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Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

Another car where the peanut gallery is doing yeoman's work on discovery.

Not saying there are ill-intentions by the seller, but the car has some question marks.

 
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@ace10 I have to laugh. Any Porschephile would know that a true 55k mile 90s Pcar would look in outstanding condition and some may be 9s of 10s at that mileage still. 2 years in Europe in storage waiting for the 25 year import rule is a bit of a stretch. Was he paying storage fees and the car just sitting. I see the peanut gallery sharks are having a feeding frenzy as well. This may well be innocent mistakes on the part of the seller, especially if the paperwork shown denotes much higher mileage dating back to the early 2000s. Don't think this listing will get to the levels of the E320 wagon but definitely some questions on this one.
 
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@ace10 I have to laugh. Any Porschephile would know that a true 55k mile Pcar would look in outstanding condition and some may be 9s of 10s at that mileage still.

Hey I do not agree with this! 😎. I see plenty of crappy-condition 55K mile late model 911s and late model Porsche SUVs everywhere! In my own neighborhood! Street parked, used, banged up, etc.

That said I am splitting hairs. The 928GTS is a special car and a 55K mile example (not a true miles unknown car) would very likely look great. That all said, I am not a Porschephile - I think you have to be really enamored of the brand to be one. The only one brand I am really enthusiastic about in life is not engaged in automobile manufacturing.
 
@Jlaa the beauty of these forums is that we can all disagree. key word on the phrase here is 'true' 55k mile Pcar. If it makes you feel better I edited to read '90s Pcar' which is what I meant to say. Crappy condition late model 911s at 55k miles are not my forte. My highest mileage Pcar reads 198k on the ticker and you would never know without looking at the ODO, even after stepping inside the cabin, unless I told you beforehand.
 
@Jlaa the beauty of these forums is that we can all disagree. key word on the phrase here is 'true' 55k mile Pcar. If it makes you feel better I edited to read '90s Pcar' which is what I meant to say. Crappy condition late model 911s at 55k miles are not my forte. My highest mileage Pcar reads 198k on the ticker and you would never know without looking at the ODO, even after stepping inside the cabin, unless I told you beforehand.
HAHAHahaha, yes, I was just picking nits..... no sweat! I see a lot of "Daily Beater Late Model Porsches" around me.

Also don't you have a 993 too?
I do. I like the car very much. I don't like the brand too much though ---- or at least, the image that the brand cultivates. Or perhaps what I find distasteful are the "values" that various "clubs" try to project onto the brand... Something like that. I'm a weirdo like that.
 
HAHAHahaha, yes, I was just picking nits..... no sweat! I see a lot of "Daily Beater Late Model Porsches" around me.


I do. I like the car very much. I don't like the brand too much though ---- or at least, the image that the brand cultivates. Or perhaps what I find distasteful are the "values" that various "clubs" try to project onto the brand... Something like that. I'm a weirdo like that.
I get it. Although all the price values advertised on such clubs are a total joke. BTW my 198k mile car mentioned above is also a 993 2WD WB. I love the cars and by association love the brand. However, I understand where you are coming from.
 
E320 Wagon Listing was just withdrawn by HAT:

....​
We agree that the best thing to do here is withdraw the car for now so that the seller can verify the engine displacement and mileage. We have been in discussion with him for the last few days, and we hope to re-list the car once some of the question marks have been addressed.
.....​
BAT is truly cowering out here and as @ace10 had pointed out earlier in this thread, it is clearly always only about the $$ now - yea most businesses are sure, but some have more scruples than others.
If an individual buyer flakes out on a deal, they are banned for life, yet in this case a seller clearly misrepresented the most basic things about a car (model and mileage) and they were gross misrepresentations. I can't say if they were intentional or not and wanted to give seller benefit of the doubt. I was trying to give the seller the benefit of the doubt throughout, even with his snarky comment about the AMG stickers and VIN matching. Regardless if he was a clueless as he represented himself then it is on BAT to hold sellers to a basic standard.
Alternatively, if he knowingly did this (either mileage or model falsehoods) he should be banned from BAT, just as a buyer who flakes on a deal is.
It's clear BAT is being 10x more forgiving to sellers who regularly sell there.

I was going to post the below on the BAT thread on this car after I saw their response, but at this point, I am not sure BAT would do the right thing.
It can take BAT 3 secs to know if the seller was just clueless or if he lying throughout this and playing dumb:
- This seller has imported multiple cars from Japan and sold them on BAT - he is no novice
- BAT should request CBP-7501 form from the seller for this car. It's one of the forms you must have to import a car to pass Customs.
- It will call out make and model of the car.
- The "I switched my phone and a all docs are lost on my WhatsApp" won't fly in this case for a simple reason: CBP-7501 is a paper form (not electronic) and the importer MUST have the stamped original form in his possession to Title & Register the car in the U.S. (copies are not accepted, not is electronic form)
- The post I put up there clearly shows the official Japanese Auction & Export docs show this car was exported as an 3.2L E320 with over 128K miles
- The CBP-7501 will likely show it was the same thing on the US Customs form (otherwise it will be flagged and they can/will seize cars for misrepresentation)
- The seller has to have this paperwork to both clear US Customs and to title the car in the U.S. and it is only on paper - copies and/or electronic forms are not accepted
- Net: The seller is sitting on a doc that tells exactly what this car is and the "dog ate my homework" (aka phone issue) can't apply there

I am not going to post this on the BAT thread. It seemed to take a bunch of commenters to get BAT to even acknowledge the obvious.
If someone here feels differently, feel free to copy any all parts of this to put up there if you want - I don't mind.

Again, I want to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but that "relist" comment by BAT is a "don't ask don't tell" type of mentality by them that will cause that site to devolve into craigslist or ebay. They showing that they are willing to expose buyers to unscrupulous or clueless sellers, yet immediately bounce individual buyers if they flake (that last part is usually a good thing)
 
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@msq I vote for putting your post up on HAT
maybe I should (or pls do feel free to copy/paste any/all if you would like).
If enough people here think I should before the shelf-life on that listing gets too old today, I'll put the effort in in edit/clean-up some of the above.

Kind of a joke that they talk about relisting for a seller that is either so clueless or worst case so deceitful ...therefore exposing us a potential buyers....but would bounce one of us in a heartbeat if we backed out of a deal if we discovered something bad about it after auction closing
 
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To me, BAT corrected the description and bids kept coming in, therefore my guess would be that
the seller pulled the auction due to the fact that it was no reserve and he was screwed.....
 
To me, BAT corrected the description and bids kept coming in, therefore my guess would be that
the seller pulled the auction due to the fact that it was no reserve and he was screwed.....
Yes, maybe, the fact that bids kept coming after all this came to light led me to make my comment to the seller that maybe BAT will correct what was being sold (model and mileage) and BAT may let it continue and maybe he would have a sale.
Independent of that - it's on BAT to do its best to not have completely clueless (not knowing model or mileage????) or unscrupulous sellers.
 
I was going to post the below on the BAT thread on this car after I saw their response, but at this point, I am not sure BAT would do the right thing.
It can take BAT 3 secs to know if the seller was just clueless or if he lying throughout this and playing dumb:
- This seller has imported multiple cars from Japan and sold them on BAT - he is no novice
- BAT should request CBP-7501 form from the seller for this car. It's one of the forms you must have to import a car to pass Customs.
- It will call out make and model of the car.
- The "I switched my phone and a all docs are lost on my WhatsApp" won't fly in this case for a simple reason: CBP-7501 is a paper form (not electronic) and the importer MUST have the stamped original form in his possession to Title & Register the car in the U.S. (copies are not accepted, not is electronic form)
- The post I put up there clearly shows the official Japanese Auction & Export docs show this car was exported as an 3.2L E320 with over 128K miles
- The CBP-7501 will likely show it was the same thing on the US Customs form (otherwise it will be flagged and they can/will seize cars for misrepresentation)
- The seller has to have this paperwork to both clear US Customs and to title the car in the U.S. and it is only on paper - copies and/or electronic forms are not accepted
- Net: The seller is sitting on a doc that tells exactly what this car is and the "dog ate my homework" (aka phone issue) can't apply there
Did you miss it?

0276c29ac1f0a5e72MERCEDES-CBP-7501-PAGE-1-scaled-1.jpg
 
Yes, I totally missed it. Then to get the Title he needs that form plus another doc like Bill of Sales translated to English to get Title, plus there's also an HS-7 form that makes you fill out the exact model (not just make).

(p.s. if you look at that you'll see he only posted the detail on the VW, there are other pages to that doc)

p.p.s they did put up HS-7.....look what they put on model #
 
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Also, this says the car is a 3.6. 219ci = 3.588L

View attachment 126227
Yea, thats a State of Nevada doc, I saw that. Look at how it was exported from Japan on the Japanese export docs: E320 3.19L. Also, look how they got around putting that on import docs....instead they put E-124092 as the Mercedes Model number. In Japan E-124092 is a 3.2L E320 station wagon, then AFTER it cleared Customs they put E36T on Nevada docs.
Now more than ever I think this was deception, not being clueless.
1. Export doc clearly shows its a 3.2L (see below) (see 3.19L on export doc, along with the much higher mileage)
2. They only show on the BAT Auction site 1 page of CBP form with detail - the one with VW detail and not car being sold, why would they leave that out
3. They fill out HS-7 with E-124092 (a 3.2L E320 wagon) so they don't lie to the Feds, and clear the car from Customs
4. Once they clear customs they fill in the VIN and model for DMV and call it an E36T (never on any of the export or import docs)

This is way to well thought out

p.p.s. if the seller really wanted to give real answers, he had the valve cover off, he could have taken picture od intake cam and it would have shown "AMG" stamp....he had the valve cover off yet never came back with the pics of that.

1613515947545.png
 
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The ‘This may be a diamond in the rough’ comment by one of the peanut gallerists was classic..
I am going to try to PM that guy about the bridge over the lake I am selling near me, its beautiful (or do you think he was being facetious?)
 
How Not To Sell A Car on BaT - BHCC Edition:

Seller posts ONE comment during the entire auction, pasted below to save y'all the trouble of finding it. Is it any wonder this went RNM? I'm more surprised it bid as high as $34k. No mention of charity, btw.


Their total BaH 'likes' score of 6 was all six thumbs-ups on this single comment:

We would like to address the many questions concerning the auction that took place in Ebay during the Fall of last year. The listing of this vehicle formerly owned by world renowned basketball icon, Michael Jordan stirred up a lot of excitement and momentum from collectors and enthusiasts alike. The auction drew bids from interested parties all around the globe wanting to own a piece of history after appearing in the documentary “The Last Dance” that narrated highlights of Michael Jordan career. Unfortunately, the highest bidder was unable to secure financing that matched the final bid. For that reason, we have decided to list the car in the premier auction site of Bring a Trailer.

So, they'd LIKE to address the many questions, but they didn't... mmm-kay. C'mon, who bids $200k and then afterwards tries to get a loan?

*smh*


BONUS:

  • Additional Charges From This Dealer:
  • $86.50 Fee for Non-California Buyers
  • $121.50 Fee for International Buyers

1613692211456.png
 
A Dodge dealer offering a new, never-titled new truck on BaT


Good grief, can't they just put it on their own website with one of those offensive ADM stickers on it?
 
@Jlaa what kind of champagne will you be opening tonight?
To answer this thread's title, as this is my first experience with selling anything on BaT, I would say that it is worth auctioning a car on BaT if the stars are aligned. I was very lucky. I was lucky because of all the help and guidance I got from everyone on “how to sell your car” from @ace10, @msq, @Ntrepid, @gsxr, and of course from that curmudgeon, I mean generous host, @gerryvz, for giving us weirdos a place to chat. And of course, thanks to everyone else here from whom I have taken inspiration over the years on “how to care for your car......”...... looking at you, @kiev, @JC220, @LWB250, @RicardoD, etc...

Anyways the buyer I hope will be thrilled with the car’s condition, and now back to our regularly scheduled best-cut-of-meat-to-eat programming.
 
Without question BaH is pushing dealer cars to the front of the line.

 
Do they charger dealers more? Or just want the higher volume? Maybe both.
 
Without question BaH is pushing dealer cars to the front of the line.

Hmmmmmmmm ..... I cringed a little bit when the seller started revving the car in neutral in the parking lot.
 
Hmmmmmmmm ..... I cringed a little bit when the seller started revving the car in neutral in the parking lot.

Vrooom. Vrooom. Vroooooom.

The entire comment section has been cringey.


A five owner, plus dealer-driven, sixteen year old car has not always been well cared for. To think otherwise is pure folly. At least one or two of those owners treated the car like shit. There's no way to avoid it.
The seller isn't "going to miss the car." Dealers sell cars to make money.
And no, this 100K mile example is not "almost as clean" as @Jlaa's car that sold yesterday.
 
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Interesting comment, based on experience, today Feb 21 at at 12:26 a.m. from "nobrakes"


It goes to show what many already know....BAT is a "sellers" site for many brands (esp. Porsche), not really a buyers site, unless you get lucky (i.e. have auction end at a known bad time without a lot of lookers)

Feb 21 at 12:26 AM
nobrakes This author's likes: 8,354

@cfd I appreciate your effort to spend time crunching numbers only to prove what is obvious…

After running 30 or so auctions here I decided to try out the competition. Ran a few Porsches on P-Car Market, both RNM. Ran a Morgan on Hemmings, RNM. Ran a C4 Vette on Autohunter with disappointing results. Finally, I accepted a low reserve on a W124 E320 Cab on Cars & Bids, to my disgust they bought out the reserve, my leaving thousands on the table.

To borrow a phrase from Ulysses S Grant “I know five online auctioneers, one is Bringatrailer and the others aren’t”.


Feb 18 at 11:23 AM
CFD
@LuvBritCars … Thank you for mentioning that this car was also listed on Cars & Bids (but didn’t meet reserve). [Admin edit: $22k, RNM in Nov-2020, click here]. Anyone who has looked thru my posts knows that I previously did statistical work for auto manufactures that included pricing analysis. Now that Cars & Bids has a enough vehicles in their database I’m in the process of designing a study that will compare on an “apples to apples” basis whether BaT or Cars & Bids generates higher prices. My hunch is that BaT does better, but we’ll see in the end. So any examples where the same car was listed on both sites is a great comparison.
Feb 20 at 3:24 PM
CFD…Regarding it being on C&B, it will be interesting to see how this one does here. I was the high bidder when it was on C&B and it did not meet reserve. We could not come together on price afterwords either. It is a nice car, but has some flaws that the one that pulled the higher price here on BAT did not have (top corners, curb rash, crack in body behind the passenger window and just a little more used looking in some areas) but a nice example overall. It is already close to my high bid last time on C&B so it will likely pass my limit here on BAT…Humm…maybe I should have come up just a tad more in the “after auction negotiations” with the high bidder.
Feb 20 at 10:26 PM
@cfd I appreciate your effort to spend time crunching numbers only to prove what is obvious…
After running 30 or so auctions here I decided to try out the competition. Ran a few Porsches on P-Car Market, both RNM. Ran a Morgan on Hemmings, RNM. Ran a C4 Vette on Autohunter with disappointing results. Finally, I accepted a low reserve on a W124 E320 Cab on Cars & Bids, to my disgust they bought out the reserve, my leaving thousands on the table.
To borrow a phrase from Ulysses S Grant “I know five online auctioneers, one is Bringatrailer and the others aren’t”.
 
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Interesting comment, based on experience, today Feb 21 at at 12:26 p.m. from "nobrakes"

Feb 20 at 10:26 PM
... I accepted a low reserve on a W124 E320 Cab on Cars & Bids, to my disgust they bought out the reserve, my leaving thousands on the table.
I can't find the E320 cabrio claimed to be sold by dealer "nobrakes", who appears to only have bid at C&B, not sold. There was this cabrio sold last month by "palmskee" in Dallas TX... which on further investigation, appears to be sock puppet account for nobrakes. Then he comments from his other account on his own listing? Brilliant.

1613953241552.png
 
I can't find the E320 cabrio claimed to be sold by dealer "nobrakes", who appears to only have bid at C&B, not sold. There was this cabrio sold last month by "palmskee" in Dallas TX... which on further investigation, appears to be sock puppet account for nobrakes. Then he comments from his other account on his own listing? Brilliant.

View attachment 126607


And he's got the same sleeper account at BaH.

Goddamn scumbag dealers.
 
If CnB made up the difference on the guy's A124, then what's his problem? Don't list the car if you don't like the Reserve.
Exactly. I didn't get that either. Or he doesn't understand how reserves work. :rolleyes:


Nobrakes sounds like the actual seller of said auction. Shill account maybe?
Yeah, I was confused... but he kinda outed himself. Ooops?

:hiding:
 
Another car where the peanut gallery is doing yeoman's work on discovery.

Not saying there are ill-intentions by the seller, but the car has some question marks.

Went RNM as expected early on in the auction due to all the discrepancy within the listing. They should take a page out @Jlaa on how to sell a car on HAT.
 
Went RNM as expected early on in the auction due to all the discrepancy within the listing. They should take a page out @Jlaa on how to sell a car on HAT.
That was an entertaining read and major time suck. Again, BaH trips up. It's only going to get worse as the greed ramps up.
 
Another car where the peanut gallery is doing yeoman's work on discovery.

Not saying there are ill-intentions by the seller, but the car has some question marks.


That's too bad. I really like 928 GTSes as well. Love love love the shape.
I feel like that car did not present itself very well. Lots of various niggles scream "used car." Further, the photos I feel were poorly shot - bad lighting, awkward angles, etc.

From my limited observations, BaT seemingly super-ultra-rewards "A-game example cars" and "Seller is able and willing to 'work the crowd'". If one of these conditions are not met, then the result can be quite disappointing. If both of these conditions are not met, then I would opine - using BaT will *definitely* result in a poor experience.

This 928GTS - same color, very different condition and seller attitude - resulted in a successful sale at a very posh price. No Reserve: 38k-Mile 1994 Porsche 928 GTS 5-Speed
 
wow, lots of response, heres mine.. I Dislike it because i have had bitter selling experience here's how it went, listed a 728i ( btw whoever at BAT translates your listing info is an idiot, because they made stupid errors and 3 years later I still see similar issues with others listings ) anyways ..after answering few good but mostly stupid questions , it did get hammered at a fair price but the buyer backed out & didn't reach out to me for 3 days, I called him he said he's no longer interested because the 1984 euro 728i didn't have AC. I took this to BAT and they said huh let us inquire, a week later I get email notifying seller did in-fact walk away and heres my listing fee refunded. So All the Auction drama & 10 days later back to the base... 1985 BMW 728i 5-Speed

I am firm believer in destiny so i didn't mind the flaker walking away thats human behavior but what annoys me is BATs response as they never banned the flakers profile as they assured me in the email, that flaker is still on BAT bidding and commenting .

Btw am happy to those who found good sellers on here, btw theres more platforms arising that may have superior values& all that good stuff.
 
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When this one popped up, I quickly bookmarked it. But didn't dig into it until last night.


This poor car needs vast sums of money throw at its cosmetics. Body work and a repaint. Interior is shabby, too. Might be one of the worst widebody 993 I've seen for sale in quite a while. Yet it's been bid up to $72K with five days to go. Even the tires are dry rotted.

Looks more like 200K miles, not sub 50K.

This car is a project, but appears to be heading for market money. I simply do not get it.
 
wow, lots of response, heres mine.. I Dislike it because i have had bitter selling experience here's how it went, listed a 728i ( btw whoever at BAT translates your listing info is an idiot, because they made stupid errors and 3 years later I still see similar issues with others listings ) anyways ..after answering few good but mostly stupid questions , it did get hammered at a fair price but the buyer backed out & didn't reach out to me for 3 days, I called him he said he's no longer interested because the 1984 euro 728i didn't have AC. I took this to BAT and they said huh let us inquire, a week later I get email notifying seller did in-fact walk away and heres my listing fee refunded. So All the Auction drama & 10 days later back to the base... 1985 BMW 728i 5-Speed

I am firm believer in destiny so i didn't mind the flaker walking away thats human behavior but what annoys me is BATs response as they never banned the flakers profile as they assured me in the email, that flaker is still on BAT bidding and commenting .

Btw am happy to those who found good sellers on here, btw theres more platforms arising that may have superior values& all that good stuff.
Do realize that BaT got their pound of flesh off your auction, so they can walk away from it fulfilled. Therefore, there's no motivation for them to lean on the flakey buyer. Even after refunding your listing fee BaT is still ahead of the curve when the dust settles.

Dan
 

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