Breather Hose Mess / More Info

[ninetytwo]

While checking on the engine air filters, I found this fuzzy oily mess. After reading a sticky here, I've learned that this is one of the breather hoses.

The car was serviced last season at 42k miles and this wasn't mentioned to me. I can't imagine it's normal but would this be considered an urgent repair or "put it on the list"? Normal and age related? Or indicator or another issue considering the low-ish miles?

My shop is several weeks out for availability and I'd like to take the car out before then. Would you wait? Straightforward fix for the novice?

I'm guessing these are numbers 137 & 140 on the diagram?

And don't worry; I vacuumed the mess out of the filter housing.

 

[gsxr]

Sadly, that is pretty normal. Especially if the hoses are old. They should be soft rubber, if they feel like plastic, they're due for replacement. Those couple pieces are relatively inexpensive, but if replacing all of them (including the smaller diameter ones on the driver side) it adds up.

BTW, you don't need to unclip the air cleaner top from the two filter pipe inlets. With the box fully assembled, tug upwards at the front to release it from the spring clips at the front of each valve cover, and the whole airbox slides forward, out of the round rubber mounts at the back. 10 seconds to have it off the engine. Only need to unclip everything if replacing filters or detailing the inside of the box...

 

[ninetytwo]

Thank you again. The hoses in question don't feel all that hard but clearly these need replacing. I'll check the others in the diagram (that I can reach). Is replacement as simple as pulling off the old and fitting the new?

That's good to know about the assembled box removal. I took the cover off the inspect the filters but wow, are the rear metal clips annoying!

 

[gsxr]

Replacement of the outer 2 large hoses is relatively simple other than dealing with the spring clamp. But the one that attaches to the bottom of the ETA, that one is miserable. It can be done with the MAF removed and ETA in place but it's probably easier to pull the ETA.

All the smaller hoses on the driver side are easy to R&R, but cost more. All of these need to be OE/dealer only, the aftermarket stuff doesn't last.

 

[ninetytwo]

I was just reading about the one at the bottom of the ETA. I'll check that one next. I'm understanding the importance of knowing these problems areas and checking the engine oneself.

Would you say the car is OK to drive as is? My last parts order took longer than expected.

 

[LWB250]

And be sure you order the seal on the bottom of the air cleaner box. That's one that gets missed regularly. Be sure you don't try and remove the old one until you have the new one on hand, as I almost guarantee you the old one will shatter into many pieces. In some cases you have to break it off of the air cleaner box in bits.

Dan

 

[gsxr]

Would you say the car is OK to drive as is? My last parts order took longer than expected.

Oh yeah, no worries driving the car as-is, with the hoses attached and intact. The minor oil vapor weeping just makes a mess, but doesn't affect engine operation. Don't drive with the hoses broken or disconnected though.

 

[Kyiv]

But the one that attaches to the bottom of the ETA, that one is miserable. It can be done with the MAF removed and ETA in place but it's probably easier to pull the ETA.

Not possible. Just isn't. I know a Norwegian colleague of our claims he did it with ETA in place, but when I did this job 1.5 years ago, there was just no way to get to the clamp to squeeze its ears to release its bite AND pull the hose off. ETA has to come off. Hoping to match his experience I've tried for more than an hour to no avail. Once I removed the ETA and saw what I was trying to reach blindly it was clear that's it's an impossible job with ETA in place. Maybe if one assembles ships in the bottle for a living (even then maybe)



Here is the part # for the seal that Dan is talking about. And his pictures of it:

Gasket, Air Filter, VLRUB 000-094-17-60 | MB OEM Parts

000-094-17-60 - Gasket, Air Filter, VLRUB

www.mboemparts.com

 

[ninetytwo]

@gsxr Thank you once again. Phew! I'm glad to know its ok to drive. Ah, empowerment! I'm learning more and more now that I'm willing to tackle some repairs myself. Much happier this way.

And thank you @LWB250 and @kiev . I was actually wondering about that part. Mine doesn't feel hardened but as an essential piece is a shockingly low OE price, its worth a preventative replacement.

 

[Joncf]

All of these need to be OE/dealer only, the aftermarket stuff doesn't last.

I actually just ordered these, ALL Febi Bilstein. I went out of my way to make sure they were all Febi, except the “Y” connection, since they don’t make it. Some of them had to be special ordered from Latvia.

I know how you feel about them, but their motor mounts have been great so far on my car.. and I’ve heard from multiple Mercedes Repair shop owners, that they’ve never had any issues with any Febi Bilstein parts. You can call me crazy, but I think they produce fairly good quality parts. I’ll be the Guinea pig.. if they do fall apart, I’ll report it here.

I was also happy to see that some of their products are re boxed OE parts, such as their steering dampers. They’re just Stabilus dampers with the FB logo printed on them.

BTW it wasn’t really much cheaper to order the Febi hoses instead of the genuine OE hoses. But if they turn out to be good quality, I might have to start ordering more Febi parts.

 

[gsxr]

Febi manufactures nothing, AFAIK. They are strictly a reboxer. Sometimes they rebox OEM... but sometimes not. And, they have absolutely nothing to do with Bilstein, the suspension manufacturer; they are piggybacking on that name.

Unless you are certain that a particular item is reboxed OEM, you generally want to avoid them. If the PCV hoses are not OEM (will have ground-off Star logo and MB part # if they are OEM)... the non-OEM hoses may swell, soften, and fail much sooner than OEM.

 

[Joncf]

Febi manufactures nothing, AFAIK. They are strictly a reboxer. Sometimes they rebox OEM... but sometimes not. And, they have absolutely nothing to do with Bilstein, the suspension manufacturer; they are piggybacking on that name.

Unless you are certain that a particular item is reboxed OEM, you generally want to avoid them. If the PCV hoses are not OEM (will have ground-off Star logo and MB part # if they are OEM)... the non-OEM hoses may swell, soften, and fail much sooner than OEM.

I’ll definitely let you know how it goes. At least they’re warrantied for two years though.

Just looked on their site.. they have a factory in Ennepetal, Germany where they supposedly manufacture at least some of their own products:

“Ferdinand Bilstein carries over 40,000 different products in its product range – some come from selected partner producers, some from OE-suppliers. In addition, there are numerous proprietary articles: febi products – Made in Ennepetal.”

Production Expertise

Als einer der weltweiten Marktführer für PKW- und NKW-Ersatzteile setzt febi bilstein immer wieder neue Maßstäbe im freien Ersatzteilmarkt.

www.febi.com

 

[Kyiv]

it wasn’t really much cheaper to order the Febi hoses instead of the genuine OE hoses

 

[Joncf]

Yes, but it had to be done.

 

[Kyiv]

Yes, but it had to be done.

I understand circumstances, I do. But whenever the price between OE and aftermarket (unless re-boxed/star ground off) - particularly/especially - is minimal, you don't want, circumstances-depended, save those few $.

 

[Joncf]

I understand circumstances, I do. But whenever the price between OE and aftermarket (unless re-boxed/star ground off) - particularly/especially - is minimal, you don't want, circumstances-depended, save those few $.

That’s not what I meant, it had NOTHING to do with cost. It’s because I felt I really needed to give Febi a chance. I doubt anyone else here would do that, so as I’ve said above, I’ll be the guinea pig.

FB carries MANY parts for our cars, and it would be nice to confirm that they are at least decent quality. I’ve heard of some good experiences with their parts, so I actually have faith in them. I think they’re possibly somewhat underrated.

Also, I had no problem ordering the genuine MB hoses. I was extremely close to doing so. The Febi hoses might have actually been more expensive in total, because I had to order a few from my Latvian source and the rest from Pelican Parts. I told myself the whole set HAD to be Febi Bilstein, so I spent a little more time and possibly money ordering them all, no matter the cost.

 

[nocfn]

Uro reboxed some hoses once and they ground off the Crayola from the side of the hose.

 

[gsxr]

That’s not what I meant, it had NOTHING to do with cost. It’s because I felt I really needed to give Febi a chance. I doubt anyone else here would do that, so as I’ve said above, I’ll be the guinea pig.

It's noble that you are willing to take one for the team and experiment. Ideally you would also document each of the parts / packages with pictures, to see which are OEM, which are not, and how many packages have a COO label (which I thought was legally required in USA).

FB carries MANY parts for our cars, and it would be nice to confirm that they are at least decent quality. I’ve heard of some good experiences with their parts, so I actually have faith in them. I think they’re possibly somewhat underrated.

It's been confirmed over 20+ years and dozens of parts, that they are a 100% gamble. And due to the nature of reboxing, if an OEM part is in the box at one point in time, someone else may find a non-OEM (read: Chinese junk) part in the same box a few months or years later. This is particularly true when the OEM item goes NLA, and the older Febi inventory may be OEM, but newer inventory is not... so for a period of time, people may have mixed results as some warehouses will have older inventory than others.

Also, I had no problem ordering the genuine MB hoses. I was extremely close to doing so. The Febi hoses might have actually been more expensive in total, because I had to order a few from my Latvian source and the rest from Pelican Parts. I told myself the whole set HAD to be Febi Bilstein, so I spent a little more time and possibly money ordering them all, no matter the cost.

The real test here would be monitoring the condition of all the hoses which are NOT OEM. Ideally you will identify those and keep an eye on them over the next few years / XXkmi. The reboxed OEM will perform the same was OE/dealer hoses, as they are identical.




PS: Attached is one of my favorite photos, showing how Febi likes to put "Germany" in their company name, giving the impression to uninformed buyers that the product in the box is made in Germany. This particular item had a COO label proving otherwise. This type of marketing seriously turns me off. Meyle (and ACM?) do the same thing. I buy all of the above as an absolute last resort, or if I know for certain the item is OEM. Even then, the OEM item may be "factory seconds" that were rejected because they did not meet MB standards...

 

[Joncf]

It's noble that you are willing to take one for the team and experiment. Ideally you would also document each of the parts / packages with pictures, to see which are OEM, which are not, and how many packages have a COO label (which I thought was legally required in USA).

I will definitely do this.

It's been confirmed over 20+ years and dozens of parts, that they are a 100% gamble.

Of course, but non OEM parts CAN still possibly be decent quality.

The real test here would be monitoring the condition of all the hoses which are NOT OEM. Ideally you will identify those and keep an eye on them over the next few years / XXkmi. The reboxed OEM will perform the same was OE/dealer hoses, as they are identical.

I'll keep track of this. None of them might actually be OEM, but we'll see.

PS: Attached is one of my favorite photos, showing how Febi likes to put "Germany" in their company name, giving the impression to uninformed buyers that the product in the box is made in Germany. This particular item had a COO label proving otherwise. This type of marketing seriously turns me off. Meyle (and ACM?) do the same thing. I buy all of the above as an absolute last resort, or if I know for certain the item is OEM. Even then, the OEM item may be "factory seconds" that were rejected because they did not meet MB standards...

My motor mount boxes looked exactly like that, with the "Made in China" sticker. They've been great so far, although it hasn't been many years or miles yet.

 

[gsxr]

Of course, but non OEM parts CAN still possibly be decent quality.

I agree 100%! In general the brand name of the non-OEM part is a good indicator of potential quality. It's just that Febi has a relatively low percentage of wins in this category.

Also, some non-OEM parts are actually made by the manufacturer, not reboxed items of unknown origin. For example Elring or Coreteco/CFW radial seals (while Bruss is often the OEM for the dealer seals). And those mfr's are OEM for other MB parts. Febi is in a different category as they are not OEM for any Mercedes parts that I know of.

Again, I'm not saying all Febi parts are bad, just that you need to be careful if using any of their parts that are clearly non-OEM.

 

[Joncf]

I agree 100%! In general the brand name of the non-OEM part is a good indicator of potential quality. It's just that Febi has a relatively low percentage of wins in this category.

Also, some non-OEM parts are actually made by the manufacturer, not reboxed items of unknown origin. For example Elring or Coreteco/CFW radial seals (while Bruss is often the OEM for the dealer seals). And those mfr's are OEM for other MB parts. Febi is in a different category as they are not OEM for any Mercedes parts that I know of.

Again, I'm not saying all Febi parts are bad, just that you need to be careful if using any of their parts that are clearly non-OEM.

I do understand it’s a complete gamble, but that’s one reason I wanted to do this experiment.

Most know they aren’t an OE supplier, but that hasn’t stopped Uncle Kent from using AND selling Febi parts without hesitation. He has no real problems to report. Thanks for the heads up though, I’ll keep this all in mind.

 

[LWB250]

You mean Dave's Uncle Kent?

 

[Joncf]

You mean Dave's Uncle Kent?

View attachment 130568

Correct.

 

[Joncf]

I’ve received the first shipment today. One is German made, and the rest are made in Turkey. They all seem to be good quality.

About half of them had numbers that were rubbed/ground off.

 

[gsxr]

About half of them had numbers that were rubbed/ground off.

Interesting - can you get some pics of the ground-off numbers when you have a chance?

I'm seeing more and more rubber items made in Turkey.

 

[Joncf]

Interesting - can you get some pics of the ground-off numbers when you have a chance?

I'm seeing more and more rubber items made in Turkey.

The one “Made in Germany” seems identical in quality, material and smell, to the Turkish ones.

 

[gsxr]

Wish we had new OE to put next to each. The snapshot below looks like they ground off an aftermarket marking, not OE marking. The OE hoses do not have any white painted numbers/letters. I also can't recall offhand if the OE hoses have the "rough edges" at the seams. Wonder if I have any laying around my shop for comparison. I can tell you the OE hoses have no distinctive odor.

This appears that Febi is repackaging an aftermarket item:

 

[Joncf]

Wish we had new OE to put next to each. The snapshot below looks like they ground off an aftermarket marking, not OE marking. The OE hoses do not have any white painted numbers/letters. I also can't recall offhand if the OE hoses have the "rough edges" at the seams. Wonder if I have any laying around my shop for comparison. I can tell you the OE hoses have no distinctive odor.

This appears that Febi is repackaging an aftermarket item:

View attachment 130591

You’re probably 100% correct.

They don’t have a strong odor, they just smell very slightly like new tires. The “Y” connector is genuine MB and it smells identical to those. The seams on it do seem to be a bit cleaner though.

Either way, they seem to be decent & I’m happy they’re not Chinese.

 

[Kyiv]

Turkey of today is a different animal from Turkey of 1990s and prior. They are as good if not better than a few eastern european states where many of German and French vehicle are made

 

[gerryvz]

You can look at the factory hoses I got for my Top-End Rebuild job (in the Project Journals sub-forum) and you can see close-ups of the new MB hoses. The factory hoses look better quality and better finished than the FEBI hoses pictured.

I am sure they will likely last for a while. My question is whether they will last for the same amount of time as the MB hoses.

I last replaced my PCV hoses when I lived in Portland, around 2005. Then I replaced them last year as part of my project. The factory hoses were still completely serviceable and still had SOME flexibility in them, though nowhere near as much as the new factory hoses and connectors that I replaced them with. However, I did save the old hoses because they were still good enough to save, even after 15 years and around 75,000 miles.

I doubt if FEBI hoses would last that length of time/mileage.

You can see photos here.

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