hi everyone, what would you recommend for 1995 E320 Wagon, H&R or eibach lowering springs
any other options are welcome
thank you.
any other options are welcome
thank you.
-
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H&R vs Eibach lowering springs
- Thread starter T0Pnotch55
- Start date
Pretty sure I've posted this before, but:
H&R (and Eibach, and any other aftermarket spring mfr) have a "one size fits most, sort of" fitment. his results in your Eibach/H&R springs being a guessing game as to what the ride height will be. If you buy them, make SURE they are specified for the wagon AND with SLS. The rear springs are completely different without SLS and for the lighter A/C/W124 chassis.
The factory Sportline springs vary based on engine and optional equipment, which is why there are a dozen different Sportline spring part numbers vs H&R's handful. The Sportline springs are specific to the exact combination of chassis, engine, and optional equipment. There are charts in the EPC (screenshots attached) which specify the spring pad to be used depending on the optional equipment and color code of the spring (red vs blue). T
The typical USA-spec .092 will end up around 70-75 "points" depending on options, which means using the tallest / #30 front spring (for example), with varying pad thickness depending on the color code. See attached screenshot. Rear spring will be mid-70's points, and #28 spring with varying pads. Good news is the #30 front spring is still available new (ignore the Backordered / Currently Unavailable BS shown on RevParts, this just means it has to come out of Germany). Bad news is the rear #28 spring may have gone NLA recently and will be more difficult to locate. Worse news, almost all Sportline rear springs are NLA now, and only a handful of other rear springs are available from MB. But, since we have the specs for these springs, they could be reproduced (same as the E60 springs).
If you use aftermarket springs, you'll end up with trial and error to get the ride height where you want it. As I've stated elsewhere, I don't recommend going much lower than 14.0" from wheel center to fender lip, on a standard 124 (non-E500E), for a street-driven car. The 036 measurements are slightly different due to the fender shape. On any normal-fender 124, I try to set ride height at 14.00-14.25" front & rear, with a full tank of fuel, and new front struts.
The front ride height will gradually drop over 3-5 years as new struts slowly lose pressure. Better to set the front higher initially and let it settle down, vs set it low and end up with it too low a few years later. Also, thick spring pads crush over time. I prefer a longer/taller spring with a thin pad, vs a shorter spring with thick pad, as the thin pad will remain the same. The thick pad will gradually let the ride height drop - not a lot, but a new vs used 4-pt front pad could translate into a 0.25" difference at the wheel-to-fender measurement.
H&R (and Eibach, and any other aftermarket spring mfr) have a "one size fits most, sort of" fitment. his results in your Eibach/H&R springs being a guessing game as to what the ride height will be. If you buy them, make SURE they are specified for the wagon AND with SLS. The rear springs are completely different without SLS and for the lighter A/C/W124 chassis.
The factory Sportline springs vary based on engine and optional equipment, which is why there are a dozen different Sportline spring part numbers vs H&R's handful. The Sportline springs are specific to the exact combination of chassis, engine, and optional equipment. There are charts in the EPC (screenshots attached) which specify the spring pad to be used depending on the optional equipment and color code of the spring (red vs blue). T
The typical USA-spec .092 will end up around 70-75 "points" depending on options, which means using the tallest / #30 front spring (for example), with varying pad thickness depending on the color code. See attached screenshot. Rear spring will be mid-70's points, and #28 spring with varying pads. Good news is the #30 front spring is still available new (ignore the Backordered / Currently Unavailable BS shown on RevParts, this just means it has to come out of Germany). Bad news is the rear #28 spring may have gone NLA recently and will be more difficult to locate. Worse news, almost all Sportline rear springs are NLA now, and only a handful of other rear springs are available from MB. But, since we have the specs for these springs, they could be reproduced (same as the E60 springs).
If you use aftermarket springs, you'll end up with trial and error to get the ride height where you want it. As I've stated elsewhere, I don't recommend going much lower than 14.0" from wheel center to fender lip, on a standard 124 (non-E500E), for a street-driven car. The 036 measurements are slightly different due to the fender shape. On any normal-fender 124, I try to set ride height at 14.00-14.25" front & rear, with a full tank of fuel, and new front struts.
The front ride height will gradually drop over 3-5 years as new struts slowly lose pressure. Better to set the front higher initially and let it settle down, vs set it low and end up with it too low a few years later. Also, thick spring pads crush over time. I prefer a longer/taller spring with a thin pad, vs a shorter spring with thick pad, as the thin pad will remain the same. The thick pad will gradually let the ride height drop - not a lot, but a new vs used 4-pt front pad could translate into a 0.25" difference at the wheel-to-fender measurement.
Last edited:
Pretty sure I've posted this before, but:
H&R (and Eibach, and any other aftermarket spring mfr) have a "one size fits most, sort of" fitment. his results in your Eibach/H&R springs being a guessing game as to what the ride height will be. If you buy them, make SURE they are specified for the wagon AND with SLS. The rear springs are completely different without SLS and for the lighter A/C/W124 chassis.
The factory Sportline springs vary based on engine and optional equipment, which is why there are a dozen different Sportline spring part numbers vs H&R's handful. The Sportline springs are specific to the exact combination of chassis, engine, and optional equipment. There are charts in the EPC (screenshots attached) which specify the spring pad to be used depending on the optional equipment and color code of the spring (red vs blue). T
The typical USA-spec .092 will end up around 70-75 "points" depending on options, which means using the tallest / #30 front spring (for example), with varying pad thickness depending on the color code. See attached screenshot. Rear spring will be mid-70's points, and #28 spring with varying pads. Good news is the #30 front spring is still available new (ignore the Backordered / Currently Unavailable BS shown on RevParts, this just means it has to come out of Germany). Bad news is the rear #28 spring may have gone NLA recently and will be more difficult to locate. Worse news, almost all Sportline rear springs are NLA now, and only a handful of other rear springs are available from MB. But, since we have the specs for these springs, they could be reproduced (same as the E60 springs).
If you use aftermarket springs, you'll end up with trial and error to get the ride height where you want it. As I've stated elsewhere, I don't recommend going much lower than 14.0" from wheel center to fender lip, on a standard 124 (non-E500E), for a street-driven car. The 036 measurements are slightly different due to the fender shape. On any normal-fender 124, I try to set ride height at 14.00-14.25" front & rear, with a full tank of fuel, and new front struts. The front ride height will gradually drop over 3-5 years as new struts slowly lose pressure. Better to set the front higher and let it settle down, vs set it low and end up with it too low a few years later.
View attachment 233641 View attachment 233642
hi Dave, what about E320 sportline springs, are those still available?
how do i find the chassis code to see which springs will work for me, this chart is a bit confusing for mePretty sure I've posted this before, but:
H&R (and Eibach, and any other aftermarket spring mfr) have a "one size fits most, sort of" fitment. his results in your Eibach/H&R springs being a guessing game as to what the ride height will be. If you buy them, make SURE they are specified for the wagon AND with SLS. The rear springs are completely different without SLS and for the lighter A/C/W124 chassis.
The factory Sportline springs vary based on engine and optional equipment, which is why there are a dozen different Sportline spring part numbers vs H&R's handful. The Sportline springs are specific to the exact combination of chassis, engine, and optional equipment. There are charts in the EPC (screenshots attached) which specify the spring pad to be used depending on the optional equipment and color code of the spring (red vs blue). T
The typical USA-spec .092 will end up around 70-75 "points" depending on options, which means using the tallest / #30 front spring (for example), with varying pad thickness depending on the color code. See attached screenshot. Rear spring will be mid-70's points, and #28 spring with varying pads. Good news is the #30 front spring is still available new (ignore the Backordered / Currently Unavailable BS shown on RevParts, this just means it has to come out of Germany). Bad news is the rear #28 spring may have gone NLA recently and will be more difficult to locate. Worse news, almost all Sportline rear springs are NLA now, and only a handful of other rear springs are available from MB. But, since we have the specs for these springs, they could be reproduced (same as the E60 springs).
If you use aftermarket springs, you'll end up with trial and error to get the ride height where you want it. As I've stated elsewhere, I don't recommend going much lower than 14.0" from wheel center to fender lip, on a standard 124 (non-E500E), for a street-driven car. The 036 measurements are slightly different due to the fender shape. On any normal-fender 124, I try to set ride height at 14.00-14.25" front & rear, with a full tank of fuel, and new front struts. The front ride height will gradually drop over 3-5 years as new struts slowly lose pressure. Better to set the front higher and let it settle down, vs set it low and end up with it too low a few years later.
View attachment 233641 View attachment 233642
Only the front springs are still available. Rears are NLA now.
Use LastVIN to decode a USA-spec VIN into the chassis code. Late S124 wagons will be 124.092 for example.
thank you very much
if you saw the video its not a coil over setup, its same as original but the springs have adjustability
It's an interesting design that seems to primarily offer adjustable ride height along with limited damping adjustment (either compression OR rebound, not both, and not specified... not cool.) The kit appears to have a 1-size-fits-all approach which I'm not crazy about, seems they provide the identical springs for all 124 chassis, regardless of weight. We have no idea what chassis (if any) this kit was optimized for. Overall it will be a gamble as to how it works out. You get to be the guinea pig.
Questions:
1) How much is this kit?
2) What are you trying to do exactly - meaning, why do you NOT want to use Sportline springs and commonly available dampers (Bilstein Sports / KONI)?
威昶
Attachments
i don’t know how much is it, i emailed them asking detailsIt's an interesting design that seems to primarily offer adjustable ride height along with limited damping adjustment (either compression OR rebound, not both, and not specified... not cool.) The kit appears to have a 1-size-fits-all approach which I'm not crazy about, seems they provide the identical springs for all 124 chassis, regardless of weight. We have no idea what chassis (if any) this kit was optimized for. Overall it will be a gamble as to how it works out. You get to be the guinea pig.
Questions:
1) How much is this kit?
2) What are you trying to do exactly - meaning, why do you NOT want to use Sportline springs and commonly available dampers (Bilstein Sports / KONI)?
威昶
www.sf-racing.com
View attachment 236156 View attachment 236158
it looks like it could solve the problem with the aftermarket springs, like h&r makes the springs one size fits all and its a hit or miss, here you have the option to properly set the ride height
i don’t know if they make this for cars with SLS, waiting on a response from them
the sportline springs you said only front are available, rear springs NLA
i was just curious to see any other options on this
The adjustable ride height solves one problem - ride height. However, it still provides a single, unknown spring rate that may or may not be ideal for the chassis in question. A 260E won't need the same spring rate as a 400E or a cabrio, for example.
Yeah - the rear Sportline springs went NLA recently, which is a real bummer. We have enough data to have them reproduced, although I don't know what the cost might be.
Yeah - the rear Sportline springs went NLA recently, which is a real bummer. We have enough data to have them reproduced, although I don't know what the cost might be.
i gues the adjustability on the springs would work if the spring rate will also be made for the corespondent car like the inline 6 and V8
what are the details on the rear sportline spring?
MB 124 spring specs (free length, number of coils, and wire diameter) are in this PDF document.
The one hassle for reproducing them is the top coil which is flattened and squished against the next coil.
hi Dave, can you help me a little bit, you said to use the lastVIN to decode the chassis code, having a bit of a trouble to do that
this is the 1995 E320 Wagon VIN: wdbea92e0sf306338. I couldn't see any numbers from my vin to match on the document, what am I doing wrong?
Chassis code for that VIN is 124.092, see screenshot below, you want the 6 digits of the FIN after "WDB".
Mercedes VIN Decoder | Decode Your Mercedes-Benz VIN
Datacard for 1995 Mercedes-Benz E320T (124.092) - WDBEA92E0SF306338
www.lastvin.com
BTW - the rear Sportline #28 springs do appear NLA, but the #23 are still available. MBCC shows they are "reproduced", link. $220 MSRP, ~$160 discount. These are a smidge on the low side for a stock Sportline wagon but might still work ok with the thickest spring pad. You'd have to call a dealer to order, they show as "backorder / unavailable" from most online dealers.
thank you very much DaveChassis code for that VIN is 124.092, see screenshot below, you want the 6 digits of the FIN after "WDB".
Mercedes VIN Decoder | Decode Your Mercedes-Benz VIN
Datacard for 1995 Mercedes-Benz E320T (124.092) - WDBEA92E0SF306338www.lastvin.com
BTW - the rear Sportline #28 springs do appear NLA, but the #23 are still available. MBCC shows they are "reproduced", link. $220 MSRP, ~$160 discount. These are a smidge on the low side for a stock Sportline wagon but might still work ok with the thickest spring pad. You'd have to call a dealer to order, they show as "backorder / unavailable" from most online dealers.
View attachment 236198
I am looking at the charts that you shared and I hope I got it right on the front springs, is this the part number for the front sport line springs #1243212904, did I got it right?
what do you think about combining the front sport liner and maybe h&r or eibach rear springs?Chassis code for that VIN is 124.092, see screenshot below, you want the 6 digits of the FIN after "WDB".
Mercedes VIN Decoder | Decode Your Mercedes-Benz VIN
Datacard for 1995 Mercedes-Benz E320T (124.092) - WDBEA92E0SF306338www.lastvin.com
BTW - the rear Sportline #28 springs do appear NLA, but the #23 are still available. MBCC shows they are "reproduced", link. $220 MSRP, ~$160 discount. These are a smidge on the low side for a stock Sportline wagon but might still work ok with the thickest spring pad. You'd have to call a dealer to order, they show as "backorder / unavailable" from most online dealers.
View attachment 236198
From what I can tell, it looks like a USA-spec .092 wagon will be right around 67-68 points up front, which is juuuust over the #29 springs with a thick pad and would normally use a #30 spring with a thin pad. Ideally you'd get a #30 spring, but if NLA, the #29 with thick pad should be fine. I know the #29 are still available, I just got a pair last week.
Remember this also depends on your preference for ride height. If you want a bit lower than factory Sportline, the #29 is probably what you want anyway.
Depending on the specs for the aftermarket springs, that may be fine, however they usually only sell them in a set of 4 springs.
thank you very much Dave
hi Dave, I found the 124-321-29-04 for a 102.05$ and the 124-324-23-04 for a 165$ from discount dealer, are these good prices? both have to be ordered from Germany, immediately still looking but so far these are the lowest I could find
MB Parts Giant | Genuine Mercedes-Benz Parts Online Store
MBPartsGiant - Your hub for genuine Mercedes-Benz parts. Experience swift shipping and exclusive discounts. Visit MBPartsGiant for OEM parts today!
www.mbpartsgiant.com
found these guys have the lowest price so far
Yes, those prices are pretty good, as long as S&H isn't crazy. There are some dealers with lower pricing but often their S&H is very high.
I'd avoid them like the plague. Search the address on Google and read the reviews. They are terrible. It's a 3rd-party drop-shipper... prepare for lots of problems if you order anything from them.MB Parts Giant | Genuine Mercedes-Benz Parts Online Store
MBPartsGiant - Your hub for genuine Mercedes-Benz parts. Experience swift shipping and exclusive discounts. Visit MBPartsGiant for OEM parts today!
found these guys have the lowest price so far
so far everything i ordered before from them didn’t had any issuesI'd avoid them like the plague. Search the address on Google and read the reviews. They are terrible. It's a 3rd-party drop-shipper... prepare for lots of problems if you order anything from them.
Really! I'm surprised. Are you only buying OE / dealer items from them? Or also aftermarket stuff?
im buying OE stuff, they had very low prices
, i bought sway bar bushings from them because of the low price, but im buying OE stuff
i ordered some stuff from them ill let you know how it goesReally! I'm surprised. Are you only buying OE / dealer items from them? Or also aftermarket stuff?
It appears the 4-pt pad 201-321-12-84 has been replaced with version 201-321-12-84-64, that should be available, but may need to come from Germany? There are aftermarket brands also available. All the RevParts sites show Backordered / Currently Unavailable so you'll need to contact a live person at a dealership.
MBCC:
Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search.
Browse through the Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search to see the availability of parts, promotional and newly manufactured parts and order them online (only in Germany).
partssearch.mercedes-benz-classic.com
thank you very much Dave,It appears the 4-pt pad 201-321-12-84 has been replaced with version 201-321-12-84-64, that should be available, but may need to come from Germany? There are aftermarket brands also available. All the RevParts sites show Backordered / Currently Unavailable so you'll need to contact a live person at a dealership.
MBCC:
Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search.
Browse through the Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search to see the availability of parts, promotional and newly manufactured parts and order them online (only in Germany).
View attachment 236279
so far the MB dealer from scotsdale AZ has been my go to, very nice to work with and very good prices and the online page seems to be always updated, and they dont mind ordering from germany
Search: 1000 results found for "E320 1995"
Shop the largest selection of high-performance coilovers, suspension kits, and components from top brands. Free shipping over $250 in the USA. Trusted suspension experts since 2005.
www.springrates.com
Attachments
<rant>Search: 1000 results found for "E320 1995"
Shop the largest selection of high-performance coilovers, suspension kits, and components from top brands. Free shipping over $250 in the USA. Trusted suspension experts since 2005.
These are not "coilovers". It's getting really old seeing wrong terminology applied to aftermarket kits, probably because the kids these days think "coilover" sounds cool and they want it. What's being sold above (and, by SF Racing in Taiwan) are ADJUSTABLE SPRINGS with separate, custom dampers. The spring design includes a threaded collar/plate assembly which replaces the stock rubber pad, and that combination allows ride height adjustment with the included spanner.
A true "coilover" integrates both the spring AND damper into a single unit, where the coil sits "over" the damper. This design is a Very Bad Idea for any 124/129/201 chassis because the suspension was never designed to support the full weight of the vehicle on the strut or shock tower upper mounts. Thankfully there are very, very few true coilover setups offered for the 124.
It's still annoying to see misleading advertising / marketing. In this case, the MTS Technik don't even offer adjustable dampers, which is additional misinformation, apparently an error on their PDP (Product Detail Page). The "standard features" list includes "Adjustable Shock Absorbers", yet the specifications clearly state damping is "Non-Adjustable".
Also annoying is that none of these places show photos of their exact product actually installed on a 124 chassis. Have they even tested them on a real car?
That's awesome you found a good dealer to buy from. I had been using MB Laredo for the past few years due to the best prices with shipping, but their service has been declining, and they recently added a flat 3% "handling charge".
MB Portland has even better pricing but their S&H is quite high if you don't live on the west coast.
yes its a little bit all over the place with the product description, i was hoping on those guys from youtube video do tell how is the ride but they never followed up with another video, i guess if someone will buy a set and do some testing, also they dont have a kit for Wagon, and they looks like are using Eibach springs, wich makes me think<rant>
These are not "coilovers". It's getting really old seeing wrong terminology applied to aftermarket kits, probably because the kids these days think "coilover" sounds cool and they want it. What's being sold above (and, by SF Racing in Taiwan) are ADJUSTABLE SPRINGS with separate, custom dampers. The spring design includes a threaded collar/plate assembly which replaces the stock rubber pad, and that combination allows ride height adjustment with the included spanner.
A true "coilover" integrates both the spring AND damper into a single unit, where the coil sits "over" the damper. This design is a Very Bad Idea for any 124/129/201 chassis because the suspension was never designed to support the full weight of the vehicle on the strut or shock tower upper mounts. Thankfully there are very, very few true coilover setups offered for the 124.
It's still annoying to see misleading advertising / marketing. In this case, the MTS Technik don't even offer adjustable dampers, which is additional misinformation, apparently an error on their PDP (Product Detail Page). The "standard features" list includes "Adjustable Shock Absorbers", yet the specifications clearly state damping is "Non-Adjustable".
Also annoying is that none of these places show photos of their exact product actually installed on a 124 chassis. Have they even tested them on a real car?
View attachment 236287
, probably the only good part from the kit is the custom damper thing for adjustability, i feel like you can use that thing on a regular springwhats your opinion on price?
MTS Technik price at $850 isn't terrible, but not a great deal either. It's on par with buying a set of standard aftermarket springs and sport dampers. ALl you are getting is finer adjustability with ride height, plus no-name dampers of questionable quality.
SF-Racing, still don't know the price, but the same thing kinda applies. Their kit at least has single-adjustable dampers, likely adjustable rebound only, like KONI.
Both of these kits have a single spring rate, which may or may not be ideal for your particular car. This is why I prefer the factory Sportline setup where possible, MB engineers already did the nerdy stuff to figure out what worked well for a specific 124 chassis.
SF-Racing, still don't know the price, but the same thing kinda applies. Their kit at least has single-adjustable dampers, likely adjustable rebound only, like KONI.
Both of these kits have a single spring rate, which may or may not be ideal for your particular car. This is why I prefer the factory Sportline setup where possible, MB engineers already did the nerdy stuff to figure out what worked well for a specific 124 chassis.
I think feal suspension will offer you a damper for a w201 without a spring if you want to mess with adjustable damping with either H&R or eibach lowering springs.
I do think they sold those as a true coilover- to hit David’s point, but I corresponded with them and let them know my idea and they were open to it.
Only reason I didn’t go with it it cause I feel it’s a bit off to go for sharp double digressive damping profile in the front of the car and rely on old sls damping action in the rear… Might be nice or might be a waste of money? lol
I do think they sold those as a true coilover- to hit David’s point, but I corresponded with them and let them know my idea and they were open to it.
Only reason I didn’t go with it it cause I feel it’s a bit off to go for sharp double digressive damping profile in the front of the car and rely on old sls damping action in the rear… Might be nice or might be a waste of money? lol
hi Dave, what size rubber pad would you recommend to go with on my 95 Wagon?MTS Technik price at $850 isn't terrible, but not a great deal either. It's on par with buying a set of standard aftermarket springs and sport dampers. ALl you are getting is finer adjustability with ride height, plus no-name dampers of questionable quality.
SF-Racing, still don't know the price, but the same thing kinda applies. Their kit at least has single-adjustable dampers, likely adjustable rebound only, like KONI.
Both of these kits have a single spring rate, which may or may not be ideal for your particular car. This is why I prefer the factory Sportline setup where possible, MB engineers already did the nerdy stuff to figure out what worked well for a specific 124 chassis.
with these springs
front: 124.321.29.04
rear: 124.324.23.04
i have all the rubber pads sizes for the front and back
Based on the spring charts in post #2, for a USA-spec .092, I'd probably start with a 4pt pad up front and 3pt pad in the rear. Drive it a few miles to settle the suspension and measure the ride height all around. You'll need to tweak / adjust to get the front vs rear height set so it looks good. This is all a lot of trial & error experimentation, along with some personal preference.
What color (red or blue) are your new springs, front & rear? Red = short, blue = tall.
What color (red or blue) are your new springs, front & rear? Red = short, blue = tall.
the rear springs have 2 different colors, one blue and one red but are the same in height, front is red and yellow
Attachments
is that okey for the rear to be a bit different in size?
Yup, it will be fine. If you notice a slight difference in measured ride height (wheel center to fender lip) you can try to compensate with a thicker pad on the red spring, but this might just make the difference flip to the other side. And, it's normal to have ~1/4" difference left to right even with identical springs/pads.
got it, ill post updates after installation, thank you
its going to have a significant drop in height, with the old springs the car was lifted up too much
@TOPnotch55,
If you compare those springs to the Eibach lowering springs you’ll see that the Eibach’s
would be about 6” lower yet.
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