Star Diagnostic Tool

[DarkStar]

Curious if any of the members on this forum have purchased a C3 or C4 mux and the Star Diagnostic computer ?

I saw some on eBay and am curious if it is worth it for the 500E?

The C3 is pretty reasonable, C4 is a bit more expensive, but not out of the realm of useful investment. Especially if you have a few 1989 or later Benz in the garage.

 

[gsxr]

For the 500E, it doesn't matter if it's C3, C4, or any other "C" number. The capability will be the same on all of them. It just runs an HHT emulation mode for these older OBD-1 cars. If you need it for the W124 chassis, get the cheapest possible. Maybe the C4 is more useful on very new MB's, I'm not sure though.

 

[DarkStar]

C4 is wireless, but that probably is not an issue. The other issue is that they only run on a couple computers (not sure why).
The benefit of going this route is that I can use it with my 2002 CLK55...

 

[Christian_K]

Hi, i have the Super-MB-Star C3 Kit and i'm highly satisfied with it. Bought this one here: http://www.uobd2.com/wholesale/benz-star-c3-super-mb-star-fit-all-computer-1620.html
According to my month-long Internet research, its the "best" China C3 Clone you can get, because of the good quality Hardware.

I was about to buy that wireless C4 Kit aswell, but the most China sellers warned me about it beeing to new and with issues still. So i took the C3.
What you can do with it (its free in Developer mode) is incredible! Works Flawlessly on all cars i tried it (W124.036, W202s, C215, W211, Sprinter, etc), never any re-connect or lost-connection, etc. Hardware is Top-notch manufactured.. alone the OBD2-Connector is the best i ever saw in term of quality.
Software-Package included is HUGE; Xentry/DAS (with HHT emulation), WIS, EPC, Parts-Locator, Video prodcedures, all wiring diagrams, etc. What you can image, it has it included.

Problem on my Version is that "only" Xentry/DAS, Parts-Locator, Video thingy and Wiring Diagrams is working, EPC and WIS say the SD-key is wrong. Haven't bothered with contacting the Chinese poeple about that yet, as i have EPC/WIS on my other computers aswell. Another disadvantage is that for my Laptop i ordered the Version on external HDD over USB, which is slooooooow as the whole Super-MB-Star is a Win-XP in a Virtual machine.
Start-Up takes around 10minutens at least, but once its started it runs quite fast.

Make sure you buy a spare Laptop for that (old IBM Thinkpads for around 100-200$ WITH HARDWARE VIRTUALIZATION and good amount of RAM!!!), as the software is full with trojan horses and viruses ^^

 

[DarkStar]

I've heard about the trojan horses and virus problems....Do they think they can sell you the software and then steal your identity.
The fact that they are cloning it, I am surprised they can sell them....I sure don't feel good about buying anything from them.

 

[Christian_K]

I've heard about the trojan horses and virus problems....Do they think they can sell you the software and then steal your identity.
The fact that they are cloning it, I am surprised they can sell them....I sure don't feel good about buying anything from them.

I think thats not an issue actually. The spare Laptop shouldnt be connected to the internet, or if it is, disable the network throughput in the virtual machines settings.
To what i have read, these included trojans is the chinese way of remote-control/setup your software in case of troubles.

Anyway regarding SDS - you only have the choise of buying a genuine one for around 22.000$ (Yes you read it correct) or buy a china clone dor much less.

 

[jhodg5ck]

I think thats not an issue actually. The spare Laptop shouldnt be connected to the internet, or if it is, disable the network throughput in the virtual machines settings.
To what i have read, these included trojans is the chinese way of remote-control/setup your software in case of troubles.

Anyway regarding SDS - you only have the choise of buying a genuine one for around 22.000$ (Yes you read it correct) or buy a china clone dor much less.

There are other Reliable options, they run about 5500. I tried a chinese SDS ^*&^*(^*&^*#@#$#....gave up on that pretty quick.

jono

 

[Christian_K]

Made a few pictures how it looks connected with my 500E:


Also done a short Video just with a few functions, actually made it because of two things:
a) There is an option to "perform" self adaption in the LH which is NOT working when selecting USA at startup of HHTWIN, but IS working when selecting German Language at the startup.
b) Because of the only two "real" DTC i have left in my system (all the other "F"s are because all harnesses and stuff is already disconnected), EA->050->Safety Contact Switch M16/1s1 and ASR->011->Solenoid valve Relay A73k1. Both of em return immediately after clearing again (not shown in the vid).
The Relay is sitting at the ASR-Block under the cover and supposedly should have a fuse in it which i will check later on. The M16/1s1 however seems to be in the ETA i guess?

[Youtube]cV44m5h9qX0[/Youtube]

There are other Reliable options, they run about 5500.

Still way to expensive for an individual IMHO!
The Around 700€ i paid for that Thing (including VAT, Customs and Shipping) was already the absolute limit i would invest as an individual in any Diagnosis Equipment and i only invested that because i can Diagnose/Read Live-Data/Trigger Actuators/Reset Services/Do a whole lot of other Stuff, on all other MB cars/Trucks/etc with it too.

 

[gerryvz]

Here's what you need to know with regard to the Chinese SDS systems:

• The C3 is older than the C4, which came out a relatively short time ago. The advent of the C4 drove the former $600-1,000 price of the C3 down to the $275-500 range.
• A C3 is more than all you need; a C4 is overkill in a number of ways, which I'll mention in a moment.
• If you can, get a used MB HHT, which is going to give you everything you need and will be VERY fast.
• The C3 (particularly if it runs on an external hard drive attached to a Windows XP laptop) is VERY slow. I'm talking 6-12 minutes bootup time, depending on your machine.
• The C4 covers the very newest cars (such as a W212) but you are more than fine with a C3 from anything from 1989 up to a W212, W221, W203, etc.
• Newer versions of the C3 and C4 have increasing levels of protection built in against piracy and cloning. While this can and is defeated, it takes the Chinese crackers a little while to get their hands on the new systems and then hack them. It's best just to get a C3 which is going to have a minimum of this crap while giving you everything you need.
• It's preferable to get a system that has the Xentry, WISnet, EPCnet, Star Finder and Star Utilities (full package). Sometimes the EPC doesn't work, but that is generally OK for US folks because we have free access to the latest EPC anyhow.
• The best place to get the Chinese C3 and C4 clones is via Alibaba.com (Aliexpress.com) rather than eBay. These vendors are very good, and are very accessible and responsive. If you send them a message they will get back to you very quickly. You can pay via credit/debit card, Western Union, etc. Some vendors accept Paypal and others. The eBay cloned tend to be MUCH more expensive than those available on Aliexpress/Alibaba.com. Expect to pay $275-350 for a C3, and upwards of $500 for a C4. Again, no real benefit to a C4 but there's LOTS of added complexity
• The C3s are available for Dell, IBM T30 laptops and also on an external USB hard drive. The total package is about 60 GB for all of the software. I recommend putting a nice big hard drive on your laptop with a virgin copy of Windows XP, and partitioning that drive with an 80GB partition. Then clone the USB hard drive image you get to that 80GB partition. That way everything is on one hard drive and this helps the overall loading speed quite a bit.
• The C3 software on the external hard drive ships as a VMware virtual machine image of the IBM T30 SDS that MB sells to dealers and indy shops.
• The software can be a bit difficult for some folks to install and get going. Most of the sellers do provide technical support via chat, email and often then can even do a remote session by where you can let them access your computer over the Internet remotely so that they can configure the software if there is an error with your configuration.
• I DO NOT IN ANY WAY recommend installing this on your home or any sort of "production" laptop that you would use for any regular home tasks. Rather, get a used laptop off of eBay or Craigslist and use this as the Garage/SDS computer. It's OK to have it hooked up to your internet connection (particularly if you need tech support) but you DO NOT want to have this garage/SDS computer sharing files or accessible from or with any other computers that you have in your home, particularly if you rely on them for anything important.
• Some of the Chinese systems do have Trojans and virii on them, and some of these do not necessarily get picked up by antivirus software. This is the main reason why I DO recommend that you run the garage system in isolation and DO NOT let it communicate or share files with any other computers you have.
• The hardware (multiplexer box, cables, etc.) are all pretty high quality and should last just fine for normal, occasional workshop usage. Just make sure you have the "38-pin" cable for use with your 500E/E500, as well as any post-1992 R129 or W140. Model Year 2000 was the last year that any MB used the 38-pin connector (it first appeared on the 500E). The W220 S-Class was the first S-model not to use the 38-pin connector.
• You MUST have at least 1GB of memory in your laptop, and more is better. 2GB would be optimal.

Bottom line: It's the cheapest way to go if you want to REALLY get into your car's computers and see what's happening. But there are some tradoffs in terms of speed, complexity, etc. The integration with the Xentry, WIS, EPC and StarFinder is super nice, particularly for diagnosing and fixing issues. You can learn where all types of stuff on your car is located, which is super cool and often times fascinating.

I'd recommend getting a used HHT if you just want to access your car's computers and you have 500E-era cars (late 124s, 129s, 140s, 210s, 211s, 202s, 203s, etc.). You won't have the WIS or the EPC or the other stuff, but there are enough sources out there for the E500E/124 service manuals (via startekinfo.com) and the EPC (free at epc.startekinfo.com) that having that stuff is not imperative. However if you have newer MBs, the importance of having the complete SDS becomes more and more of a "must". For my personal world of the R107, W and C126, and the late 124, I'd be more than good with just the HHT, frankly.

Hope this helps everyone. Sorry for writing a novel.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Christian_K]

Thanks for that summarization gerry, i'm pretty sure this will help others. However i tend to disagree on some points.

The hardware (multiplexer box, cables, etc.) are all pretty high quality and should last just fine for normal, occasional workshop usage.

First is the hardware of the C3 (Multiplexers, Cables, etc). There are a hell of a lot differences in Quality, trust me. There is a company in Germany repairing SDS Systems and i've spoken with them quite a lot the months before i finally bought my Super-MB-Star SDS System, they tried *ALL* copies on the market from time to time. They told me Horror-Stories from customers, etc. Some cables on the cheaper C3s are not fused and can grill your ECU's, or the Multiplexers PCB Board-thickness is to low to handle a more often usage, parts on the cheap boards regularly go burned, etc etc.
The cheap Multiplexers also tend to loose connection quite often and are not good enough shielded against electromagnetic energy. Etc etc. Same is written in many german Forums. Thats why i had lots and lots of contact to people that use the clones and to figure out, what the really "best" C3 Multiplexer-Clone is, which includes ALL MB cables and they tell you everywhere that its the Super-MB-Star. They have a 8 Layer-PCB (more than the original ACTIA C3 Multiplexer), the Cables are extremely thick/solid and the OBD2 connectors are the best Quality-wise i've ever seen in my life. The others floating around on Alibaba certainly don't have that.
So i would not want to buy a cheap crap thing here just for security reasons to not grill my ECU's as they are even more expensive than such a SDS System. However thats just my opinion.

The best place to get the Chinese C3 and C4 clones is via Alibaba.com (Aliexpress.com)

Alibaba is actually primarily used for wholesale, or in other word B2B. I have numerous times tried to buy stuff from chinese companies but as soon as they hear that i'm from Germany, they demand a proper self-employment/company-ceo license or they wont ship. I wonder why this supposedly works for US but not for germany :-(
Also the information listed there is pretty scattered and every manufacturer claims to be "the best". If you search for SDS devices there you get like 100.000 results. They even copy each other, just search there for "Super MB Star". So "Super MB Star" is a (good quality) hack n' clone of the SDS C3 and then there are other Chinese companies who now clone the Super Mb Star and claim its "genuine" (Selling price was 5$/Set when taking a 1000 copies lol).

Thats why i went with a Honkong-based company that tried (and sells) all the C3-Multiplexers, Cables and Software and assured me the Super-MB-Star is the highest quality hardware you can get from the clone-industry. Also those were the ones that withheld me from buying a newer wireless C4 device, despite selling them for a much higher price than Super MB Star C3 was. So this showed me personally that they are some sort of "honest" - they simply could have told me the stars from the sky and i would have went with a less reliable C4 version.

Another "Pro" side on the Super MB Star as compared to the other SDS clones is that the delivered software package is more complete than with others. You have for instance stuff like Parts-Locator and installation-Videos for all newer models there. Heck they even show in those Videos how to remove outside mirrors on a CL215 for instance.
The external HDD on the Super MB Star has 250GB and is almost Full with a single VMWare image ;-)

For me and given the money i already earned with the device (resetting countless ASSYST interavals, DTC readouts, etc etc) it was the best decision i've done so far. The device runs rock-solid.

I'd recommend getting a used HHT if you just want to access your car's computers and you have 500E-era cars (late 124s, 129s, 140s, 210s, 211s, 202s, 203s, etc.). You won't have the WIS or the EPC or the other stuff, but there are enough sources out there for the E500E/124 service manuals (via startekinfo.com) and the EPC (free at epc.startekinfo.com) that having that stuff is not imperative. However if you have newer MBs, the importance of having the complete SDS becomes more and more of a "must". For my personal world of the R107, W and C126, and the late 124, I'd be more than good with just the HHT, frankly.

I disagree here too, but only because for the ROI. The best "bang for the buck" you get with an SDS clone. I've seen HHT running off on ebay with the fitting modules and cables we would need for 38pole M119s for around 800-1000€/$.
No sense to buy this for that price as the old HHT is completely emulated in the SDS System. If a fitting HHT with modules and cables would just cost around 100$ i would agree, but they don't. Also finding one is often like looking for the needle in the haystack.
When going for the SDS, you can do soooooo much more. I once connected that thing to a W204 and its really extremely impressive what can be done with it, tested, adjusted, really you could waste an entire week just with the SDS on a newer W204 to explore everything possible beyond DTC-Readout.

Those are just my 2 cents from my standpoint here.

 

[samiam44]

I'll ask here-

So maybe I'm mixing terms. Looking for a *C4* system. I here SDS, C3, C4, Xentry , multiplexer and all the kits I see via china have shown a board. So I'm guessing here and may need correction-- xentry is the software which runs SDS? multiplexer is just the multi-format communication to translate signal data to the computer(the box) and then you get cable sets. I hear software in developer mode? That's xentry? If I get a loaded Dell via a seller setup for C3- C4 would be an external hard drive and you do an external boot normally? I'm after simple here..

 

[E500star]

I'll ask here-

So maybe I'm mixing terms. Looking for a *C4* system. I here SDS, C3, C4, Xentry , multiplexer and all the kits I see via china have shown a board. So I'm guessing here and may need correction-- xentry is the software which runs SDS? multiplexer is just the multi-format communication to translate signal data to the computer(the box) and then you get cable sets. I hear software in developer mode? That's xentry? If I get a loaded Dell via a seller setup for C3- C4 would be an external hard drive and you do an external boot normally? I'm after simple here..

Xentry is the some kind of shell for the different software components(das/epc/wis)
Developer mode is the addition for the das which allows some special developer features for some cars (w220 for ex) but NOT FOR THE 124.

Yes,you need dell d630(the best solution,other pc will fit but with much more hassle), external drive is not needed(you may put it inside as a main) after that you must choose “part d3”(for 124 it will allow all the needed functionality) or “c4 sd connect” (allows WiFi connection)
But also should know that only 2014/09 xentry version has full virtual HHT inside das (100% needed for 124)