OWNER Surf Blau (Norsker)

[Surf Blau]

Ok, got it - I uploaded it to YouTube:

I plan to service the transmission when it gets warmer, but fear this might be a more serious symptom than overdue filter and oil.. Any ideas?

 

[gsxr]

Looks like an idle oscillation to me, not related to the transmission. Most likely cause is a vacuum leak somewhere. I'd start with a smoke test on the intake manifold.

 

[Surf Blau]

Looks like an idle oscillation to me, not related to the transmission. Most likely cause is a vacuum leak somewhere. I'd start with a smoke test on the intake manifold.

Good point! My initial thought was that the transmission had too much or uneven resistance while applying the brake, ie when engine and transmission works against each other, but I guess a vacuum leak would do the same.

How do you test for vacuum leaks with a smoke machine?

 

[gsxr]

Good point! My initial thought was that the transmission had too much or uneven resistance while applying the brake, ie when engine and transmission works against each other, but I guess a vacuum leak would do the same.

How do you test for vacuum leaks with a smoke machine?

Basically, you seal up the intake as much as possible, and find a way to feed smoke from the machine into the manifold. For example, you may want to block the MAF with a latex glove or thin plastic (Saran wrap), then feed the smoke into the large PCV hose that enters the base of the ETA. I think that will work.

With low-pressure (1-2 psi?) smoke injected, look for smoke coming out anywhere around the intake manifold, or vacuum hoses in the engine compartment. Ideally there should be none.

 

[Surf Blau]

Basically, you seal up the intake as much as possible, and find a way to feed smoke from the machine into the manifold. For example, you may want to block the MAF with a latex glove or thin plastic (Saran wrap), then feed the smoke into the large PCV hose that enters the base of the ETA. I think that will work.

With low-pressure (1-2 psi?) smoke injected, look for smoke coming out anywhere around the intake manifold, or vacuum hoses in the engine compartment. Ideally there should be none.

Ok, I see, thanks - I honestly didn’t think of checking the system in isolation, only to check it while running

 

[Lowman]

Ok, got it - I uploaded it to YouTube:

I plan to service the transmission when it gets warmer, but fear this might be a more serious symptom than overdue filter and oil.. Any ideas?

Er ikke ASR lyset på ?

 

[Surf Blau]

Er ikke ASR lyset på ?

Jo, det har dessverre ikke fikset seg selv i løpet av vinteren

Translation: my ASR-light is still on..

 

[Lowman]

Jo, det har dessverre ikke fikset seg selv i løpet av vinteren

Translation: my ASR-light is still on..

ah ha.Ja Da kan det være grunn til den jagingen.Mitt ASR lys har kommet på ettpar ganger grunnet feil på nøytralgirkasse bryteren,og dette vil gjøre at tomgang kan jakte sånn som den gjør på din.Den gjorde det på min.Vil anbefale deg å få lest ut feilkoder,og se hva som er årsaken til det først.Om det evnt er noen nye feilkoder,VISS du har lest ut før.

ah ha. Yes, then there may be a reason for the chasing. My ASR light has come on a couple of times due to a fault with the neutral gearbox switch, and this will cause the idle to chase like it does on yours. It did on mine. I would recommend that you have the fault codes read out, and see what is the cause of it first. If there are any new fault codes, MAKE SURE you have read them out before.

 

[Surf Blau]

ah ha.Ja Da kan det være grunn til den jagingen.Mitt ASR lys har kommet på ettpar ganger grunnet feil på nøytralgirkasse bryteren,og dette vil gjøre at tomgang kan jakte sånn som den gjør på din.Den gjorde det på min.Vil anbefale deg å få lest ut feilkoder,og se hva som er årsaken til det først.Om det evnt er noen nye feilkoder,VISS du har lest ut før.

ah ha. Yes, then there may be a reason for the chasing. My ASR light has come on a couple of times due to a fault with the neutral gearbox switch, and this will cause the idle to chase like it does on yours. It did on mine. I would recommend that you have the fault codes read out, and see what is the cause of it first. If there are any new fault codes, MAKE SURE you have read them out before.

Cool, thanks for the tip! I will make sure to check for codes once spring arrives! Do you remember the pin# for that?

What’s weird is that it only started doing this once the car reached operating temperature

 

[Lowman]

Cool, thanks for the tip! I will make sure to check for codes once spring arrives! Do you remember the pin# for that?

What’s weird is that it only started doing this once the car reached operating temperature

Husker desverre ikke hvilket system som flagga feilkoden,om det var ABS/ASR, LH elller EA(gasspjeld ) EA er pin 7, ABS/ASR er pin6 og LH/motor er pin 4.
Så bilen er ikke alltid sånn som dette? Jeg mener fremdeles at du bør finne ut ASR feilen først, da den absolutt kan få bilen til å jage sånn som dette...

Unfortunately I don't remember which system flagged the error code, whether it was ABS/ASR, LH or EA (throttle) EA is pin 7, ABS/ASR is pin 6 and LH/engine is pin 4. So the car isn't always like this? I still think you should find out the ASR error first, as it can definitely make the car chase like this...

 

[gsxr]

See the attachments in this post for details on which pin is for which system.

 

[Surf Blau]

Easter marks the start of the season for pretty much anything seasonal (for the warmer part of the year that is) here in Norway, and I try to follow up as best I can - this year it was the 500E that got the honor of going out first, and yesterday I took advantage of the beautiful spring weather and drove it around the lake we live at. A quick summary to start with; I love the feel of this car!

After checking the essentials, it started up as if parked yesterday, and the first bit of the drive went to the gas station for some fresh 98. There was a vibration seemingly from the front of the car at around 100km/h (~60mph), and the transmission shifts a bit hard when cold, but besides that it hadn't gained any new issues over the winter. After filling it up I kept driving, and the vibrations disappeared - but after a quick stop to enjoy the scenery (car left idling) it began sputtering/hesitating whenever I was semi-determined on the throttle - flooring it felt smooth, as did gentle cruising. I suspect this to be an issue with moisture in the distributors, as i haven't had a chance to modify these yet. I'm also thinking it may be related to the ASR-light coming on, as @Lowman suggest further up. I have to get this issue sorted once and for all this year - last year the new-car-experience was to big, and it performed so well I never made myself prioritize it





When I got back home it idled normally and sounded healthy as well - despite this it went straight on the lift for some much needed work on the steering, which has been a bit clonky ever since I bought the car. I have accumulated a lot of parts for the suspension, and am anxious to see what it feels like once it's finished!


(Yes, my "garage" is an old barn )

The first order of business after getting it up in the air was to check for leaks or anything looking off, but for a 33 year old user (aka not a garage queen) it looks pretty good! A little oil residue here and there, but no active drips or anything that looks immediate, neither from the engine nor the transmission. I'll renew all the fluids before I start using it again this season, so I'll inspect further then.

Since I had few more minutes before other duties I got to work immediately and was surprised at how easily the right tie rod came loose - hopefully this is an indicator for the rest of the parts as well. I didn't have time to do much more than the right tie rod and steering damper yesterday, but the latter was completely shot - I suspect these to be neglected/overlooked by many.

Not looking forward to do the idler arm bushings as this engine bay is *tight*, but looking at it quickly I noticed something off with the heat shields above it - what's going on here - am I missing something, or is this just installed incorrectly?




Two down, several to go!

 

[gsxr]

Your idler arm heat shields appear to be installed incorrectly. See this thread for details on the bushing replacement, and there are also photos of how the shields interconnect.

 

[Surf Blau]

Your idler arm h eat shields appear to be installed incorrectly. See this thread for details on the bushing replacement, and there are also photos of how the shields interconnect.

Thanks a lot!

 

[TerryA]

@Lowman,
Stephan, Wow! you’re getting killed on the cost of that idler arm bushing 129-460-00-19. Norway or “Morepay” really means “WayMore” I checked the price at two different online MB Parts here in US one was $43.80 other was $44.80.

 

[gsxr]

Terry, the idler arm kit 129-460-00-19 is NLA now... some of the components went NLA, so the kit is NLA. This kit had been around $150-$200 USD list price, or $110-$140 from discount dealers. But yes, €330 is nuts. The kit is used on the 124.034/036 chassis and all R129.

If you search for the kit number, the dealers will show an incorrect supercession 129-463-00-50 instead, which is a single rubber bearing (2 required). $61 list, <$45 from discount dealers, each... about $85-$90 for the two rubber pieces. You need to re-use all the old metal hardware (bolt, nut, washers). $90 for the two bushings is still a lot better than €330!

 

[Lowman]

@Lowman,
Stephan, Wow! you’re getting killed on the cost of that idler arm bushing 129-460-00-19. Norway or “Morepay” really means “WayMore” I checked the price at two different online MB Parts here in US one was $43.80 other was $44.80.

yeah.it was a ridicilous price for sure. These days ,partsprices are even more ridicilous to be fair. This particular kit is not available anymore though..Ps:Video is many years old

 

[Surf Blau]

Thanks for the input guys - and I actually watched your video earlier today @Lowman

As mentioned in the thread questioning the amount of play in my steering gear box, the last ball joint was a proper final boss which gave me plenty of opportunity to explore curse words and creative solutions. But, that is water under the bridge, as the car is ready for new tie rods and drag link now.

What came out and what will go in:


I also managed to remove the old bushings for the idler arm, which were a lot crumblier than expected once I (finally) got them out. I actually struggled a bit with this as well, as the lower one completely disintegrated and - again - gave me the chance to revisit my repertoire of bad words. The upper one started coming apart as well, but then I tried using a socket with an extension to knock the rest out in one piece which worked great.

How the idler arm ended up after I yanked out the inner sleeve:


The remains of the old bushings and the new ones. Same part# and all, the only difference I could see was the number 12/13 vs 16:


I finally got this one out as well, and remembered that the heat shields on the passenger side were installed incorrectly, so I figured I’d have a go myself. Now I understand why they were installed the way they were though, as I cannot for the life of me figure out where the third panel is supposed to go.. I’m at a loss here, wondering whether this panel even belong to this car, or if there is a missing bracket somewhere.. Any advice or drawings showing their relation to each other is highly appreciated here!

The two obvious shields trial fitted easily:


…and then the third, mystery one:


PS: there is hole in the middle of this that I believe has been “custom made” in desperation by the last person trying to fit this..

 

[Surf Blau]

Looking at @Lowmans video it seems the mystery shield is supposed to go against the engine/starter - is this correct?

 

[dreaming.haze]

You installed the two shield metals for the idler arm correctly. That third one should go against the starter.

 

[Surf Blau]

You installed the two shield metals for the idler arm correctly. That third one should go against the starter.

Thanks! Do you know if there should be a bracket to attach it onto?

 

[gsxr]

Nice work! And as noted above, yes, the third / mystery heat shield goes over the starter motor. It will only fit in 1 position. I can't find a photo... will need to try to get a picture of this shield installed.

 

[Surf Blau]

Nice work! And as noted above, yes, the third / mystery heat shield goes over the starter motor. It will only fit in 1 position. I can't find a photo... will need to try to get a picture of this shield installed.

Thanks! And thanks for the pointer, I’ll continue trying to figure out the proper position for it tomorrow

 

[dreaming.haze]

@Surf Blau - This video shows how the shield is mounted:

Of course this is off the car / free standing motor view.

Hopefully the time stamp holds, but 14:28 in should be the view.

 

[Efraim]

Couple years ago I bought a set of steering linkages that included A129 330 03 03, while the dealer told me it was the last piece in the MB organization. After my order the stock was empty. Today I saw one in your picture. So it's good to know that original parts production exists and MB occasionally places orders to fill up their stock.

 

[Surf Blau]

@Surf Blau - This video shows how the shield is mounted:

Of course this is off the car / free standing motor view.

Hopefully the time stamp holds, but 14:28 in should be the view.

Thanks a lot, that’s super helpful!

 

[Surf Blau]

Couple years ago I bought a set of steering linkages that included A129 330 03 03, while the dealer told me it was the last piece in the MB organization. After my order the stock was empty. Today I saw one in your picture. So it's good to know that original parts production exists and MB occasionally places orders to fill up their stock.

Oh, really? I had quite a bit of back and forth with my parts supplier as so many parts are NLA these days - ended up with 0203 and 0303; and actually bought two sets just in case

Good to hear that some parts come back from the dead again!

 

[Surf Blau]

Is this the original starter setup for an M119?



The reason I’m asking is because I still cannot fit the mystery shield any way here - it seems the starter is too long for the shield, and considering there is what looks like a date label reading 25-2019 on it, I’m wondering if it was replaced with an aftermarket unit..



In short; if I hook the panel onto the threaded stud towards the front of the car, the two ear holes towards the rear float in mid air.. If I try to align one of the holes at the rear of the panel against anything that looks compatible on the starter, it either rubs severely on the cable harness or basically does not fit. Either way the other two holes are nowhere near anything they might connect to.

I tried to document what I just described through pictures, but it’s not the easiest of motives to snap:

 

[gsxr]

The starter looks correct, although I can't confirm from the part number stamped on yours.

I'm not sure why it isn't lining up:

 

[Surf Blau]

The starter looks correct, although I can't confirm from the part number stamped on yours.

I'm not sure why it isn't lining up:

View attachment 235269 View attachment 235270

Ok, problem solved thanks to your photo of an OEM-spec starter here - the panel is not the mystery part, the starter fitted to my car is the mystery part. For some reason a starter without the proper tabs for the heat shield is installed, and thus the "mystery shield" has no place to mount. I'm guessing whoever replaced it noticed the same after installation, which resulted in the pretty haphazard installation of the shield that I found a couple of days ago..



As the pictures above shows, there are differences in the casting between the one @gsxr posted and the one installed in my car.


Now to figure out what to do, I figure there are three options:
1. Re-install the shield as it was when I found it, awaiting proper installion sometime in the future when the starter needs replacement (again)
2. Make a bracket to replicate the position of the two missing attachement points so that the shield can be installed in the correct position
3. Replace the starter with a correct unit

Neither sound great in my opinion.

 

[gsxr]

Nice find! I wonder if that is an M116/M117 starter perhaps?

If the starter is old... a new, correct one might be a good idea. I've learned over the years that an old starter will crank slowly, like the battery is weak (even with a new/strong battery).

 

[Surf Blau]

Nice find! I wonder if that is an M116/M117 starter perhaps?

If the starter is old... a new, correct one might be a good idea. I've learned over the years that an old starter will crank slowly, like the battery is weak (even with a new/strong battery).

That might be - Googling the part number my car is supposed to have (A0041517801) shows it being compatible with a lot of V8s from the 126s through 140s. To my ears it appears to be working well, as it should be if it was indeed replaced in 2019, but replacing it and knowing that everything is as it should be would be the best option for my OCD.

Any idea which brand of starter motors are good? There's quite a price jump between aftermarket parts and Mercedes-parts, even comparing Bosch and MB.

 

[gsxr]

I've always used Bosch reman/rebuilt units, and so far haven't had any issues. I don't think the OE MB starter is different in any way.

 

[Lowman]

Ok, problem solved thanks to your photo of an OEM-spec starter here - the panel is not the mystery part, the starter fitted to my car is the mystery part. For some reason a starter without the proper tabs for the heat shield is installed, and thus the "mystery shield" has no place to mount. I'm guessing whoever replaced it noticed the same after installation, which resulted in the pretty haphazard installation of the shield that I found a couple of days ago..

View attachment 235290View attachment 235289

As the pictures above shows, there are differences in the casting between the one @gsxr posted and the one installed in my car.


Now to figure out what to do, I figure there are three options:
1. Re-install the shield as it was when I found it, awaiting proper installion sometime in the future when the starter needs replacement (again)
2. Make a bracket to replicate the position of the two missing attachement points so that the shield can be installed in the correct position
3. Replace the starter with a correct unit

Neither sound great in my opinion.

Starteren din er en byttestarter.Renovert av ELStock.En av di " billig " renoverings systemene som er å få igjennom norske sider. Så det er derfor den mangler det feste til varmeskjoldet.

 

[Surf Blau]

Starteren din er en byttestarter.Renovert av ELStock.En av di " billig " renoverings systemene som er å få igjennom norske sider. Så det er derfor den mangler det feste til varmeskjoldet.

Booh! Do you have any recommendations to good replacement units (with the proper casting)?

 

[Surf Blau]

I got myself a handheld tester (HHT)! Well, a modern(ish) emulation of it at least - I’ve been on the lookout for a suitable home diagnostic kit for a while, but the ones I’ve found so far have either been prohibitively expensive or only for cars newer than 2005. I was adamant tha If I were to get a kit I had to be able to use it for all my cars, ie the 500E and the 2003 Smart Crossblade as well! Last week I finally found a used system with suitable programs and connectors, so I snapped it up!



As mentioned, one critical aspect was to be able to use it on the 500E, with the primary motivation to finally figure out what’s causing the ASR-fault. But, as the previous had never used the 38-pin cable it came with, he (and thus I) didn’t know that the cable was mapped incorrectly - at first I could not get the multiplexer to start, but after opening the connector and realising the problem, I added a separate constant power and voila!



Not all systems are up and running as of now, but I did get to check ASR, and also found a stored and current fault with the heating element of the oxygen sensor. I’ll measure the resistance of the heating element next time I’m working underneath the car, but googling these issues together hinted at a few things that could be the source of both; throttle body, grounding issues and brake light switch.

Reading my own thread again, I see that I experienced “tapping” in the accelerator pedal last year, which could also be related from what I understand.

These fault are the ones that either come back every time or can’t be deleted:



Next step (besides measuring the heating element on the oxygen sensor) is to find a cable with the proper mapping that’ll allow me to read out all of the systems. Live data is cool!





I also tried to identify the date code of my throttle body, which I think can be interpreted as “OK 0012”. Unfortunately the throttle body and the egas were two of the components I’m unable to read out with my current cable.

 

[gsxr]

Nice progress! The ETA live data (and fault codes) will show in the E-GAS screen on HHT-Win. Also see if you can connect to the EZL... certain M3 MUX's will not communicate with the LH EZL, something about the abnormally low signal voltage the EZL uses to transfer data to the MUX, even if the 38-pin cable is fully populated.

Your ETA appears original. The date code is inked below the barcode area. If it's illegible, it's probably from the early 90's.

 

[Surf Blau]

Nice progress! The ETA live data (and fault codes) will show in the E-GAS screen on HHT-Win. Also see if you can connect to the EZL... certain M3 MUX's will not communicate with the LH EZL, something about the abnormally low signal voltage the EZL uses to transfer data to the MUX, even if the 38-pin cable is fully populated.

Your ETA appears original. The date code is inked below the barcode area. If it's illegible, it's probably from the early 90's.

View attachment 235502

Aha, thanks for the info - the sticker was so mucky where the date code is supposed to be that I couldn’t see it, so I just assumed it was the combination I saw on the other side was what I was after. I’ll do some more investigating soon

I’m pretty sure I’ll be able to monitor all systems once I have a proper cable, but we’ll see how it goes

 

[Surf Blau]

Today I was finally able to put the car back together, with new tie rods, new drag link and new idler arm bushings. It was great driving the car again, but not everything went smoothly (of course)

As mentioned above, the starter on my car is the wrong one in that it does not have the casting with bolt holes to hold the heat shield that is supposed to cover the starter. This was jerryrigged af when I took it apart, and as I couldn't justify replacing the starter right now, I made a quick bracket to hold it where it is supposed to be.



It won't ever be perfect as the aftermarket starter is a bit longer than the original spec one, but after practicing some more profanity I was finally able to install all three shields somewhat correctly.



Before getting to the installation of the heat shields though, I replaced the bushings for the idler arm, which was a walk in the park in comparison. So far, so good.

After this I messed up slightly, installing the drag link the wrong way, which led to having to install the steering shock the wrong way as well. I tried to remove the drag link arm again, but don't have tools for such a job that I felt confident that would not damage the dust boots in the process. After some research I found that even though it is not correct, this setup will probably be fine as well, which was a relief. Next time I'll definitely double check everything before tightening to spec. What do you think, am I right in thinking that this should be fine?




The effect of all this work was not as I hoped though; Obviously the car needs an alignment, so it feels a bit nervous, but what I was hoping to cure was a mechanical noise when turning the wheel that I've had since I bought the car, but couldn't figure out.. Since I had no indication as to when the steering components had been renewed I figured I'd "start fresh". Looks like I threw the wrong parts at it, because the sound is still there - and I'm not sure if it's just my imagination/expectation that makes it feels this way, but it kinda feels more present than before.. I shot a quick video to share the sound with you guys - not the easiest from inside the car, but it's clearly audible - and sounds like it's coming from the passenger side..

I'm at a bit of a loss as to what might cause this, but did some research and think that it could be the strut mount(s) perhaps? I still think there's some unwanted play in the steering, which feels a bit clunky even around center, but might have been spoiled from my newer cars as well. Come to think of it, my 1966 has a similar feel to it, though I'm not comparing these cars at all beyond that

Any ideas as to what it could be?

 

[gsxr]

Hard to hear the noise up front, but my guesses are either the ball joint, strut, or strut mount. Can you have someone move the steering lock to lock with the passenger wheel in the air, while you listen at the strut area? Remove the wheel/tire for better access.

Nice work otherwise, especially the custom heat shield bracket!

 

[Surf Blau]

Hard to hear the noise up front, but my guesses are either the ball joint, strut, or strut mount. Can you have someone move the steering lock to lock with the passenger wheel in the air, while you listen at the strut area? Remove the wheel/tire for better access.

Nice work otherwise, especially the custom heat shield bracket!

Thanks, and yeah, I think you’re right, I’ll need an assistant to get further here I guess. So theoretically, if I need new control arm(s), are there any available?

 

[gsxr]

Assuming you have a late-production car with the non-replaceable ball joints... let's hope they are OK and you won't need them.

 

[Surf Blau]

Assuming you have a late-production car with the non-replaceable ball joints... let's hope they are OK and you won't need them.

Wow, that was even more deflection than expected

 

[Surf Blau]

Apparently there are multiple aftermarket suppliers of the LCAs (still), even from MB (allegedly), but those are about the four times as expensive. Are TRW and/or Febi Bilstein LCAs recommended?

 

[gsxr]

Apparently there are multiple aftermarket suppliers of the LCAs (still), even from MB (allegedly), but those are about the four times as expensive. Are TRW and/or Febi Bilstein LCAs recommended?

Nope, nope, and nope. All the aftermarket LCA's are sub-par. None are OE nor OEM/MB.

Don't worry about it unless you find your ball joints have failed, which is unlikely if the boots are intact.

 

[Surf Blau]

Nope, nope, and nope. All the aftermarket LCA's are sub-par. None are OE nor OEM/MB.

Don't worry about it unless you find your ball joints have failed, which is unlikely if the boots are intact.

No, I’ll definitely check it out properly before ordering anything, be it strut mounts or anything else. But out of curiosity; what do people do when they actually need new ball joints on these cars? I guess 129-owners have the same problem then?

 

[gsxr]

But out of curiosity; what do people do when they actually need new ball joints on these cars?

Best option is to find a set of good used ones, re-grease the joints as shown here, and replace the rubber bushings if needed.

I guess 129-owners have the same problem then?

Yes, if they have 129's with 320mm or 334mm front brakes (M119's with optional ESP, and all with M113 or M120).