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Starter

kre8tive202

kre8tive202

E500E Enthusiast
Member
Tried to R/R my starter today but figured out it is a PITA. I gave up didnt even get the first lower bolt loose. Anyone have an idea how much a shop will charge me to R/R it. I have a new one already.

Thanks,
Mario

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I don't know book time but 3-5 hours wouldn't surprise me. If motor mounts are old, this is the time to do them, with the starter removed that job goes quite a bit faster.

:spend:
 
How do you get to the top bolt. Does the exhaust need to be removed?

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It can be done just a pain - make sure you have the correct plug on the new starter. If the not the shop will cut to make fit. Remember this is part of the lower engine harness.
 
yes good time to do the harness and the engine mounts / tranny mount as well. If you contemplate any Idler Arm Bushing replacement, hell of an easier task without the starter in the way....ask me how I know...:jono:
 
Yes, replace the lower wiring harness while the starter is removed! This will add extra time of course. If the shop does the work, make sure they route it properly. The trick Louis came up with (removing the connectors from the top side, to allow the metal bracket to slide off) should be a big help.

:klink:
 
I think you guys are loosing perspective without a lift?


First the factory tool is a 10mm allen swivel socket. You can get a good line if you go farther back. On my car, I took the trans mount loose and inserted a piece of wood which pried it over to give slightly more space. For the screw, I suggest buying one of those $10 kobolt tool kits from lows with the ratchet driver and the bit set. And for anyone complaining on doing this on a factory car- mine has headers... and it is many times worse getting at the upper bolt!!


M
 
Oh it nearly looked impossible when i was under the car. A lift would be better. Thank yo so much

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I did mine in the grass in front of my friends house. I would suggest buying the highest quality Allen bits you can afford for those starter bolts.

If they strip out you are royally boogered.
 
I bought new bolts to replace them once they get the old ones out. I dont want to take the chance

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kre8tive202 said:
How do you get to the top bolt. Does the exhaust need to be removed?

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Click to expand...

NO, If you have them you need about 2 feet of extensions with a knuckle joint between them and maybe a flex socket that allows the extension to go in at an angle. Once the 2 starter bolts are out the electric connections are easy BUT don't drop the starter and stretch the wires.

gsxr is right in the 3-5 hours. That's about what it took me.
 
Mario, I am no Guru, in fact the W124 500e is the car that I began really learning mechanics on. My car sat for over a year and I bought a diesel as a DD because I was too intimidated to do the lower harness and starter. I have done the starter swap numerous times now on two 500's (make sure you buy a new or good used one!). Recently, I have done the job in 30-45 min including jacking the car up.

The exhaust does not need to be removed, but the heat shielding is a nuisance. I can't imagine those giant starter bolts stripping if you are using the proper Allen bit. I removed those bolts with a regular ratchet and IIRC a 4 inch extension. I think the six inch extension was too long and jammed the ratchet too much up against the heat shield.

You can't really see the top bolt, just feel for it. The worst part of the job is navigating the starter out once you have it detached. I believe it needs to be rotated 180 degrees and angled at 45ish degrees to come out. The next biggest PITA is the metal dividers in place behind the starter. Replace them correctly.

The only thing to really worry about getting stripped is the small screw holding the (I think grounding wire) to the starter. Not a big deal if it does get stripped IF you are replacing the lower harness as well and you have a replacement screw, as you can cut the old harness if necessary.

Last time I did the starter was in the mud, in the dark, freezing cold, inhaling all sorts of unknown chemicals on the ground in a mechanics yard. If I can do it there, you can do it too.

http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8493
 
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Although I did it on a lift, I didn't think the job was too bad at all on my 1995 E420. I believe I used a short extension and a pivoting head ratchet for the top bolt. I didn't use the method with all the extensions.

Pretty straightforward, I thought.
 
[Wow,

Iteresting to hear how others accomplish this. 3-5 hrs? I didn't think it was a fun job, but minus putting on jackstands- I'd guess even on mine with headers it was less than that.. I'm sure this is obvious, but you want to use 1/2 drive and not 3/8 if possible for the extensions. They are a lot stiffer in torsion and don't flex, so the bolt breaks loose easier. Since the threads face fwd, if you are in a corrosion prone area- a little kroil on the threads on removal and a dab of antiseize on install won't hurt.
The nut and screw for the electrical connections are not horrible on a standard car. Mine has headers, which allows only 1 click at a time. Most cars, the rachet with a driver bit or a 90 degree screw driver works fine.

I think ppl crawl under the car and see the starter bolt right above them and then can't see the forest through the trees. I know it happened to me the first time.
 
Oddly enough after i banged on the starter solenoid a couple times, it has been working again. I have a new starter and lower wiring harness ready to be installed though. Hopefully i can get it to the shop next week

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OMG! This sounds like a nightmare. Yesterday I went to start the car and nothing. Not even a click or sound of any kind. Turn the lights on. They work. Check the fuses. All good. It's got to be the starter. The day before the engine started right up, had no problems driving 50 miles and I didn't have any issues restarting it. Although sometimes, I've had issues getting it to start for the last 2 years especially when it is warmed up or hot outside. The starter spins when I turn the key, but eventually, it always starts. I was thinking it was a matter of time before there would be a complete starter failure. What else could it be?
 
@mbzgurl, there's also a starter lockout related to the factory alarm on 1993-up models. Is yours a 1992 or 1993?

What you describe does sound like it might be a failing starter though...

:wormhole:
 
mbzgurl said:
OMG! This sounds like a nightmare. Yesterday I went to start the car and nothing. Not even a click or sound of any kind. Turn the lights on. They work. Check the fuses. All good. It's got to be the starter. The day before the engine started right up, had no problems driving 50 miles and I didn't have any issues restarting it. Although sometimes, I've had issues getting it to start for the last 2 years especially when it is warmed up or hot outside. The starter spins when I turn the key, but eventually, it always starts. I was thinking it was a matter of time before there would be a complete starter failure. What else could it be?
Click to expand...
@mbzgurl, That’s how my starter failed. It was after I drove to a local shopping center about 2 miles from home. Came back out and the car would not start. Nothing/nada not even a click. I installed a rebuilt MB starter. That was back in 2005 no more problems:)
 
It happened to me last year. I had ignored slow cranking and just attributed it to a weak battery. Luckily I had the 1/2" drive extension and Allen swivel for the top rear bolt. A 3/8" extension will flex too much if the bolts were previously torqued in too tightly or corroded.

www.500eboard.co

All I get is a click: Starter dead? | M119 Engine

Hello everyone, So after I solve my deceleration surging gremlin, I went to go use my car and all I get is a click, like the starter solenoid went bad. Checked all my connections and battery is charged. How often do our starters go bad. I cant believe that after I fix one issue, my starter...
www.500eboard.co www.500eboard.co
 
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A tip here is to get your original starter motor reconditioned by a specialist locally. They will also bench test it.

Buying a store rebuilt one can be poor quality rebuild and cost more! Best keep your original unit it probably really only requires a new solenoid at about $40...
 
I would be amazed if a shop in my town could replace a solenoid for about $40, especially using a Bosch part. I went with the dealer reman. You‘re right though—it was the solenoid.
 
TerryA said:
@mbzgurl, That’s how my starter failed. It was after I drove to a local shopping center about 2 miles from home. Came back out and the car would not start. Nothing/nada not even a click. I installed a rebuilt MB starter. That was back in 2005 no more problems:)
Click to expand...
Same for me. Back in 2007, I parked and went into a store for 5 minutes. Came back out and NOTHING. It was the starter.
 
I took out my gearbox on the 500E last week to do some reseals along with a new rear main seal and there was 1 bolt that made the job 2h longer... the top bolt of the starter! Even with a 1 meter extension-bar it wouldn't budge... had to cut off the bolt-head, which isn't easy in the tight space there is.
 
gsxr said:
@mbzgurl, there's also a starter lockout related to the factory alarm on 1993-up models. Is yours a 1992 or 1993?

What you describe does sound like it might be a failing starter though...

:wormhole:
Click to expand...
Mine is a 92'. There is an auto electric shop a mile from where I live but has no phone number listed and no reviews. And, I can't walk that far.
 
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JC220 said:
A tip here is to get your original starter motor reconditioned by a specialist locally. They will also bench test it.

Buying a store rebuilt one can be poor quality rebuild and cost more! Best keep your original unit it probably really only requires a new solenoid at about $40...
Click to expand...
I like this idea. But who is going to take it out and put it back in? I can't so I'm guessing $400+ for labor?
 
emerydc8 said:
I would be amazed if a shop in my town could replace a solenoid for about $40, especially using a Bosch part. I went with the dealer reman. You‘re right though—it was the solenoid.
Click to expand...
The guy I go to has been rebuilding starters and alternators his whole life and specialises in only that! He gives me great prices since I tend to bring him regular business from my cars. (I tend to proactively rebuild them of they are out of the car at any point for other reasons since they are now 30 odd years old)

He sources Cargo branded parts. This is a subsidiary of Bosch so they are absolutely 100% OEM quality parts.

Note a rebuilder can also just replace the solenoid cap which is the part that wears and fails mostly. But I tend to ask him to replace all bearings and complete solenoid etc when at it. Price varies but for a simple solenoid repair / replacement only it would be around what I said not much more anyway.

mbzgurl said:
I like this idea. But who is going to take it out and put it back in? I can't so I'm guessing $400+ for labor?
Click to expand...
For a shop not working on m119s every day I would allow 1.5 hrs labour say to R&R the starter. Just do agree with them before hand on the route for repair. Aka take it out and have it repaired or do the shop insist on a new unit etc.
 
1.5-2.0 hours is about right if everything goes smoothly. If a bolt socket head rounds out, or anything goes wrong, it could be 2-4 hours. Remember the steering wheel has to be turned to a certain position to allow the starter to sneak past the linkages. It isn't a fun job. $400 for labor could be about right, depending on your local rates, plus the cost of the starter. Rebuilt Bosch starters weren't that much $$$ last I checked, compare to a local rebuilder.
 
There's another shop nearby that specializes in starter rebuilds but it is just a shop, not a garage. I took a couple of automotive classes in college and rebuilt the starter for my Peugeot. It was a Bosch and if I remember right it wasn't a difficult job and the parts didn't cost much either but that was decades ago. Cost-wise, what do you suggest I do? Rebuild the one I have or buy a remanufactured Bosch or other brand? What other parts should I get while the starter is out? I'm just trying to stretch my money (without starving) cuz I just bought window regulators for all 4 windows and 4 new tires and it need tie-rods, and some other parts before I get the alignment done. No telling what else I'll find that needs replacing, so this venture might cost more than just a starter....like motor mounts, flex disk, bushings etc, it all needs to be done, plus more. Maybe sell it? No! Not yet. It's the only car I have at the moment....my ML500 is stolen, and the BMW X5 needs guide rails, just another expense I don't want. Oh well....
 
I’d bite the bullet and buy a MB remanufactured starter. It’s pay me now or pay me later. R&R the starter is the PITA. Labor charges by competent garage should be around 2 hours. If possible, buy the starter yourself and find a reasonable installer.

Good Luck

PS: MBpartsonline / Naperville wants $233.84 + $80.00 core. Wow, that starter has doubled in price since I purchased one in 2005.
 
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Am I the only one who doesn't think replacing the starter is a big deal?

I used a 3/8" ratchet with a swivel head to get the top bolt. That way I could get right at the bolt and not have to use 3' of extensions.

I turned the steering wheel like the manual says and the starter came right out.

Full disclosure, I was working on a friend's lift. But still, it wasn't that hard.
 
It's MUCH easier with a lift, and if the 2 bolts come free, and if you can remove the Phillips-head screw on the solenoid without problems. Less than 2 hours total, if even that long.

Any of the above go wrong, and it's a miserable job.

:duck:
 
luckymike said:
Am I the only one who doesn't think replacing the starter is a big deal?

I used a 3/8" ratchet with a swivel head to get the top bolt. That way I could get right at the bolt and not have to use 3' of extensions.

I turned the steering wheel like the manual says and the starter came right out.

Full disclosure, I was working on a friend's lift. But still, it wasn't that hard.
Click to expand...
@luckymike, I’m sure w/ a lift it easier to see what your doing. It’s not such a fun job on your back in the driveway. I used about the same 2-3’ of extensions and a swivel joint on a 1/2” drive. It was no problem once I figured it out but I spent 3 or 4 hours I don’t actually remember but it was a PITA. The new one went in pretty fast.

lol
 
mbzgurl said:
There's another shop nearby that specializes in starter rebuilds but it is just a shop, not a garage. I took a couple of automotive classes in college and rebuilt the starter for my Peugeot. It was a Bosch and if I remember right it wasn't a difficult job and the parts didn't cost much either but that was decades ago. Cost-wise, what do you suggest I do? Rebuild the one I have or buy a remanufactured Bosch or other brand? What other parts should I get while the starter is out? I'm just trying to stretch my money (without starving) cuz I just bought window regulators for all 4 windows and 4 new tires and it need tie-rods, and some other parts before I get the alignment done. No telling what else I'll find that needs replacing, so this venture might cost more than just a starter....like motor mounts, flex disk, bushings etc, it all needs to be done, plus more. Maybe sell it? No! Not yet. It's the only car I have at the moment....my ML500 is stolen, and the BMW X5 needs guide rails, just another expense I don't want. Oh well....
Click to expand...
If you were near me I would for sure use the rebuilder I know and it will be 100% and cost effective.

However, not knowing who you would have to rebuild over there the Bosch rebuilt item for you appears to be a reasonable cost solution and probably the best one unless you can get solid recommendations of an experienced rebuilder near you.
 
gsxr said:
P/N 004-151-78-01, $165-$185 for Bosch rebuilt plus core charge (refunded when you return the old one). FCP includes lifetime warranty.

Mercedes-Benz Starter (Rebuilt) 004151780183 - BOSCH

www.rmeuropean.com

Mercedes Starter Motor - Bosch 0041517801

Mercedes Starter Motor - Bosch 0041517801
www.fcpeuro.com
Click to expand...
I think you're right, buy a re-manufactured starter and find a lift and a mechanic that has done them many times before. While the starter is out what should I have done that makes sense? It needs motor mounts and probably tranny mounts.
 
Last edited:
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