Looking at a 190E Cosworth 2.5 Manual tomorrow

[JC220]

Hi all,

Some of you will know I have too many cars as it is and not enough time. But.... local MB contacts have sent a 190E Cosworth owner my details and we chatted about the car this week.

Private seller, car not advertised yet. No photos although Ill ask to take some tomorrow. What I do know is it hasn't ran in 15+ years. It has rust so requires restoration. (Right up my street really, that's what I do!!)

Its said to be all original car and interior etc in good condition. 175k miles on it - higher miles but need to check the history on it too of course.

I have never owned or worked on a 190E before. I would like some quick tips please for what to look for. To tell for starters if its a real Cosworth car. And to look for 190E common bad points if there are any? And finally are there any hard to find trim parts or similar that I should check are present?

 

[JC220]

I see one such checklist regarding rust online here -



I might bring a Noco jump pack just to able to tell what electrics work in the car such as interior lights, dash lights and window regulators etc I guess a 190E doesn't have too many electrical items.

Found this site too which tells me what the chassis no should start with etc

INFO GUIDE: 1988 - 1993 Mercedes W201 190E 2.5 16-Valve Sedan

This identification guide has been written for the Mercedes W201 190E 2.5 – 16 Valve sedan, built between 1988 and 1993. The 190E 2.5-16 was a performance based 190E, and has a significant enthusiast following, partly due to its racing heritage. Based on the standard 190E body, the 2.5-16 cars...

classicregister.com

 

[R129 UK]

I bought this book a little while ago as there was a 190E 2.5 for sale near me at the time. Sadly the car sold and I never got around to reading it but I have the R129 version by the same author and it is a good reference if you don't know the car too well:

MERCEDES-BENZ 190 (W201) Essential Buyer's Guide - Parish - small softcover book | eBay UK

Small softcover.64 pages. Condition: EX used overall.

www.ebay.co.uk

Maybe it is available as an e-book you could download?

Good luck!!!

 

[R129 UK]

There's a bit here as a preview:

Read a sample: “Mercedes-Benz 190: all 190 models (W201 series) 1982 to 1993: The Essential Buyer’s Guide”

Julian Parish

read.amazon.co.uk

 

[lowman]

For starters...please dont call it " a cosworth" It was only the UK journalists not " knowing better"(or wanting to make it count that Cosworth had a finger in this car aswell...Yes the brits are proud of their Cosworth heritage i understand..and they should be ) ..that described them as a Cosworth when they came out because of the " cylinder head work" beeing done by our beloved Cosworth
Jokes aside
There are many things to check ...first..check that the vin is starting with w201035.......035 defines it as A 2.5-16v car. The engine number is next.The first numbers defining a 2.5 16 engine,, is 102990....the serial number can be found on the left hand side of the engine block...under the inlet manifold.
I guess you do know your KEjetronc stuff..so all the ins and outs of that system needs to be checked. Check for stable idle from cold to hot. Also try to get some hot starts done so you know if you have hot start issues. Usually the fuel pressure accumulator is gone...making these cars hard to start when hot.
Fuel leaks from EHA valve on the fuel distributor is common. check all fuel lines to the injectors are there,and intact.
Gearbox /transmissionneeds to be checked.Manual Should be fairly nice to changes gears,Can be abit sloppy..but again should not be hard to use.
Automatic transmission cars tend to be more tight in the driveline,,cause they usually have been trashed around alot less than the manuals.So if it is a manual again...the rear diff might be gone at this point.
Body; rust the usual " Mercedes " areas. front wings, sills, inner front wheel housings , and the rears. Also the lower part of the rear window frame tend to rust out.'
The usual accident damage variabel should be checked out. usually the cars have had rear end damage..due to the nature of the getrag gearbox. Reverse is up to the left...leaving owners often engaging reverse,,instead of 1 gear,,which is down to the left...hence the name dog leg gearbox
Service history is a cooool and somewhat important thing..but that is up to each and everyone to decide how important it is.I think it is important.
Check the wheels. Should come with original wheels,as they tend to be "pricey " as these cars get older and older..and people tend to have got rid of them at some point.
Hopefully this is alittle " starting"point to what to look out for

 

[JC220]

Thanks for the tips above - as said in post #1 this car is a non runner. Im not going to try to start it up as its not my car and that could cause damage. The car would require recommissioning correctly which is beyond the scope of me going to check the car out.

So it'll need to be priced reflecting of its body condition and that is a non runner so total unknown in that regard until such times as it has the hours put in to see what condition it is really in. I will go take a look hoping I find a car that is all together and original. If arch spats and the likes are missing then a cheap car will turn expensive real quick.

 

[doolar]

There are currently two 2.3 16v manual for sale in Sweden, and they are listed at around £23k, both in seemingly really good condition.

I don’t know the value of these cars in the UK, but here they’re still very undervalued IMO.

Mercedes-Benz W201 190 E 2.3-16v Getrag Cosworth säljes i Jönköping | Blocket
Mercedes-Benz W201 190 E Cosworth 2.3-16 säljes i Mark | Blocket

I can be of assistance if anyone wants to get more info.

 

[alabbasi]

I have too many cars

No such thing when it comes to one of these things. Good luck with the buy

 

[JC220]

I went and seen it this morning-



It is all complete which is good. Quite alot of rust repairs need doing. But no accident damage. Engine is leaking water from a freeze plug at the rear of the cylinder head on exhaust side. I did connect a jump pack and just turned the engine on the starter a couple of times breifly. Not running just spinning over on the starter - sounded normal, making compression definitely not seized. So yeah its complete but needs alot of work im thinking about it.

 

[JC220]

So I have since carried out a HPI check which was clear. So never stolen, accident damaged and has no outstanding finance.

I told the seller I would pay his asking price today and we have a deal. Then he said he isn't sure if he really wants to sell it or not and will let me know later on tonight. Fingers crossed! Realistically there are very few people who could take on this car, so for the car's sake in terms of likelihood of it being restored I hope I do get it, otherwise it could sit for years more and deteriorate further.

 

[TerryA]

@JC220,
Looks like an ambitious project to bring her back to respectability. Plenty of rust to keep you busy for a long time but that’s one of your specialties. What’s the undercarriage like? What’s pic 3/14 of? How about the interior?

We await your decision.

 

[JC220]

@JC220,
Looks like an ambitious project to bring her back to respectability. Plenty of rust to keep you busy for a long time but that’s one of your specialties. What’s the undercarriage like? What’s pic 3/14 of? How about the interior?

We await your decision.

Sorry the photos were rushed and not very good. The 3rd one was in the "trunk" area showing general condition. Which is rusty.

So ill wait the seller telling me if he is selling it and we have a deal or if it's off in which case ill not be too annoyed either it is what it is.

 

[R129 UK]

I’m wondering if you seeing it as a viable project has given him a dose of “I know what I have here”?

Not a bad looking car (not that it is something I would or could take on myself) considering the time off the road. The arches look ok from a distance, were the jacking points ok?

I would be a little concerned about the DIY wiring because this will have had all manner of anti theft devices fitted back in the day with hidden switches etc.

I hope you get it if you really want it - if you do, I will be following your work with interest.

Great colour and could be an amazing looking car if it is saved before it degrades further. So many of the 16V were specced with an auto box which seems a travesty when a dog leg manual was available. I’m sure at that time autos were more expensive than manuals too.

 

[R129 UK]

An auto and high mileage but a decent looking car for sub £20K:

mercedes benz 190e 2.5 16v cosworth | eBay UK

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for mercedes benz 190e 2.5 16v cosworth at the best online prices at eBay UK! Free delivery for many products!

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[JC220]

I’m wondering if you seeing it as a viable project has given him a dose of “I know what I have here”?

Not a bad looking car (not that it is something I would or could take on myself) considering the time off the road. The arches look ok from a distance, were the jacking points ok?

I would be a little concerned about the DIY wiring because this will have had all manner of anti theft devices fitted back in the day with hidden switches etc.

Yes maybe he thinks he can get it sorted but he said he would "grease up" the rust and head back to Australia again. Doesn't sound like a great plan at all grease or WD40 will not stop rust.

The arches do appear sound enough and have the original arch spats still on there. The actual jack points behind the plastic are sound surprisingly but directly below them are gaping holes. 8inch or more. Not good so id be welding them up first.

The wiring doesn't concern me. It had a dealer fitted alarm which is very common and from removing many of these in my time its simple enough. The boot stuff could be to do with an aftermarket amp or something but overall the car is very original inside and out.

Still waiting to hear back.

 

[R129 UK]

I assume this applies to all cars but SLs in Oz are insane prices compared to here so maybe there is a better market out there?

 

[JC220]

View attachment 220047

I assume this applies to all cars but SLs in Oz are insane prices compared to here so maybe there is a better market out there?

I meant he would leave to Australia again not with the car. Taking the car there would be terribly expensive and probably impossible without it having a valid MOT etc

 

[JC220]

I realised I haven't explained this fully. The car was purchased 15 years ago by its current owner. He drove it for a few months and said when he bought it, it was a well sorted great running car.

He then was leaving to live in Australia but kept the car at home in Ireland. He parked it into a corner of their shed and left it covered there.

He has been away 15 years and still lives in Australia he is just home for a few weeks at the moment. During this period unbeknown to him, his Dad aparantly moved his 190E outside and left it there for years uncovered And lied to him that the car was inside still.

So im not sure exactly when but in recent years he discovered the car was outside and was fuming. He got it moved back inside but the damage of the weather here was already done. So when he left it 15 years ago it was said to be a very good condition example then through it being put outside and left there as he was away it deteriorated sadly.

The car is only 15 minutes drive from my house. Who knows what's sitting in people's garages eh!

 

[R129 UK]

I realised I haven't explained this fully. The car was purchased 15 years ago by its current owner. He drove it for a few months and said when he bought it, it was a well sorted great running car.

He then was leaving to live in Australia but kept the car at home in Ireland. He parked it into a corner of their shed and left it covered there.

He has been away 15 years and still lives in Australia he is just home for a few weeks at the moment. During this period unbeknown to him, his Dad aparantly moved his 190E outside and left it there for years uncovered And lied to him that the car was inside still.

So im not sure exactly when but in recent years he discovered the car was outside and was fuming. He got it moved back inside but the damage of the weather here was already done. So when he left it 15 years ago it was said to be a very good condition example then through it being put outside and left there as he was away it deteriorated sadly.

The car is only 15 minutes drive from my house. Who knows what's sitting in people's garages eh!

The seller sounds like a time waster tbh, hopefully I’m proved wrong.

 

[alabbasi]

Buy it and I'll send you a can of POR15. It will make it brand spanking new again

 

[JC220]

The seller sounds like a time waster tbh, hopefully I’m proved wrong.

Id say you were on the money no decision from the seller last night. So ill give it a day or two and call it done / withdraw my offer for good as when I do a deal I am ready to go 100% like agreed and an easy transaction but I have no patience for being messed around either.

 

[JC220]

I bought this book a little while ago as there was a 190E 2.5 for sale near me at the time. Sadly the car sold and I never got around to reading it but I have the R129 version by the same author and it is a good reference if you don't know the car too well:

MERCEDES-BENZ 190 (W201) Essential Buyer's Guide - Parish - small softcover book | eBay UK

Small softcover.64 pages. Condition: EX used overall.

www.ebay.co.uk

Maybe it is available as an e-book you could download?

Good luck!!!

Thanks for this, I ordered one from ebay anyway, be good to have around! I have a w201 Haynes manual too although those are limited use at the best of times.

If it's not this time around, I will most likely have a 2.3 or 2.5 16V at some point.

Update is, there is no update.

Seller still thinking about it. So im leaving it now I won't contact him again. If I hear back I have the agreed £ here ready to go and ill buy it. If not then I still have 11 other classic MBs sitting here that will keep me entertained for sure for a very long time.

 

[alabbasi]

I gave away my fist Mercedes, a 1971 250CE in 2013 to a neighbor of my parents who wanted it for parts. I bought it in 1993 when I was 19 years old and it sat outside my father's house pretty much untouched after I moved to the US in 2000.

Being in his position, I can tell you that it's possible to get attached to some things, and that sometimes it takes a while to accept the reality of the situation. It might be time wasting but he knows where you are and you know where he is.

Consider it free parking.

 

[JC220]

Hi all,

I would like to provide a tentative update on the 2.5 16V.

The seller phoned me this morning and we agreed a deal on the car I will pay a deposit this afternoon and collect it next week if all goes to plan. Fingers crossed.

If all goes to plan I will share the restoration on my owners thread so keep an eye out for that.

 

[JC220]

Ps @R129 UK ebay delivered the 190 buyers guide so that'll keep me entertained until the car gets here

 

[duuder]

Driving this should be pretty fun! I wanted one but I already have a 4 cyl with a dogleg and opted for more hp

 

[doolar]

Can’t wait for the restoration on this Joe! Crossing all fingers that the sale goes through without hiccups!

 

[JC220]

and not a good one!

Since my call with the seller yesterday where I agreed to pay more and we agreed the sale the seller has stopped responding to messages again.

Im pretty sure now he is just going between people trying to get as much £ as possible. But what a thing to do - agree a car sale as done and sign paperwork that night then disappear Some people just have zero honour I guess ill know for next time to be more cautious and not get my time wasted as this to date has wasted alot of time and I had arrangements made to uplift the car so I have some embarrassing phone calls to make now to cancel that. Terrible.

 

[Jlaa]

and not a good one!

Since my call with the seller yesterday where I agreed to pay more and we agreed the sale the seller has stopped responding to messages again.

Im pretty sure now he is just going between people trying to get as much £ as possible. But what a thing to do - agree a car sale as done and sign paperwork that night then disappear Some people just have zero honour I guess ill know for next time to be more cautious and not get my time wasted as this to date has wasted alot of time and I had arrangements made to uplift the car so I have some embarrassing phone calls to make now to cancel that. Terrible.

Perhaps the seller is just going through emotional turmoil as @alabbasi suggests? I can only imagine the heatbreak upon discovering that one’s car had actually been left to rot outside for a decade.

 

[JC220]

Perhaps the seller is just going through emotional turmoil as @alabbasi suggests? I can only imagine the heatbreak upon discovering that one’s car had actually been left to rot outside for a decade.

I don't know what is going on, its a very unusual situation to be in! I am very disappointed to think we had a deal then poof - gone no cortousy at all. I actually do hope to not hear from the "seller" again so I can forget about this whole deal.

 

[alabbasi]

It could be one or the other. A car like that will attract a lot of interest from people who 1) have no money or 2) don't understand the extent of work needed until they see the pictures.

A seller can waste his time entertaining these conversations if he likes, I don't need to be a participant. I don't like being put in situations where I'm being played against another buyer. I'm guessing that he only has a limited amount of time to sell this car before he heads back to Australia. You can always tell him that if you don't hear back from him within a certain timeframe, that you'll withdraw your offer which is exactly what I woud say AND do in this situation.

If the next recession is going to be anything like the 2009 one, good deals are going to be falling out of the sky pretty soon and we'll all be drowning in them.

 

[duuder]

It could be one or the other. A car like that will attract a lot of interest from people who 1) have no money or 2) don't understand the extent of work needed until they see the pictures.

A seller can waste his time entertaining these conversations if he likes, I don't need to be a participant. I don't like being put in situations where I'm being played against another buyer. I'm guessing that he only has a limited amount of time to sell this car before he heads back to Australia. You can always tell him that if you don't hear back from him within a certain timeframe, that you'll withdraw your offer which is exactly what I woud say AND do in this situation.

If the next recession is going to be anything like the 2009 one, good deals are going to be falling out of the sky pretty soon and we'll all be drowning in them.

many, many good deals to be had...

 

[JC220]

Tonight the car came home with me - pretty cool to see a 500E with wide arches with the 190E Cosworth arch spats etc



Completely crazy deal which ill explain in full when I'm ready but the car is here now so I can relax.

 

[Jlaa]

Tonight the car came home with me - pretty cool to see a 500E with wide arches VS the 190E Cosworth arch spats etc

View attachment 221023

Completely crazy deal which ill explain in fill when im ready but the car is here now so I can relax.

I KNEW you would end up being the owner!!!

 

[JC220]

I KNEW you would end up being the owner!!!

Thank you!

It'll be a long story but ill share it in a few weeks when ready. That was the sketchiest deal ive ever had to do in terms of the seller messing me around and trying to keep my cash deposit instead of completing the sale (It got very seriously bad) But I wasn't having it and the car is home now

 

[alabbasi]

Send me an address for the tin of POR15

 

[JC220]

I took one quick interior photo also. The interior is all remarkably original and unmolested like the whole car

 

[TerryA]

But, but the steering wheel is on the wrong side!

 

[gsxr]

But, but the steering wheel is on the wrong side!

Yeah, that would have been a dealbreaker for me.

Congrats on the score, Joe!

 

[ArauzMotoring]

So cool that you got it!! Love that interior and the dog leg must be such a fun gearbox to row thru!

 

[R129 UK]

Great news, looking forward to hearing the backstory to this one and seeing progress on the restoration.

Nice to see another RHD car on here too

 

[doolar]

Thank you!

It'll be a long story but ill share it in a few weeks when ready. That was the sketchiest deal ive ever had to do in terms of the seller messing me around and trying to keep my cash deposit instead of completing the sale (It got very seriously bad) But I wasn't having it and the car is home now

Good man!!

 

[JC220]

I noticed before the car had a colour change in the log book in 1990 or so from black to grey. Checking the vin,



Its a 199 Blue Black factory car. So ill return it Blue Black and it'll match my 500E too!

 

[Rouven036]

Congrats on the 16V! I covered in my 2 week summer visit at home over 3500km with the 2.5-16.

 

[JC220]

First small item ive bought for the car for fear of losing the single key

(Custom made leather keyring)



Sorry @lowman #Itsnotarealcosworth

 

[lowman]

First small item ive bought for the car for fear of losing the single key

(Custom made leather keyring)

View attachment 221087

Sorry @lowman #Itsnotarealcosworth

hahaha nice one mate

 

[JC220]

Updates on this car are on my owners thread the revival will be covered there Post in thread 'JC220' OWNER - JC220 | Owners and Their Cars