FOR SALE 1990 500E Brabus 6.0L, Black Pearl/Black, 82kmi, BaT (Doylestown, PA)

[TerryA]

I feel that a previous owner’s selection of tires often gives me a clue about the way the owner approached maintenance of the machine.

The last three hobbyist cars I have purchased came with Michelin tires. Two came with Pilot Super Sports. One came with TRX (ok maybe that’s cheating .... )

THIS IS THE 124.036 EVERYBODY WOULD LIKE TO OWN, HANDS DOWN

WHAT A SHAME the Seller sends it to Auction with Pep Boy's Cheap Cooper tires, Cheapo Depo headlights, Really UUUGLY TOW HOOK. If this is truly a BRABUS E60 it deserves way better prep than it's getting. This seller has just polished a turd and in is trying for TOP DOLLAR without ADDING ANY MORE COST TO HIS INVESTMENT.

What would Dean Laumbach have done with a car like this?

It's a shame to see somebody get suckered into this and still have to invest another $10K to bring it up to par.

Just my $0.02

 

[janos_z]

I made a comment about the incorrect headlights on BaT yesterday shortly after Bruce M posted that photo, but my post never popped up. Probably because I included links to images of the correct headlights.

 

[gerryvz]

BaT is making a habit of censoring many many posts that are well-intentioned, and not just on this auction.

 

[gerryvz]

invest another $10K to bring it up to par.

$10K?!?!? We're talking $20-30K, on top of the $100K sale price "suggestion" that the seller made in his original peanut gallery post that a lesser car had sold for (the inference being that this car would be well north of that).

The $50K out-of-the-gate bid I'm sure encouraged the seller that he has a major winner on his hands.

Savvy people on BaT and here know differently. This car CAN and SHOULD be brought back to its former glory, but it is going to take some serious buck$ to do it. It is a significant and seemingly documented car.

People on BaT can dismiss "punch lists" as mere opinion and tiny/insignificant stuff all they want -- but I would challenge anyone reading the punch list to argue with the accuracy of any point made. To date, no one has, because no one can.

 

[captruff]

THIS IS THE 124.036 EVERYBODY WOULD LIKE TO OWN, HANDS DOWN

WHAT A SHAME the Seller sends it to Auction with Pep Boy's Cheap Cooper tires, Cheapo Depo headlights, Really UUUGLY TOW HOOK. If this is truly a BRABUS E60 it deserves way better prep than it's getting. This seller has just polished a turd and in is trying for TOP DOLLAR without ADDING ANY MORE COST TO HIS INVESTMENT.

What would Dean Laumbach have done with a car like this?

It's a shame to see somebody get suckered into this and still have to invest another $10K to bring it up to par.

Just my $0.02

Terry:

When I purchased my 1997 Brabus the car had several issues:

All four Brabus wheels were bent, one with a missing center cap, and mix matched Nexen tires

Front Alcon brake rotors were way under minimum spec

Known running issue which was a mystery to seller and all his technicians.

In order to baseline the car I spent over the initial purchase price, but I knew this would be the case before I purchased the car.

The 1996 AMG E60 I purchased was in no better shape. Rear tires (different brand than the fronts) were showing cords at time of purchase and had to be replaced so that Aaron aka speedy300dturbo could safely drive the car from the Bay Area to Orange County.

As long as the potential buyer understands what or what he is not purchasing. As always: "buyer beware" "caveat emptor"

Jeff

 

[Jlaa]

$10K?!?!? We're talking $20-30K, on top of the $100K sale price "suggestion" that the seller made in his original peanut gallery post that a lesser car had sold for (the inference being that this car would be well north of that).

In order to baseline the car I spent over the initial purchase price, but I knew this would be the case before I purchased the car.

The 1996 AMG E60 I purchased was in no better shape. Rear tires (different brand than the fronts) were showing cords at time of purchase and had to be replaced so that Aaron aka speedy300dturbo could safely drive the car from the Bay Area to Orange County.
As long as the potential buyer understands what or what he is not purchasing. As always: "buyer beware" "caveat emptor"

Being totally honest with myself, in four years I have spent 30K on my pedestrian 500E (not including my grand adventure with making the Becker 1432 sound nice) getting it to a better condition than it was when I bought it. There is still a lot more I could do to make it nicer.

Some of this work I did myself, whereas some of this work was executed by professionals. Much of the work that did not require a lift, like upper wiring harness, blower motor, interior disassembly and reassembly, rotors/pads/calipers, ECU, fuel pressure regulator, vacuum lines, spark plugs, caps, insulators, rotors, ignition switch .... I did myself. Stuff that required a lift (exhaust, driveshaft couplers, control arms), stuff that is a PITA (fan clutch / radiator, etc), or stuff that requires specific expertise (paint, upholstery) was outsourced.

Now it is in "nice Sunday Driver" condition, but certainly not "Jeff-Captruff-Monterey-Condition."

@Ntrepid saw my car up close around 2014/2015 when the previous owner owned it ---- it was not tatty, but it certainly wasn't in pristine condition. In my opinion, the Brabus car offered for sale has more issues than my car when I bought it. The little things add up quickly.

 

[Ntrepid]

@Ntrepid saw my car up close around 2014/2015 when the previous owner owned it ---- it was not tatty, but it certainly wasn't in pristine condition. In my opinion, the Brabus car offered for sale has more issues than my car when I bought it. The little things add up quickly.

I’ve seen this car twice (2015 & 2018) and each under separate stewardships. @jeff0093 had a great example and invested in keeping it OEM. @Jlaa has continued that and progressed to OEM+ (including enhancements which simply were not available when this model was produced).


Robert

 

[gsxr]

Look to me like standard W124 (300E/400E) headlights

View attachment 113636

They are standard 124 facelift lights, for LHT (Japan/UK). The seller did note they are LHT although that tidbit might slip by some people. You can't just swap lenses either, have to swap both reflectors and lenses, and I don't know if the Bosch and Hella reflectors are interchangeable.

The car is 1990 (not 1991) and has the pre-facelift hood, so the lights shown above aren't correct for shape reasons in addition to LHT and non-036.

 

[PJmak]

Whats with the trunk badges? they look like they were sprayed over while on the car

 

[gerryvz]

Whats with the trunk badges? they look like they were sprayed over while on the car

That's exactly what they are. It's mentioned in the punch list. May be an issue to some, may not be an issue to others.

 

[PJmak]

That's exactly what they are. It's mentioned in the punch list. May be an issue to some, may not be an issue to others.

I think that should be an issue to everyone on a 50k car or any car

 

[gerryvz]

I think for some folks it's probably not an issue; for others it may be. I don't consider it a flaw, just a punch list observation.

Personally, I wouldn't have done it -- I would have de-badged the car

 

[gerryvz]

the lights shown above aren't correct for shape reasons in addition to LHT and non-036.

Unless it is sold to a buyer in an LHT country, that reduces it to two reasons.

 

[JAB12]

I think I just lost another $5 on this lot. Should've added RNM. So much to learn, so little time.

 

[gerryvz]

Live and learn, JAB.

As was said already, BaT won't allow for a massive / out of bounds reserve just because the seller thinks his car is worth more than the Hope Diamond. They beat sellers up quite a bit to keep reserves as low as possible, as they don't like RNMs.

On the surface this car looks like a Hope Diamond. "Real" Brabus, 6-liter, known seller, yadda-cubed. Plenty of BaT "peanutters" (uninformed / non-knowledgeable peanut gallery denizens) are going ape-shit over this car in the comments.

I'm sure that even BaT got a bit caught up in the hype going in, as this is a fairly rare car. That likely led to the reserve being higher than it (or better said.....the market) thinks it should be.

There's a lot of inherent goodness with this car, but it's going to take some real work and money to bring it out. Any buyer bidding on this car, needs to go in with both eyes open (as @captruff said quite well, earlier). This significant car really deserves to be brought to glory.

 

[JAB12]

Live and learn, JAB.

As was said already, BaT won't allow for a massive / out of bounds reserve just because the seller thinks his car is worth more than the Hope Diamond. They beat sellers up quite a bit to keep reserves as low as possible, as they don't like RNMs.

On the surface this car looks like a Hope Diamond. "Real" Brabus, 6-liter, known seller, yadda-cubed. Plenty of BaT "peanutters" (uninformed / non-knowledgeable peanut gallery denizens) are going ape-shit over this car in the comments.

I'm sure that even BaT got a bit caught up in the hype going in, as this is a fairly rare car. That likely led to the reserve being higher than it (or better said.....the market) thinks it should be.

There's a lot of inherent goodness with this car, but it's going to take some real work and money to bring it out. Any buyer bidding on this car, needs to go in with both eyes open (as @captruff said quite well, earlier). This significant car really deserves to be brought to glory.

Indeed it does. Is the color at least factory?, although repainted since, or was the car painted as part of the 'Brabus Package' as well?. Sounds like this car would need +$40-$50K to bring back to as close to original as possible and restored/service condition, which if it were would then warrant all this buzz over it that has also now bled into other social media platforms. I still don't get it, much to learn still....Thank you @gerryvz

 

[PJmak]

The fact that the emblems are just painted over and that the car is pieced together with non factory spec parts tells a lot about this car and the owner. seems like a quick flip deal Id stay away for that price.

 

[msq]

As an aside, BAT needs to fix their search function.
If you search "Mercedes Brabus", this car doesn't show up. If you search "Mercedes 6.0" this car does show up and clearly shows Brabus in the title.

@JAB12 - agree w/your point, the car would need a lot of $$ to bring it back to being "right". I don't know if the SLS was removed as part of the Brabus conversion (doubtful) or if someone did it after (likely), that alone (restoring SLS system) is a lot, and even if one doesn't do everything on that punch list, there are other things not mentioned on that punch list that I would check and that might need work on a car this old if they have never been replaced (e.g. differential seals, high pressure fuel lines etc.) that are known to potentially need replacement. Those examples I used are not unique to this car, so it's not a criticism of the car - just that its a 29 year old Mercedes.

 

[a777fan]

the 50k bid seems to have scared everyone (including the peanuts) off this one...

 

[gerryvz]

The SLS removal is a real shame, and most definitely detracts from the value of the car. It's why I have the price (and others as well) not that much higher than the car is now. I'm sure there will be a burst of activity at the end of the auction.

@UnhingedTroll has said he feels it will be an RNMer. We shall see.

@gerryvz@UnhingedTroll

 

[gsxr]

Whats with the trunk badges? they look like they were sprayed over while on the car

The fact that the emblems are just painted over and that the car is pieced together with non factory spec parts tells a lot about this car and the owner. seems like a quick flip deal Id stay away for that price.

It's POSSIBLE the trunk badge paint was part of the Brabus work. With no records, it's hard to say. If not, it was very likely a personal preference by a previous owner. IMO, this is one of the smaller issues to worry about on this particular car. I'd probably leave the badges alone if it landed in my driveway.

As an aside, BAT needs to fix their search function. If you search "Mercedes Brabus", this car doesn't show up. If you search "Mercedes 6.0" this car does show up and clearly shows Brabus in the title.

That's just embarrassing for BaT.

The SLS removal is a real shame, and most definitely detracts from the value of the car. It's why I have the price (and others as well) not that much higher than the car is now. I'm sure there will be a burst of activity at the end of the auction.

I agree, the SLS will be one of the bigger headaches to fix; along with sourcing factory catalysts, which are NLA; and the correct NLA 036-correct lights.

I'm suspecting RNM as well, but it's hard to guess since the seller is a consignment dealer, not the owner. Dunno if reserve was set by owner, or seller.

 

[Ntrepid]

As an aside, BAT needs to fix their search function.
If you search "Mercedes Brabus", this car doesn't show up. If you search "Mercedes 6.0" this car does show up and clearly shows Brabus in the title.

If you search 500E, it does not show up either.


Robert

 

[PJmak]

I get your approach about the badge but I guess Id be concerned that other issues on this car weren't attended to in same careless/lazy manner

I've never seen painted over badges on any mercedes. Anyways carry on

 

[msq]

If you search 500E, it does not show up either.


Robert

The crazy thing is if you search for "Mercedes" "Brabus" other Mercedes Brabus cars show up....just not the one live auction (which is supposed to).

 

[Ntrepid]

The crazy thing is if you search for "Mercedes" "Brabus" other Mercedes Brabus cars show up....just not the one live auction (which is supposed to).

What does searching Mercedes Repop do?


Robert

 

[xfadmin]

It seems that the BaT peanut gallery for this car has somehow beamed over to this forum from the BaT auction page.

 

[gerryvz]

It's POSSIBLE the trunk badge paint was part of the Brabus work. With no records, it's hard to say. If not, it was very likely a personal preference by a previous owner. IMO, this is one of the smaller issues to worry about on this particular car. I'd probably leave the badges alone if it landed in my driveway.

I think the paint is too new/fresh to be something that Brabus did. From everything I could tell, it's been repainted since Brabus did their magic to the car. That paint is just too thick, and too fresh, on those tunk numbers to be 25 years old. And I don't think Brabus would have mis-installed the "6.0" too far to the right as it is on the tunk.

I agree that it is not a big deal, in the overall swing of things.



I had the search issue on BaT for this car, as well. Finally had to come back to the first post in this thread and click through, as I was not able to pull it up on the BaT site using their search engine.

I now have some expertise in search engines, and would be happy to help BaT out with implementing the very best search engine technology out there....elasticsearch. Don't know why search has been such a big issue with Banzworld, either. I mean, it's not rocket science.

The discussion here about the car is certainly much more healthy, robust, and informed than it is at BaT. They seem to allow the cheerleading posts, but censor out any actual critical thinking or comments. Or if you make one, some idiot BaT member (or a seller) marks the comment as non-productive, and then the member either gets their future posts put on approval only, or shadow-banned. We are 100% freedom of speech / opinion here.

 

[PJmak]

I just bookmark this page below and thats how I go to the site. Takes me directly to all current Mercedes auctions.

Mercedes-Benz

Browse and bid online for the chance to own a Mercedes-Benz at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online.

bringatrailer.com

 

[Jlaa]

Did anyone happen to notice this on the datacard?
Underhood engine light? Cool! I've never seen one in person .... I can't find it in the pictures..... anyone have a picture of one?

 

[gerryvz]

It's been discussed long ago, perhaps in the 500Ecstasy days. Rare as rocking-horse poop option.

 

[PJmak]

It seems that the BaT peanut gallery for this car has somehow beamed over to this forum from the BaT auction page.

Its a forum made for discussing car related subjects

 

[a777fan]

I think the paint is too new/fresh to be something that Brabus did. From everything I could tell, it's been repainted since Brabus did their magic to the car. That paint is just too thick, and too fresh, on those tunk numbers to be 25 years old.

Agree. The 'ripply' paint edges around the badges also indicate a quick job, IMHO.

Such a weird basket case this one.

Question - I assume the engine number (stamped on the block) is the only way to confirm what this particular Pp actually is? I mean, other than the odd 140 bits that have already been pointed out, I assume my 420 engine bay would look the same as this one with the Brabus air cleaner plopped on? Or is there more to it that can be used to identify?

 

[gsxr]

... Id be concerned that other issues on this car weren't attended to in same careless/lazy manner

The elephant in the room is that the car lived in Japan for decades and apparently zero records are available prior to the 21 valve spring purchase. That's a pretty large gap. Then the owner had it in the USA for 4 years but never registered it. And the owner is MIA on the auction?

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a really neat car, super early production, but it will need some TLC and $$$$. Also, I think the BaT peanut gallery is reading Gerry's punch list as "everything on the list must be fixed!". But half the items on the list are just observations of non-original items, not necessarily items requiring repair or replacement.

 

[JAB12]

As I mentioned in a previous post, this is all about sale prep. Maybe if one (or a few) of these would be included with the sale: BRABUS Atmosphere | BRABUS Online Shop

....the seller, who is following this thread btw, can most assuredly guarantee his $100K aspirations.

 

[gsxr]

Question - I assume the engine number (stamped on the block) is the only way to confirm what this particular Pp actually is? I mean, other than the odd 140 bits that have already been pointed out, I assume my 420 engine bay would look the same as this one with the Brabus air cleaner plopped on? Or is there more to it that can be used to identify?

The ONLY way to verify 6L displacement would be measuring stroke, or putting on a chassis dyno. For the dyno test, the engine must be putting out full power. My first 6.0L felt strong but put out less HP than a stock 500E! After I sorted out the issue, power went to normal. But had someone just looked at the peak HP number from the dyno graph, they could have said "fake engine!". But nope, it was legit, just needed some help releasing the ponies.

The engine number stamped on the block would verify if it's the original 5.0L block, modified by Brabus, or something else. It was not unheard of for engine builders to use some other engine block to build into a 6L, and swap that into the car, removing the original engine. One of my 6L's has this, with a W140 donor engine.

A full PPI from a shop that knows these cars forwards & backwards would be very highly recommended on a $75k+ purchase. The $2k (or whatever) you spend paying Blue Ridge MB to fly up and check out the car could pay dividends at hammertime. Any serious bidders reading this, call Blue Ridge, please and thank you.

 

[a777fan]

Question - I assume the engine number (stamped on the block) is the only way to confirm what this particular Pp actually is? I mean, other than the odd 140 bits that have already been pointed out, I assume my 420 engine bay would look the same as this one with the Brabus air cleaner plopped on? Or is there more to it that can be used to identify?

The ONLY way to verify 6L displacement would be measuring stroke, or putting on a chassis dyno.

 

[gsxr]

I assume my 420 engine bay would look the same as this one with the Brabus air cleaner plopped on?

It would look nearly identical, yup... you'd also need the red valve covers (like @gerryvz) and the spiffy Brabus metal plate.

 

[Bogeyman]

To me, the elephant in the room is Brabus and their attitude toward their previous projects.
Don't get me wrong, I love this car if it is legit and might even pony up a bid if there was ANY verification for it.
But in reality what we have is what you can see, a collection of parts that indicate they were from Brabus originally
and an engine that is alleged to be upgraded to 6.0L but who knows?
If Brabus indeed suffered a fire, did they not have computers in '06? Were they not backed up? Why the attitude?
In a way this reminds me of the muscle car guys trying to verify if that Hemi Cuda has the real original engine or a re-stamp.
Without verifying documents, who knows?

 

[TimL]

I agree, the SLS will be one of the bigger headaches to fix; along with sourcing factory catalysts, which are NLA; and the correct NLA 036-correct lights.

3k Euro and the headlight problem is solved (no affiliation by the way- bought another article from this seller two years ago and it was a shitty experience, so personally would never by anything from this dude again, no matter what he sells, but that’s just me).

Gebrauchte Autoteile günstig | kleinanzeigen.de

Kleinanzeigen: Gebrauchte Autoteile günstig kaufen - Jetzt in Friedrichshafen finden oder inserieren! - kleinanzeigen.de

m.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de

 

[gsxr]

3k Euro and the headlight problem is solved (no affiliation by the way- bought another article from this seller two years ago and it was a shitty experience, so personally would never by anything from this dude again, no matter what he sells, but that’s just me).

Gebrauchte Autoteile günstig | kleinanzeigen.de

Kleinanzeigen: Gebrauchte Autoteile günstig kaufen - Jetzt in Friedrichshafen finden oder inserieren! - kleinanzeigen.de

m.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de

Sadly those are also LHT lamps. And way overpriced for LHT, IMO...

 

[195910]

Without referring to this or any particular car, I can give these general comments:

- Brabus suspension option for the 124036 with lowering springs and possibly re-valved original struts similar to what AMG and lorinser offers.
No option to throw out the factory 124036 [SLS] suspension.

- Brabus exhaust options was the rear muffler (type 129), no cat-back or such was offered. The sport catalytic converters were later available with the 2009 converted car, but not of the period correct ones.

- Interior modifications were per customer request, but the period correct examples suggest limited choices such as reupholstered seats in Mastic leather and a brabus steering wheel on pre-facelift 124036, the 300km/h speedometer and some minor accessories such as the floor mats, entry plate. And my favourite: a now outdated navigation system.

- Monochrome of sacco panels was available from brabus.

- Engine block is modified not replaced, especially on a closed deck M119, A good way of determining if its a real brabus tuned 6.x ? yes to a certain extent, as you still need to prove that its a 6.x (not just labeled as such) and that it was brabus that did this 6.x conversion (not a machine shop in the country it was imported from).

 

[TimL]

Sadly those are also LHT lamps. And way overpriced for LHT, IMO...



View attachment 113652

Told you the dude was shady! In his offer there is no mention of these being LHT- selling them in GERMANY (RHT). All around great guy

Thanks for your watchfulness Dave!

 

[gerryvz]

Cost me nearly $200 for the powder-coating of my valve covers, here in Maryland. Much more than it cost me in Texas. But they add 20 HP to the engine's output.

 

[a777fan]

Cost me nearly $200 for the powder-coating of my valve covers, here in Maryland. Much more than it cost me in Texas. But they add 20 HP to the engine's output.

i heard more like 40!

 

[TerryA]

Terry:

When I purchased my 1997 Brabus the car had several issues:

All four Brabus wheels were bent, one with a missing center cap, and mix matched Nexen tires

Front Alcon brake rotors were way under minimum spec

Known running issue which was a mystery to seller and all his technicians.

In order to baseline the car I spent over the initial purchase price, but I knew this would be the case before I purchased the car.

The 1996 AMG E60 I purchased was in no better shape. Rear tires (different brand than the fronts) were showing cords at time of purchase and had to be replaced so that Aaron aka speedy300dturbo could safely drive the car from the Bay Area to Orange County.

As long as the potential buyer understands what or what he is not purchasing. As always: "buyer beware" "caveat emptor"

Jeff

Jeff,

I couldn’t agree with you more.

It’s BUYER BEWARE

As a former antique auction buyer with my wife for 30 years. It’s imperative to know the merchandise that you are bidding on. Once they drop the hammer, it yours. Not doing your homework can result in a major disappointment BUT it would be your own fault.

I’m sure this offering will find a home. If it goes Reserve Not Met. It should come back in better condition.

Take Care

 

[2phast]

It's POSSIBLE the trunk badge paint was part of the Brabus work. With no records, it's hard to say. If not, it was very likely a personal preference by a previous owner. IMO, this is one of the smaller issues to worry about on this particular car. I'd probably leave the badges alone if it landed in my driveway.



That's just embarrassing for BaT.




I agree, the SLS will be one of the bigger headaches to fix; along with sourcing factory catalysts, which are NLA; and the correct NLA 036-correct lights.

I'm suspecting RNM as well, but it's hard to guess since the seller is a consignment dealer, not the owner. Dunno if reserve was set by owner, or seller.

My experience with BaT is that YOU don't get to set the reserve, BaT determines this and if you don't agree, you don't get your car listed.

I went several rounds with these guys for the reserve on my car and finally had to agree to lower the reserve and BaT in turn agreed to up their suggested reserve, so we basically met in the middle.

A friend of mine tried to list two cars, one they outright refused to put on their site and the other which they did accept, was listed with a reserve that BaT set, not the seller. My friend had a few discussions with BaT about it and they wouldn't budge on their suggested reserve price.

 

[gerryvz]

So you’re saying that BaT basically dictates the reserve, with some limited room for. negotiation with the seller. But in the end the seller has to agree, or it’s no listing.

I don’t think this car has yet reached its reserve.

It is also interesting that there has been ZERO bids since the “burst out of the gate” $50K bid. That bidder may or may not be rueing his bid.

Next few days will be interesting. In any case, as often happens, this site will be blamed by the owner if the car goes RNM or comes in substantially lower than expected but meets reserve. Because, always other guy’s fault.

 

[Ntrepid]

So you’re saying that BaT basically dictates the reserve, with some limited room for. negotiation with the seller. But in the end the seller has to agree, or it’s no listing.

Correct. I believe BaT wants to keep a low reserve to ensure the car sells as their marketing folks want people to believe that a car listed on BaT has a high percentage of selling. Since BaT auction close prices are typically higher than what a seller can get anywhere else, the sales funnel stays chock full and there is a wait from acceptance to listing.


Robert

 

[8899]

But in reality what we have is what you can see, a collection of parts that indicate they were from Brabus originally
and an engine that is alleged to be upgraded to 6.0L but who knows?
Without verifying documents, who knows?

That's exactly right. Until some verification is provided that this car has a Brabus 6.0L under the hood, it is nothing more than a heavily modified and badge-engineered w124.036.

 

[gsxr]

Correct. I believe BaT wants to keep a low reserve to ensure the car sells as their marketing folks want people to believe that a car listed on BaT has a high percentage of selling. Since BaT auction close prices are typically higher than what a seller can get anywhere else, the sales funnel stays chock full and there is a wait from acceptance to listing.

To clarify... the seller ASKS for a particular reserve number. BaT must APPROVE the reserve. If they feel it's too high (may result in no-sale), they will push back for a lower number. You either both agree to the reserve amount, or BaT tells you to get lost, and won't list the car. I guess you could say "I want a reserve" and let BaT come up with a number, which I'm sure they would.