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944 S2 and Porsche enthusiasts…

Duh_Vinci

E500E **Meister**
Member
Cheers!

After searching for a while for a solid and well priced 996 (unsuccessfully), I think I am at the point where I will be purchasing 944S2. 1989

I found one, local car, hundred 109k miles, last owner for 15 years.

Timing belt and water pump and pulley’s have been replaced within the last 20,000 miles. It’s a solid honest original car with few imperfections and few interior pieces that need addressing. But this is what I’m not familiar with:

it’s a 16 valve car, and it’s not driven often. It has a slight ticking almost like the old siroccos or another 16 valve VW’s? Is this normal? The slight ticking is my only concern, as all the minor issues I can certainly address.

It drives great it pulls great it needs tires and bunch of other little things but the price is right.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated.


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EDIT: Added some pictures from original posting (not many details), but in person, good very very presentable original driver quality car...
 
Last edited:
No idea on price but I do quite like the 944. I had a 944 Turbo for a while which I bought after it had an engine fire (If you see how the fuel lines come in, you'll understand). I rewired the injection harness and replaced the intake manifold and it was as good as new. The thing was a blast to drive. I decided to sell because I already had a 928 and elected to keep it instead. I should have kept the 944.
 
@alabbasi - my brother used to own one, while back, 1986 I believe, very easy to work on, I helped him to restore, so taking thing apart and back together was really easy, simple, very simple car (rock solid in terms of handling too)

This one is 1989, 2 owner, $8500 which is very very very fair price for a good driver, 109K miles, red/black. Needs AC compressor, that's basically it. No rear glass delamination, no major squeaks to speak of. Just a solid car.

I'm about to jump on the web to do dome parts pricing, but as I mentioned earlier, the only concern I have is that very minor valve tick, normal or not?

Regards,
D
 
@alabbasi - my brother used to own one, while back, 1986 I believe, very easy to work on, I helped him to restore, so taking thing apart and back together was really easy, simple, very simple car (rock solid in terms of handling too)

This one is 1989, 2 owner, $8500 which is very very very fair price for a good driver, 109K miles, red/black. Needs AC compressor, that's basically it. No rear glass delamination, no major squeaks to speak of. Just a solid car.

I'm about to jump on the web to do dome parts pricing, but as I mentioned earlier, the only concern I have is that very minor valve tick, normal or not?

Regards,
D
944’s have hydraulic lifters so that it likely your ticking noise. I have had success with LiquiMoly lifter additive (on other cars) so you might get away with that, but lifters are probably not the end of the world. I would plan $5K in maint on any 944 minimum. Likely if there is vibration at idle, you need motormounts. Any clunking in the suspension is obvious for lower control arm bushings, but these also have strut bearing that get creaky. Lots of little coolant, vacuum and fuel lines that come and go which is normal for this age of car. 50K mile car just sold on BAT for like mid 20’s so if you are under 10K I think its pretty good buy. Good luck!
 
944’s have hydraulic lifters so that it likely your ticking noise. I have had success with LiquiMoly lifter additive (on other cars) so you might get away with that, but lifters are probably not the end of the world. I would plan $5K in maint on any 944 minimum. Likely if there is vibration at idle, you need motormounts. Any clunking in the suspension is obvious for lower control arm bushings, but these also have strut bearing that get creaky. Lots of little coolant, vacuum and fuel lines that come and go which is normal for this age of car. 50K mile car just sold on BAT for like mid 20’s so if you are under 10K I think its pretty good buy. Good luck!
Good points indeed! I'm expecting the deferred maintenance to be a "norm" for sure, and prepared to tackle what I can and learn what I can for DIY on this car. I did do some reading (Had my eyes dilated this morning, still little a little blurry). Apparently, the minor ticking is normal, coming from injectors on these cars. Alternatively, consider that this car rarely driven, the hydro tappets/lifters may also do the ticky for a while too... and since 2013, it's only been driven 5k miles. Semi-retired owner.

Prices on 944 S2 and 968 have been going up and up, as I've been watching them for about a year. I have not seen a decent 944 S2 for under 15K with average miles for quite some time now. So $8500 with budget of $4-5k to bring it up to par, I'm ok with it. I've always loved the 951 turbo nose and aprons, and this 3L does have that look that I want.

I've just made a commitment to the owner to purchase the car. :jono: Time to learn another car. Fingers crossed, will be mine on Wednesday evening.

Still open for any pointers and suggestions, while I'm off to ebay to search for wheels, trim pieces, and look for the prices of AC compressor, and other maintenance parts etc

Regards,
D
 
Good points indeed! I'm expecting the deferred maintenance to be a "norm" for sure, and prepared to tackle what I can and learn what I can for DIY on this car. I did do some reading (Had my eyes dilated this morning, still little a little blurry). Apparently, the minor ticking is normal, coming from injectors on these cars. Alternatively, consider that this car rarely driven, the hydro tappets/lifters may also do the ticky for a while too... and since 2013, it's only been driven 5k miles. Semi-retired owner.

Prices on 944 S2 and 968 have been going up and up, as I've been watching them for about a year. I have not seen a decent 944 S2 for under 15K with average miles for quite some time now. So $8500 with budget of $4-5k to bring it up to par, I'm ok with it. I've always loved the 951 turbo nose and aprons, and this 3L does have that look that I want.

I've just made a commitment to the owner to purchase the car. :jono: Time to learn another car. Fingers crossed, will be mine on Wednesday evening.

Still open for any pointers and suggestions, while I'm off to ebay to search for wheels, trim pieces, and look for the prices of AC compressor, and other maintenance parts etc

Regards,
D
Congrats! 944‘s are such sweet driving cars, you’ll really enjoy it. And agree the 16V big motor cars are rarer and interesting, I think you have plenty of room to own, enjoy and preserve value.
 
Good points indeed! I'm expecting the deferred maintenance to be a "norm" for sure, and prepared to tackle what I can and learn what I can for DIY on this car. I did do some reading (Had my eyes dilated this morning, still little a little blurry). Apparently, the minor ticking is normal, coming from injectors on these cars. Alternatively, consider that this car rarely driven, the hydro tappets/lifters may also do the ticky for a while too... and since 2013, it's only been driven 5k miles. Semi-retired owner.

Prices on 944 S2 and 968 have been going up and up, as I've been watching them for about a year. I have not seen a decent 944 S2 for under 15K with average miles for quite some time now. So $8500 with budget of $4-5k to bring it up to par, I'm ok with it. I've always loved the 951 turbo nose and aprons, and this 3L does have that look that I want.

I've just made a commitment to the owner to purchase the car. :jono: Time to learn another car. Fingers crossed, will be mine on Wednesday evening.

Still open for any pointers and suggestions, while I'm off to ebay to search for wheels, trim pieces, and look for the prices of AC compressor, and other maintenance parts etc

Regards,
D
@Duh_Vinci ! Excellent.

If you would like it, I can give you a copy of the ooooold Porsche PET (Porsche equivalent of the MB EPC). I have it on CDROM and it requires Windows 2000 to run. You would run the .iso in a Windows 2000 virtual machine. Hours and Hours of entertainment.......

Just message me.

BTW see info (I think) on the AC compressor.

1642272991145.png

1642273199913.png
 
I also owned a 951 and agree with your desirability of those and the S2s. I also remember the ticking which I believe is the injectors. I never had any complaints. They are a blast to drive. A true sports car. Hopefully yours has a limited slip diff. I believe all the turbos had it. Not sure of the S2s.

I like them more than the 928s, which look a bit dated inside to me. Apples and oranges though. One's a touring car, the other a sports car.
The only nit to pick is the A/C robs some torque from the 4 cylinder just at tip in. The 16-valve motor may alleviate that.

The sport seats are wonderful if you can get them.
 
@Duh_Vinci ! Excellent.

If you would like it, I can give you a copy of the ooooold Porsche PET (Porsche equivalent of the MB EPC). I have it on CDROM and it requires Windows 2000 to run. You would run the .iso in a Windows 2000 virtual machine. Hours and Hours of entertainment.......

Just message me.

BTW see info (I think) on the AC compressor.

View attachment 142271

View attachment 142272
WOW!!! That was actually one of my next question, parts database and related search!!! I do have a question, I'm computer user, but basically it is where my knowledge stops. I do have a very old PC, but it is says Windows XP, so I assume it is not the same as 2000? And if not, does it mean that the only way to run this PET is to get a used laptop with 2000 loaded?

Indeed appreciate any info on this topic!!!

I also owned a 951 and agree with your desirability of those and the S2s. I also remember the ticking which I believe is the injectors. I never had any complaints. They are a blast to drive. A true sports car. Hopefully yours has a limited slip diff. I believe all the turbos had it. Not sure of the S2s.

I like them more than the 928s, which look a bit dated inside to me. Apples and oranges though. One's a touring car, the other a sports car.
The only nit to pick is the A/C robs some torque from the 4 cylinder just at tip in. The 16-valve motor may alleviate that.

The sport seats are wonderful if you can get them.
The sport seats are wonderful indeed, but very very rare for sure. I remember my brother was looking for few years for them during his ownership of 944 while back to n/a...

I almost forgot how solid 944 cars are, while driving this S2 today, no power monster by no means, but what a fun it was to drive it at 8am while most people are still asleep!

I don't know if it has LSD or not, I also can't find any VIN card/database online that could offer a build sheet as LASTIV.COM offers, I found the designation of the codes for these cars. Any pointers to VIN decoder for Porsche?

-----locking differential(limited slip)--- 220
---- porsche- locking differential---221
---- version for begium---225

And as to the little ticky, the more I read the more I believe is what I was hearing, as you can imagine, M119 is whisper quiet at idle, so it was just a bit "not what I'm use to", but will get use to. I will still do a liquimoly flush and new fluids and start driving.

AC at the moment is inop... owner said it was converted, lasted for few months and compressor stopped working.. I don't mind not having AC on in a sporty car, but will indeed fix it for a good measure, for the times when I would want to use it.

And a bonus, the car does have the "desirable" factory speaker boxed door card pockets, so I hope for a good quality sound system (simple, but good): Components in the front, coaxials in the rear and a small subwoofer in the spare tire pocket with a compact 6ch class D amp


Regards,
D
 
...I can give you a copy of the ooooold Porsche PET (Porsche equivalent of the MB EPC). I have it on CDROM and it requires Windows 2000 to run. You would run the .iso in a Windows 2000 virtual machine. Hours and Hours of entertainment.......
That reminds me of the old VW ETKA part catalog, used for my long-gone Dashers and A2 Jetta GLI's.

:gsxrepc:
 
WOW!!! That was actually one of my next question, parts database and related search!!! I do have a question, I'm computer user, but basically it is where my knowledge stops. I do have a very old PC, but it is says Windows XP, so I assume it is not the same as 2000? And if not, does it mean that the only way to run this PET is to get a used laptop with 2000 loaded?

Indeed appreciate any info on this topic!!!
Windows XP is more modern than Windows 2000. Need to go more archaic.
Your choices are to either find a machine that is running Windows 2000 --- OR --- run a "machine within your current machine" by installing a FREE piece of software that lets you run virtual machines.
Basically do this: https://www.500eboard.co/forums/thr...rmation-on-buying-installing.3724/#post-52756

Except when you get to step 3, you get like PorschePET.ova instead of the WISEPEC 2015 OVA.ova.

The sport seats are wonderful indeed, but very very rare for sure. I remember my brother was looking for few years for them during his ownership of 944 while back to n/a...
If you want sport seats, you can contact Lart. Sport seats with new leather are about $6K. He upholsters them himself


I almost forgot how solid 944 cars are, while driving this S2 today, no power monster by no means, but what a fun it was to drive it at 8am while most people are still asleep!

I don't know if it has LSD or not, I also can't find any VIN card/database online that could offer a build sheet as LASTIV.COM offers, I found the designation of the codes for these cars. Any pointers to VIN decoder for Porsche?
You have to look at the options sticker (rear hatch area of the 944) 944 Option Codes

OptionsCodeLocation.png


-----locking differential(limited slip)--- 220
---- porsche- locking differential---221
---- version for begium---225

And as to the little ticky, the more I read the more I believe is what I was hearing, as you can imagine, M119 is whisper quiet at idle, so it was just a bit "not what I'm use to", but will get use to. I will still do a liquimoly flush and new fluids and start driving.
Only if you go apeshit - you can add a conventional friction plate LSD or a torque biasing differential from Matt Monson. (Guard Transmission). He makes these.



AC at the moment is inop... owner said it was converted, lasted for few months and compressor stopped working.. I don't mind not having AC on in a sporty car, but will indeed fix it for a good measure, for the times when I would want to use it.

And a bonus, the car does have the "desirable" factory speaker boxed door card pockets, so I hope for a good quality sound system (simple, but good): Components in the front, coaxials in the rear and a small subwoofer in the spare tire pocket with a compact 6ch class D amp


Regards,
D
 
Windows XP is more modern than Windows 2000. Need to go more archaic.
Your choices are to either find a machine that is running Windows 2000 --- OR --- run a "machine within your current machine" by installing a FREE piece of software that lets you run virtual machines.
Basically do this: https://www.500eboard.co/forums/thr...rmation-on-buying-installing.3724/#post-52756

Except when you get to step 3, you get like PorschePET.ova instead of the WISEPEC 2015 OVA.ova.


If you want sport seats, you can contact Lart. Sport seats with new leather are about $6K. He upholsters them himself



You have to look at the options sticker (rear hatch area of the 944) 944 Option Codes

View attachment 142276



Only if you go apeshit - you can add a conventional friction plate LSD or a torque biasing differential from Matt Monson. (Guard Transmission). He makes these.

Wow, thank you for wealth of such valuable information! So much to learn!!! And Lart's - very very nice source, thank you very very much! For 2000, I think I will look for a used wiped clean laptop, to use just for that, so I will gladly take you up on the offer as soon I get everything together, appreciate it very very much!
I’m looking for a 944 as well, much like yours condition and price-wise. Should you see any others like it let me know, please!

Dan
Dan, indeed, I still look everywhere daily, if I see anything, will definitely shoot you pm...

Regards,
D
 
$8500 for an S2 at that mileage was a deal 5 years ago, now it’s highway robbery. Good job! If it has 220 and the stereo package you also did great, the base speakers on these cars are fine but without the door pocket speakers it’s hard to find good upgrades for the doors. I always feel like these need spacers on the rears. M030 sways on the rear help. I sold my wrecked S2 to Lart, I’m sure he’s selling parts out of it now lol.

Not sure how hot it is where you’re at but R12 is better if it is, might want to go back to that. The system on these cars was weak to start w and 134a makes it worse, I baked under my glass. The S2 pulled hard to redline but was so torquey in 2nd or 3rd above 2k rpm. Throw an msds exhaust on there. Can’t wait to hear more!
 
Parts catalogue - no need for any special software etc. - just google "Porsche 944 s2 PET". It is a pdf version. I can see that Jlaa mentioned already Lart, very good source of 944 parts.
Oh and for $8.5k I would buy it in a heartbeat...
 
For AC related problems google for Griffith AC - P car specialist

Not sure how hot it is where you’re at but R12 is better if it is, might want to go back to that. The system on these cars was weak to start w and 134a makes it worse, I baked under my glass.
I have to disagree, this is not old 911SC system, properly converted to R134a will throw out ice cubes from the vents, even with stock condenser.
 
$8500 for an S2 at that mileage was a deal 5 years ago, now it’s highway robbery. Good job! If it has 220 and the stereo package you also did great, the base speakers on these cars are fine but without the door pocket speakers it’s hard to find good upgrades for the doors. I always feel like these need spacers on the rears. M030 sways on the rear help. I sold my wrecked S2 to Lart, I’m sure he’s selling parts out of it now lol.

Not sure how hot it is where you’re at but R12 is better if it is, might want to go back to that. The system on these cars was weak to start w and 134a makes it worse, I baked under my glass. The S2 pulled hard to redline but was so torquey in 2nd or 3rd above 2k rpm. Throw an msds exhaust on there. Can’t wait to hear more!
Thanks for the tips, appreciate it indeed! I've always had a soft spot for these flared bodies since I was a teenager. Yes, the prices have been climbing up and up, I have also considered 968, but those are even harder to find in good overall condition in the coupe and the prices $$$

Parts catalogue - no need for any special software etc. - just google "Porsche 944 s2 PET". It is a pdf version. I can see that Jlaa mentioned already Lart, very good source of 944 parts.
Oh and for $8.5k I would buy it in a heartbeat...
Downloaded PDF for the time being, not as much fun as interactive, but 423 pages of pars https://www.porsche.com/all/media/pdf/originalparts/en/E_944_91_KATALOG.pdf will do until I find a decent 2000 laptop

Griffith AC - P car specialist
Thank you, this is amazing source!!! Kits are well priced, like it!!! Porsche 924s, 944, 951, 968 AC Compressors & Kits – Griffiths

Congratulations on your new project!
I still have the 924/944 in mind for a possible future project, so I will follow your work with interest and Joy.
Have fun with it!
Thank you, and that's the plan! I really like that most of these 80-90's cars are still a mechanical pieces, something I'm willing to work on and willing to learn. Modern computer driven complicated marvels - not ready for those yet, unless it's a lease.

Regards,
D
 
Throw an msds exhaust on there.
"...our newly designed Gen2 merged-collector 944 exhaust header. We mfg.each merged collector and mandrel formed header by hand. This type of collector is a better hp/tq. achiever than a standard, or tri-y collector. Also new on the Gen2 is our one piece laser formed cylinder head flange..."

and based on their data:

"Dyno tests have shown a minimum 14% horsepower gain time after time. Our 928 Porsche headers showed an astonishing 23% horsepower gain... on a stock engine!!"

For 14% HP bump and the quality of their work, $500 is not bad at all!

Attached Images-gen2-msds-944-exhaust-headers-20150918_125255-1-1.jpg
 
@darek_u i thought the condenser was always a weak point on conversions? Mine was weak, that’s for sure.
If compressor is 100% efficient, new dryer, new orings all around - it should not be a problem. There are modern style condensers available, parallel flow type, but I never felt like I need one... Maybe in 40 deg heat and high humidity... On the other hand they are weak points, yes, after 30 years of use it is hard to find one that doesn't leak. I had to replace mine with new one after 2 unsuccessful repair attempts.

Duh_Vinci if AC system stopped working few months after conversion I would say 2 reasons are most probable:
1. Gas is escaping through leak - R12 orings are not compatible with new ester oil used in R134a systems, they like to dissolve and leak. This is not uncommon but on the other hand some people don't replace orings and report no problems for years. I would say it is leaking somewhere. BTW PAG46 oil should be used for conversion. I can send you technical bulletin that Porsche issued out for AC conversion.
2. System was not flushed properly, new ester oil was mixed with old mineral one and compressor didn't survive that...
 
"...our newly designed Gen2 merged-collector 944 exhaust header. We mfg.each merged collector and mandrel formed header by hand. This type of collector is a better hp/tq. achiever than a standard, or tri-y collector. Also new on the Gen2 is our one piece laser formed cylinder head flange..."

and based on their data:

"Dyno tests have shown a minimum 14% horsepower gain time after time. Our 928 Porsche headers showed an astonishing 23% horsepower gain... on a stock engine!!"

For 14% HP bump and the quality of their work, $500 is not bad at all!

Attached ImagesView attachment 142286
I'm curious how they were able to create that header without the accordion joint that was necessary on the 951, as is also used on our M119s
 
...if AC system stopped working few months after conversion I would say 2 reasons are most probable:
1. Gas is escaping through leak - R12 orings are not compatible with new ester oil used in R134a systems, they like to dissolve and leak. This is not uncommon but on the other hand some people don't replace orings and report no problems for years. I would say it is leaking somewhere. BTW PAG46 oil should be used for conversion. I can send you technical bulletin that Porsche issued out for AC conversion.
2. System was not flushed properly, new ester oil was mixed with old mineral one and compressor didn't survive that...
Thanks for the info, much appreciate it! It that is what the owner told me, few months after the conversion. Once I get the car home, and it's actually in my possession, I will gladly take you up on the offer for those technical bulletins! I do want to sort it out eventually.

For now, the organizing the pile of links, files and bookmarks related to anything 944. Learning progress of something new...

Regards,
D
 
$8500 for an S2 at that mileage was a deal 5 years ago, now it’s highway robbery
Meant to show you this one, lost the link (found it just now)... local car, 1990 944 S2, TMU, "Branded" title, repaint in different tones, fading peeling, wrong molding, wrong wheels, even with spacer wrong offset, I saw it on the way home 6 months ago, with big sign "NOT FOR SALE", well, it is now...

$25,000, no original steering wheel and did not pass VA inspection... $25,000??? :brudda:


1642376456631.png

1990 Porsche 944 S2 for sale in Locust Grove, VA - CARFAX and for the record, does not look as good in the real life as the pictures in the ad!
 
Meant to show you this one, lost the link (found it just now)... local car, 1990 944 S2, TMU, "Branded" title, repaint in different tones, fading peeling, wrong molding, wrong wheels, even with spacer wrong offset, I saw it on the way home 6 months ago, with big sign "NOT FOR SALE", well, it is now...

$25,000, no original steering wheel and did not pass VA inspection... $25,000??? :brudda:


View attachment 142290

1990 Porsche 944 S2 for sale in Locust Grove, VA - CARFAX and for the record, does not look as good in the real life as the pictures in the ad!
Dreaming. Looked at something similar here on Craigslist. They think because stuff is selling on BAT for $25-$30K that’s what its worth but it has 3x the miles and lots of “mods” that make it questionable. Not to mention the salvage title.
 
Thanks for the info, much appreciate it! It that is what the owner told me, few months after the conversion. Once I get the car home, and it's actually in my possession, I will gladly take you up on the offer for those technical bulletins! I do want to sort it out eventually.

For now, the organizing the pile of links, files and bookmarks related to anything 944. Learning progress of something new...

Regards,
D
If it has the original hoses they're the likely culprit. AC hoses of this vintage were not barrier style hoses, and as a result, refrigerant will literally leak out of them at the molecular level and it gets worse as they age. Very common problem, I usually have the hoses rebuilt by a local hydraulic hose shop with barrier material to keep the system sealed tight.

And thanks for keeping an eye out for me on a 944. I'm hoping to find something much like what you found.

Dan
 
Great thread! Been debating between a 944 Turbo and a 968.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Either one will be really good, but obviously the engine character will be the big difference. I’d stick with the 88.5 and later turbo to get the most power and that turbo will be peakier, but more exciting when the turbo comes on. The big 4 in the 968 is torquey and linear, so you kinda need to decide what suits you better. Styling wise that is subjective, but the round pop ups on a 968 really make it unique. I also think the 968 is more rare and ultimately maybe the one to hold / gain value better. Either way, this chassis is about handling and these are sweet cars to drive, you won’t go wrong with either. Good luck!
 
Great thread! Been debating between a 944 Turbo and a 968.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Indeed it is, learned more about these particular cars and the resources available in the last few days from the forum members here, much appreciate it!

Tomorrow is the day, excited! Have all the logistics in place, ready for the pick up, even made the room and my parent's garage to put "Red Sonja" away from the upcoming snow. Already have a list of use parts that I need/want to restore some things lined up, in the cart, ready to click "Buy Now" as soon as I get her home... And another project begins!

Regards,
D
 
Indeed it is, learned more about these particular cars and the resources available in the last few days from the forum members here, much appreciate it!

Tomorrow is the day, excited! Have all the logistics in place, ready for the pick up, even made the room and my parent's garage to put "Red Sonja" away from the upcoming snow. Already have a list of use parts that I need/want to restore some things lined up, in the cart, ready to click "Buy Now" as soon as I get her home... And another project begins!

Regards,
D
If you do Facebook at all, there's a great 944 group I found called "The No Snob 944 Porsche Club" that is a great resource. Most FB auto enthusiast groups are nasty, toxic places, or so I've found, but this one is really pleasant. I've been lurking in it for a few months and have learned a great deal and found the members to be very nice and accommodating.

And of course, pictures or it never happened. :jono:

Dan
 
If you do Facebook at all, there's a great 944 group I found called "The No Snob 944 Porsche Club" that is a great resource. Most FB auto enthusiast groups are nasty, toxic places, or so I've found, but this one is really pleasant. I've been lurking in it for a few months and have learned a great deal and found the members to be very nice and accommodating.
Signed up, look forward to learn all there is to learn about these cars!

And of course, pictures or it never happened. :jono:
She is here!

P1190017-L.jpg

We brought her home. Had to take it to my parent's house for temporary storage.

IMG_1043-L.jpg

Drove home just fine, needs few things indeed, but at $8500 I believe in today's market, in a "driver quality" car - it is priced just right. I'm going to make a full list of things to work on, and will start sometime next week... but for the time being - I'm quite happy with the purchase!

Regards,
D
 

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