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Contemplating the Cabriolets

Oh my God, wasn’t it?!?! Completely revolutionized car audio from the factory in my view. Before then, it was not so much. Mercedes tried, BMW was pathetic, I shan’t mention anyone else. It got better and better after that. Acura followed closely behind. And now it’s a completely different game, and all but dead is the car audiophile. The new Burmeister systems are really nice too, as is the Audi B&O collabo. By the way, my ‘04 Allroad is the only system that came stock in a way that I’ve never felt a desire to change. Just turn it up. It’s a wagon, so the sub is “with the band” in the cabin — changes everything. My daughter’s Beetle came with an optional Fender system — sounds like a Bob Marley concert. Unreal.

One of the things I love about the W140 is the speaker arrangement in the front. Drop in a 4-way amp and some component speakers and, voila! To me, where the W140comes in between the W124 and R129 is literally the 500E. And that’s intended to be a maximum oversimplification — like the number 1.

maw

A guy from Bose car audio design once told me that they were extremely happy with the way the 140 system turned out. He said that there were actually some prolonged arguments about speaker enclosure space requirement inside the door panels, etc., and that MB finally relented and gave them the dimensions that they wanted. Another funny story he told me is that MB at the time he did not want any other manufacturer name or logo anywhere on or in the vehicle, while Bose absolutely insisted that it’s logo be inside the car somewhere. The compromise was that the Bose logo appears on the tiny upper windshield center fill speaker that is obscured by the rear view mirror, unless you intentionally look up under it. The fabulous upgrade that it represented from the previously dismal German designed offerings was so well received worldwide that Benz changed their mind and started displaying the logo prominently on the more visible speakers.

I know that a number of people scoff at Bose, quite unjustly often, IMO, (I think that Bose is the most unfairly maligned company in the history of earth) but the Bose system in the 240 Maybach is fantastic, too, and the Bose in the 220 is damn good. I’m sure we would still be using them if Harmon International hadn’t bought Becker, thereby enabling them to put the Harman-Kardon name on the Becker systems and branch into supplying auto companies...
:klink:
 
A guy from Bose car audio design once told me that they were extremely happy with the way the 140 system turned out. He said that there were actually some prolonged arguments about speaker enclosure space requirement inside the door panels, etc., and that MB finally relented and gave them the dimensions that they wanted. Another funny story he told me is that MB at the time he did not want any other manufacturer name or logo anywhere on or in the vehicle, while Bose absolutely insisted that it’s logo be inside the car somewhere. The compromise was that the Bose logo appears on the tiny upper windshield center fill speaker that is obscured by the rear view mirror, unless you intentionally look up under it. The fabulous upgrade that it represented from the previously dismal German designed offerings was so well received worldwide that Benz changed their mind and started displaying the logo prominently on the more visible speakers.

I know that a number of people scoff at Bose, quite unjustly often, IMO, (I think that Bose is the most unfairly maligned company in the history of earth) but the Bose system in the 240 Maybach is fantastic, too, and the Bose in the 220 is damn good. I’m sure we would still be using them if Harmon International hadn’t bought Becker, thereby enabling them to put the Harman-Kardon name on the Becker systems and branch into supplying auto companies...
:klink:

Yes, to all of this, even though I only now have 2nd hand knowledge. Door speaker depth is the critical dimension. Only now are the aftermarket speaker companies making thin-mount applications to fix this for OEM car companies that don't capitulate the way MB did as you recount.

The '04 Audi Allroad system, is a Bose system, who I agree are greatly misunderstood for Dr. Bose's groundbreaking work on sound displacement -- getting a MUCH larger sound from a MUCH smaller speaker. He and Carver. The Bose 901 came out in the late '60s, and bringing that technology into a much smaller soundstage, well in retrospect we can all see what that means. It's ubiquitous application does nothing to detract from its space-age sound magic. The analog would be MB's use of fluid hydraulics -- 50 years later, almost nothing can touch it for large car sport handling dynamics.

The W220 system is right behind that Allroad -- it's so close to being perfect, I haven't dared to touch it. If it breaks, I'll rethink that. And maybe it can use a larger thin mount sub up against the back seat along with an Audison Bit One. But even that seems to take as much as it gives. At least the cabin speakers seem to be of the plug and play variety with no mounting depth constraints. Still, I doubt anyone can do that better than Bose, which is back to your original point.

And finally, my E46M came stock with the upgraded HK system, which was only really good for top up driving below 4K rpm, which sort of defeated the purpose of both an M car and a convertible. Thank God for BavSound, which did the Dr. Bose thing and came up with worthwhile speakers and a sub that fit in the factory holes, specifically engineered for the car. I gave up the ski pass through the rear seat (which made no sense to me anyway in a rear wheel drive convertible M car, but whatever). And with some cabin sound deadening (and an amp, and a new head unit), now the audio actually works with the car. What a concept. But it took enough work that I'm really not interested in hacking up what MB and Bose gave me in the W220.

maw
 
This one just popped up on ebay. Pretty sure that I haven't come across is previously, nor have I seen any for sale in this color.

Wish they posted the correct VIN so I could see what color it is.
 
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The VIN is correct, or at least valid. WDBEA66E3RC048840
The MB Data Card doesn't show color, though
 
The VIN is correct, or at least valid. WDBEA66E3RC048840
The MB Data Card doesn't show color, though

Looks like it is. Huh, I thought all of them were WDB124XXXXXXXXX but I guess all the Cabs start WDBBEA for some reason.

My VIN decoder I use lists one of the codes as 740 BLACK SOFT TOP FABRIC 9001 but that is a blue top.
 
Looks like it is. Huh, I thought all of them were WDB124XXXXXXXXX but I guess all the Cabs start WDBBEA for some reason.

My VIN decoder I use lists one of the codes as 740 BLACK SOFT TOP FABRIC 9001 but that is a blue top.

I can't find another listing for a 94 showing a non-black top in order to compare the data cards. Gonna keep looking.
 
Looks like it is. Huh, I thought all of them were WDB124XXXXXXXXX but I guess all the Cabs start WDBBEA for some reason.
North American 124 chassis all have VIN's that start with WDBEA for gas models, and WDBEB for diesels. Outside of North America, they are all WDB124xxx.


My VIN decoder I use lists one of the codes as 740 BLACK SOFT TOP FABRIC 9001 but that is a blue top.
VERY strange that both the EPC and DataMB do not show the color code for either interior or exterior. However, it appears to be paint code 348 Ice Blue Metallic (aka Pearl Blue), and the stamped metal tag by the hood latch also appears to show code 348. Really nice color. I'm guessing it was special order, or some other oddity...

:detective:
 
This one just popped up on ebay. Pretty sure that I haven't come across is previously, nor have I seen any for sale in this color.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Mercedes-Benz-E-Class/312102876575?hash=item48aac7f59f:g:NtcAAOSwx9ZaxOQF&vxp=mtr

View attachment 74913

Very interesting alternative given that the owner for my 1st priority (below) seems to fallen off the grid. I've been hoping to find something under 40K. Interesting this seller isn't taking bids, just buy now or best offer.

What do u think ?

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/mercedes-benz/e320/2065246.html

View attachment 73113


Location: Old Lyme, Connecticut, 06371
VIN #: WDBEA66E0SC211577
Mileage: 30828
Transmission: Auto
Condition: Excellent
Exterior: Black
Interior: Parchment

Seller’s Description:1995 Mercedes Benz E320 Cabriolet- Black with Parchment Leather, 30,800 miles,excellent condition, non smoker, needs nothing, One of the lowest mileage E320 Cabriolet's in the country!!!
Price: $24,500 obo
 
Very interesting alternative given that the owner for my 1st priority (below) seems to fallen off the grid. I've been hoping to find something under 40K. Interesting this seller isn't taking bids, just buy now or best offer.

I'm finding that, in nearly every instance, under 40K miles translates into crack pipe pricing.

50K miles is where the prices (generally) become realistic. Typically around $15-17K

This one was an absolute steal. It lasted about one day:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1995-Merce...ash=item4679d8f2cc:g:3qYAAOSwOvhato9s&vxp=mtr
 

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Well, the detail juice applied everywhere probably cost $5k, lol. :D

Seems like a lot of surface rust on the undercarriage for a FL car. No pics of the driver seat?

:scratchchin:

It began it’s life in Wisconsin and was driven it’s first 5,100 miles in the ‘RUST BELT’. Looks like they detailed the surface rust highlights to me. Still it doesn’t appear to be rotted out.

Not my favorite color combo. I really dislike the interior color. It just looks to blasé to me.
 
It began it’s life in Wisconsin and was driven it’s first 5,100 miles in the ‘RUST BELT’. Looks like they detailed the surface rust highlights to me. Still it doesn’t appear to be rotted out.

Not my favorite color combo. I really dislike the interior color. It just looks to blasé to me.

Ah, I missed the first miles in Wisconsin. But, I figured it could have spent time at the FL coast, which could do the same thing. Definitely no visible rot (not likely any hidden either), but that's still quite a bit on the surface components. More than I'm used to seeing, anyway.

Parchment interior isn't really my favorite either, but when it's clean and mint condition, it looks pretty sweet. But it's difficult to keep clean. My wife's DD is a '94 E420 with Parchment interior. I'm sure Gerry will start with some unhinged trolling that Oyster is actually a special, limited-edition version of mushroom only available on late cabrios.

:hooked:
 

And all the wrong designations too. It’s completely snobbish, but when the seller doesn’t understand this simple details (like the nameplate change that occurred in ‘94), I’m always turned off, and begin to suspect there is nothing but a money grab going on.

Even a complete amateur would understand these sorts of things with a quick google/wiki search prior to posting the ad. 5 minutes, tops!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Yeah, only thing “missing” is the pano roof. Of course the roof mainly gets stored so maybe a buyer won’t care. On BaT, they may not even know if or when pano roofs were ever an option. If one of these is worth north of $20k today, this would be one.

maw

P.S. I think the production numbers are hurting these values. The "certificated parade" cars I think are a breed unto themselves, as are the Silver Arrows. Special Edition SL cars (those two, plus the Mille Miglia manual cars) may command premiums. But I don't know about the value curve for R129s generally. I suspect it's been dampened by the 500E's shine -- which is arguably the best thing to come out of Mercedes from '88-'98.
 
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I believe that 129s and 124 cabrios are poised for some SERIOUS appreciation in the coming years between now and 2023, and this will continue. RIGHT NOW is the best time to snap one up. The best 129s will be the late M119 models (1997-1998) and the special edition and AMG models with the M113s. Options like good colors, pano roofs, and low miles will be the kickers for these cars.

I think R230 SLs will also appreciate, but they are much farther behind the curve. NOW is the time to get a high-end R230 with low miles and hang onto it for the next 10-12 years. You will not regret the decision to do so.

So, if getting a car for investment purposes, it comes down to whether you want a car that is fully depreciated, or on the way down and near the bottom, and how long you want to hang onto it.
 
^^^ Agreed.

Every time I mention one, I'm steered toward the R230, which gives me most of what I would look for in an R129, except for the M120 engine. I'm not in the market for another M119 or M113. And with my aversion to keeping extra stuff around, the hard folding roof beats the detachable one for me, and makes pano a useless search.

I still don't quite buy the appreciation story, though, and once I toss that out, the R129 goes with it. An R230 63 AMG (M156) car ticks that box just as well for me, albeit more expensive right now.

This 500E is probably the last car I buy with "appreciation" in mind. It's not the first, because the E46M came before it, and I actually think that one will rise despite the production numbers. The BMW and Porsche bunch are much more enthusiastic collectors (rabid, even), seems to me. Anything old BMW or old Porsche and they're all over it. Luckily (and maybe because) the BMW's tend not to last that long. I also wouldn't be totally surprised to see the S55 sought after in a while, but I'm not holding my breath. Driving a 25 year old 500E makes me a lot more comfortable keeping and driving that one for the foreseeable future.

maw
 
Hagerty shows #1 R129 (M119) values at $19,500 back in 2010, $20,000 in 2012 and $26,000 currently.

When I run that data up against the two comps I posted earlier, it suggests a value for the Red BaT car of $43,500. Color might add some premium. Ownership history, too.

$0.02
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Mercedes-Benz-300-Series/302704399619

Triple black?? Why are the seats 'shroom and parts of the interior. The piping on the seats is not factory, door cards should be one color. And if the data card is right this is really funky.

View attachment 75252
Not much about that car's paint or interior is original. It was originally Spruce Green / Malachite as the datacard indicates, note the green front center radiator support tube near the horns, also the green inner fender behind the ASR unit. No stickers on the upper radiator support very likely indicates a front-end wreck and full repaint.

I guess "triple black" in this case means the body uppers (1), body lowers (2), and wheels (3). But with half the interior black, it should be triple-and-a-half black, no? With full black interior it would be the rocking-horse-poop-rare quadruple black!

:pc1:
 

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I have yet to convince myself that I like the SA edition interior. I am not a fan of the 3 valve engine.
 
I have yet to convince myself that I like the SA edition interior. I am not a fan of the 3 valve engine.

I'm a sucker for turned sheet metal. Not so much with the two tone guts, though.
 
Rare color here (Beryll / Teal), bun warmers but no ASR:

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/d/mercedes-300ce-convertible/6564161571.html


1993 Mercedes 300ce convertible - $16000 (Scottsdale, AZ)

1993 Mercedes 300ce convertible, it has 30,xxx miles and runs and drives like new. The car interior is 8/10 few small fixable things but looks perfect and all buttons and switches work. The car paint and outside are 10/10 shape tires are like new clear car history with zero accidents. Car needs nothing runs and drives perfect with clean title in hand.

$16,000

952-358-1683

Link courtesy of forum member baviking1.

:roadrunner:
 

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I don't see many early cabs. I think the way I search tends to exclude them more often than not. Or there simply aren't many of them. Either way, that's a nice find gsxr.


I've been (long distance) looking at a 124 Cab which I have not posted on here. It has the Ortho seat control, but no bun warmers. Which seems kinda odd to me.
 
Nice color combo especially the interior:D Looks like an aftermarket electrical connection behind the battery. Also the exhaust side of the engine looks to have something extra covering the manifold? Is that a sportline steering wheel?
The item behind the battery is a circuit breaker, feeding an unknown accessory... stereo amplifier perhaps. Steering wheel is standard / stock.

:strawberry:
 
Auction ended. $10,200. SOLD

Seems like a steal to me. Perhaps the interior wear scared off the money.

That was a good deal. People were being harsh. Those interior bits are fairly easily replaced. But those were some hard 87k miles on the interior. I have to think lots of short trips, entry and exit, or a lot of time sitting in traffic (more likely). There's a lot of value left in that one for $10k. But I think there's mostly resale / performance money in the market today, which produces good deals on cars like this one that don't make the resale / performance cut. The drivers have been priced out, probably since 2015. The flip side is $75k 500Es.

Nice car.

maw
 
When I saw this one, I thought I was misreading some critical fact.

1998 R129, 6,000 miles, W120, Clean Carfax, Pano roof.

Refrigerator white and No AMG Sport pkg, but still... this seems like a screaming value for a long term collector and occasional usage.

Sport package is a must on these, at least for me. Even then, they're fairly ponderous cars. The .6 will help. But the sport package starts to bring the car where it should be. And visually it's a must. Without it, the car screams "cream puff" -- which isn't bad. But it also isn't what people are looking for today. The money is after the M120 that looks and acts like an AMG (RennTech, 72 or 73), or at very least like Satish's C126 600SEC. This one looks like it's doing none of that. I'd be interested to see who shells out $30k for it. At least on the Silver Arrow cars, all the performance bits come standard.

maw
 
I haven't seen many SAs for sale. And I can't recall seeing any R129 M120s with uber-low miles being listed publicly at least not recently.

I agree that the omission of the Sport pkg hurts. Especially on a light color. But I just don't see many comps for an example in this condition. And the Pano roof claws back some of the desirability, IMO.

Wondering what the take rate was on Pano and AMG Sport on the later V12s.

One can find 40-50K mile M120s for ~$20K all day long these days. 50% premium for a minty one doesn't strike me as much of a premium.


The red Penske SL500 is up to $28K on BaT with a couple more days to go.
 
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