ASR and ABS lights after driving a while

[BornwestUSA]

I had an indy shop pull codes with a MB SDS once the lights stayed on, it took 35 miles of driving to get them to come on.

The code was: 005 Max. temperature in module box exceeded M2/2

The tech found the rubber hose from the cooling fan to the module box was disconnected from the fan, the fan was blowing air at the time he found it. He put the hose back on and cleared the codes.

6 miles later, the lights came back on, then on the next start stayed off. I drove 14 miles, put the car in reverse to park it at home, the lights came on.

What code reader can I get to DIY this, my understanding is you can only read codes when the lights are actually on. True?

 

[gerryvz]

That max temp in CAN box is a normal code, a totally junk code and it means nothing and should be ignored. Pretty much all cars get it, and it is inconsequential.

 

[BornwestUSA]

That max temp in CAN box is a normal code, a totally junk code and it means nothing and should be ignored. Pretty much all cars get it, and it is inconsequential.

Thanks for sharing your experience with that... odd that the cooling hose was disconnected from the module box when I had that code.

other codes on the report under "ASR" are: 013 Brake light switch S9/1 and 030 CAN: No reception from EFP N4/1.

I just need a way to read the current codes as the light is on again and any new codes should indicate the real problem as all codes were cleared with the MB tool.

 

[gerryvz]

What code reader can I get to DIY this, my understanding is you can only read codes when the lights are actually on. True?

There are numerous threads here on the forum, along with documents that help interpret all codes. You can buy a blink code reader off of eBay or make one yourself for $15 in Radio Shack parts.

Basically a code reader will allow you to test all systems, although one of the modules (computers) has blink codes that are accessible with the reader, and in addition more specialized three-digit codes that are only accessed via an SDS or a handheld aftermarket code reader.

For 90% of all situations, the eBay/homemade blink code reader will work perfectly.

Any times warning light goes on (and MANY times when no warning light is displayed) a code is stored in the computer for later access. VERY DEFINITELY if your ABS and ASR lamps are coming on, the system is storing codes.

There are many causes of these lights going on, but the most common one is the failure of the neutral safety switxh. Less frequently you will see codes about the brake light switch (under the dash) which is not nearly the “wear and tear” part that the neutral safety switch is. You will also see codes referencing communication interruptions between CAN computers and such — often these codes are not that accurate (though I would check your battery terminals in the trunk for corrosion, as the battery directly powers all of the computer modules via a line coming directly off the + battery post). Again, ASR/ABS situations are EXTREMELY well/documented on this forum, and an hour or two searching would find you. Wealth of information on the topic. We have an excellent and very high performance search engine capability that is very flexible and also very fast.

The thread on basic diagnostics along with all information you will need is located here, in the “sticky” threads at the top.

De-Coding

Information pertaining to diagnostic codes, how to obtain and dechiper them, and how to remedy them.

www.500eboard.co

Please use this as a starting point and then begin your quest for more specific information on your ASR/ABS situation. The forum is organized in sections such that much of the information you are seeking will probably reaide in the brakes/drivetrain area, and diagnosis/de-coding sub-forum.

 

[BornwestUSA]

Thanks for those links, based on the report I have I am going to replace the brake light switch asap, getting a break out box from china will take a few months and might come in handy on my next problem. One mechanic I spoke with had mentioned the brake light switch as a possible fix, the tech that generated my report said no.... because the switch is cheap, I'll start there.

 

[gerryvz]

Slow down! Slow down! You don't need a breakout box. You just need the basic reader with Radio Shack parts.

There is no sense throwing parts at this until you really diagnose it. I recommend you do some searching about the topic, and the parts involved. The codes don't always pinpoint the correct part, and the brake switch is one that is quite often fingered by codes when it is actually good. As mentioned, the neutral safety switch on the side of the transmission is MUCH MORE OFTEN the cause of the issue, because it is a "wear" part that is moved back and forth every time you touch the gear lever.

The brake switch is also a modest PITA to replace. I've had codes that fingered it many times over the years, yet it was never the culprit. I'm still on my original one, though I've had a replacement ready and waiting for 18 years for the day it does go out.

If you could provide more info and context about the issue, that would be helpful in having the experts here help you diagnose your problem. It is ALL on here -- many many people have experienced these issues with ABS/ASR, and written about it. For example, does your car go into "limp home" mode when the lights come on? Please describe exactly what you are seeing.

Many if not most shops out there (even MB specialists) are not that familiar with the 500E/E500, because so few of them were made, and will often steer you down wrong paths (i.e. throwing parts at a situation based on codes, without a proper true diagnosis borne of knowledge of these cars and their quirks and characteristics). This is a specialist forum specifically for these cars, and thus pretty much any issue that is possible on these cars, has been covered here over the past 13 years that this forum has been online.

Not to mention, there are a number of noted experts here who are very active and would be willing to help. And quite a number of long-term owners and experts in your area in SoCal. We just need info, context, and exact description of what's happening to help you.

The very very very first piece of information that we need, is information on whether your upper wiring harness has been replaced. You can check this in about 3 minutes, using the information here:

HOW-TO: Determining the age of your engine wiring harness | "HOW-TO" Tutorial Articles

See attached photos. The manufacturing date of the harness will be on the tag. If the date is 1996 or newer, the harness is not original. The new replacement harnesses made from at least 1998-up (possibly earlier) have improved insulation and do not fail after a few years like the originals did...

www.500eboard.co

Please report back on what you find. That will give us a baseline and eliminiate (if it's been replaced) this common factor with a lot of running issues.

 

[BornwestUSA]

I meant a 4mm pin blink code reader and the adapter or break out box to go from the 38 pin connector in the Module box to 4mm female sockets so the blink reader can connect. Both items total less than $100. I don't see a MB OBD1 scan tool advertised with a 38 pin connector anywhere.

Nothing changes when the lights come on except the cruise control will not engage. Brakes work fine, Car runs fine.

This car has been sitting at least 3 years, It got a new battery and oil change one year ago, but until now has not been driven.

This week it passed California smog testing (dynamometer test) and got a new set of Michelins to replace like new flat spotted contis.

I will inspect for a wiring harness, and see if the owner has a file of repairs on the vehicle.

 

[gsxr]

The breakout box makes it easier to use the blink code reader with 4mm pins. This will let you check fault codes for all 8 systems. Use the PDF document in the De-Coding section that Gerry linked in post #4 above to translate the code numbers.

For complete diagnostics with live data, you need Star Diagnostics System (SDS), a Chines SDS C4 kit may run ~$500 plus a laptop. Probably more than you want to invest but it will work on all new MB's as well. If you are interested in this, search the forum for more info, but make absolutely sure the SDS kit you buy supports HHT-Win which is required for the OBD-1 cars like the 500E.

Question - does the car run & drive normally with the ABS+ASR lights on? Or does accelerator pedal travel become abnormal with the lights on, where the first ~2 inches of pedal travel has no effect on engine RPM?

 

[BornwestUSA]

Question - does the car run & drive normally with the ABS+ASR lights on? Or does accelerator pedal travel become abnormal with the lights on, where the first ~2 inches of pedal travel has no effect on engine RPM?

It drives normally with the exception of no cruise control engagement, here again is the code report from yesterday:

 

[gerryvz]

Yep, I see the neutral safety switch code in the first section of the report (starter lock-out & reversing lamp switch), code 096.

Why didn't the tech highlight it, and instead highlighted the stop lamp/brake light switch? The neutral safety switch is very often the cause of the ASR/ABS lights going on, and sometimes the car going into limp home mode.

I had this same exact problem, a couple of years ago, and it was my NSS.

 

[gsxr]

You'll need to clear codes and see which codes return consistently after driving - all recurring codes need to be corrected.

If not going into limp mode, it MIGHT be the brake/stop switch. The NSS is definitely suspect but that is recently NLA and could be tricky to source, or repair (the disassembly process was recently documented on the forum, if needed).

 

[BornwestUSA]

IMC and others list a neutral safety switch, Original? 000 545 62 06

Is that the part for the code? It shows as in stock for immediate shipping.

Part Details | German Auto Supply

www.germanautosupply.com

 

[Jlaa]

IMC and others list a neutral safety switch, Original? 000 545 62 06

Is that the part for the code? It shows as in stock for immediate shipping.

Be careful and try to avoid aftermarket NSSs. If you can find a genuine NSS for sale, buy it pronto. Those online catalogs I find are rarely accurate wrt availability.

Read this: FYI - Difference between Genuine VS aftermarket NSS | Transmission and Driveline

Also search ---- so much information is here --- search is your friend. Good luck.

 

[gsxr]

IMC and others list a neutral safety switch, Original? 000 545 62 06

Is that the part for the code? It shows as in stock for immediate shipping.

You may want to call and check... some sites claim the part is in stock, but it really isn't. Their shopping cart indicates they may have 16 in stock, which is true, is fantastic... AFAIK these are NLA pretty much everywhere else.

If actually available you might want to snag that, if your existing NSS is original. Keep in mind the NSS is adjustable and this should be checked as well (and, is critical when installing a replacement).

 

[Jlaa]

This week it passed California smog testing (dynamometer test) and got a new set of Michelins to replace like new flat spotted contis.

Did the ASR/ABS light come on the same time you did the smog test on the dyno?

In the manual published by the CA Bureau of Automotive repair, the E500E is listed as not having a defeatable traction control, and therefore is exempt from dyno testing.

The E500E should be tail pipe tested at idle only. I wonder if running the car with the rear wheels on the dyno (and front wheels not moving) would cause this.

 

[gerryvz]

That's correct. Cars with non-defeatable traction control should NEVER be tested on a dyno for a smog test -- tailpipe sniffer only. All states should have accommodations for this, until/if the car ages out of needing testing (often 25 years old).

 

[gerryvz]

Unfortunately, it's probable that going forward, only aftermarket NSSes will be available, unless there is a "stash" of existing ones that come to market. It will be a hard search to find them, though. Ebay and other sources would be best.

There are a few vendors who say they are carrying them, but this is doubtful -- but worth checking/trying to order. I believe these switches MAY still be being made by the OEM who made them for Mercedes, but the stock seems to have been exhausted from my checks.








In any case, whether the NSS is your issue or not, it's a good idea to have one on hand, because sooner or later they DO and WILL fail.

 

[gerryvz]

Let's get you started on some reading to help research your situation:

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[BornwestUSA]

LOL that's a LOT of reading!

I installed the new oem brake switch today (20 minutes) and found the tandem pump and hose were leaking badly, the power steering reservoir was nearly empty....

I then dropped it off at the mechanics to reseal the Tandem pump and pull codes, He is slammed and won't get to in until next week.

The tandem pump reseal was above my pay grade!

 

[Kyiv]

LOL that's a LOT of reading!

Look, you're either all the way in, or none at all. You've got to make a decision!

 

[gerryvz]

Did the new brake switch extinguish the ASR/ABS lamps?

 

[BornwestUSA]

Did the new brake switch extinguish the ASR/ABS lamps?

The lights are very, very intermittent. I last saw them when I parked it Wednesday. They did not come on at all yesterday. The car will be scanned again next week, as all codes were cleared on Wednesday any codes found should tell the tale..

 

[gerryvz]

You need to drive the car at least 100 miles, if not more, before checking to see what codes return. This will give the car enough time to re-generate any codes that are current/relevant to present issues.

How's the ASR-related reading coming along?

 

[BornwestUSA]

The 100 miles it did not get, but the lights did come on Wednesday 10 miles after the codes were cleared, hopefully that left a code.

Reading is coming along, thanks for asking!

 

[gerryvz]

Yes, there will almost CERTAINLY be one, if not a couple of codes stored, if the lights went on after codes were cleared prior.

 

[BornwestUSA]

New problem. The hose coming out of the Tandem pump in NLA. 124-320-91-53

Starting a search now.....

 

[Jlaa]

New problem. The hose coming out of the Tandem pump in NLA. 124-320-91-53

Starting a search now.....

Finally! Welcome to E500E ownership!

 

[gsxr]

New problem. The hose coming out of the Tandem pump in NLA. 124-320-91-53

Starting a search now.....

124-320-91-53 is the high-pressure hose. It almost NEVER leaks and should never need replacement. If it does, a hydraulic shop can rebuild it. Don't bother trying to source a new one, I think it's been NLA for many years.

The leak points are the low-pressure hoses in the system... short one above the pump, S-shaped from pump pipe to frame rail, and the one at the steering box hidden behind the heat shield.

 

[gerryvz]

Yes… that one along the frame rail uNader the heat shield. I was too much of a wuss to replace it.

 

[BornwestUSA]

Are the 3 return lines just "hose" or do they have fittings at each end? I will have the tech replace all of them.

We are not certain the pressure hose is leaking, it may just be residual oil trapped around the adel clamps that retain it.

 

[gerryvz]

The only one of the lines with fittings is the NLA high pressure hose.

The short hose that connects the PS portion of the power steering pump and the reservoir, and the frame rail hose, are lengths of straight hose with no fittings.

The “S” hose is pre-formed hose, and also does not have fittings; however it does have a piece of corrugated flexible aluminum heat shield around it with cut-outs for the clamps.

It is not fun to get to this “S” hose to replace it, but possible. Same with the frame rail hose — it will make any good tech sweat loudly. I tried for about 10-15 mins to tackle mine for a proactive replacement, but gave up as it wasn’t leaking.

Again, Sir, ALL OF THIS IS WELL DOCUMENTED HERE ON THE FORUM. Forum etiquette and protocol is for people (new and old members) to do research and look things up for themselves before asking questions. It is. inconsiderate of members’ time to ask questions that have been asked previously.

I am not trying to be rude here with my statements. But truly, ALL of this information is here in discussion threads, along with separate HOW-TO tutorials on how to do the fixes.

All you have to do is type in things like “tandem pump” as a title search phrase or type in the MB part numbers and you will find the relevant threads.

Here’s what comes up when you type in the simple phrase “S-hose” — you see the most relevant threads — even the HOW-TO pops up !!!


Please. I implore you to do this. The information is here.

 

[gerryvz]

It is 90+% likely that the leakage at the tandem pump is from the short hose that connects the reservoir and pump. This weeps and eventually leaks with age, and should be replaced. It’s about an hour job. The length of short hose (which differs depending on the brand of pump you have — Vickers or ZF) is specified here in the tandem pump HOW-TO.

With a leaking short hose, it generally weeps fluid onto the top of the tandem pump, which runs down the pump and looks like a pump leak, especially from below.

 

[BornwestUSA]

It's done. MBZ Tech resealed front of tandem pump, replaced hose to reservoir, resealed reservoir and installed a new PS filter.

He checked for codes again after I replaced the brake switch. It had Neutral safety switch and brake switch codes. He cleared the codes and the brake switch code cleared, but the NSS code returned. In live data he could see the "N" position was not registering properly and he found a bent rod? where it looked like the shifter bushing had been replaced? he adjusted the NSS properly, test drove and no codes returned.

I replaced the coolant expansion tank, sensor, cap and hose to reservoir in fender to clear that warning light.

So basically the ASR / ABS lights were caused by a $15. brake light switch.