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Contemplating the Cabriolets

So I really regret not taking my SL500 to Italy, but I could only ship 1 vehicle free of charge here. Now that it's sitting with a friend and not in my name, it will be very hard to import it. I am also limited to buying a car here. If from EU, has to be registered in my name from the country it came from. If from Italy, has to be originally been sold in Italy. As you can imagine, most V8's are into the 5 digits (where in USA they are dime a dozen and 2k-3k can get you a decent one).

That does open up some lower engine options. I particularly like the 124 coupes despite not having V8. Here is an example of a nice one with service history and the old Italian tags.

https://www.automobile.it/castelfranco-sotto-mercedes-benz-300-ce-cat-coupe/132627092#

Notice that sweet manual, too :) A bit pricey, though.

1.jpg3.jpg2.jpg

Right now I am pending selling my SL500 (for less than that 300CE) since I probably won't be able to import it and I may be overseas for quiet some time. Not to mention the 1000+ Euro per year road tax on secondary vehicles in Italy...
 

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How about this cabriolet? Really cool.

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/d/cumming-1961-mercedes-benz-190sl/6787645052.html
1961 Mercedes Benz 190SL - $115,000 (Atlanta, GA)

1961 Mercedes Benz 190SL
Loving Restored by a Father for A Daughter. No Expense Spared for Dependability and Safety. Original Delivery Documentation as well as Full Documentation / Pictures of Entire Restoration Process. All Records as Well. Call Tim 404-432-5091.



jftu105

Seeing this 190SL makes me kinda fell sorry for myself. I owned one for about 10 years and paid next to nothing for it. For about 1/2 of the time with me it was being worked on one way or another. Mine was a 1957 and it looked exactly like this one. Red w/ Black Leather. It had the small window hard top. All new interior plus paint. I re-built the engine and had the trans re-built. New drive shaft and differential. It still had the Solex carbs which were PITA to keep tuned.

It was a nice car and from 10' away it looked as good as this one but it was a mainly a driver for my wife at the time. I sold it in 1988 for about 20% of what this owner is asking. It was on an plane the next day and flown to Japan.

I didn't even let the three Japanese guys that came to look at it drive it. Only one of them spoke broken English. I took him around the block a few times. We dickered about the price but they finally gave me what I wanted. So around 8:00 PM that same evening they came back with CASH!!! All brand new $100.00 bills in $1K packs. At that time it was a lot of dough and made my wife and I very nervous to have it in the house. So we filled out a deposit slip and took it the bank in brown paper bag wrap and dropped it in the night deposit box.

Anyway the 190SL is nice to look at but pretty much a dog to drive. My wife loved it but it was always having some kind of problem so off it went.

I sometimes wonder what ever happened to it but no regrets.
 
https://germancarsforsaleblog.com/2002-mercedes-benz-sl600-silver-arrow-with-5400-miles/

SL600 SA for $109,990. BAS/ESP and ABS lights included.

proxy.php
 
Serious question... Has Smoke Silver ever looked better?

Is it the lighting? There are cheap-o T12 fluorescent fixtures in the space.

1995 Mercedes-Benz E-Class E320 CABRIOLET

VIN = WDBEA66E3SC266296
88000 miles
$13900 Ask

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1995-Merce...IOLET-GORGEOUS-COLORS-VERY-CLEAN/372612766544

01320.jpg


The listing has a ton of pics. Smoke over Cream is not one of my faves, but the paint looks fantastic to me.
 
That is purely the lighting & camera. I had this exact car for a number of years (year, color combo......not the exact same VIN of course.....but with ~60K less miles).
In real life this color is really more bronze looking. I never understood why MB called it smoke silver. I would never describe it as such. It was always a more brownish/bronze color. The color eventually grew on me, but in retrospect I would have taken a black/black or blue/black.
Great car (I don't know about this specific VIN)
 
Because it looks like brilliant???
[emoji48]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It certainly looks more Brilliant/Iridium to me than Smoke under these conditions. Maybe the key to owning a car in that color is to never take it out into natural light. :-P
 
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That is purely the lighting & camera. I had this exact car for a number of years (year, color combo......not the exact same VIN of course.....but with ~60K less miles).
In real life this color is really more bronze looking. I never understood why MB called it smoke silver. I would never describe it as such. It was always a more brownish/bronze color. The color eventually grew on me, but in retrospect I would have taken a black/black or blue/black.
Great car (I don't know about this specific VIN)


So it's all Smoke n Mirrors?
 
That is purely the lighting & camera. I had this exact car for a number of years (year, color combo......not the exact same VIN of course.....but with ~60K less miles).
In real life this color is really more bronze looking. I never understood why MB called it smoke silver. I would never describe it as such. It was always a more brownish/bronze color. The color eventually grew on me, but in retrospect I would have taken a black/black or blue/black.
Great car (I don't know about this specific VIN)

In fact, BMW had a similar color in the late 80s and they called it "Bronzit".
 
Cuz, ya know.... it's a TWO granny car.

https://www.mbca.org/classified-ad/2000-CLK-430-Cabriolet--7385765

2000 CLK 430 Cabriolet

Year: 2000
Model: CLK 430
Exterior Color: Firemist Red with Black Top
Interior Color: Grey Leather
Body: Convertible
Mileage: 22,250
Contact: Harold Gallagher
State: California
Phone:Cell 510-381-4668
Email: haroldgallagher@gmail.com


Owned by 2 Grandmothers, Full Provenance, Mint Condition, Dealer Serviced, 9.9 Point Car, AMG Wheels, drives like new, always Garaged, located in Huntington Beach, CA. Like New

$14,500


2000 CLK 430.JPG
 
Another M120-powered R129 on ebay.

Ultra low miles. AMG styling. No Pano. Pictures are crap quality, at least on my monitor.

2001 Mercedes-Benz SL-Class SL600
VIN= WDBFA76F31F198307
15000 miles
$21500 BIN. Auction ends 3/17

 

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This one is kinda interesting story to go with 1,186 miles (1992 500SL):

"...According to the insurance company claim, the vehicle was stolen from the dealership in November 1991. The vehicle was recovered in late 2018 and was found that the vehicle had been stored indoors the entire time and only was driven 1,186 miles... "

https://www.copart.com/lot/39041698...rDUs4jDNibmVToysLh77hIritUxyQmwH91GFcKVuwQn6c story

Regards,
D
 
This one is kinda interesting story to go with 1,186 miles (1992 500SL):

"...According to the insurance company claim, the vehicle was stolen from the dealership in November 1991. The vehicle was recovered in late 2018 and was found that the vehicle had been stored indoors the entire time and only was driven 1,186 miles... "

https://www.copart.com/lot/39041698...rDUs4jDNibmVToysLh77hIritUxyQmwH91GFcKVuwQn6c story

Regards,
D

Seems odd to me that a car which has been mothballed for decades would have the wrong trunk lid badge.
 
Seems odd to me that a car which has been mothballed for decades would have the wrong trunk lid badge.
Good point, didn't even noticed at first... And I can only imagine the amount of work/maintenance to be done after all the years of "storage"
 
OK, I am seriously contemplating a cabriolet. Locally, one turns up and the seller asks for $3600, firm (I doubt it).

Here is the craigslist listing,
https://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/d/cary-1995-mercedes-benz-e320-cabriolet/6842976181.html

VIN = WDBEA66E7SC264938

The seller is only 5 miles away and I went over this afternoon to check it out. Here is what I found:

1. Mechanically, the car is in good shape.
2. Some dings and some paint blemish at the trunk cover.
3. The driver side strut mount vibration damper, see image, is badly cracked. It is so fragile and I can lift it easily.
4. The engien runs smoothly with quiet idling, not much idling shudder even at D.
5. Transmission fluid is brown. The seller only drove 12K in the last 14 years. The fluid was last replaced in 2008. When shifting from R to D, there is big clunk. A fluid change may improve it but it could be something terrible to come. It drives fine and shifts fine. I only went up to 60 on country road because the car has no liscence plate.

6. The front suspension needs replacement. The rear is marginal. Both should be replaced.
7. The differential mounts are shot.
8. Lower control arm bushings in good shape.
9. The front rotors and pads need replacement.
10. Harness has been replaced.
11. Head gasket was replaced.
12. Throttle control body dated 1995 and should be replaced.
13. Power antenna works but needs the rubber seal thing.
14. No rust. The exhaust system looks fine.
15. Engine mounts were replaced. Don't know about the transmission mount but idling is smooth.
16. It is a bit sluggish. Probably will improve with a new O2 sensor and a fresh transmission fluid.
17. All cooling hoses look fine.
18. Wrong battery, needs replacement
19. Tires are 10 years old although the treads are deep. Need replacement.
20. Bumpers, both front and back, have impact cracks.

I can handle all of the above except if there is serious issue with transmission. Please advise.

Now, the bad parts which concerns me:

1. Both front seats are in bad shape and the leather cracks badly.
2. The top in bad shape and needs replacement.
3. Most rubber seal around the top are not in good shape. The car was in garage but left outside in the last one or two months and has to endure several raining days. As a result, the seat belt is wet and under the carpets, it is wet as well.
4. The seat belt presenter does not work.
5. Three of the hydraulic rams for the top leak. The seller rebuilt a few of them but those tough to remove are not rebuilt yet. The top operates with new fluid but will leak out after a few operations.
6. Other interior parts are fine. Power windows work but need some lubrication.

At $3600 (possibly $3000 if all 15 peopel responded to the listing do not make offer), I wonder how much it would take to get the top to work properly and seal properly. I don't see how to source all the rubber seal. The driver side suspension mount scares me because that thing is $800 if you can find it.

Finally, I don't like the color but I never get to choose the color of any car I have owned. All used cars.
The seller is probably the third owner. I previous owner bought it in 2003 and sold it to him in 2004. It was 168,000 miles when he bought it and he only put 12k miles over 15 years.

Suggestions and comments, please. Thanks for the autocheck record. It confirms that the seller is the third owner. The car was leased in its first three years. So, he could be the fourth owner.

Jftu105
 

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Well, it is a bargain priced, but as you mentioned above, it has needs, LOTS of needs!

Hydraulic cylinders: all should be rebuild at the same time to do it right imo. Full service on those (if you remove them) is $500 for this car from https://www.tophydraulics.com/mercedes-benz/44-full-set-w124.html If you do it yourself, quality seals are about $150.

Soft top anywhere from $200 ebay special to $500 from https://www.germanautotops.com/merc...-e320-92-95-black-german-re-use-factory-glass

If you on the budget, and not making this a show car, $300 will get you both front leather skins https://www.lseat.com/products/1991-1995-mercedes-e320-custom-real-leather-seat-covers-front.html

Transmission mount is easy diy...

Bumpers need respray, trunk appears to be faded at the top surface (unless its a morning dew, but I doubt it)

My biggest concern is the water in this car, you can tell that its full of it, rear glass is "sweating" from the inside, rear floors under the mats - looks wet and moldy...

Dunno... tough call...

Regards,
D
 
I think for the effort it would take to make it a nice car you could find a better car. That being said if you're not ready to throw 10k to 15k at a car right now it could be a project. I agree on the color. Not my favorite.
 
Yes, the raining days when it was parked outside really dampened my enthusiastism. I did tell the seller to remove the carpet and under them, a layer of moisture, or water. The seal belt was molded and I had to wipe it dry before driving. I really hate it when a convertible owner does not pay attention to the top.

Mechanically it is sound except the strut mount and the potential transmission issue. But can the car be sealed properly ever?

Thanks for all the input.

jftu105
 
My two cents -- spend $10-12K and get a much better and cared-for car. It will still have needs, but nothing like mildew and the can of worms that this car has. For $15K you can get a stunning example in an excellent color combo.
 
I'm not familiar with the cabrio strut mounts, but I believe the cracking you are concerned about is actually on the vibration damper, not the strut mount itself (which is located below the damper).

:scratchchin:
 
Yes, I realize that it is a vibration damper now. If it is just for vibration damping, some glue can extend its life. I just read this article

"adequate stiffening of the body alone required the redesign of 1000 parts. Each Cabriolet needed a total of more than 130 kilograms of additional sheet metal to structurally compensate for the 28 kilograms lost from the Coupé roof and to meet the safety standards that applied to the Saloons, Estates and Coupés of the series. Body vibrations, a system-related weak point of open cars, were eliminated by four vibration absorbers fitted in the left shock absorber strut, the roof frame and the side boot recesses."

This particular car shakes very little, appearling to be structurally sound.

If I buy it, it would be a way to save a cabriolet from being ruined. It would be a project car, not a collector's item.

I will let other buyers to have their chances. Once they all drop out, I will have the bargaining power.

jftu105
 
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This one has AT LEAST ten grand more value baked into it than the uber-needy smoke silver example from earlier this week, IMO.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Mercedes-Benz-E-Class-E320-CABRIOLET/233169779577

VIN = WDBEA66E0RC072822

1994 Mercedes-Benz E-Class E320 CABRIOLET
Miles 75000
Ask $12,500 OBO

Clean Title . 1 Minor Accidents. Great Gas Mileage. Smooth Ride.
Very Well Maintained. Garage Kept. Very Good Paint.
Interior Leather, Carpets, Wood etc is 9.5/10.
Triple Black, A Real Head Turner.
I purchased the car 3/2013 from Mercedes Benz of Athens, Georgia. The car was Very Well Maintained by Mercedes before I purchased it and I continued to have all service needs addressed at Mercedes Benz of Clear Lake, TX
Extensive repairs including:
Time related maintenance items during my 5 year ownership ALL BY MB Clear Lake:
Front and Rear Shocks.
Front Harmonic Dampener
Radiator,Thermostat and Hoses
Head gasket, Lower Pan and Rear Main Seal
TBA & MAF Sensor
AC Repair (Evaporator Core,Receiver Dryer/Expansion Valve,Vacuum Pods etc.)
EVERYTHING WORKS PROPERLY


Judging by the Autocheck report, she has clearly gotten around, but the pics look good, the list of work done is impressive and the current owner isn't a flipper or abuser. Price seems reasonable for a triple black A124. Need to dig into the accident, though.
 

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VIN = WDBEA66E0RC072822

... the pics look good, the list of work done is impressive and the current owner isn't a flipper or abuser. Price seems reasonable for a triple black A124. Need to dig into the accident, though.
The seller is a forum member who still owns a 500E, AFAIK. Looks like a good deal. As discussed previously, the only factory "triple black" on 124 chassis was 009 Sapphire Black which came with body-color bumpers & cladding. This cabrio is 040 and originally would have had Alto Gray lowers originally. Looks better now in monochrome. The C36 steering wheel is a nice bonus.

:pc1:
 


Interesting because it just went through BaT, and supposedly sold.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1995-mercedes-benz-e320-cabriolet-38/

So there are three explanations.... flipper, scam or BaT sale didn't transact.

Different pics than the BaT listing, and the GA plates are gone in the CL ad. So it's probably not a scam

I'm going with #1. Owner would be in it for just under $15,500. And is probably skipping the Title.
 
My 2 cents is: get an R129.

While I love the look of the the W124 wagons and sedans, personally I'm not a big fan of the looks of the coupe and cab. And there's no question the R129 is a looker. It's also far more modern than the W113 or R107, especially in terms of rollover protection.
 
The $3600 cabriolet on craigslist which I checked out last Sunday was sold. I guess that I did not have the chance to lowball it. I have no regret for missing it.

jftu105
 
It's going to be KE-Jet on an M103 engine. A full 40 less HP than a 1993-1995 W124, which is significant.

That said, KE is pretty easy to diagnose and fix, it's just old school. But it is reliable, and it works.
 
For $700 I don't think you can go too wrong, particularly if the cosmetics are all there and the mechanicals look clean.

A 103 coupe isn't really going to be worth less than a 104 coupe -- a 124 coupe IMHO is pretty much a 124 coupe, and the value of it is determined by the cosmetics, mechanicals and mileage. I certainly don't think you'd LOSE money on it, and it should appreciate (MB coupes traditionally do appreciate, particularly when held for a long time). It could be a very nice daily driver.

Desirable or valuable? I think you'd do better with a good 126 S-Class coupe (560SEC) than a 124 coupe. I'd say overall a 124 coupe is definitely going to be more desirable than an equivalent 124 sedan. But unless you wanted to hang onto it for the next 10-20 years, I don't see a lot of appreciation for it.
 
I have a Benz with an M103 engine. Easy to work on and the engine has some pep, despite being 30 years old. When you open the hood and compare the space for the M103 to an M119.... or even the M104 you will laugh at the difference. I've always thought the body lines of the w124 coupes were the best MB made.
 
Is it worth the effort? I mean is it a desirable and valuable car? Thanks.
Only if YOU consider it desirable. If you're considering a flip... plan on losing money. Probably worth a look, but based on zero photos and the seller's description, I'd have low expectations.
 

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