W214

[Draginev]

Oh no.....oh no no no no. Source: Here

W214 is in development and it's not hopeful for my eyes. Look at the window lines at the side, very curvy at the end. Why mercedes?! Why!!!! You are suppose to resemble the W124. But instead it looks like the new S-class W223 and awful CLA design. Where is the boxy, masculine and gracious design?


Another source video that was just uploaded recently in: NÜRBURGRING

 

[gsxr]

Crazy paint job on that new Camry.

 

[Draginev]

Crazy paint job on that new Camry.

If Toyota Camry looks better than Mercedes, something is really wrong with the Mercedes design department.

Source: Toyota Camry

 

[TimL]

If Toyota Camry looks better than Mercedes, something is really wrong with the Mercedes design department.

While I agree that the MB design is hit and miss these days, at least they haven't gone into total meltdown like their friends from Munich. I wouldn't want to be caught dead in one of these contraptions:

 

[gsxr]

While I agree that the MB design is hit and miss these days, at least they haven't gone into total meltdown like their friends from Munich. I wouldn't want to be caught dead in one of these contraptions:
View attachment 156892

Ewwww. What did I just look at?

 

[Draginev]

While I agree that the MB design is hit and miss these days, at least they haven't gone into total meltdown like their friends from Munich. I wouldn't want to be caught dead in one of these contraptions:
View attachment 156892

My eyes.....my eyes.......what have you done to me?

I don't understand anymore. What is happening in German? Why can't they revive this awesome 7-series E38 into this modern one and people will 100 % buy. This guy Sketchmonkey source : BMW E38 did really good job of making the modern BMW 7-series E38.

 

[Draginev]

Update of the W214, with less camopaint. Video source: W214 Walkoart

 

[195910]

M-B finally decided not to do totally new designs for the new generations of their cars .Problem is they decided to do that on the Ugliest designs they made.

Its a good idea if people liked the outgoing generation (e.g a W212). The best example at this is Porsche, another example that comes into mine was how Ford kept updating the Crown victoria from 1992 to 2012.

 

[036]

It is still lees ugly then some korean cars i meet on our roads.... but all i see here above is also very ugly......
PS I feel Hamster hating Nissan Juke.

 

[Draginev]

M-B finally decided not to do totally new designs for the new generations of their cars .Problem is they decided to do that on the Ugliest designs they made.

Its a good idea if people liked the outgoing generation (e.g a W212). The best example at this is Porsche, another example that comes into mine was how Ford kept updating the Crown victoria from 1992 to 2012.

I agree, I wouldn't mind if they chose W212 and go from there with minimal changes.

 

[emerydc8]

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Last place for Mercedes.

 

[Draginev]

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Last place for Mercedes.

Interesting, but how come BMW and Audi score higher than Mercedes?

 

[gerryvz]

All I can say is that my wife’s 2017 Lexis IS350 F-Sport AWD — purchased new December 2016. One single problem outside of regular scheduled maintenance and consumables (brake pads, tires, wiper blades): a front sway bar mount needed replacement due to a creak.

One repair — 74,500 miles — six years. One repair.

 

[emerydc8]

Japan has definitely figured out how to design and manufacture cars that don't break much. Our W124s made the Lexus LS 400 look like a knock-off. We had a neighbor who was so furious about the dealer gouging him on his E320 repairs that he picked up the car and drove it right to Lexus. He traded it in for an LS 400. I remember looking at the car when he brought it home. The Lexus chassis lacked the timelessness and classic look of the W124. But with the newer Mercedes designs, there's not much of a reason to buy a Mercedes over a Lexus. They don't even look like German cars anymore. And ending up last place in a reliability study doesn't help. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Bogeyman]

My wife's '07 E320 Bleutec has had 2 repairs in the 15 years and 70K miles we've had it. It's still on the original battery.
Any poll that has BMW in the top3 isn't serious.

 

[195910]

6 years with a +780hp 2014 E63. Other than the leaking cam sensors its been a solid car. I do expect some parts to have a shorter than expected life span due to the significantly higher power and torque.

I have seen much longer lists of failures and repairs on simpler M-Bs, because some dealers milk the factory warranty. Years ago I saw the report of a US import 2007 S500 which had 2 alternators, an AC compressor, starter, panoramic roof all replaced under warranty at under 50kmi. Impossible for this to be a factory defect or quality issue.

 

[sheward]

Speaking of Mercedes new models, I saw a Maybach GLE600 (or GLA) SUV yesterday. I didn't know they made such a vehicle. It had 2 tone paint like a W124 which looked nice, and I assume a V12. It was dazzling but style wise it falls short of many other SUVs, to my eyes.

 

[maw1124]

… because some dealers milk the factory warranty...

I almost want to say all dealers milk the factory warranty and any other warranty they can find, but I won’t because hyperbole isn’t really my style not because it isn’t true. The cars I’ve seen (hell, and own) where dealers have taken full advantage any available warranty are sometimes jaw dropping.

maw

 

[gerryvz]

Any poll that has BMW in the top3 isn't serious.

I would have to agree with this. Also same for Audi and VW. You could not pay me, ever, to own a VW or an Audi. And I say this as someone who cut their teeth on VWs decades ago.

 

[195910]

I almost want to say all dealers milk the factory warranty and any other warranty they can find, but I won’t because hyperbole isn’t really my style not because it isn’t true. The cars I’ve seen (hell, and own) where dealers have taken full advantage any available warranty are sometimes jaw dropping.

maw

Don't get me wrong, although there is "loyality" to the star and what it represents, the cars both past and present have their flaws which in many cases the company turned a blind eye to. Not recognizing manufacturing defects is worst that the defect itself, and I had to deal with these expensive issues on several cars out of warranty.

I consider these "reliability polls/reports" a form of sponsored advertisement that shouldn't be taken seriously. I remembers in the late 1990s when the CTS was "the most reliable luxury car".. what ever happened to those?

 

[maw1124]

Same, I pay zero attention to these things. Each manufacturer produces some good and some bad cars, so it's more about which car than which manufacturer. I've owned Hondas (and Acura), Nissan and all 3 major Germans, and the cars I've owned have all been reliable on any scale.

For me, before forced induction, the reasons to own Germans were "torque" and "luxury". Now that everything is some turbo charged hybrid electric formulation brought over from Formula 1, the reason why not Honda / Toyota / Nissan is down to basically "luxury."

The way manufacturing tolerances have improved with computers over the spectrum of everything from iPhones to Automobiles means that unless it's designed to fail so you have to buy a new one, they're all going to last too long under the care this group affords their cars. Dealers can't wait to sell lease returns for a second bite at the profit apple. Simultaneously, the reasons to keep any of them that long are more scarce as the days pass.

I can't remember my wife having a repair on ANY car in the last decade, because they're all leases with dealer service and she's a fairly light user. Which is why the luxury lease return used car is the best deal to be had -- little old ladies (and men) tooling the cars back and forth to the grocery store for 3 years and under 45k miles. Her current E450 4Matic is likely my next car.

maw

EDIT, my Audi Allroad 4.2 was an Audi exec lease return with 40k on the clock, judging from the pet fibers in the car and lipstick over both front occupancy mirrors, I guessed a woman exec with a short haired dog… the car went back to the dealer for everything, said the VMI… and now, 15 years and 160k miles later, the car has been the best car money I ever spent. That would be the E5E with its value multiplicity, but I’ll probably never get 160k miles of use out of it. Looking to repeat that success with my wife’s 4Matic, which basically gets driven nowhere.

 

[Draginev]

I usually have a must list before I love a car:

• Reliability
• Timeless design
• Appreciation of Engineering
• Power
• Practical
• Doesn't draw a lot of attention ( wolf in sheeps clothing )

And the W124 500E checks them all above....now it's very rare to find such car. I perhaps found W212 E63s as second maybe?

 

[Draginev]

Same, I pay zero attention to these things. Each manufacturer produces some good and some bad cars, so it's more about which car than which manufacturer. I've owned Hondas (and Acura), Nissan and all 3 major Germans, and the cars I've owned have all been reliable on any scale.

For me, before forced induction, the reasons to own Germans were "torque" and "luxury". Now that everything is some turbo charged hybrid electric formulation brought over from Formula 1, the reason why not Honda / Toyota / Nissan is down to basically "luxury."

The way manufacturing tolerances have improved with computers over the spectrum of everything from iPhones to Automobiles means that unless it's designed to fail so you have to buy a new one, they're all going to last too long under the care this group affords their cars. Dealers can't wait to sell lease returns for a second bite at the profit apple.

I can't remember my wife having a repair on ANY car in the last decade, because they're all leases with dealer service and she's a fairly light user. Which is why the luxury lease return used car is the best deal to be had -- little old ladies (and men) tooling the cars back and forth to the grocery store for 3 years and under 45k miles. Her current E450 4Matic is likely my next car.

maw

That's planned obsolescence you are refering to

 

[maw1124]

I usually have a must list before I love a car:

• Reliability
• Timeless design
• Appreciation of Engineering
• Power
• Practical
• Doesn't draw a lot of attention ( wolf in sheeps clothing )

And the W124 500E checks them all above....now it's very rare to find such car. I perhaps found W212 E63s as second maybe?

You're just describing the business case for Mercedes AMG. Take the sheep's clothing (any MB pretty much) and insert the wolf under the sheet metal -- S AMG, E AMG, C AMG, SL AMG, whatever. All of them won't have timeless design, but I think all of the Bruno Sacco AMG cars (minus the bubble lights -- I still can't figure that one out) would be candidates.

The W220 AMG is the sleeper of all sleepers in that bunch for me, followed closely by the E5E. If the E5E were doing sub 4.5s 0-60 and sub 11s quarter miles, stock, no one would ever sell them.

maw

 

[Draginev]

You're just describing the business case for Mercedes AMG. Take the sheep's clothing (any MB pretty much) and insert the wolf under the sheet metal -- S AMG, E AMG, C AMG, SL AMG, whatever. All of them won't have timeless design, but I think all of the Bruno Sacco AMG cars (minus the bubble lights -- I still can't figure that one out) would be candidates.

The W220 AMG is the sleeper of all sleepers in that bunch for me, followed closely by the E5E. If the E5E were doing sub 4.5s 0-60 and sub 11s quarter miles, stock, no one would ever sell them.

maw

You are also right, every car can be wolf in sheep's clothing. But for me W220 doesn't hit right on the spot despite the sleeper part and I'm not trying to offend you whatsoever. I'm having issue with the shapes of headlight and tail light and the door is very massive in height that takes over the roof on the top side that caused disproportionately. I respect your taste, and everyone has their own liking

 

[Draginev]

I found these rare photos of pre-renders from here W214 Design which almost looks identical to the spy photos. Someone has X-ray vision into the Camo paint

 

[maw1124]

Looks like my wife’s E450 4Matic, which is to say, “virtually no change.”

maw

 

[gerryvz]

I usually have a must list before I love a car:

• Reliability
• Timeless design
• Appreciation of Engineering
• Power
• Practical
• Doesn't draw a lot of attention ( wolf in sheeps clothing )

And the W124 500E checks them all above....now it's very rare to find such car. I perhaps found W212 E63s as second maybe?

Pretty much why I've kept -- and continue to drive -- my E500 and 560SEC for the past 19 and 20 years, respectively.

I would venture to say that there are very few on this forum who daily drive cars that are this old. Most everyone treats their cars as weekend cars and drives something modern on a daily basis or has a @Jlaa-style "city-beater" Priiii. My only other car I own is a 1995 G-wagen. I have no other options at this point. I still wait for MB to produce the G-wagen in Austria due to their supply-chain issues.

Exceptions are for the rare occasions (dog hauling duty, going out to dinner, etc.) when I drive my wife's 2004 4Runner (220K miles; only a radiator replacement and a battery since I've known her) and 2017 Lexus.

 

[gerryvz]

I found these rare photos of pre-renders from here W214 Design which almost looks identical to the spy photos. Someone has X-ray vision into the Camo paint

This is an utterly ridiculous looking car (the W214). MB design has fallen far .... very far.

As horrible looking as they are, I actually believe that Japanese cars have taken the design lead from MB and BMW. This 214 is about as generic looking as a car can get nowadays.

The garish "in your face" twin-kidney grills on today's BMWs, as a design feature, make the so-called old "Bangle Butt" look like a nice quaint design feature.

 

[Draginev]

Pretty much why I've kept -- and continue to drive -- my E500 and 560SEC for the past 19 and 20 years, respectively.

I would venture to say that there are very few on this forum who daily drive cars that are this old. Most everyone treats their cars as weekend cars and drives something modern on a daily basis or has a @Jlaa-style "city-beater" Priiii. My only other car I own is a 1995 G-wagen. I have no other options at this point. I still wait for MB to produce the G-wagen in Austria due to their supply-chain issues.

Exceptions are for the rare occasions (dog hauling duty, going out to dinner, etc.) when I drive my wife's 2004 4Runner (220K miles; only a radiator replacement and a battery since I've known her) and 2017 Lexus.

It's rare to find such people as you guys that really understand the value and specialty of the W124 and other old Benzes. And meanwhile MB is cutting off the production of parts is making me furious. There is something hidden agenda behind this.

 

[gsxr]

And meanwhile MB is cutting off the production of parts is making me furious. There is something hidden agenda behind this.

Yeah - the ever-increasing list of NLA parts is simultaneously depressing and infuriating. It's like they are trying to speed up forcing everyone to drive EV's by eliminating support for the carbon-spewing fossil burners.

 

[gerryvz]

I just tried to order this morning a pair of the right and left hand ABS sensors for the front wheels of my 560SEC. They are listed around $225 each (discounted price). Both sides are on national back-order -- no stock in the US or in Germany. Likely NLA or almost there.

I was able on the same order to get the remaining parts for my 560SEC for the front suspension - the brake support rod bushings. At $135 each, discounted. This completes everything I need for the full front suspension refresh I will be doing this winter (in addition to the rear subframe/suspension replacement). I also noticed that both outer tie-rid joints' rubber bushings are cracked (recently) and in need of replacement. Fortunately I have the tie rods in my parts stock, along with a drag link and steering shock and also steering bushing kit.

 

[Draginev]

Yeah - the ever-increasing list of NLA parts is simultaneously depressing and infuriating. It's like they are trying to speed up forcing everyone to drive EV's by eliminating support for the carbon-spewing fossil burners.

Well, we are suppose to blame the corporations for Carbon emissions and drying out the seas causes the state of equilibrium due to " climate crisis". Instead of targeting the consumers, they should begin by targeting themselves. Government is to blame this mess. There is zero reports for carbon emission for all wars and nuclear weapons that has been used but many reports for peoples carbon emission which is a small fraction in comparison.

Nevertheless, there are solutions regarding parts, either by 3D scan all the parts or manually modelling the parts that is NLA and begin to mass produce these parts. It's very costly, time consuming and requires investment for the long run, but it's rewarding. If push come to shove regarding EV, they better see me in W124 E500E since E can be stand for Electric aswell

 

[gerryvz]

I believe that the on-demand 3-D parts business for NLA parts (for all kinds of vehicles) will be a very very lucrative business in the future. In my opinion in many cases the technology still has a ways to go, but for many parts it can be done now, and done well. I think there is going to be a huge movement to keep older machines and vehicles on the road as things get more complex and prohibitive to diagnose and repair, and more and more people will keep older machines around (or refurbish them) to keep them running.

It is very clear to me that without the current "warranty schema" that manufacturers and dealers have going, that about 80% of people out there would NOT be able to come anywhere near being able to afford to keep their cars on the road. It would cost too much without the aid of warranty programs, and this leads to essentially throw-away vehicles whose value drops off prohibitively after they come off warranty.

Think of manufacturer warranty programs more or less as "Medicare" for new cars. Subsidized maintenance that would cost prohibitive amounts of money if not in place, which would make vehicle ownership near impossible.

Same as with health costs - for many people if Medicare was not available (perhaps with relatively inexpensive supplemental insurance), it would be nearly impossible for people to pay for anything but the most basic health care costs such as preventative care, checkups, and so forth.

Note that this is ONLY an observation and comparison with car dealer new-car warranties, NOT a statement of support for single-payer / nationalized medicine.

 

[Draginev]

I believe that the on-demand 3-D parts business for NLA parts (for all kinds of vehicles) will be a very very lucrative business in the future. In my opinion in many cases the technology still has a ways to go, but for many parts it can be done now, and done well.

I agree, and one can also try to re-engineer those parts that includes valves etc requires someone who has knowledge in this field.

For example, Stern garage has done some 3D-scanning of the M119 engine and the W124 chassis in this video 3D-scan that's where Stern garage want to model the supercharger in 3D software to minimize error.

The process is by spraying some substances over the parts, then u use this 3D-scanner laser.

 

[Draginev]

I think there is going to be a huge movement to keep older machines and vehicles on the road as things get more complex and prohibitive to diagnose and repair, and more and more people will keep older machines around (or refurbish them) to keep them running.

It is very clear to me that without the current "warranty schema" that manufacturers and dealers have going, that about 80% of people out there would NOT be able to come anywhere near being able to afford to keep their cars on the road. It would cost too much without the aid of warranty programs, and this leads to essentially throw-away vehicles whose value drops off prohibitively after they come off warranty.

Think of manufacturer warranty programs more or less as "Medicare" for new cars. Subsidized maintenance that would cost prohibitive amounts of money if not in place, which would make vehicle ownership near impossible.

These are people who want to live by being independent and having ownership of all the stuff one possesses, like a real estates, vehicles etc.
Government or corporation is using this Schema to the point, if I could narrow it down and simple is by: You will own nothing and you will be happy. This is very scary if we compare to 1950 and today. This movement is not going end well, because that will push to revolution if people are not happy in this state. There is a problem, reaction and solution play in this world.

 

[gerryvz]

These are people who want to live by being independent and having ownership of all the stuff one possesses, like a real estates, vehicles etc.
Government or corporation is using this Schema to the point, if I could narrow it down and simple is by: You will own nothing and you will be happy. This is very scary if we compare to 1950 and today. This movement is not going end well, because that will push to revolution if people are not happy in this state. There is a problem, reaction and solution play in this world.

I agree -- but many people are very very happy to have someone else (i.e. the government) take care of their every need and whim, cradle to grave. Because this allows them not to have to think about anything or really do anything.

It is what has been taught over the past 30 years, and here in the US it increasingly is coming to pass. You rent or lease everything you need to live your life, you have other people or companies perform a service for you, but you own really nothing yourself. If it breaks, you throw it away and the "service" replaces it for you for free. And you know how to do nothing yourself. And you have nothing of any value.

I don't know how long it will take, but it won't end well. We are in serious danger of losing self-sufficiency, and autonomy.

 

[maw1124]

You are also right, every car can be wolf in sheep's clothing. But for me W220 doesn't hit right on the spot despite the sleeper part and I'm not trying to offend you whatsoever. I'm having issue with the shapes of headlight and tail light and the door is very massive in height that takes over the roof on the top side that caused disproportionately. I respect your taste, and everyone has their own liking

Back on topic here... I've heard every complaint about the W220 since before I bought mine (although "headlights" is a first, but OK, to your point of everyone having an opinion)... and my only thought was and continues to be "from behind the wheel of the AMG version you absolutely won't care"... unless you're just looking for a smaller car (and I have smaller cars).

Here is where it departs from newer MB offerings like the W214 that started this thread... it's behind the wheel that they are most offensive... so many gadgets and gizmos getting in the way of the driving experience, it overshadows what I sense is probably fantastic engineering. When I'm looking at the road, working the paddles of the E450 in Sport+ mode with the stereo going, it's "yeah I'll take one of these ... thanks." But then I look down at the dizzying array of information on the steering wheel and dash and think "where's the 'turn it all off' button?" and imagine the nightmare when that dash inevitably stops working. And yes, inevitable is what it is.

Maybe with time behind the wheel I'll get it dialed in to where I can really have it set to my liking with my key as soon as I get in the car. I actually think it's designed to do that specifically. But for now it's her car, and [if and] when it becomes my car, she won't recognize it.

But she's not worried about scarce parts either.

maw

 

[Draginev]

Back on topic here... I've heard every complaint about the W220 since before I bought mine (although "headlights" is a first, but OK, to your point of everyone having an opinion)... and my only thought was and continues to be "from behind the wheel of the AMG version you absolutely won't care... unless you're just looking for a smaller car (and I have smaller cars).

Here is where it departs from newer MB offerings like the W214 that started this thread... it's behind the wheel that they are most offensive... so many gadgets and gizmos getting in the way of the driving experience, it overshadows what I sense is probably fantastic engineering. When I'm looking at the road, working the paddles of the E450 in Sport+ mode with the stereo going, it's "yeah I'll take one of these ... thanks." But then I look down at the dizzying array of information on the steering wheel and dash and think "where's the 'turn it all off' button?" and imagine the nightmare when that dash inevitably stops working. And yes, inevitable is what it is.

Maybe with time behind the wheel I'll get it dialed in to where I can really have it set to my liking with my key as soon as I get in the car. I actually think it's designed to do that specifically. But for now it's her car, and [if and] when it becomes my car, she won't recognize it.

But she's not worried about scarce parts either.

maw

In aspect of driving experience I couldn't agree more and many of us is not a big fan of screens in the interior either. Anything that disrupt the driving experience or distractions from the road is making the car as a smartphone experience or an autonomous vehicle where u don't have any control over the machine. What kills pedestrian is the reaction time, one look at the screen you will hear a dunk slam.

I often tend to see a car as a whole package, appearance, details, engineering, sounds and so on, play a big factor what makes a car unique as a whole and it's an expression of sort. If you have all that, this is just an added bonus for the driving the machine. W124 for an example nailed this in every way.

When I started this thread is because a part of me I hoped that MB would bring back the W124 into new modern design with Bruno Sacco finger print that carries same DNA. And that they would remove this ridiculous screens and all that gadgets and put back buttons like Bentley or Rolls Royce still do. But they tend to disappoint as usual.

 

[Draginev]

Repost: New update of W214 based on computer renders. Mercedes E-class W214 will get more screens than the predecessor MB will score big time the worst design ever.

 

[Draginev]

Anyone knows what kind of Ipad version this is? And the vents is going to suffocate people.

 

[036]

 

[gerryvz]

I just tried to order this morning a pair of the right and left hand ABS sensors for the front wheels of my 560SEC. They are listed around $225 each (discounted price). Both sides are on national back-order -- no stock in the US or in Germany. Likely NLA or almost there.

I was informed by MB Annapolis after placing the order, that the two ABS sensors are slated to be available again in late December and late January (each side) in Germany, and should be able to be shipped to the US once MB's German parts distribution warehouses receive them. A glint of light at the end of this particular parts tunnel.

I am not holding my breath on this, and have actually ordered a new set of ABS sensors from a source overseas (at a not exhorbitant price, actually) but it may take quite some time for the overseas units to arrive here.

Only one of the rubber parts is NLA for the W126 front suspension -- the rubber bushings that surround the forward end of the brake support rod where it bolts to the front lower control arm. These are now only made by Meyle and URO Parts, sadly.

 

[Draginev]

New spy video of the W214.

I don't know guys but this is kinda depressing how Mercedes is aiming at. I guess I'm giving up

 

[maw1124]

Mercedes’ Next W214 E Class Starts to Show its Face - MBWorld

Mercedes’s next-W214 E-Class is coming into focus as prototype mules of the new car start to drop their camouflage

mbworld.org

 

[Draginev]

 

[gerryvz]

I love the fake exhaust tips embedded into the back bumper. Ugh.

Reminds me of the "quad exhaust" of the C4 Corvette....of which only TWO of the four pipes actually exhausted gases (which was apparent through discoloration of the functional exhaust tips some time after use).

Wonder why MBs lose so much value, so quickly? We got 58% of the original price for a 2017 Lexus we bought in late 2016 -- 6.5 years old. I wonder what the residual on an E-class would be after 6.5 years......

 

[gsxr]

Looks like someone put a Star in the grille of a Camry.

I kinda like the tail light stars though. The fake rear bumper exhaust "ports" are pathetic.

 

[Kridre]

Needs at least 10 more monitors, what they are even thinking? That we have only three hands and four eyes to have so little to look at?

Also the famous fake exhaust tips

I really don't understand modern lease machines.

 

[sheward]

Camry.