to painting and doing some minor filling to make things more fare(fair?). I'm afraid that if I re-did a few doors, the prepwork would make them stand out without redoing them all.
I found for general waxing the products and advice here gave me better results:
http://store.carcareonline.com/howto_articles.aspx
Michael
Not sure I understand the honey comb reference Christian. Are you talking about the metallic which is pressure/humidity and thinning dependent? I always though that could be matched well, if blending and test panels were done. That takes time and I haven't seen a shop do test panels.. but I don't hang around body shops these days and don't know anyone working at one either.
That car looks great.. but I'd question if doing 3 sets of color-sanding is necessary to acieve those results. I would have just done 1500 grit and I always used an air powered buffer with the 3M finishing(yellow wool) pad. I use a fine 3M imperial product and get flawless depth, no swirls, no burn through. You have to run the buffer into an edge instead of dropping it off the edge to cause burn through. I never had burn through on any car I've buffed/polished. And I don't have *years* of experience. You need to be clean, knowledgable and be willing to go slow.
I always though a little bit of the abrasive/paint debris seemed necessary to get the final shine. Too clean, or to dirty of a pad.. no good.
All this modern sand paper stuff is amazing.. you can get diamond lapping paper which is 8000 grit! It wasn't long ago when the finest paper was 600 grit. You rubbed 2 pieces together to wear it down a bit before color sanding imiron. Lacquer was fine with 600 grit.
If I was going ot get my 500e painted. I'd spend some time blocking the car prior to painting and doing some minor filling to make things more fare(fair?). I'm afraid that if I re-did a few doors, the prepwork would make them stand out without redoing them all.
I found for general waxing the products and advice here gave me better results:
http://store.carcareonline.com/howto_articles.aspx
Michael
R
Rudy
Guest
I have mine detailed once a year - mostly in fall to be prepared for the wet season