I'm considering a change from the dealer-provided Mobil 1 to race-oriented Motul 300V in 5W-40 or MB-approved 5W-30. Anyone have experience with Motul oil?
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Anyone using Motul oil?
- Thread starter need2speed
- Start date
Not personally, but regardless of brand, I would stick with an xW-40 or xW-50. The original specs when the M119 was built showed xW-30 as being too thin except for winter/sub-freezing ambient temps. I really like Red Line products (but they're not cheap); some Amsoil products are also good for a bit less $$$. I think Motul is better known in Europe than in North America.
I just recently switch to the 5W-40 grade oil and went with Motul 300V Power and the smoothness of the car has noticeably improved across all RPM's and it was already quite smooth with Mobile 1 0W-40. The initial start-up did quiet down as well...nice 
At medium and higher speeds, the car does feel a bit more eager then before. I'm very happy with Motul so far and now that I have a place to walk in and buy as much as I want, Motul will be in my car from now on. Finally I have a truly synthetic oil and it's suitable for street and track. There have been a few arguments online whether using a racing oil is ok for street and although some of Motul other grades are are truly for the track, the 300V Power is perfect for street and track. I change my oil at 5k regardless what oil I use and the 300V Power has been tested to use at whichever intervals one changes their oil.
I doubt I will send my oil for a test, but from reading other Motul user's lab test results, the results for Motul 300V Power are excellent and the oil change intervals can be extended. My tuner only uses Motul for everything and all of his customers who converted to Motul for their car's and bike's have not looked back for over 10 years with no ill effects. My brake fluid and differential oil are also Motul.
Also, at idle (with the cat-back exhaust I have) the exhaust note did change just a bit to be more noticeable.
Here's a good write up on the 300V series benefits, which point out the exact results I have felt since the switch.
"APPLICATIONS
The goal of racing is to optimize the performance of a given machine for a specific race.
Hence, a single lubricant alone cannot possibly achieve top performance for every engine type in every event. MOTUL MOTORSPORT, thanks to its line-up of four different products, shall match every combination of motors and races. Suit engines of any displacement, whether of recent or past technology (Historic racing car type), multivalve, turbocharged or atmospheric, carburettors as well as fuel-injection, using leaded or unleaded gas, diesel-oil or liquefied gas, and catalytic exhausts.
For the most demanding uses of engines and lubricants :
* car racing
* sporty motoring
* long motorway journeys
* trips too short for a proper warm-up
* heavy hauls (trailers or caravans)
* city use (fuel washout during protracted idle, high running temperature for lack of engine cooling).
PERFORMANCE
Formulated upon esters and extremely efficient antifriction stocks, the 300V's are 100% SYNTHETIC and include no-or quite little (*)-viscosity boosters to achieve an extraordinary high resistance to shear.
The common characteristics along the whole 300V line are :
* a remarkable decrease of the engines internal frictions, which guarantees high performance and reliability, quite often topped with a noticeable decrease of running noises
* a top resistance to high temperature charring - an extreme resistance of the oil film
* a low volatility, with quite little evaporation at high temperatures.
MANUFACTURERS REFERENCES : HONDA MUGEN, OSELLA ALFA ROMEO, PORSCHE, JAGUAR, NISMO, VENTURI, KREMER PORSCHE, COURAGE, SONAUTO PORSCHE, and many private racing teams.
SPECIFIC TESTS
- Oil film resistance
Conventional multiple grade mineral and semi-synthetic motor oils, as 100% synthetic super-multigrade lubricants (5W40, 5W50, 10W60...) use additives to boost their viscosity. These viscosity additives tend to loose efficiency when submitted to extreme conditions, which translates into a drop of viscosity and oil pressure.
Since the 300V's of the MOTUL MOTORSPORT line benefit from the natural viscosity of synthetic ester basestocks, they need very little of such additives, or none (*).
The ASTM D 4741 official test of HT/HS* (High Temperature High Shear) viscosity measures the viscosity of lubricants at very high temperature (150C / 302F) and shear (1 000 000 s-1). This test is considered to be a good model of the fluid's state when exposed to extreme shear and temperature as found in an engine.
The higher the benchmark, the best the oil film keeps up its viscosity, hence its resistance to high stress in hydrodynamic rating. Tests prove the best results are achieved with a high viscosity grade (50 or 60) at high temperature, and without viscosity boosters.
- Resistance to high temperature coking
While racing, when the engine is pushed to the extreme, or during pit stops and refuellings, the oil temperature reaches maximal values.
Same happens to usual cars when stuck in traffic jams, hard or fast-driven for long journeys, or stopped at busy toll-gates.
Hence the capital attention to avoid the carbonization of lubricants heated to high temperatures.The lubricant residues carbonized through overheating (i.e. charring) are weighed, the best benchmark being a low weight.
The test measures the coking of engine oils at a sustained high temperature (5 days at 160C / 320F) and blasted for 48 hours against an aluminum shim heated at 290C / 554F.
Tests prove the choice of basestocks, especially synthetic ester bases, to be a major promoter of resistance to high temperature coking.
The 300V's of the MOTORSPORT line reveal virtually almost no coking during this test."
At medium and higher speeds, the car does feel a bit more eager then before. I'm very happy with Motul so far and now that I have a place to walk in and buy as much as I want, Motul will be in my car from now on. Finally I have a truly synthetic oil and it's suitable for street and track. There have been a few arguments online whether using a racing oil is ok for street and although some of Motul other grades are are truly for the track, the 300V Power is perfect for street and track. I change my oil at 5k regardless what oil I use and the 300V Power has been tested to use at whichever intervals one changes their oil. I doubt I will send my oil for a test, but from reading other Motul user's lab test results, the results for Motul 300V Power are excellent and the oil change intervals can be extended. My tuner only uses Motul for everything and all of his customers who converted to Motul for their car's and bike's have not looked back for over 10 years with no ill effects. My brake fluid and differential oil are also Motul.
Also, at idle (with the cat-back exhaust I have) the exhaust note did change just a bit to be more noticeable.
Here's a good write up on the 300V series benefits, which point out the exact results I have felt since the switch.
"APPLICATIONS
The goal of racing is to optimize the performance of a given machine for a specific race.
Hence, a single lubricant alone cannot possibly achieve top performance for every engine type in every event. MOTUL MOTORSPORT, thanks to its line-up of four different products, shall match every combination of motors and races. Suit engines of any displacement, whether of recent or past technology (Historic racing car type), multivalve, turbocharged or atmospheric, carburettors as well as fuel-injection, using leaded or unleaded gas, diesel-oil or liquefied gas, and catalytic exhausts.
For the most demanding uses of engines and lubricants :
* car racing
* sporty motoring
* long motorway journeys
* trips too short for a proper warm-up
* heavy hauls (trailers or caravans)
* city use (fuel washout during protracted idle, high running temperature for lack of engine cooling).
PERFORMANCE
Formulated upon esters and extremely efficient antifriction stocks, the 300V's are 100% SYNTHETIC and include no-or quite little (*)-viscosity boosters to achieve an extraordinary high resistance to shear.
The common characteristics along the whole 300V line are :
* a remarkable decrease of the engines internal frictions, which guarantees high performance and reliability, quite often topped with a noticeable decrease of running noises
* a top resistance to high temperature charring - an extreme resistance of the oil film
* a low volatility, with quite little evaporation at high temperatures.
MANUFACTURERS REFERENCES : HONDA MUGEN, OSELLA ALFA ROMEO, PORSCHE, JAGUAR, NISMO, VENTURI, KREMER PORSCHE, COURAGE, SONAUTO PORSCHE, and many private racing teams.
SPECIFIC TESTS
- Oil film resistance
Conventional multiple grade mineral and semi-synthetic motor oils, as 100% synthetic super-multigrade lubricants (5W40, 5W50, 10W60...) use additives to boost their viscosity. These viscosity additives tend to loose efficiency when submitted to extreme conditions, which translates into a drop of viscosity and oil pressure.
Since the 300V's of the MOTUL MOTORSPORT line benefit from the natural viscosity of synthetic ester basestocks, they need very little of such additives, or none (*).
The ASTM D 4741 official test of HT/HS* (High Temperature High Shear) viscosity measures the viscosity of lubricants at very high temperature (150C / 302F) and shear (1 000 000 s-1). This test is considered to be a good model of the fluid's state when exposed to extreme shear and temperature as found in an engine.
The higher the benchmark, the best the oil film keeps up its viscosity, hence its resistance to high stress in hydrodynamic rating. Tests prove the best results are achieved with a high viscosity grade (50 or 60) at high temperature, and without viscosity boosters.
- Resistance to high temperature coking
While racing, when the engine is pushed to the extreme, or during pit stops and refuellings, the oil temperature reaches maximal values.
Same happens to usual cars when stuck in traffic jams, hard or fast-driven for long journeys, or stopped at busy toll-gates.
Hence the capital attention to avoid the carbonization of lubricants heated to high temperatures.The lubricant residues carbonized through overheating (i.e. charring) are weighed, the best benchmark being a low weight.
The test measures the coking of engine oils at a sustained high temperature (5 days at 160C / 320F) and blasted for 48 hours against an aluminum shim heated at 290C / 554F.
Tests prove the choice of basestocks, especially synthetic ester bases, to be a major promoter of resistance to high temperature coking.
The 300V's of the MOTORSPORT line reveal virtually almost no coking during this test."
Valuable info...thanks!
gsxr said:I think Motul is better known in Europe than in North America.
Motul seems to have a greater presence in Canada, probably because of our French-Canadian connection ;-)
Oil Choice Made...
Once I realized that with cats removed I could use the full race-spec oils, my choices opened up. As I understand it, the current API standard of manufacture-approved SM oils mandated less zinc and phosphorus anti-wear agents because of their affect on catalysts. I think this change led to the suspicion that Mobil 1 had altered their formulas, but then so did everyone else. Race oils (without catalysts) retain these and also enhance the levels of Moly and ZDDP for reduced friction plus a higher proportion of Group 5 base stocks. With that in mind, I identified a short-list of 3: Amsoil Dominator 15W50, Royal Purple XPR 10W40 and Red Line 40WT 15W40.
Due to suitablility, availability and price I finally settled on the Red Line WT40 at $11.19/quart. With the oil cooler, I needed 10 bottles!!
Once I realized that with cats removed I could use the full race-spec oils, my choices opened up. As I understand it, the current API standard of manufacture-approved SM oils mandated less zinc and phosphorus anti-wear agents because of their affect on catalysts. I think this change led to the suspicion that Mobil 1 had altered their formulas, but then so did everyone else. Race oils (without catalysts) retain these and also enhance the levels of Moly and ZDDP for reduced friction plus a higher proportion of Group 5 base stocks. With that in mind, I identified a short-list of 3: Amsoil Dominator 15W50, Royal Purple XPR 10W40 and Red Line 40WT 15W40.
Due to suitablility, availability and price I finally settled on the Red Line WT40 at $11.19/quart. With the oil cooler, I needed 10 bottles!!
I came across some interesting information in this thread, which unfortunately has a rather low signal-to-noise ratio. So, I trimmed out the pertinent info and consolidated it into this text file on my website.
Anyway - it seems that Motul 300V is indeed a top-notch oil and should be an excellent choice for our 500E/M119's. The only drawback is the price, which seems to hover around $16 per liter. It appears to be pretty comparable to Red Line's non-diesel oils (i.e., 10W-40, not Red Line 5W-40 or 15W-40) with high levels of ZDDP and moly. Red Line allegedly had to remove the moly from their diesel formulas in order to meet the newer CJ-4 API rating, for emissions reasons. The Red Line 10W-40 still has politically incorrect moly levels, and I currently have this in my E500. I plan to switch all of my M119's over to the Red Line 10W-40 as their oil changes are due. You can find Red Line for about $11/qt from numerous sources. A cheaper alternative is Amsoil AMO 10W-40, or AME 15W-40... these also have high ZDDP and high TBN, but have little (if any) moly. Keep in mind that Motul 300V is not the same as Motul 8100, or other Motul oils. It's the 300V specifically that is largely ester based, with lots of ZDDP and moly.
Warning: Be careful when using full-race oils! (I'm referring to Dean's comments in post #7, above.) These "racing" oils usually lack detergents and are meant to be changed after every track day. They are NOT suitable for use over many months and thousands of miles/kilometers. Example: Mobil suggests a 500 mile change interval for their Mobil-1 Racing oils.
Anyway - it seems that Motul 300V is indeed a top-notch oil and should be an excellent choice for our 500E/M119's. The only drawback is the price, which seems to hover around $16 per liter. It appears to be pretty comparable to Red Line's non-diesel oils (i.e., 10W-40, not Red Line 5W-40 or 15W-40) with high levels of ZDDP and moly. Red Line allegedly had to remove the moly from their diesel formulas in order to meet the newer CJ-4 API rating, for emissions reasons. The Red Line 10W-40 still has politically incorrect moly levels, and I currently have this in my E500. I plan to switch all of my M119's over to the Red Line 10W-40 as their oil changes are due. You can find Red Line for about $11/qt from numerous sources. A cheaper alternative is Amsoil AMO 10W-40, or AME 15W-40... these also have high ZDDP and high TBN, but have little (if any) moly. Keep in mind that Motul 300V is not the same as Motul 8100, or other Motul oils. It's the 300V specifically that is largely ester based, with lots of ZDDP and moly.
Warning: Be careful when using full-race oils! (I'm referring to Dean's comments in post #7, above.) These "racing" oils usually lack detergents and are meant to be changed after every track day. They are NOT suitable for use over many months and thousands of miles/kilometers. Example: Mobil suggests a 500 mile change interval for their Mobil-1 Racing oils.
Imho, no price is too high for optimum protection, our cars deserve the best. The 300V is not a "true racing oil" and is fine for daily use after track events, as long as the track events are not too extreme. There was a thread on the bobistheoilguy forum, where an Audi owner tracked his car a few times and the oil analysis he received showed the oil still in excellent condition for further daily use. Another analysis (just street use, with spirited driving) showed the oil to be ok for 10K+ miles before changing.
My oil looks only a tad darker than when new, and that's after numerous 1/4 mile drag races and 10 laps at Willow Springs. I will still change the oil before the next track day.
Dave, many thanks for the summary writeup.
My oil looks only a tad darker than when new, and that's after numerous 1/4 mile drag races and 10 laps at Willow Springs. I will still change the oil before the next track day.
Dave, many thanks for the summary writeup.
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Wooops, let me clarify: I didn't mean to imply that 300V was a racing-only oil. You are correct, Steve, it is a high-end oil that is suitable for street and track use. I updated my previous post.
I was referring to products like Mobil-1 Racing (click here), where the FAQ's indicate a change interval of approximately 500 miles (yes, five hundred), depending on track conditions, etc. Most racing oils are designed for short change intervals, and no catalysts.
At any rate, if Motul 300V is in your budget, I'd say it's probably one of the best oils you can use for the M119.
I was referring to products like Mobil-1 Racing (click here), where the FAQ's indicate a change interval of approximately 500 miles (yes, five hundred), depending on track conditions, etc. Most racing oils are designed for short change intervals, and no catalysts.
At any rate, if Motul 300V is in your budget, I'd say it's probably one of the best oils you can use for the M119.
Why a 10W-40 grade?
Just personal preference. I'm not a big fan of thin oils, and I don't need them for winter as our 500E's are not parked outside in winter, and rarely driven in winter. The original MB oil specs called for an xW-40 or xW-50 when ambient temps will be above ~80°F, which is most of the year here in sunny Idaho.
The closer together the two numbers are (i.e., 10W-40 vs 0W-40) generally indicates less VII (viscosity index improvers) and less probability of the oil shearing down as the VII's break down over time. So, the 10W-40 fits my needs pretty well. I'm ok with 5W-40 and 15W-40 too, however these weights are often diesel-specific oils, and certain manufacturers tweak the additive package differently for their diesel oils, which may or may not be desirable. For the Red Line products, their diesel oils had the molybdenum content reduced significantly, while their other oils did not. Therefore, I'm going with the 10W-40 Red Line.
I think all the Motul 300V line has lots of moly, so you probably don't need to worry about that with the 300V.
Yeah, the 300V Power 5W-40 weight seems to be right for my car. I was told by Motul U.S.A. and my tuner that the 300V Power 10W-40 oil might be a tad thick and is not needed if I'm running the 5W-40 weight in SoCal, including light track use. Motul also told me that their 5W-40 is much stronger than other oil brands weights of 10W-40.
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Now that you know that Motul is excellent to use, why not try it?
Here's a thread from bobistheoilguy regarding another Audi owner using Motul's 300V Power 5w-40 oil as well as the analysis results from Blackstone labs...and that was before the double ester (wider range oil) line was available, which I run now.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=236918
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=236918
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