HWA Team is making modernization of W201 EVO V6 biturbo

[Draginev]

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They are making a revival of producing W201 with modern technology such as V6 Biturbos.
Carbon Body structure, DTM suspension, 550NM, V6 Twin Turbo, 6-Speed Manual, 2,980lbs… track ready street car. At a cost of 700k+ euros if I'm not mistaken.

What do you guys think?

Me personally I would prefer that they could pick W124 instead as for the better size for all variants of drivers since they are already small compared to civic. But they decided to go for W201.

 

[jhodg5ck]

There are some Issues with getting the old chassis/VIN to comply with modern regs here and in Europe. We'll see what happens.

We are moving forward on our 036/M156 with a 3rd pedal combination. I think it will work quite nicely!

jono

 

[maw1124]

We are moving forward on our 036/M156 with a 3rd pedal combination. I think it will work quite nicely!

jono

Almost seems natural... MB transmission?

It's a natural aspiration thing.

maw

 

[jhodg5ck]

Nah, BMW.... they have a better selection of manual gear boxes and TBH, superior feel too....

 

[maw1124]

Nah, BMW.... they have a better selection of manual gear boxes and TBH, superior feel too....

Most of those are either Getrag or ZF, so, from transmission specialists.

maw

 

[Draginev]

 

[Draginev]

Headlight glass looks cheap. I would prefer they had used OEM ones and turn signals. Otherwise the car looks good. The front Axle has moved a bit forward and lengthening out around all 4 wheelbase.

 

[duuder]

Looks cheap but definitely not cheap

 

[2phast]

Headlight glass looks cheap. I would prefer they had used OEM ones and turn signals. Otherwise the car looks good. The front Axle has moved a bit forward and lengthening out around all 4 wheelbase.

OEM glass is fluted, not suitable for LED or HID. Lenses would need to be clear for proper use of projectors

 

[Draginev]

HWA Team released photos in facebook. Taking drive around Switzerland. I wonder who is the first customers that payed alot.

 

[195910]

Yeah headlights could have been done better, also why no hood star!?

I approve of the price tag , A restomod project now sounds financially reasonable

 

[Draginev]

Yeah headlights could have been done better, also why no hood star!?

I approve of the price tag , A restomod project now sounds financially reasonable

I agree, no hood star. But this restomod is way overpriced. Many have succeeded the 190 restomod that cost a lot less. I wonder how much tax the germany brand has to pay?

 

[gsxr]

It's stupid expensive... but they re-engineered practically everything on the car, including a totally new front suspension, and carbon body panels... so I kinda get the cost.

Imagine what they could do with a carbon 124.036 and twin-turbo V8.

 

[Draginev]

It's stupid expensive... but they re-engineered practically everything on the car, including a totally new front suspension, and carbon body panels... so I kinda get the cost.

Imagine what they could do with a carbon 124.036 and twin-turbo V8.

At some point it won't make any sense for this amount of cost. There has been M113k, V12 and M119 swaps into 190E but didn't come at that cost. Something doesn't add up. If they are looking for profit, then yes I can understand.

 

[gsxr]

At some point it won't make any sense for this amount of cost. There has been M113k, V12 and M119 swaps into 190E but didn't come at that cost. Something doesn't add up. If they are looking for profit, then yes I can understand.

This is because they are drastically changing the body / shell / frame / suspension. Engine swaps into a standard W201 are relatively simple and cheap, by comparison. The level of modification here is many orders of magnitude more complex, plus R&D work to make the changes factory/bespoke quality & function. Add profit margin on top of it and I'm not surprised the price is upper six figures!

Inflation sucks, btw...

 

[Draginev]

This is because they are drastically changing the body / shell / frame / suspension. Engine swaps into a standard W201 are relatively simple and cheap, by comparison. The level of modification here is many orders of magnitude more complex, plus R&D work to make the changes factory/bespoke quality & function. Add profit margin on top of it and I'm not surprised the price is upper six figures!

As you said, imagine if they worked with W124.036, the demands is much higher.

 

[duuder]

At some point it won't make any sense for this amount of cost. There has been M113k, V12 and M119 swaps into 190E but didn't come at that cost. Something doesn't add up. If they are looking for profit, then yes I can understand.

yea but thats a swap! this car is for a discerning gentlemen who is a mercedes enthusiast and knows the engineering and team. like a Modern Brabus owner, this is the next level...

i got a good bet ASAP Rocky will be all over this!

 

[Draginev]

yea but thats a swap! this car is for a discerning gentlemen who is a mercedes enthusiast and knows the engineering and team. like a Modern Brabus owner, this is the next level...

i got a good bet ASAP Rocky will be all over this!

Don't get me wrong, I'm very positive about this hence why I made this thread. We need this restomod projects on the street rather than modern cars makes today. If someone is very fortunate and willing to spend this amount, by all means. the SEC project of mine will cost a lot too so who am I to complain when someone wants it.

 

[duuder]

i dream of having an Evo 2 look with an M156 but i grow tired of spending money on cars sometimes

 

[Draginev]

Information sheet about restomod 190

 

[195910]

714,000 Euro + Tax = 849,660‬ Euro !!

 

[duuder]

714,000 Euro + Tax = 849,660‬ Euro !!

i'm not surprised... if i had means, i would pretty pretty please ask if they could make mine w/ an M156 no wait, an M159 engine

 

[lowman]

714,000 Euro + Tax = 849,660‬ Euro !!

That price is just ridicilous no matter how you see it. My personal opinion is that i cannot stand the restomods coming out. Because of many things..The looks is often not just right..and i also see the restomod thing, as a manufacturer cashgrab...where the actual product never gets in the hands of the "real" enthusiasts"(i know..what is a " real" enthusiast, who am i to tell)....I know my opinion is a bit " whiney whiney"..but i just cannot get any enjoyment of such vehicles beeing made.In this case.. Id rather go to a car show..looking at a 190e 2litre diesel engined version..and be just as happy..,as i just dont like the look of this " Evo" at all. It looks like a Rieger evo3 on stereoids...and even the Rieger evo3 looks better..cause its not " overdone"
End of rant

 

[gsxr]

I get the hate about the pricetag... but y'all did see what they are doing here, right? Stripping a donor 201, dipping the entire chassis into a tank for cleaning/prep... cutting and modifying a TON of the original chassis... relocating the engine behind the front wheels... entirely new front suspension with upper+lower control arms (no funky struts) !!!!... complete roll cage for track use... and a lot more.

This isn't just an engine swap with fat fenders.

Still, even at half the cost, there are a lot of other cars I'd probably buy. The target customer is clearly anyone who doesn't care what it costs.

 

[Draginev]

That price is just ridicilous no matter how you see it. My personal opinion is that i cannot stand the restomods coming out. Because of many things..The looks is often not just right..and i also see the restomod thing, as a manufacturer cashgrab..

The price is not reasonable in this I must agree, but if one is fortunate who is willing to spend to relive the Bruno Sacco era, why not? There are customer base who is willing to purchase the Koenigsegg, Bugatti and Pagani. Some of these automakers use parts from the golden era of Bruno Sacco. This means something, that the engineers from 70s 90s where ahead of their time.

I do however wonder why you didn't see the problem where the automotive industry has been cash grabbing by experiment with EVs and other ugly ICE cars but when some actual reputable company such as HWA, Stern Garage, RENNtech is doing this restomod programs by customers request is labeled as money grabbing?

The point is, this is healthy to spark the youth and the future. Because this is a battle in the automotive industry and it is a bold move by HWA ( or other garage shops ) to attempt this resto-mod and it does come with high price.

Everyone has their preferences and their own taste, but one can't stay stuck in the past. Bruno Sacco and other engineers made great impact and shook the world that is timeless and we don't wanna leave them at all unless something is better as substitution. But just a bit internal improvement is all that is required This debate will go on forever and in conclusion, where is the actual flying cars that the 1920s kids vision what year 2000 will be?

 

[lowman]

I get the hate about the pricetag... but y'all did see what they are doing here, right? Stripping a donor 201, dipping the entire chassis into a tank for cleaning/prep... cutting and modifying a TON of the original chassis... relocating the engine behind the front wheels... entirely new front suspension with upper+lower control arms (no funky struts) !!!!... complete roll cage for track use... and a lot more.

This isn't just an engine swap with fat fenders.

Still, even at half the cost, there are a lot of other cars I'd probably buy. The target customer is clearly anyone who doesn't care what it costs.

oh yes...for sure seeing the amount of work going into these cars. For my part...i am just talking about the price " in general"...the amount is soooo high ..that its kinda scary.I mean..even if i had that kind of money...i would rather get an original evo1 or at worst an evo2...
OR just tons of other cars instead

 

[lowman]

The price is not reasonable in this I must agree, but if one is fortunate who is willing to spend to relive the Bruno Sacco era, why not? There are customer base who is willing to purchase the Koenigsegg, Bugatti and Pagani. Some of these automakers use parts from the golden era of Bruno Sacco. This means something, that the engineers from 70s 90s where ahead of their time.

I do however wonder why you didn't see the problem where the automotive industry has been cash grabbing by experiment with EVs and other ugly ICE cars but when some actual reputable company such as HWA, Stern Garage, RENNtech is doing this restomod programs by customers request is labeled as money grabbing?

The point is, this is healthy to spark the youth and the future. Because this is a battle in the automotive industry and it is a bold move by HWA ( or other garage shops ) to attempt this resto-mod and it does come with high price.

Everyone has their preferences and their own taste, but one can't stay stuck in the past. Bruno Sacco and other engineers made great impact and shook the world that is timeless and we don't wanna leave them at all unless something is better as substitution. But just a bit internal improvement is all that is required This debate will go on forever and in conclusion, where is the actual flying cars that the 1920s kids vision what year 2000 will be?

I definetly see the "problem" with cashgrabs in general for sure But its not a cashgrab when its for a customer request.But lets not get to tangled up in my whiney whiney post. Im just not fond of restomods..period,nor the ridicilous high asking prices of these cars....which is just far beyond reasonable in my world If other people are fans,..that is friggin awesome More power to " you" i would say ITs just not for me

 

[Draginev]

I definetly see the "problem" with cashgrabs in general for sure But its not a cashgrab when its for a customer request.But lets not get to tangled up in my whiney whiney post. Im just not fond of restomods..period,nor the ridicilous high asking prices of these cars....which is just far beyond reasonable in my world If other people are fans,..that is friggin awesome More power to " you" i would say ITs just not for me

I respect that.

 

[doolar]

Everyone has their preferences and their own taste, but one can't stay stuck in the past.

When it comes to cars I see no problem for people like me to stay in the past? I don’t want nor need any of the new vehicles!

 

[Draginev]

When it comes to cars I see no problem for people like me to stay in the past? I don’t want nor need any of the new vehicles!

That's why I said this after "we don't wanna leave them at all unless something is better as substitution.". There is no better substitution for good looking old benzes yet.

 

[Draginev]

 

[gsxr]

That 6-cyl exhaust note needs some work IMO. Wonder what it sounds like inside the car.

 

[Draginev]

That 6-cyl exhaust note needs some work IMO. Wonder what it sounds like inside the car.

Probably they added some damper inside with extra isolation. You will need it if you have speaker upgrades.

 

[duuder]

man... those wheels look good on that car! this thing is so clean, it looks like its cgi still

 

[TerryA]

That 6-cyl exhaust note needs some work IMO. Wonder what it sounds like inside the car.

I’m +1 w/ gsxr! I hate the exhaust at idle. It sounds like a pickup truck w/ a broken muffler. Even from the front the engine makes a lot of noise. Maybe it’s the recording devices their using.

Accelerating under power it sounds pretty good to me. The overall look is great! I love those wheels albeit I will never own a set. @TimL sold his set instead of giving them to me.

lol

 

[Draginev]

If we compare to other brand such as Nissan GT-R R35 with same specs.

 

[BRN9121]

750k is in my poor man's opinion, extreme.

 

[duuder]

i wonder how the hands on reviews will be in comparisons to the likes of singer

 

[Draginev]

 

[Draginev]

HWA Team was in Båstad, Aurora event for car show. Christian von koenigsegg was present there and made a comment about the car. Such as wolf in sheep's clothing.

 

[TimL]

I don’t know, but that massive rear wing and gigantic fender flares don’t spell “sheep’s clothing” for me

 

[Draginev]

I don’t know, but that massive rear wing and gigantic fender flares don’t spell “sheep’s clothing” for me

I do get your point. I think maybe it applies for being among super cars and hyper cars. Koenigsegg first impressions of it as a competition for being in sheeps clothing in terms of performance and technology from an old car to todays modern standard. But yes, for a Mercedes owners it doesn't look like it. For a non Mercedes it does.

 

[Rouven036]

Resisted to write some comment for this car some time but can't hold it in any longer...
For me the design doesn't work at all, there are better restomods out there which look overall more compelling. Hideous fenders and lights, silly engine, too low power output for today or at least a today's turbo engine,
Also I really don't understand how they demonstrate that car with the slk r172 drive train and automatic transmission (in one of the videos driving off you can also hear the slow up shift clearly).
The demonstrator is not ready in the interior nor does it have its claimed transaxle setup plus one of the ugliest and certainly non street legal exhaust note I heard in a while.
Desperately showing up at every car show with this half cooked meal is another thing what I wouldn't expect from hwa. Looks like they need money. Not all cars sold yet, they say around 80.
Also that the project is very heavy on them as company.
Certainly the price might be not too exaggerated. The concept of the total front end change etc is really expensive in development and production,likewise for all the technical components. Would wonder if much at all remains as profit.
They should have just a been more competent in the design and choose a proper engine. Not necessarily the big M156 but what about the high revving flat plane 4L tt v8 of the gt blacks series or if NA (as it should be imho) the 5.5l NA M172 with a proper airbox and itb setup.
Both compact and very capable units able to fulfill current emission standards, and certainly more emotional that then bread and butter M276

 

[036]

It is not selling at all.....
Not 50, not 80....someone saw a list with only 6 orders.

 

[Draginev]

It is not selling at all.....
Not 50, not 80....someone saw a list with only 6 orders.

Let me guess, monthly payment agreement?

 

[Markus-MD]

And the Cooling Fan is runnig very fast .The engine is running 1-2 or max 5 min?? Cooling system are mi mind very small and bad

 

[gsxr]

They should have just a been more competent in the design and choose a proper engine. Not necessarily the big M156 but what about the high revving flat plane 4L tt v8 of the gt blacks series or if NA (as it should be imho) the 5.5l NA M172 with a proper airbox and itb setup.
Both compact and very capable units able to fulfill current emission standards, and certainly more emotional that then bread and butter M276

This: ^^^

The base engine was, IMO, the biggest miss. I suspect they went with a V6 both for packaging and also for the pseudo-appearance of being "green". Still, ~450hp is lamesauce for €750k especially when promising more power coming in the future.

A high-revving flat-plane V8 likely would have attracted many more buyers. I bet some buyers are waiting for the 700hp variant V6 coming later.

 

[Bogeyman]

Singer Porsche values increase because of the excellence in design and execution.
These....won't.

 

[TerryA]

I agree with everything @Rouven036 said about this car. HWA is looking for investors and customers. This car will probably never see public roads.

It’s certainly not my cup of tea. $750K for something that really sounds trashy both ends (from exhaust to engine.) I agree 400HP will not be enough to motivate buyers when spending $750K.

 

[duuder]

for this price tag, they could've put in an M159. thats and an engine thats barks when i revs