FOR SALE 1993 500E, Smoke Silver/Cream-Beige, 138kmi, BaT No Reserve (Portland, OR)

[Bogeyman]

VIN = WDBEA36EXPB860198

No Reserve: 1993 Mercedes-Benz 500E

Bid for the chance to own a No Reserve: 1993 Mercedes-Benz 500E at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #29,660.

bringatrailer.com

 

[Harv]

No Reserve will be interesting

 

[gsxr]

Those headlights+wipers give me a sad. Shame the wheels are W140 in the wrong offset, instead of the low-offset R129 version. The extra wide lip on the R129 wheels look meaner (to my eyes, anyway).

Otherwise looks pretty clean and rust-free. Scary time for a no-reserve listing though.

 

[Efraim]

Neat installation of extra amp in trunk.
What kind of sound does it produce when one muffler is removed?

 

[gerryvz]

This car is in my personal database.

I first saw this car in December, 2004 at used car dealer "M-Driven Motors" in Portland, OR. This was back when I was living in Portland. The car was being offered for sale at $33K, with 56K miles on the odometer. I have attached copies of auctions and other information about the car that I have in my private files.

Link to data card: VIN Decoder for Mercedes-Benz

My private notes about the car are as follows:

Posted 9-24-04. Asking $32,900. Chrome AMG star wheels. Looks to be local Rasmussen car. Visibly perfect -- seems to be unmodified except for wheels.
UPDATE 3-4-05: Saw this car in person (M-Driven) and it is quite nice, very stock, looks clean and well-maintained. No obvious mods.
UPDATE 10-1-05: For sale on AutoTrader.com for $35,775. Same on MarketDriven.com web site.
UPDATE 12-29-05: Still on AutoTrader.com, mileage 58,500, asking $31,775.
UPDATE 2-17-06: Still on AutoTrader at same price and mileage. Not on their web site any longer.
UPDATE 7-26-06: On eBay, mileage 63,100, currently at $11,300. Looks like Ed Hamilton still owns car, seller is new eBayer "Drive Inc. Portland". Has 18" AMG chrome wheels now.
UPDATE 11-15-06: Saw car in for minor service (battery?) at MBI Motors; had 65K miles on the odometer.
UPDATE 6-23-08: Car still for sale in PDX evidently by Ed Hamilton; mileage 72,300; asking price $22,850. Chrome AMG star wheels. Car has Brembo brakes with vented rotors.
UPDATE 6-25-2018: Got a PM inquiry on the car from new 500Eboard member "Locked Up." He said he is interested in the car, it has 133K miles on it, and wanted to see if I had more info.

 

[gerryvz]

Photos from BaT auction attached:

 

[gerryvz]

Remaining photos from BaT:

 

[gerryvz]

I remember seeing this car for sale before I moved to Texas back in 2008. It was a nice car and well-maintained -- probably one of the nicest ones in Portland that I knew of at the time. The owner of the "M-Driven" shop that was selling it at the time, used the car as a personal daily driver. I don't recall seeing any issues with it at the time.

For now, I see some cracked paint and the usual types of scratches and dings -- nothing egregious. Mirror boots need to be replaced, as do the zoom tubes underhood. Could use a good detailing inside and out, but it's cleaner than a lot of cars that I see. Headliner desperately needs replacing. Looks like a Timevalve Y-pipe was installed. I see some repair/maintenance slips in the folder from local shop MBI Motors, meaning that previous owners took the time and money to take it to a good shop that knew 500Es (it looks like the MBI invoices pre-date this seller by some years).

Given the cosmetics, balanced with the mileage and what I see underneath -- this car is going to need between $5 and $10K to bring up to a solid mechanical and cosmetic standard.

In the current economic climate, I would be surprised to see the car hit $25K + fees, but I could be surprised if the right buyer comes along. Realistically, I see this as a $20-25K final bid.

Which is too bad, because being a Portland car, the interior is nicely preserved -- all those gray clouds in the PNW are wonderful for preserving Benz interiors.

 

[gsxr]

Neat installation of extra amp in trunk.
What kind of sound does it produce when one muffler is removed?

Replacing the resonator (middle muffler) with a Y-pipe saves ~15 lbs in weight and adds a slight bit of rumble. Still quiet and close to stock.

 

[alabbasi]

Given the current environment, I that very soon, you'll find that the value of rough example cars will be significantly down. I expect those cars in 6 months to be changing hands at around $7k or less.

 

[gerryvz]

So far, this car is not off to a very exciting start.

I think the "slammed" look from the H&Rs appeals to only a sub-set of buyers.

I remember it back in the day (2004-2006 time frame). I saw it a number of times. It was one of the nicer examples I'd seen up to that time. Looks like it's seen some wear and tear in the years since. I hope the seller details perhaps a bit more of the work that has been done over the years to maintain the car.

 

[TimL]

Wrong (non 500E) headlight lenses, no?

 

[gsxr]

Wrong (non 500E) headlight lenses, no?

Wrong headlights, lenses, and wipers. All fixable, just like replacing the W140 wheels...

 

[Pathung]

I dislike the slammed-down look; is it difficult to source stock 500E suspension components, as well as stock wheels (would those be the same as on early R129s?)?

 

[gsxr]

I dislike the slammed-down look; is it difficult to source stock 500E suspension components, as well as stock wheels (would those be the same as on early R129s?)?

Should be no problem to return to stock suspension, and stock wheels. And yes, the 500E wheels are identical to early R129 with the 8-hole wheels, also still available brand new from MB, I think?

 

[Pathung]

Should be no problem to return to stock suspension, and stock wheels. And yes, the 500E wheels are identical to early R129 with the 8-hole wheels, also still available brand new from MB, I think?

@gsxr Thank you. I see close to half of BaT E500E listings sporting aftermarket suspension and AMG-type wheels, so knowing that originals can be located and used will greatly widen my listing options, when I'm ready to bid.

 

[maw1124]

This looks like Ace10’s “$12,500 and not a penny more...no joke” car to me.

Pity what they did with that stereo install. The dash speakers are the reason you don’t need to butcher door cards. I do like the Amp set up, even if not the sub location. But the crossovers suggest whoever installed it didn’t do much researching or measuring before cutting and installing. Looks like a “more money than brains” install to me. Oh well. Blame the Fed.

I’m predicting something around $17k for this, if that, certainly if the Maine (now CT) car went for under $20k.

Yet I still love Smoke Silver. I wonder if I’m about to be one of those multiple 500E owners soon...

maw

 

[TimL]

Wrong headlights, lenses, and wipers. All fixable, just like replacing the W140 wheels...

I get the wipers, but what, aside from the lenses, is wrong about the headlights themselves?

 

[gsxr]

Pity what they did with that stereo install. The dash speakers are the reason you don’t need to butcher door cards. I do like the Amp set up, even if not the sub location. But the crossovers suggest whoever installed it didn’t do much researching or measuring before cutting and installing.

Those JLaa amps and Focal speakers are good stuff. Installation could have been neater, but it's all fixable.

I get the wipers, but what, aside from the lenses, is wrong about the headlights themselves?

036 Euro headlights have a minor differences vs standard lights. It isn't just the lens. If the lights on the car now are Hella (Bosch would work too), yes, you could modify the standard light and clip on the correct 036 lenses. It's equally possible the lights on the car are Depo or other off-shore lights, can't tell without checking in-person. Yeah, you could use the Depo lights, but on an 036... naaaaah.

 

[gsxr]

This looks like Ace10’s “$12,500 and not a penny more...no joke” car to me.

Yet I still love Smoke Silver. I wonder if I’m about to be one of those multiple 500E owners soon...

This has Ace written all over it. He's going to get shamed if he doesn't at least toss out a low bid.

If you love Smoke Silver that much, I might make you a deal on my '92... been planning to put that up for sale eventually, just haven't gotten around to prepping it. And, I wanted to get the E63 sold first, well before COVID went and messed it up again.

 

[ace10]

Why in the world would anyone be bidding on "collector" cars at the present time? Especially on an ego-driven venue like BaT. It's lunacy.

Most sellers are still sporting those rose-colored glasses from circa mid-2019. It takes some time for the pain to be felt. And it certainly is coming. Heck, people haven't even gotten their March portfolio statements yet.

If somebody wants to unload a great example at a "fire sale" price, I'm all ears. Cash in hand.


And just to be fair and balanced, I've had one of my Land Cruisers on the market since late February. A great example. Top dollar firm ask. I don't expect to sell it. And compared to other segments, old trucks and SUVs appear to be holding up pretty well.

 

[Jlaa]

This looks like Ace10’s “$12,500 and not a penny more...no joke” car to me.

Pity what they did with that stereo install. The dash speakers are the reason you don’t need to butcher door cards. I do like the Amp set up, even if not the sub location. But the crossovers suggest whoever installed it didn’t do much researching or measuring before cutting and installing. Looks like a “more money than brains” install to me. Oh well. Blame the Fed.

Yeah, I don't really understand what's going on with those tweeters or mids that were installed in the door cards. Like --- I'm sure they weren't installed in such a crappy way when new. Is it possible that after installation, the MBTEX shrunk and pulled away from the cosmetic flange of those Focal speakers, thus resulting in the crappiness we see now?

 

[gsxr]

Is it possible that after installation, the MBTEX shrunk and pulled away from the cosmetic flange of those Focal speakers, thus resulting in the crappiness we see now?

That's what it looked like to me.

 

[TimL]

036 Euro headlights have a minor differences vs standard lights. It isn't just the lens. If the lights on the car now are Hella (Bosch would work too), yes, you could modify the standard light and clip on the correct 036 lenses.

Hi Dave, not sure I get it. I thought that you can stick the correct lenses on whatever set of lights. Depo would be a sacrilege, agreed, but if you have a set of bosch, hella or magneti marelli, this works. Since this car has euro lenses on it, the car should have the correct lights for a 500E lens swap, no? What am I missing?

 

[gsxr]

Since this car has euro lenses on it, the car should have the correct lights for a 500E lens swap, no? What am I missing?

Basically yes, if you take whatever brand of Euro lights are on there now, swap on 036 lenses, AND remove the shield over the H3 bulb, they will be functionally equivalent to proper 036 headlights. This assumes the donor Euro lights are RHT (right-hand traffic) and the lenses are as well.

Since only Hella produced 036 Euro lights, using Hella standard 124 Euro lights would be somewhat more technically correct - same mod required, removing the shield over the H3 bulb.

The modification of removing the shield over the H3 bulb is critical to get the high beams working as Mercedes intended (and, 036 lenses of course).

 

[gerryvz]

True 036 headlamps are going to have chromed plastic behind the lenses though — not just chromed reflectors.

 

[gsxr]

True 036 headlamps are going to have chromed plastic behind the lenses though — not just chromed reflectors.

Yes, this will be on the lenses though, not on the headlamp housing/bucket.

 

[maw1124]

Those JLaa amps and Focal speakers are good stuff. Installation could have been neater, but it's all fixable.

Yes of course. I guess you’ll need new door cards, or just new vinyl. Oddly enough I think I have those same crossovers in my M3 for the front door mid-tweet. As I’m looking at the rest of the car, it’s a good 20 footer...

maw

 

[gerryvz]

Yes, this will be on the lenses though, not on the headlamp housing/bucket.

Correct.

 

[gerryvz]

I’m predicting something around $17k for this, if that, certainly if the Maine (now CT) car went for under $20k.

I'm going to amend my earlier statement, and say that this car won't pass $20K (plus any applicable fees). I think the $18-20K range is right where this car will land.

 

[maw1124]

If somebody wants to unload a great example at a "fire sale" price, I'm all ears. Cash in hand.

From your mouth (keyboard) to God’s ears... this will be that firesale price, courtesy of CV19. Buy now or forever hold your peace.

My new prediction is this one may not even see $15k, which would be a screaming deal, just like the Maine (now CT) car. The reason is simple, and you’ve hinted at it. Generally the only people buying these right now are looking for museum pieces, and this ain’t that. In my mind, it creates a perfect buying opportunity for someone like you Ace10. Museum pieces are already stashed away and will remain so, until at least the end of this year.

And I don’t think I’ve been far off on market values for these since I started looking for mine in 2009.

maw

 

[maw1124]

That's what it looked like to me.

Question on this, sort of off topic, but I didn’t know that such a thing as MBTex stretching existed, so please forgive me. I’ve been seeing something like this around my door handles, vinyl peeking out from around the bezel. Can the vinyl be simply warmed and stretched, and the door handle re-installed on an R&R basis? CV19 has my guys hurting for business so I think I’m going to have them pick up the cars and punch list some items. I’m wondering if I can add this to the 500E list, along with mirror boots, door sills, and whatever else I’ve accumulated at the house for this car.

Thanks in advance,

maw

 

[gerryvz]

So far, this car is not off to a very exciting start.

I think the "slammed" look from the H&Rs appeals to only a sub-set of buyers.

I remember it back in the day (2004-2006 time frame). I saw it a number of times. It was one of the nicer examples I'd seen up to that time. Looks like it's seen some wear and tear in the years since. I hope the seller details perhaps a bit more of the work that has been done over the years to maintain the car.

Now up to $8,000, with three days left to go.

The seller posted a cold start video:

 

[gerryvz]

Question on this, sort of off topic, but I didn’t know that such a thing as MBTex stretching existed, so please forgive me. I’ve been seeing something like this around my door handles, vinyl peeking out from around the bezel. Can the vinyl be simply warmed and stretched, and the door handle re-installed on an R&R basis? CV19 has my guys hurting for business so I think I’m going to have them pick up the cars and punch list some items. I’m wondering if I can add this to the 500E list, along with mirror boots, door sills, and whatever else I’ve accumulated at the house for this car.

Thanks in advance,

maw

I've seen more MBTex shrinking, rather than stretching, @maw1124. I think with heat and cold cycles, the material tends to constrict/contract. This is the problem you very very commonly see with the door pockets peeling upward. From the factory, the MBTex covering the pockets is wrapped around the top of the pocket frame, and there is significant material that is glued down below the lip. And over time and cycles, the material contracts, and the glue gives way. This causes the peeling.

When fixing this problem, basically the Tex has to be heated up and slowly stretched back over the lip, and glued down with very strong adhesive. It very definitely stretches with gentle heat, like from a hair dryer or heat gun (not too close!!).

 

[gsxr]

Ditto what Gerry said. But if there is not adequate surface area to use adhesive (like the upper edge of the door pocket), there's no way to attach the stretched-into-place material.

Best solution would be to replace the entire panel with one in better condition. All 1990-up sedans with leather interior share the same door panel, so there are plenty of donors out there (availability varies by color, of course). Haven't checked but I assume new are long NLA.

 

[Jlaa]

Ditto what Gerry said. But if there is not adequate surface area to use adhesive (like the upper edge of the door pocket), there's no way to attach the stretched-into-place material.

Best solution would be to replace the entire panel with one in better condition. All 1990-up sedans with leather interior share the same door panel, so there are plenty of donors out there (availability varies by color, of course). Haven't checked but I assume new are long NLA.

Or Jehnert for the win.

 

[TimL]

Ditto what Gerry said. But if there is not adequate surface area to use adhesive (like the upper edge of the door pocket), there's no way to attach the stretched-into-place material.

Best solution would be to replace the entire panel with one in better condition. All 1990-up sedans with leather interior share the same door panel, so there are plenty of donors out there (availability varies by color, of course). Haven't checked but I assume new are long NLA.

Passenger sides have gone NLA about 12 months ago. Driver side has been NLA muvh longer. Problem is that you have to find a door pocket that has the sound system, so getting them out there through ebay or something has unfortunately proven to be somewhat difficult.

 

[gsxr]

Passenger sides have gone NLA about 12 months ago. Driver side has been NLA muvh longer. Problem is that you have to find a door pocket that has the sound system, so getting them out there through ebay or something has unfortunately proven to be somewhat difficult.

Door pocket will be the same on all 1990-up sedans & wagons in USA, if you only need the pocket.

The complete door panel from 90-up is different between leather and Tex.

 

[maw1124]

Door pocket will be the same on all 1990-up sedans & wagons in USA, if you only need the pocket.

The complete door panel from 90-up is different between leather and Tex.

I understood you were talking about the complete panel from the onset. Thanks, GSXR.

maw

 

[northNH]

I think with heat and cold cycles, the material tends to constrict/contract. This is the problem you very very commonly see with the door pockets peeling upward.

Problem is that you have to find a door pocket that has the sound system, so getting them out there through ebay or something has unfortunately proven to be somewhat difficult

My black/gray 400 parts car spent ~20 years/90K well-cared-for miles in CT before spending the last 8 years with a bunch of other rebuildable 124s parked uncovered facing east out in the open in northern Vermont. Winter temps down to -25°, summers mid-90° at most.

All 4 door panels, gray leather/Sound System/burl, are virtually perfect...NO vinyl (pockets included) or leather peeling or fading, burl pieces entirely unchecked and unscratched, speakers functional...Will look like a 25K mile set, with proper attention.

So what gives with the heat/cold/sunlight/climate factors on interior materials?
While perhaps not as puzzling as the distrib insulator story, it seems like there are some unknown factor(s) at play here, at least to me.

BTW still had whooshing sound when I removed the fuel filler cap!

 

[maw1124]

Probably humidity... mine is a FL car that hasn’t spent much time outside, ever. Map pockets aren’t peeling, mirror boots are still fine although not new looking, and generally the interior looks great. Yet there’s a little something under the edge of that passenger door handle bezel, almost like I can wedge it back under. I’m sure that’s no biggie, I was just curious when someone said MB Tex shrinkage. I’m sure it’ll get sorted out just fine. But “humidity” would be the additive to temperature cycling, if you asked me.

Cheers,

maw

 

[gsxr]

...I was just curious when someone said MB Tex shrinkage.

 

[gerryvz]

Now up to $8,000, with three days left to go.

The seller posted a cold start video:

$10,000 ..... one day to go. Will we get $15K? $17K? Is $20K a hallucination induced by fumes from the BaT crack-pipe?

 

[gerryvz]

$11,800 .... 12 hours to go. Pretty tame peanut gallery, other than a couple of lunks getting into it because one lunk called the car “pretty” —

I think $15-16k (and a likely RNM) is in the cards for this one.

Too bad, because back in the day this car was stellar. I saw it a number of times up close and personal.

 

[Melville]

I think $15-16k (and a likely RNM) is in the cards for this one.

it's no reserve so someone might be getting a car at a bargain price. Too bad for the seller that his auction is happening now.

 

[gerryvz]

it's no reserve so someone might be getting a car at a bargain price. Too bad for the seller that his auction is happening now.

You're right -- it's in the thread title!
The No Reserve may actually help the price a bit, given the number of bids on the car up to now (six hours left).

Thanks for the catch, @Melville!

 

[TerryA]

$11,800 .... 12 hours to go. Pretty tame peanut gallery, other than a couple of lunks getting into it because one lunk called the car “pretty” —

I think $15-16k (and a likely RNM) is in the cards for this one.

Too bad, because back in the day this car was stellar. I saw it a number of times up close and personal.

You didn’t note that the other guy (lunk 2) said that he bought one used and got it bored out to 900 HP by Gintani. This must be the BaT crack pipe talking.

Lunk 2 sounds like he found the “Miracle Tech” that can finally get the 900HP that AMG or BRABUS couldn’t find.

Quick, somebody get Gintani’s phone number!!

 

[gerryvz]

Quick, somebody get Gintani’s phone number!!

It does seem like something that should be pursued....

Gintani l Automotive Performance Tuning

Gintani is an automotive production house performing all of our own research and development, testing, tuning, and installation.

www.gintani.com

Mercedes Benz

www.gintani.com

 

[ace10]

Tuners and the idiots who pay them.

 

[gerryvz]

This auction has to have one of the best BaT pissing contests I've seen. All because someone complimented the car's looks. Go figure.