NON ASR ETA high idle issue

[samm]

So I have 000 141 93 25 Electronic throttle actuator.

Original unit had bad wiring. Put in a 2004 build unit thinking it was ok. Car still has high idle, around 1100 rpms. I foolishly thought that simply putting a newer build one would be the solution.

I think it was a high mileage unit because it appears to not move the throttle plate at all at idle. The plate stays in the same position with the ETA plug disconnected and when it is connected. In other words the 2004 ETA i have does absolutely NOTHING to alter idle. Had 4 different TLLR modules in there and its the same problem. With the car on high idle I remove the AMF and I presss gently on the throttle plate to close the air gap, idle drops to a nice normal level. Obviously the ETA is supposed to be doing this job.

Had enough of bloody "rebuilt' and newer date of manufacture units that have absolutely no guarantee that they will be functional. Ive looked at programma, beckmann and others on ebay. Ive also read bad experiences with all of them.

It is a long shot but I am looking for anyone who has a NEW unit with part number
000 141 93 25. I know its not cheap and Im not expecting it to be like the rebuilt units.

Otherwise I will be considering getting it for the lowest possible price from a dealer online.

I have been steadily getting this car up to a high mechanical standard as I want it to be my daily driver. Due to limited time I have been very delayed with the plans. However, this high idle is the only remaining issue.

Also did a smoke test on the weekend with a proper machine to eliminate leaks possibilities. Replaced so many parts and sensors that were not even faulty, deliberately to get to a high reliability level.

 

[gsxr]

I'd give Don Roden on eBay a try for $300 before plunking down ~$1750 for a new one, but that's just me.

Are there ANY codes on the T/LLR module? Do you have SDS for full diagnostics & viewing live data?

 

[samm]

Hi Dave,

I dont have live data but I dont mind looking into it. No codes on the TLLR, last time I checked was a few months ago with the same issue.

Is Don Roden in Alabama? I saw a rebuolder in AL saying he is an ex merc tech.

 

[samm]

So far Ive spent close to 500 on the ETA issue. Bloody crazy waste of money.

 

[gsxr]

Yes - Don is the Alabama guy. I've generally heard good things about his work, and he's reasonably priced. Totally agree about the waste of $$$ with bad ETA's! I know how to do a quick test of the ASR type, but not the non-ASR type.

Live data SHOULD help, but it's bizarre that you have a high idle with zero codes on the T/LLR module. Are you 1,000% certain the throttle linkage is adjusted correctly?

 

[Stevester 500E]

Sam,

Are you getting the same "exact" high idle when you have your original ETA vs when you have the used 2004 ETA installed in your car?

When you unplug the MAF when the original ETA and used 2004 ETA, do you get the same exact results?

.....I remove the AMF and I presss gently on the throttle plate to close the air gap, idle drops to a nice normal level. Obviously the ETA is supposed to be doing this job.

 

[samm]

the throttle linkage disconnected still gives the same 1100 rpm. I previously thought it was the linkage as I had put in a new one. I do need to adjust it for other reasons but no for idle..

 

[samm]

Hi Stevester,

This car was not working when I got it. Very low miles and I did not start it until I replaced ETA and flushed engine and trans fluids and service items. The original ETA wires were gone, like powder. So I bought a 2004 unit, lovely wiring but God Knows how many miles it had done! Then I tried to rewire my original one, obviously did it wrong as it was dead, absolutely not a sound from it when I connected it yesterday.

Ive spent a lot on this car, plus did a full respray and suspension, wheels tires. All to be a daily driver.

THis is the only mechanical issue it has now. I fixed several so far!

 

[samm]

yes, MAF connected or Unconnected, idle same level. MAF works as I tested it as well

 

[samm]

cruise control works though.

In NON ASR unit the ETA only controls Idle and cruise control. I only found out not too long ago.

 

[samm]

are there any specific online dealer sites that can sell the ETA for cheaper. So far $1687.00 is cheapest.

 

[JC220]

You might also want to consider Victor at restoreyourmercedes.com he has many videos on you tube of m119 throttle body rebuilds and testing. If it were me I would send the ETA to Victor for full testing and repair.

 

[samm]

I appreciate your suggestion, I'll look into this as well.

I have been working on this car on weekends for many months. Hopefully soon it will be running perfectly..

 

[a777fan]

I'd give Don Roden on eBay a try for $300 before plunking down ~$1750 for a new one, but that's just me.

Are there ANY codes on the T/LLR module? Do you have SDS for full diagnostics & viewing live data?

+1

 

[gsxr]

are there any specific online dealer sites that can sell the ETA for cheaper. So far $1687.00 is cheapest.

~30% off MSRP is about the best you are going to find ANYWHERE online from a reputable vendor. $1687 is the lowest I could find too.

The only way you'll get a lower price is if a dealer employee lets you buy with their employee discount, which could be as low as cost plus 10% (which translates into ~34% off MSRP).

 

[samm]

thanks for checking Dave! I am likely going to either buy a new one or have TWO ETAs rebuilt.

This is the obvious Achilles heal of this entire car

 

[samm]

heel

 

[samm]

I have been unable to find cheaper than aprox 1700 fro a new ETA. I have taken Dave's advice and sent one ETA along with a second "parts only' ETA to Mr Roden of RFC in Alabama. If that turns out ok, I will then send the ETA that is still in my car to RFC as well. SO that I can have 2 rebuilt ETAs. 2 rebuilt ETAs for 600 sounds better than 1700 for a new one. Now if the new one was about 1200 or so then I would have bought that for sure.

Why am I unable to break free of the choice to always have a w124 daily? These cars are too special. Im fed up of my own loyalty sometimes

 

[sheward]

I just saw this thread. I have a newer non-ASR ETA for sale that came from a perfectly running 92 400E. PN is 000 141 89 25. Date code 2008. If interested, let me know.

drew

 

[samm]

Hi Drew,

My part number is 000 141 93 25

As far as I know there is no interchangeability..?

 

[gsxr]

I just saw this thread. I have a newer non-ASR ETA for sale that came from a perfectly running 92 400E. PN is 000 141 89 25. Date code 2008. If interested, let me know.

Drew, can you double-check that part number? 000 141 89 25 is an ASR ETA from a 140 chassis. If the part number is correct, it won't work on a non-ASR vehicle.

:?:

 

[kubasz]

Hi guys

little above 1000rpm is a sign of non working TB. In case of having non ASR car the TB suffers from open circiut of clutch coil inside the TB. Coil can be tested on pins 10-11 on early style TB connector and pins 12-13 on later style TB connector. Good coil will show 4-5 Ohm on resistance test. If it shows open circiut this is the issue. All V8 TBs have the same style clutch coil with 300 winding of 0.35mm laminated copper wire, however asr coils are easily extractable from the TB assembly while on non asr TB its welded up in the unit. Extraction and repair is pretty easy but the installation and proper alignment its the magic. I did few of those in the past with success but i dont recommend it as a DIY project.

The coil is made of the copper wire but the outside "terminals" are made of 0.5 steel wire. Copper and steel are joined inside the coil housing using criping method and there is some sort of intermediate metal bushing involved. The copper wire becomes loose in that joint causing loss of connection. My solution is to solder that connection. I used to make new coils out of proper wire but winding up 300 times is close to impossible while maintaining correct dimentions

 

[sheward]

Whoops, sorry, I have multiple units and read the wrong one. That is for a 140 chassis. The number on the unit I have is 000 141 78 25. It did come from a 92 400E NON - ASR car. Thank you, Dave.

drew

 

[gsxr]

Whoops, sorry, I have multiple units and read the wrong one. That is for a 140 chassis. The number on the unit I have is 000 141 78 25. It did come from a 92 400E NON - ASR car. Thank you, Dave.

OK, 000 141 78 25 is correct for a 1992-1993 400E without ASR, and will have the large "pancake" connector. Unfortunately it's not interchangeable with 000 141 93 25, which is non-ASR, but has the smaller connector used on facelift 94-95 models.

140 ETA's are interchangeable and will work on the 124 btw, the 140 wire is longer, but otherwise they'll work if the connector is the same type, and ASR / non-ASR.

 

[samm]

thank you for the explanation Kubasz..
Yes it is as if the ETA does nothing to change the idle, connected or no, the idle stays the same. . So open circuit sounds right...

 

[samm]

Don Roden in AL says he has repaired one ETA now and has test driven it in a car. Lets hope it works because In 14 months I still have not had the car running perfectly.

 

[samm]

https://youtu.be/kbz5G20_98w

HI guys,

So I got my repaired ETA back, I had the 45k mile original unit repaired. As far as I could tell it only had bad wiring. I guess I shoud have just had it rewired in the first place instead of buying a used (FAULTY) 2004 build ETA.

Of course I did not know the 2004 unit was faulty. The high idle issue is now resolved. I didnt even need to install the repaired unit to realize what the problem was this whole time. The 2004 unit's idle contact switch was broken/defective as it did not click. The lever would just loosely move. You can see what I mean in the video above.

SO it made sense to me that when I disconnected the ETA plug with the engine idling, it made NO difference. This proved that the idle contact switch was not working. Of course over the course of several months I had been looking EVERYWHERE else except the ETA to figure out the high idel.

I even did a smoke test at my friends garage around 2 weeks ago, to see if there was a leak, there were none. Almost all vacuum hoses had been renewed a few months ago...

So for anyone with this high idle issue, as you run through your list of fault possibilities, put the idle contact switch on your list!

I had replaced many components in search of the fault. I am not frustrated about the parts as I didint mind putting in new parts for this car that is hopefully going to be my daily driver.

Does anyone know how to repair the idle switch inside the ETA? I will likely send the removed unit to Mr Roden to repair as well. So that I have 2 rebuilt ETAs.

 

[gsxr]

Glad you solved the mystery!

Question... was there a fault code on the T/LLR module for the faulty idle contact switch? Looks like digital code 051 (analog code 3)?

 

[lowman]

so happy you sorted this out.Always very satisfying figuring stuff like this out
Greeetings,Stefan

 

[samm]

hey Dave,

Im trying hard to remember. I had last scanned codes in January. I seem to recall that code coming up...I think...

Again I was on a wild chase because I had a 2004 unit. Thinking its perfect because the wiring was great!

Hopefully just need to figure out why Ive got an intermittent fault with the wipers and my indicators/rear defroster/hazard switch. I put another relay (untested) but still a fault. I will have fun figuring that out.

But mainly the engine seems to be operating normally right now, first time since I bought the car!

 

[samm]

Thanks Stefan!

 

[lowman]

Thanks Stefan!

no problem Left a note on your video too mister.Im just so happy..and i can feel the thrill.Seriously

 

[samm]

well I gave the car a nice acceleration when I was merging into the freeway. Dropped it manually into 2nd gear. Awesome ! First time I ever did that in the 15 months I have owned the car! Manily because it wasnt working!!

Anyway, check engine has come on now. Not so worried as whatever the issue is Im sure I can replace it

 

[samm]

got a 2013 build lower wiring harness for 10.50 plus tax!! awesome or what!

 

[gsxr]

got a 2013 build lower wiring harness for 10.50 plus tax!! awesome or what!

Whoa. Was this at Pick+Pull or something? That's a score!

 

[samm]

yup, I took the hubs off a 420. Noticed a near new harness and had to have it!

 

[samm]

So far so good. Idle is a little high but that is because I need to adjust that screw inside the casing. Will not bother for the moment as its only a little high and is not high in drive.

had a little surging and drop of rpms when DEcelerating for a traffic light happen over the weekend. Will try and figure out what that is about...

I have 2 questions:

1) how long would Bosch distributor caps last in warm climate (souther Cali)

2) what is the function of the camshaft sensor and how(symptoms) would it fail?

:?

 

[gsxr]

Caps & rotors should last a very long time... 100kmi / many years? I've seen some pretty terrible ones where the engine still ran fine. How old are yours and what is the problem? Pull the rotor bracket and inspect the back side of the insulators, if you've never done so. IMO, to borrow a line from Klink, billions and billions of caps/rotors have been replaced unnecessarily due to the problem lying elsewhere.

The camshaft sensor determines if the intake cam is advanced or retarded. If not working, the cams may never advance, resulting in very weak midrange power. There may be a fault code on the LH or EZL module, but not necessarily. Cam (CMP) sensor failures are almost unheard of, btw.

 

[samm]

hey Dave,

Thank you for the quick response.

I have replaced the insulators, rotor arms. Dist caps are 5 years old but the car was never running for 5 years. I cleaned them up but on my other car dist cap left me stranded and it was only 2 years old Bosch!

My check engine light is on although engine running smoothly. Will scan in next couple of days..

 

[samm]

Hey Dave do you lubricate your throttle assembly with ATF or something else?

 

[gsxr]

Hey Dave do you lubricate your throttle assembly with ATF or something else?

Assuming you mean the linkages with ball/socket ends, MB has a special grease, but any generic white grease should work fine. ATF doesn't really last long enough, but it's better than nothing...

 

[samm]

thanks for the info Dave. I cant recall who said to use ATF, I think it was some benz tech. Anyway white grease it is. Thank you!

 

[nocfn]

Twas gsxr’ Uncle Kent!! If you have copper or aluminum anti seize paste, a light coating with a q-tip once you clean ball/socket ends will lube nice a withstand the heat. Sparingly coat, don’t over do it. Thats if you dont have the MB juice.

 

[samm]

I like uncle Kent's enthusiasm in his videos.

Thanks, I do have white grease and anti seize as well. Thank you!

 

[samm]

so far so good, still. hopefully it can stay this way. I am going to be getting another unit repaired as well. I believe it is the idle contact switch that is faulty. Cruise works on it, its a 2004 ETA with perfect wires...