OWNER - olinjohnston (400E)

[olinjohnston]

Hello all,

I have a little bit of W124 experience with an 87 260E, and have also owned a W126 and W201 in the past. I am primarily a BMW enthusiast (94 840Ci + others) but I could not pass up this poor 400E. The owner did not want to bother with fixing whatever was causing the check engine light, and his registration was coming due (in California, smog certificate/no CEL) is needed to stay on the road.

I have always admired the W124 for its simple looks, pleasant driving experience, and its amazing engineering. Having the M119 engine in this timeless vehicle is awesome, but I am still learning a lot about these cars.

I have only had it for about three weeks. So far, I have done:

- Replaced air filters (Mann)
- Replaced spark plugs (Bosch F8DC4)
- Cleaned throttle body/MAF element (I think this was the CEL since the butterfly was so gummed up, the RPM would dip to near-stall and then recover back to idle if revved in place, and now its perfect!)
- Replaced fossilized rubber MAF-to-throttle body connector
- Ordered second key by VIN
- Removed faded pin stripes
- Replaced missing tow hook grille cover in front bumper
- DEEP cleaning on interior
- Removed terrible aftermarket phone cradle/audio integration
- Wheels are at a shop getting acid dipped to remove ruined chrome, and returned to OE silver


Much more to come!

As I found it...on death row, waiting to be brought to a junk yard:

Interior grime:

Stupid phone system was wired EVERYWHERE from the dash to the trunk, the ceiling, console, and its finally GONE:

After a little cleaning.......

Driver's door:



I will post more of the exterior once I get the wheels back. I was lucky enough to spend some time at the Mercedes-Benz classic center yesterday, and they gave me a quote for the apparently Euro-only 400E Sportline suspension components. I'm not sure how far I want to take this car, but I'm kindof obsessed with it right now.

The pick-your-own parts junkyards are sadly/gladly FULL of W124s with good parts, so I've been able to get all sorts of little bits for it already for pennies.

Anyway, hello forum.

 

[goliat]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Really, congrats for that beauty.

The wood panels are in perfect nick, so the car was for sure garaged during its past. And the interior grime has disappeared leaving an almost brand new interior after some care and attention.

keep It on with the car.

 

[J-Sauce]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Hello and welcome to the forum. What an awesome deal!

Make sure and mention this forum when shopping at the classic center. And ask for Tom Hansen. He will give you the best rock-bottom pricing possible.

 

[clarkz71]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

We also have a deal with Mercedes Benz of Gainesville

Lionel or Scott. They will meet or beat any online MB dealer price (including the Classic Center)

The difference is they are the only ones to ship Fed Ex 2 day FREE. Even small items like a few oil filters.

Lionel Rutter lionel.rutter@mbofgainesville.com

Cell, 205-229-9987

Scott Turbyfield scott.turbyfield@mbofgainesville.com

352-332-6303

You must mention the 500Eboard, and my name won't hurt

 

[samiam44]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

So it failed emissions and was going to be scrapped? How many miles are on the car?

It's said when I see NICE 420e/400e's in the junkyard.

I can thank and support Clarks recommendataion on Lionel @ Gainsville.


Michael

 

[KarlC]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Welcome, you will find a great bunch of VERY knowledgeable guys here.

How did you find this site ?

Keep the photos and updates coming

 

[Ascension]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

As a recent first time E-420 owner also I can say with confidence you came to the right forum for one of these cars! Great bunch of folks here that have been invaluable to me on my learning curve on these cars.
WELCOME!

 

[olinjohnston]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

So it failed emissions and was going to be scrapped? How many miles are on the car?

Welcome to CA... Odometer is stopped at 263,090 so more than that!



Thanks for the warm welcome and the parts resources... I stumbled onto the site just searching for information on google.

 

[samiam44]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Great to hear!

You can easily fix the odometer w new gears or find a used cluster cheap.



Michael

 

[olinjohnston]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Great to hear!

You can easily fix the odometer w new gears or find a used cluster cheap.

I thought about pulling one of the 7+ clusters I saw in the junkyard on Monday, but I had no idea how to remove it... And is there a way to correct the mileage? (I was going to roll it FORWARD a bit!)

 

[samiam44]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

You can pull the speedometer and send it to a VDO repair shop. They can adjust the mileage and do new gears. Probably $125 or so.

You can always estimate mileage based on carfax record. I'd just get one from a junkyard which is correct. Does your car have ASR? The yellow triangle in the speedometer?


Michael

 

[Maui]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

There are speedo repair shops in just about every major city. Just google speedometer repair in your city.

http://www.speedometerplus.com/

 

[olinjohnston]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Does your car have ASR? The yellow triangle in the speedometer?

NO thank God.

 

[alabbasi]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

I used to sell a bunch of those car kits when I was in college. They work on the Nokia 61xx series phones which are great phones.

 

[olinjohnston]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

They work on the Nokia 61xx series phones which are great phones.

Sure, if all you wanna do with your phone is call people....

 

[gsxr]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

NO thank God.

See, this is what I was referring to on a different thread... people who don't understand ASR (traction control), have this bizarre hatred it. They don't understand that you can add a switch to turn it off on demand, and leave it on the rest of the time. But a car without it, will never have it. And it is not fun driving these cars on slick surfaces without it. But I digress.

Welcome to the forum, and congrats on your 400E score!

 

[Klink]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

NO thank God.

Note that when ASR is mentioned, God always wins! It is either "No, thank God!" or "Yes, Praise God!" It is never "Gee, I'm not sure. I guess I never noticed because I really don't care either way"...

 

[olinjohnston]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

I just read and heard about people's expensive problems with it, that's all. Traction control systems can be a nice feature, but on an old/worn car like this, I am thankful for all the elements of technical simplicity I can get.

 

[Klink]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

See, this is what I was referring to on a different thread... people who don't understand ASR (traction control), have this bizarre hatred it. They don't understand that you can add a switch to turn it off on demand, and leave it on the rest of the time. But a car without it, will never have it. And it is not fun driving these cars on slick surfaces without it. But I digress.

Welcome to the forum, and congrats on your 400E score!

times a turbillion!!

Note that every problem that causes a running condition on an ASR car, these non ASR cars are also subject to! Every single one!

I never understood people thinking that there was such a difference in number or severity of problems and / or repair expenses. There isn't one bit. The only difference is that ASR cars don't have the ASR functionality. That's all. Do fear the reaper, don't fear the ASR...

Oh, and also on the Looks like one fantastic $500.00 car. And I love how you're bringing it back up to par. Nice work!

 

[gsxr]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Ditto what Klink said. There seems to be a lot of misinformation floating around the forums regarding ASR...

 

[olinjohnston]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Perhaps my reaction was more harsh than it should have been. I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. My only reasoning was that I was glad to have a simpler setup in an old car...but it wasn't just the forums that said bad things about ASR. A friend of mine used to have a 1993 400E, and he said he was at odds with the ASR warning light constantly.

 

[gerryvz]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

I have owned two cars with ASR - a 1994 E500 and a 1995 E320 wagon (now sold), for 11 years and 7 years respectively, and never had a single problem with ASR on either car. In my opinion, the ASR III on the 400E/E420 and 500E/E500 is an exceptionally reliable system.

We have driven the E500 for 55,000 miles, and the E320 wagon for over 70,000 miles. Not a single ASR light or problem, EVER.

 

[maw1124]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

So far, this looks like one of the best examples of unarmed robbery I've seen in a very long time. Congrats!! Welcome to the Board. Let's hope it holds up. But for $500, I think it's a gamble worth taking. Have fun!!

Cheers,

maw

 

[jeff0093]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Welcome the car looks really nice, it will be great when you bring it back to life and loose the chrome

 

[Ascension]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Perhaps my reaction was more harsh than it should have been. I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. My only reasoning was that I was glad to have a simpler setup in an old car...but it wasn't just the forums that said bad things about ASR. A friend of mine used to have a 1993 400E, and he said he was at odds with the ASR warning light constantly.

Like you I like simple and all the nanny software that is now being installed on newer cars to "save us from ourselves" is just not appealing to me at ALL!
Saying that these cars for whatever reason are the poster children for bad behavior in wet weather. I found that out a few days ago when I drove the E-420 I have owned for just over a month now for the first time in the rain and let me tell you it was a handful. Now I'm looking at more tire and wish mine did have the ASR!

 

[janos_z]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Congrats on a great score! My first w124 was a 1993 400E, and I loved that car. It's nice to see this one snatched from the abyss.

So did the throttle body/MAF sensor freshening snuff out your CEL? Is the car good to go?

+1 on Karl's comment that you keep us posted, with pics. It's always nice to see one of these cars come back to life

 

[Allgonquin]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Very interesting that on the dirty interior shots, I could see that yes, the arm rests were very dirty, but apparently unworn. This is, in my experience, really unusual. The sweat from arms usually "eats" the center arm rest cover and it is rare to see a car which still has the grain pattern fully intact. Wonder if that was replaced at some point. Either that or the owner drove with a towel on the cover!

Really nice find. Let's hope you are the exception to the "there is no car more expensive than a cheap old MB" rule. Sounds like so far so good.

 

[olinjohnston]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

8/24/14 UPDATE:

So I got the wheels back from the powder coating shop and they look 100,000x better. They also painted my star center caps and the heads of the wheel studs for free.

Before:

(And this was after cleaning, lol)

AFTER:

(A little brake dust on them already - might switch pads)

Other fun stuff:

I found this little missing grille on a W124 in the junkyard for $1, but it is unpainted. I might try and find a Sato Grey one since it was only a buck, and the cheapest spray can of paint is 25...

Grabbed a few spare climate control units while I was at it...plus a bunch of other parts

More to come!

 

[Klink]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Nice work, Olin! Thanks for the regular updates. it is always inspiring to see someone overcoming obstacles and getting it done. it definitely adds to the enthusiasm of others. Thanks again!

 

[olinjohnston]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Nice work, Olin! Thanks for the regular updates. it is always inspiring to see someone overcoming obstacles and getting it done. it definitely adds to the enthusiasm of others. Thanks again!

Of course... That's part of the fun.


So I just realized that the wheel refinishers wrote "OLD MERC" on my tires to keep track of them... LOL I'm offended!!!

 

[gerryvz]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Looks like they did a good job. That would IMHO excuse the "old merc" comment on the tire.

 

[Roma_500E]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Nice car ! Looks to be in a great shape (wood is in a great shape, leather , carpets...)

Seems like you will bring it back to nice shape !

PM sent.

 

[400Eric]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Traction control systems can be a nice feature, but on an old/worn car like this, I am thankful for all the elements of technical simplicity I can get.

Welcome to the board!

With that one statement you have shown yourself to be sharper than the average car enthusiast.

ASR adds complexity to other seemingly unrelated systems, making those systems more prone to causing trouble themselves. For example, the electronic throttle actuators (ETA) on these cars are already prone enough as it is to giving trouble but the ones on ASR cars are even more so because ASR cars have a more complicated ETA unit. A decent percentage of non-ASR cars are still getting by with their original ETA units but A LOT of ASR equipped cars have already had to have their ETAs replaced or at least refurbished because they have already failed. They just don't hold up as well as the simpler ETA units found on the non-ASR cars do. Then there is an added layer here because the ASR cars are more dependent on their ETAs than the non-ASR cars are, even when the operation of the ASR system isn't even a factor. You can still get full throttle operation out of a non-ASR ETA even if it isn't working, because the action of the throttle blade isn't dependent on any help from that ETA but you can't get full throttle operation out of a ASR ETA if it isn't working, because in that car's case it is dependent to a certain extent on help from the ETA.

So in this example the owner of an ASR equipped car can and will still brag that HIS ASR system has never given him any trouble, but actually by it's mere presence it has, he just never made the connection.

I have lost a few races because my 400E doesn't have ASR, but it's a tradeoff I'll gladly take.
[youtube]MNmg0D4YAfM[/youtube]
Now that Impala was only running 14.9s that day, while I ran 14.4s-14.5s for the rest of the day. That should have been an easy victory for me. It's not like my reaction times are slow. (This is later that same day):
[youtube]n5-HRT61r1g[/youtube]

Now you lovers of ASR, please don't hate on me, I'm just backing the OP, agreeing with him cause my findings are similar to his. In a forum such as this all viewpoints and experiences need to heard. You all can go on loving your ASR systems and we will go on being glad we don't have it.

That has to be the highest mile 034 on this site! Uncle Gerry, you should put together some kind of prize package for him!

Still one beautiful car though.

Olin, I'm curious, what is the build date of your car?

Very important: If you do get another cluster, make sure it is from another 034! (400E/E420.)

Very interesting that on the dirty interior shots, I could see that yes, the arm rests were very dirty, but apparently unworn. This is, in my experience, really unusual. The sweat from arms usually "eats" the center arm rest cover and it is rare to see a car which still has the grain pattern fully intact. Wonder if that was replaced at some point. Either that or the owner drove with a towel on the cover!

Really nice find. Let's hope you are the exception to the "there is no car more expensive than a cheap old MB" rule. Sounds like so far so good.

That car is from the O.C. The climate there is so mild that people don't sweat as much as they do elsewhere.

It's funny that you mentioned that "rule". I just recited it myself earlier in another thread!

Regards,
Eric

 

[Klink]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

So in this example the owner of an ASR equipped car can and will still brag that HIS ASR system has never given him any trouble, but actually by it's mere presence it has, he just never made the connection.
Eric

No hate whatsoever! Love you long time, and really appreciate your posts! It's that exact statement right there above that I want to comment on, it's one of those areas where perhaps one's vantage point makes a real difference. My overall experience in repairing these things since their inception has been the diametric opposite of that statement. Almost all of the major trouble points in this system for ASR and non-ASR cars are identical. I have seen far more non-ASR equipped cars that reportedly suffered for years with undiagnosed surging, stalling, hesitations, you name it, that were attributable to, and repaired by addressing one of these otherwise known trouble spots. And they remain unaddressed because "this car doesn't have ASR" Take a transmission range selector switch as the textbook example of what I'm talking about. A wonky one causes all manner of low-power and crappy drivability on non-ASR cars. It just never gets fixed. An ASR equipped car goes into limp throttle and gets fixed ASAP, all those other symptoms there by getting remedied along with the limp throttle in this case. You are quite right in that a non-ASR car can be driven around in various states of impairment much more effectively than an ASR car. But like I said, my experience has overwhelmingly been that it's the non-ASR car driver that tends to suffer undiagnosed conditions caused by the load control system, not the other way around.

I do emphatically agree that Olin is smarter than the average ranger!

 

[clarkz71]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

ASR has come a long way since 20 years ago

New systems are flawless, even performance sport bikes have ASR, called traction control
with a handlebar switch and 4 levels of traction

Didn't see many problems when the ASR cars were new, just after years
and miles pile up. Nothing that can't be fixed, usually a one time deal

 

[400Eric]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

I am looking forward to input from both of you, and Uncle Gerry and Dave too, on this thread: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6500 I can't wait to see what the issue is. (Yes Klink, you've already found the thread, but we're still waiting for more details first.)

 

[olinjohnston]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

My purpose in starting my thread was to show off this lovely 400E, not launch an ASR debate...

I regret even badmouthing it the first time because it derailed my intent to show you guys the my experience in fixing up this special car.



UPDATE 8/25/14:

I actually found the complete BECKER Silverstone 10 disc changer with all cables and mounting hardware in a junked 400E today, and got a few more odds and ends.

Also picked up a brand new key from the Mercedes dealer. The car only came with one, and it was a worn out aftermarket copy.
($25 for a factory master key seemed like a decent price)

 

[Klink]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

My purpose in starting my thread was to show off this lovely 400E, not launch an ASR debate...

I regret even badmouthing it the first time because it derailed my intent to show you guys the my experience in fixing up this special car.




UPDATE 8/25/14:

I actually found the complete BECKER Silverstone 10 disc changer with all cables and mounting hardware in a junked 400E today, and got a few more odds and ends.

Also picked up a brand new key from the Mercedes dealer. The car only came with one, and it was a worn out aftermarket copy.
($25 for a factory master key seemed like a decent price)

Understood. We sure didn't intend to make you uncomfortable or derail your thread. We are some master-debaters here, for sure. You're not the first poster we've done that kind of thing to, and I apologize for my part in it.

Finding an intact Silverstone is awesome! I have had a bunch of them and never had the slightest problem with one, but they had a reputation of being trouble prone, and I think that may have caused so many of them to simply be discarded when they may have nothing wrong with them that couldn't have been easily repaired if anyone had bothered.

 

[gerryvz]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

My purpose in starting my thread was to show off this lovely 400E, not launch an ASR debate...

I regret even badmouthing it the first time because it derailed my intent to show you guys the my experience in fixing up this special car.

Hey, just be glad it didn't turn into an oil and/or ATF thread. We seem to be having a problem with many threads turning into oil related threads

That said, keep the updates coming !!! Thanks for contributing.

 

[olinjohnston]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Just installed it, and it works!!!

 

[gerryvz]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Sweet, that's rare for one of those Silverstones to actually WORK. Most of the time they're trashed/inop.

Congratulations.

 

[Emaq]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

(A little brake dust on them already - might switch pads)
Try Akebono Ceramic pads and you don't have to worry about the nasty dirty dust for months. What part of OC are you from? Welcome to the Board.
Manny

 

[olinjohnston]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

(A little brake dust on them already - might switch pads)
Try Akebono Ceramic pads and you don't have to worry about the nasty dirty dust for months. What part of OC are you from? Welcome to the Board.
Manny

Thanks for the suggestion!

I was also considering the Wagner ThermoQuiet pads, as I have them on my BMW 840Ci - almost zero dust.

 

[400Eric]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

My purpose in starting my thread was to show off this lovely 400E, not launch an ASR debate...

I regret even badmouthing it the first time because it derailed my intent to show you guys the my experience in fixing up this special car.

Understood. Sorry. I was only backing and supporting your view. I felt compelled to do so, because no one else was.

Regards,
Eric

 

[gerryvz]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Definitely go with the Akebonos - can't go wrong with them. You can get them cheaply via Amazon ... just be sure to order the right set for your car !!

 

[olinjohnston]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Definitely go with the Akebonos - can't go wrong with them. You can get them cheaply via Amazon ... just be sure to order the right set for your car !!

Is it a good idea to replace the discs at the same time on these cars? Or can I just do the pads without adverse effect...assuming minimum thickness.




Oh, and I spoke too soon on the Silverstone changer. Now, selecting a CD intermittently stays on "LOAD" and the magazine won't eject. It worked great the first time...Maybe bringing it home temporarily stirred it back to life. I still want to use it, so I'll have to fix that too... haha

 

[gerryvz]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

You only need to do the discs if they are at or near the minimum wear spec. Do you have the tool (digital caliper) to measure?

It's fine to just replace the pads without doing the discs, if the discs are above the wear spec. I'd say that front discs will wear down every 3 sets of pads or so, give or take.

 

[Ascension]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Definitely go with the Akebonos - can't go wrong with them. You can get them cheaply via Amazon ... just be sure to order the right set for your car !!

+1 and FCP is doing a blow out on them right now!
Rears $24
http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mercedes-brake-pad-set-rear-w124-w129-w202-w210-w170-eur495
Fronts $58
http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mercedes-brake-pad-set-front-w129-w124-eur561
Been buying parts for my Volvos from these guys for years and have gotten great CS!!!

 

[gerryvz]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

+1 and FCP is doing a blow out on them right now!
Rears $24
http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mercedes-brake-pad-set-rear-w124-w129-w202-w210-w170-eur495
Fronts $58
http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mercedes-brake-pad-set-front-w129-w124-eur561
Been buying parts for my Volvos from these guys for years and have gotten great CS!!!

Wow, that is good pricing.

Compare with Amazon at $33.80 for the rears, and $51.45 for the fronts (both available via Amazon Prime - free 2-day shipping).

AutohauZ has them for $71.65 for the fronts, and $41.22 for the rears.


I'm puzzled.
In all of the Benzes I've ever owned, I've never had/seen a disc "glaze" (I'm not sure how that would happen) and my pads have always bedded right in. This spans cars of the W109 (6.3), W116 (6.9), W126 (380SEL, 560SEC and 560EL), W124 (300TE, two E320 wagons, E500), and R107 (560SL) generations.

Until the past couple of years, I've always used factory OE pads or Textar/Pagid/Jurid pads with the factory or near-factory "soft" dusty compound. More recently I've used Akebono Yurro pads and again never had a breakin problem or issue with glazing on rotors on any of the above-listed cars.

Never seen anything listed in the factory service manuals for any of the above cars about needing to de-glaze rotors. If it was a problem, I'd think that the factory manuals would discuss it.

Basically you just check for minimum spec with a set of calipers to make sure they're OK, and replace if necessary, or not. There is a moderate process for bedding in a new set of pads.

Here's a recent thread I did, relating to the replacement of W126 rotors/pads (a different design than the W124, but you can see that my rotors were FAR out of spec). See post #20 in the thread.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Ascension]

Re: New member - Recently purchased $500 1993 400E

Wow, that is good pricing.

Compare with Amazon at $33.80 for the rears, and $51.45 for the fronts (both available via Amazon Prime - free 2-day shipping).

AutohauZ has them for $71.65 for the fronts, and $41.22 for the rears.
Gerry

Not only the Pads but also rotors check these prices out on Brembos!!
http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mercedes-front-brake-rotor-300e-400e-e320-e420-1244212412b
or
http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mercedes-disc-brake-rotor-300ce-300te-400e-e320-e420-1244212412a
FCP has been a go to source of euro parts for me on my Volvos for many years now.