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FOR SALE 1995 E60 AMG, Silver/Grey, 82kkm, $0.25M (Switzerland)

I got these. No AMG remarks. Is it still a five liter?
 

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Looks like engine # 10,417 in those photos, assuming they are from the car for sale.
Datacard says the engine should be # 10,341 assuming the VIN provided is accurate.

Odd there is no AMG stamp in the usual location. More investigation would be prudent before dropping a quarter-mil on this one.

:pc1:
 
For a factory E60 the Engine number must match the datacard and production labels, especially for a very late production example.. If not then either its not the 6L block or it has been replaced.. but then an retrofit AMG 6L block has an AMG Engine number stamped on the back.
I hope its just a mixup.
 
weide1 said:
And seller previously sent me some extra photos. I mentioned him the missing of AMG remarks. He is now also wondering if the engine is a 5 or a 6 liter.
Click to expand...
Time to measure stroke through a spark plug hole. Someone will be unhappy if it's a 5L.

Are those AMG decals in the proper location for a factory build? I'm used to seeing them on the valve cover, not the radiator support.

:duck:
 
weide1 said:
I got these. No AMG remarks. Is it still a five liter?
Click to expand...

Request pictures from the driver side back end of the engine. There should be the AMG number stamped in. That's just the normal number in the front end next to the water pump what is shown on thise pics. As well they are very oddly taken...
Also remember not always the same engine found it's way back into the same car after modification.
 
You'd think that for the princely sum of 255,000 the seller would have already checked and confirmed the authenticity of the engine etc....
 
Forgot something: A photo of the block casting number will help, located on the driver side behind the engine mount bracket. Engines this late in production will be open-deck blocks if they are 5.0L. If the block casting number indicates open-deck... it ain't a 6.0L engine.

:pc1:
 

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Skip the AMG request and ask for the block casting number to start with. If that engine serial is accurate (see post #54), it would be an open-deck block, which cannot be a 6L engine. The block casting number will show if it's open deck or closed deck (see post #61).

If the block is closed-deck based on the casting number (regardless of serial number stamped), it COULD be a 6L and further investigation is needed. Measuring stroke via spark plug hole is the quick way to check for the long-stroke crank. Next is pulling a valve cover to look for AMG camshafts.

:pc1:
 
Dave, the engine number is 119 974 12 010 417 ε 10.0. How can you tell it's open or closed deck?
I checked these two pdf. But didn't quite get it yet.
 

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You cannot tell anything definitively from the engine number. AMG can build a 6L engine using a new, closed-deck block and stamp the original engine number on the new block.

This is why you need a photo of the casting number on the block in the car, as shown in post #61 above. Engine # 10,417 should be open-deck, and if the casting number confirms this, it isn't a 6L engine.

The PDF files you show are correct; they contain the casting numbers to match with a picture from the side of the block in the car for sale.

:tumble:
 
Yes. But engine number 119 974 12 010 417 ε 10.0 is from the images i got from Adrian Iten of the company that sells the car, as can be seen in post #53. Which is from the engine that is in the car.
 
weide1 said:
Yes. But engine number 119 974 12 010 417 ε 10.0 is from the images i got from Adrian Iten of the company that sells the car, as can be seen in post #53. Which is from the engine that is in the car.
Click to expand...

That is rather concerning. Factory E60 AMG should have a matching number Engine.
If replaced (Warranty or such) it must be a closed deck block with and AMG number
 
weide1 said:
What do these tell us?
Click to expand...
Those photos indicate it MAY actually be a 6L engine. The casting number is for a closed-deck block, and engine #10,417 should have been open-deck. This still doesn't explain the serial number not matching; or the missing AMG stamps, but it may be 6L displacement.

Next check would be measuring stroke via spark plug hole (10mm longer is easy to confirm), and pulling the valve covers to see if they are proper AMG 6L cams.

:3gears:
 
gsxr said:
.......
Next check would be measuring stroke via spark plug hole (10mm longer is easy to confirm), and pulling the valve covers to see if they are proper AMG 6L cams.
....
Click to expand...

I believe it should have stamp on cam that looks like this:
 

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Most E500E engines are closed-deck, I'd say roughly up until the beginning or well into the 1994 model year production (roughly August/Sept. 1993 until early 1994). Some time in early calendar year 1994, the blocks were changed to open-deck.

We have never been able to find out what the "break point" is exactly, for the transition from closed-deck to open-deck block castings.

GSXR is assuming -- and very likely correctly -- that based on the serial number of 10,417 on that M119 engine (out of 10,479 cars produced....plus extra engines made along the way) that this is a very very late production E500 M119 engine, and it is safe to assume that it will be an open-deck design.

It is important to note that engine numbers are not sequential with VIN/FIN numbers of the cars produced. Meaning that an E500E may have an engine serial number that is dozens, or even one-hundred-plus numbers off of its VIN/FIN. My car, for example was produced in September/October of 1993 -- a pretty darned early 1994 model. My VIN is WDB1240361C052693, which was the 8,363rd .036 produced out of the total production number of 10,479. Yet, my engine serial number is 11997412008486 ... or approximately 123 numbers ahead of my VIN/FIN.

By the way, at #8486, I believe my engine is a closed-deck block.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Gerry
 
Last edited:
weide1 said:
How can you tell engine number 119 974 12 010 417 is open-deck?
Click to expand...
Page 2 of the PDF document back in post #67, from the FSM, shows that this engine serial is well past the cutoff for the switch to open-deck blocks (it was #8822 for the 119.974, this engine is #10,417).

Also, the photo in post #72 shows the numbers stamped into the block are not neatly aligned, which to me looks like they were hand-stamped onto a new/replacement block; i.e. may not be the original #10,417 as it left the factory.
 
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