All I get is a click: Starter dead?

[kre8tive202]

Hello everyone,

So after I solve my deceleration surging gremlin, I went to go use my car and all I get is a click, like the starter solenoid went bad. Checked all my connections and battery is charged. How often do our starters go bad. I cant believe that after I fix one issue, my starter is toast. How difficult is it to change out the starter.

Thanks,
Mario

 

[ALL500]

Re: All I get is a click

If it is the starter and you have to change it, it's *fairly* easy.

IIRC, there are three heat shield bolts/nuts. The one closest to the engine bay, I did with a wrench instead of a ratchet (it's at an odd angle).

There are two wire connections on the starter and one requires a tiny screwdriver with a very short handle, or small socket wrench. Be careful not to strip this screw! Use a few rounds of penetrating oil if needed and look out for dropping the little washer.

There are two large bolts on the back of the starter, the top one is hard to see. With the socket wrench/ratchet again (sorry can't remember all the sizes) and an extender (3 inch, I *think* 6 was too long) those bolts require a LOT of turns.

Careful when you get close to removing those bolts (top first might be better) so that the starter doesn't drop down. It likely won't fall out, but still.

Take note of the thin metal inserts (you'll see) and what order/direction they are in before you remove the bolts completely. Replace them in the proper order (I didn't a couple times, not fun re-doing it).

The starter must be twisted and rotated to be cleared, once you get the correct angle (I think it was a 180 degree rotation and 45 degree upward angle), remember exactly what that is. Trying to jam the new one back in on the wrong angle, again, is no fun.

 

[ALL500]

Re: All I get is a click

PS, if you have not replaced your lower harness, check it's condition closely. No point in doing the starter if your harness is going bad.

http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8493

 

[TerryA]

Re: All I get is a click

I bought my 500E about 12 years ago w/ 87K on the clock. The starter went out within the 1st year. Buy only a genuine MB rebuilt and you will be OK for a long time. I'm now just over 140K 12 years later and no problems.

PS: Changing the starter is a PITA job laying on your back in the driveway. Only 2 bolts hold it in but it's very tight quarters. I had to use 1/4" socket extensions (about 2 feet and a flex knuckle + a flex socket). I was back by the CATs with the socket drive. The wire connections are easy once the starter is loose but make sure not to drop it and stretch them or you may suffer some damage.

Anyway I got it done but it's not like crawling under your old Chevy and spending a1/2 hour and it's done.

All500 has a point about the lower harness. If I had to do it again I would have changed it also BUT I've made it 12 years plus on the original lower harness. I will be changing it out pretty soon though (up by the A/C Compressor there is damage to it from the dreaded PS pump leak) before it starts to short out.

Good Luck w/ the FIX

 

[gsxr]

Re: All I get is a click

If you attempt starter R&R... before tearing into it, try to loosen the main 2 socket-head bolts which fasten the starter to the transmission. They are not easy to access, and if a previous muppet mechanic has partly stripped out the socket heads, you'll be in for a world of fun. Better to find out BEFORE you start the job, rather than have everything else ripped apart and then find you can't get it out. If you can crack them loose, you are (usually) golden.

Also - make sure the clicking noise is coming from the starter itself. If so, it's pretty likely the starter did fail. Bosch OEM remans are relatively inexpensive, available on Amazon or your other favorite interweb vendor.

004-151-78-01 - Starter, ~$375 dealer list; ~$300 discount. Aftermarket Bosch SR461X reman is ~$175 plus core charge / S&H.

000912-012062 - 2 large bolts which mount starter to transmission. A few years ago they were $4 list, now they are $17.50 list. EACH!!

 

[gsxr]

Re: All I get is a click

All500 has a point about the lower harness.... I will be changing it out pretty soon though (up by the A/C Compressor there is damage to it from the dreaded PS pump leak) before it starts to short out.

Terry, FYI... the lower harness (to starter/alternator) is on the passenger side only. If you have wiring issues on the driver side, with the wires to the A/C compressor, that is completely separate. Those are part of the body harness which is not practical to replace. You can cut/splice in new wires if needed. From memory, the only wires in that area are the 3 to the A/C compressor itself, and yes it is a relatively common problem.

 

[emerydc8]

Re: All I get is a click

004-151-78-01 - Starter, ~$375 dealer list; ~$300 discount. Aftermarket Bosch SR461X reman is ~$175 plus core charge / S&H.

000912-012062 - 2 large bolts which mount starter to transmission. A few years ago they were $4 list, now they are $17.50 list. EACH!!

My starter finally died. Any difference between a dealer reman starter and a Bosch reman from AutohausAZ? QC-wise, are they the same standards?

 

[gsxr]

AFAIK, if it's a Bosch rebuild, it should be OK. You may notice substantially faster cranking with the new starter. Fun job, btw...

 

[emerydc8]

AFAIK, if it's a Bosch rebuild, it should be OK. You may notice substantially faster cranking with the new starter. Fun job, btw...

I remember doing the other car about ten years ago and the bolt was fused on so tightly that I snapped a long 3/8" extension. I ended up having to get a 20" x 1/2" extension to do the job.

 

[TerryA]

My starter finally died. Any difference between a dealer reman starter and a Bosch reman from AutohausAZ? QC-wise, are they the same standards?

I bought an MB Reman for my 500E. When I first got my car in 2004. I only had it a couple of months. I went to get a haircut one Saturday and when I came out it wouldn’t start. I had to have It trailered about a mile home to my driveway. I was really bummed out

Anyway, I bought a Reman from Anaheim Hills Mercedes for around $90.00 at the time and went home and spent 2 or 3 hours installing it. What a PITA job removing two bolts and a couple of nuts. It was my first DIY on my Benz and I had no special tools. I remember using about 2 feet of 3/8” extensions converted to a 1/2” ratchet driver to finally bust the two 13 mm bolts ? loose. Anyway I finally got it out All while laying on my back in the driveway.

The reman went in a lot faster once I got the right sequence together. That was 16 years ago and it’s still working great.

If did it, I know you can DO IT!

Good Luck

 

[emerydc8]

I bought an MB Reman for my 500E. When I first got my car in 2004. I only had it a couple of months. I went to get a haircut one Saturday and when I came out it wouldn’t start. I had to have It trailered about a mile home to my driveway. I was really bummed out

I had mine towed from the post office today for $115. I had been ignoring the occasional slow cranking for the past year because when I reengaged the starter, it always started fine on the second try. It finally came back to bite me today. I got nothing when I turned the key -- not even a click.

Luckily I had the right tools and it took me about an hour to get the starter out of the car. There is a 10mm bolt on top of the starter shield that I was able to use a 1/4" drive extension and a flex extension that worked very well. The 20" x 1/2" extension, breaker bar, universal swivel and 10mm Allen socket made starter bolt removal the easiest part of the job this time. Luckily whoever did it last time didn't use an air wrench to tighten the bolts.

Just to verify it was a bad starter, once I got the splash shield removed, I hit the starter a few times with a blow hammer, reconnected the battery and the starter worked on the first try. Anyway, I decided to pull it out and order a new one. It's not the original starter and I have no idea when it was last replaced -- at least 80,000 miles ago. It's amazing that Mercedes must have designed the lower crossmember so the starter would have just enough room to slip out when the wheels are turned to the left. Not a millimeter to spare.

 

[nocfn]

I have two starters I purchased that were rebuilt. One was sent since they delayed the original order and I did not have to return it. It was rebuilt bought through Amazon, and it came from one of the larger reman dealers. It was plug and play. My hardest part was getting the small Phillips screw for one of the wires since the space was small. This was in the C126, but the E500E is just as much of a pain. (lower harness requires the same attention) Take off what you need to get access (duh - remove negative battery cable) and expect to take time as there are no short cuts as mentioned above. And yes if the car is on stands, turn wheels to the left stop to create a bit more space for removal on the W124 before you pull the battery cable.

 

[gerryvz]

My starter failed on my E500 at the end of 2007 or so, when I was living in Portland. I had noticed a slightly longer crank time, but given that it was the winter time, I just thought it was because of a weaker battery. No notice -- just gave out when I parked the car one time whilst out doing Christmas-related errands. Had the car towed the mile or so to my shop in Portland, and they installed a rebuilt Bosch starter that has been fine ever since.

I did notice immediately that the new starter cranked demonstrably faster than the old one, as the @gsxr said.

The failure rate on reman stuff can be somewhat high, though it is probable that any rebuilt starter will be fine. I had a rebuilt alternator installed on my 560SEC just before I drove it from Portland to Houston in early 2009. The alternator failed and pretty much was bad out of the box. A second Bosch reman fixed the issue, and it's been fine ever since (save for replacing the voltage regulator once, a pretty easy job). And I have seen and heard of other Bosch reman stuff being bad out of the box. A bit of Russian Roulette, but hopefully you never have to experience it.

 

[emerydc8]

The slower crank time was a fair warning which i ignored to my peril. I decided to order the starter through MB of Scottsdale hoping that maybe MB has better QC over their remans.

 

[500AMM]

My ex. Limited suddenly got a starter issue, but I'm not sure it is clicking and I didn't notice any slower cranking prior to this. I haven't pulled any codes, the mileage is 220 000 km. I suspect a failing NSS (neutral safety switch), any thoughts?

 

[gsxr]

My ex. Limited suddenly got a starter issue, but I'm not sure it is clicking and I didn't notice any slower cranking prior to this. I haven't pulled any codes, the mileage is 220 000 km. I suspect a failing NSS (neutral safety switch), any thoughts?

Try moving the shifter to N position and see if there is any change.

 

[500AMM]

I think I've done most of the shifter exercise, but my question was actually about the clicking but after some thinking I end up with dual answers. If the starter is defect it's either the el.motor or the starter relay. In case the el.motor fails, the relay will anyway give a click, but if the relay fails it does not click. I assume the NSS cuts the power circuit to the starter realy, so if the NSS fails the relay won't click. So with no clicking, I sit back with either a defect NSS or a defect starter relay. It can be other issues of course, like a broken wire, defect ignition lock etc...

 

[emerydc8]

I think I've done most of the shifter exercise, but my question was actually about the clicking but after some thinking I end up with dual answers. If the starter is defect it's either the el.motor or the starter relay. In case the el.motor fails, the relay will anyway give a click, but if the relay fails it does not click. I assume the NSS cuts the power circuit to the starter realy, so if the NSS fails the relay won't click. So with no clicking, I sit back with either a defect NSS or a defect starter relay. It can be other issues of course, like a broken wire, defect ignition lock etc...

My old starter is on the work bench. Based on your proposition, it was the starter relay that went bad on mine since there was no click. It was an intermittent problem and, as I stated above, it actually worked before I removed it from the car. I'll take a multi-meter to it if anyone has any suggestions on testing it.

On a related note, I made the mistake of ordering a reman starter from Mercedes of Scottsdale on March 3. I called last Friday to check the status. They said they had to drop-ship it from Robinsville. I called today and found that it was just picked up in Robinsville. FedEx has an estimated delivery date of Friday, March 12. Nothing like 9 days to get a part. I should have ordered from GVZ's dealer there in MD. When I ordered from Scottsdale's website, I was thinking there was an option to expedite shipping on checkout, but no such luck. I think this will be my last order from Scottsdale. I guess everyone's still using the scamdemic excuse for delayed service?

 

[gsxr]

Jon, there are a bunch of other dealers to try, but I don't know which is best for expedited shipping. In general if you need something fast, don't order online, get a live person on the phone and discuss your options. Dealers can get parts overnight (VOR) to their location but then would have to ship to you. I don't know if they can overnight drop-ship without excess cost. This is when it is handy if you have a relationship with the local dealer and can pick up the part the next day.

BTW, the Texas/midwest snowstorms caused severe backlogs for all shipping carriers. While they mostly have caught up, I think there are still a handful of delays along some routes.

 

[emerydc8]

Thanks, Dave. My frustration stems from the fact that MB Scottsdale did not offer expedited shipping on this part and then waited four days to have it drop-shipped from RBV. Neither of those had anything to do with the weather that happened two weeks ago. Maybe I'm unlucky, but it has been my experience that most of the people at these dealer parts shops seem to be overloaded and in a hurry to get off the phone. The last thing they want to do is spend time helping someone get a part sooner than whatever it takes for their normal Internet web order process.

 

[gsxr]

It does sound like Scottsdale dropped the ball. I'd be upset too. Might be worth trying MB Classic Center in SoCal, I think they'd at least not rush you off the phone.

 

[emerydc8]

After the 9-day wait, I can only hope the paint job is not reflective of the time they spent rebuilding the starter for Mercedes. It makes me wonder if Mercedes holds Bosch to any tighter standards than say one that Bosch rebuilt for sale at AHAZ or FCP.

 

[emerydc8]

I did notice immediately that the new starter cranked demonstrably faster than the old one, as the @gsxr said.

+1. I should have changed it a long time ago.