My 94 E500 is experiencing a mis-fire issues that when the accelerator is pressed, the engine "stumbles" or misfires. I cannot drive the car as it sits. Can anyone recommend a mechanic in the Dallas area? I know a few general auto mechanics but hope to find a specialist. I don't have any significant tools and my code reader equipment is in storage. Any referrals would be much appreciated. Thanks, Don
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Dallas Area Mechanic for 94 E500 Engine Misfiring
- Thread starter MBchap
- Start date
Louden Motorcars
11454 Reeder Rd
Dallas, TX 75229
(972) 241-6326
www.loudenmotorcars.com
https://www.yelp.com/biz/louden-motorcar-services-dallas-2
Good luck!
Cheers,
Gerry
11454 Reeder Rd
Dallas, TX 75229
(972) 241-6326
www.loudenmotorcars.com
https://www.yelp.com/biz/louden-motorcar-services-dallas-2
Good luck!
Cheers,
Gerry
Hey guys, after about 10 days of sitting at the shop, I finally received an estimate for repair as follows:
Fault codes are present for Throttle Actuator, Fuel Shut OffSignal from Control Module and Air/Fuel Mixture.
Customer requested we remove the distributor caps and inspect
for any moisture and markings. We remove the distributor caps
and inspect the rotors and contact points. There was a very
small amount of moisture and the contact points had normal
wear markings. We dried the area, cleaned the contact points,
reinstalled the distributor caps and retested for issues. The
problem is still present.
We performed the necessary tests to determine a cause of
problem. Tests indicate a faulty throttle actuator and defective
Mass Air Flow Sensor. The potentiometer inside the throttle
actuator is bad and the signal from the air flow sensor is out of
range. The conflicting information is causing a fuel shut off
signal from the control module. Recommend replacing bad
throttle actutor and air flow sensor.
Line Total 240.00
2 Hours Labor 240.00
Parts 0.00
Sublets 0.00
Replace throttle actuator. Install new gasket.
Part Number Description QTY Each Total
000 141 79 25 Throttle Actuator 1 2740.00 2740.00
119 141 12 80 Throttle Body Gasket 1 2.83 2.83
Line Total 3102.83
3 Hours Labor 360.00
Parts 2742.83
Sublets 0.00
Replace mass air sensor. Install new boot.
Part Number Description QTY Each Total
000 094 01 48 - 80 Air Mass Meter 1 441.60 441.60
119 141 01 67 Air Flow Meter Boot 1 24.46 24.46
Line Total 466.06
0 Hours Labor 0.00
Parts 466.06
V.I.N. #
SI Date
WDBEA36E4RC074748
Does the diagnosis seem reasonable? Interesting in that a MB refurbished throttle body is $750 with a 3 year warranty and I see them as low as $200. Thanks
Fault codes are present for Throttle Actuator, Fuel Shut OffSignal from Control Module and Air/Fuel Mixture.
Customer requested we remove the distributor caps and inspect
for any moisture and markings. We remove the distributor caps
and inspect the rotors and contact points. There was a very
small amount of moisture and the contact points had normal
wear markings. We dried the area, cleaned the contact points,
reinstalled the distributor caps and retested for issues. The
problem is still present.
We performed the necessary tests to determine a cause of
problem. Tests indicate a faulty throttle actuator and defective
Mass Air Flow Sensor. The potentiometer inside the throttle
actuator is bad and the signal from the air flow sensor is out of
range. The conflicting information is causing a fuel shut off
signal from the control module. Recommend replacing bad
throttle actutor and air flow sensor.
Line Total 240.00
2 Hours Labor 240.00
Parts 0.00
Sublets 0.00
Replace throttle actuator. Install new gasket.
Part Number Description QTY Each Total
000 141 79 25 Throttle Actuator 1 2740.00 2740.00
119 141 12 80 Throttle Body Gasket 1 2.83 2.83
Line Total 3102.83
3 Hours Labor 360.00
Parts 2742.83
Sublets 0.00
Replace mass air sensor. Install new boot.
Part Number Description QTY Each Total
000 094 01 48 - 80 Air Mass Meter 1 441.60 441.60
119 141 01 67 Air Flow Meter Boot 1 24.46 24.46
Line Total 466.06
0 Hours Labor 0.00
Parts 466.06
V.I.N. #
SI Date
WDBEA36E4RC074748
Does the diagnosis seem reasonable? Interesting in that a MB refurbished throttle body is $750 with a 3 year warranty and I see them as low as $200. Thanks
To me it does, shop markup is huge on MB parts. This is all DIY stuff and whichever way you go, you are looking at other things like hoses that will most likely break due to brittleness from heat and age. MB charges a small fortune to get rebuilt parts on these things. Member Alabassi has a shop in Dallas, he is an enthusiast and may be able to help out as well with parts you acquire. Check with him, but that shop is charging a normal amount of book time and expected component costs.
Bad ETA's do not cause misfires. Bad ETA's cause limp mode and throttle issues. Sure, there may be error codes stored, but they may not be recent and could be totally unrelated to the misfire. I seriously question if the ETA really is defective or needs replacement. If the potentiometer reading actually is faulty, you'd have limp mode (ASR light on, abnormal pedal travel). If you had limp mode - ok, the ETA may be defective.
A defective MAF could, possibly, cause a misfire or poor acceleration. However, this could be verified via live data on a digital scanner before forking over $500 for a reman MAF (which, last I checked, was NLA everywhere). This diagnosis may be correct but after reading the claim about the ETA, I'd seriously consider a second opinion. I'd also see if you can find any place that actually has a reman MAF in stock, unless they recently became available again at the dealer?
For pricing... that's full MB retail on a new ETA, and 3 hours labor is reasonable for the ETA+MAF combined. This is pretty common for most indy shops, they pay wholesale and charge the customer retail, it's how they turn a profit. Sure, we can get the parts cheaper elsewhere but I'm assuming if you were willing to DIY this, the car wouldn't be at a shop. You could ask them to source the Beckmann ETA instead of new as it would save you at least a grand, more if they don't mark it up. You'll not find properly refurb'd ETA's for $200, btw. Lowest I've seen is the fellow who will rebuild yours for $300 plus shipping both ways. You could gamble on a used one with late datecode but there won't be any warranty.
UPDATE: Here is a link to the info with the place that rebuilt Dan's (aka LWB250) ETA successfully :
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w12...500/2953305-400e-asr-issues.html#post17256690
A defective MAF could, possibly, cause a misfire or poor acceleration. However, this could be verified via live data on a digital scanner before forking over $500 for a reman MAF (which, last I checked, was NLA everywhere). This diagnosis may be correct but after reading the claim about the ETA, I'd seriously consider a second opinion. I'd also see if you can find any place that actually has a reman MAF in stock, unless they recently became available again at the dealer?
For pricing... that's full MB retail on a new ETA, and 3 hours labor is reasonable for the ETA+MAF combined. This is pretty common for most indy shops, they pay wholesale and charge the customer retail, it's how they turn a profit. Sure, we can get the parts cheaper elsewhere but I'm assuming if you were willing to DIY this, the car wouldn't be at a shop. You could ask them to source the Beckmann ETA instead of new as it would save you at least a grand, more if they don't mark it up. You'll not find properly refurb'd ETA's for $200, btw. Lowest I've seen is the fellow who will rebuild yours for $300 plus shipping both ways. You could gamble on a used one with late datecode but there won't be any warranty.
UPDATE: Here is a link to the info with the place that rebuilt Dan's (aka LWB250) ETA successfully :
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w12...500/2953305-400e-asr-issues.html#post17256690
I would not recommend this repair shop to anyone. They have been jerking me around for 3 1/2 weeks on this ETA replacement. Now that I had a rebuilt one delivered, they cannot test the car because of a cracked $13 breather hose. Has to be special ordered. Question - shouldn't have they seen this before? Can't they slap tape on it and run the car (to see if it is actually the problem)? Meanwhile, the car sits baking in the Texas sun for another couple of days....
Yes, they can tape the breather hose for test purposes, and yes they should have figured this out before starting the job. If they knew what they were doing and had done this job on other cars, they would know to check ALL the breather hoses and recommend replacement with the new ETA + MAF (incremental cost of ~$300 in parts at MSRP, and maybe 0.5 hour labor tops). Sorry to hear things aren't going smoothly!
More depressing news - at the recommendation of the shop, replaced ETA with rebuilt one, still getting misfire/stutter/hesitation. Next recommendation was to replace the MAF. Obtained a NOS MB unit. Just received a call, still has problem. If the CEL is not on, would there still be codes thrown off? Any recommendation on what next? I'm down about $1,200 and counting. Do any of these repair facilities know what they are doing? They seem to be like attorneys, doesn't matter what happens, they get paid...
Maybe bad E-GAS module?
Maybe bad E-GAS module?
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The CEL only lights up when emissions-related codes (one single pin in the 38-pin connector) per the DM (diagnostic module) are activated. There are a bunch of other systems that store codes but don't light up the CEL (including the E-GAS/ETA/MAF).
Has the shop reset all the codes and then run the car, then re-pulled them? That should give a lot of directional indication as to what is wrong. Baselining is important.
Who is the shop you are using? I think you should take the car somewhere else - they've been throwing parts at it and that is the worst thing to do.
Have you called Louden Motorcars?
Has the shop reset all the codes and then run the car, then re-pulled them? That should give a lot of directional indication as to what is wrong. Baselining is important.
Who is the shop you are using? I think you should take the car somewhere else - they've been throwing parts at it and that is the worst thing to do.
Have you called Louden Motorcars?
Yes, this is Louden that has been trading parts for 4 weeks. I just called them and asked the tech to clear the codes and drive the car to get the problem to surface again and the pull them again. I don't think that they thought of that. Thanks Gerry
Jeez, that is the most elementary thing one could/should do. I'd pull the car from them. Perhaps samiam44 or alabbasi can tell you of a better shop in Dallas, as they both live in the metro area.
I'm very sorry that they have done this. I always heard they had a great reputation. I've seen their shop and talked to the owner, and he said they were very familiar with these cars. Sigh.
It's too bad I lived in Houston rather than Dallas -- I know two excellent shops down there that know the E500E cold. Damn.
I'm very sorry that they have done this. I always heard they had a great reputation. I've seen their shop and talked to the owner, and he said they were very familiar with these cars. Sigh.
It's too bad I lived in Houston rather than Dallas -- I know two excellent shops down there that know the E500E cold. Damn.
Misfiring is ALMOST always due to secondary ignition (caps, rotors, insulators!, plug wires, plug boots, coils).
If it's a stumble (power loss; not the same as misfire) only when accelerating under load, the fuel delivery / fuel pumps are also suspect, in addition to the MAF.
Gerry is right, basic diagnostics 101 is clear codes, drive car until problem occurs, check codes and see what codes have appeared. However, secondary ignition faults and fuel delivery faults DO NOT cause error codes... which makes these issues difficult to diagnose. Mechanics who are spoiled with newer cars that spit out a zillion codes for everything, will have no clue how to diagnose one of these "old school", early-computerized engines.
If it's a stumble (power loss; not the same as misfire) only when accelerating under load, the fuel delivery / fuel pumps are also suspect, in addition to the MAF.
Gerry is right, basic diagnostics 101 is clear codes, drive car until problem occurs, check codes and see what codes have appeared. However, secondary ignition faults and fuel delivery faults DO NOT cause error codes... which makes these issues difficult to diagnose. Mechanics who are spoiled with newer cars that spit out a zillion codes for everything, will have no clue how to diagnose one of these "old school", early-computerized engines.
Ok, I received a call that now the car is running properly. They did a smoke test and found a vacuum leak. When asked why they didn't do this first, they said that it wasn't leaking then and then it was. Simple fix to replace a small vacuum hose. Does this sound kosher? I'm out probably $750 for labor and the same for parts. Would the loss of vacuum be detected when they first pulled the codes (if they did before replacing parts)?
No on the codes. To be fair, you were going to most likely repair or replace items in a year or less. Glad it is done.
Spelling edits
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It feels to me like they didn't do some basic diagnosis, and were inclined to guess + throw parts at it. That said, $750 isn't a huge bill. You could resell the used parts and recoup some money back.
I'm glad it's fixed, but if I were you, I would clear all codes, then drive the car after you get it back, and check codes again after a couple of hundred miles and see what you get back.
Cheers,
Gerry
I'm glad it's fixed, but if I were you, I would clear all codes, then drive the car after you get it back, and check codes again after a couple of hundred miles and see what you get back.
Cheers,
Gerry
Any DIY options for a smoke test?
Yes, you can build a home-made smoke machine from a paint can and some hose & misc parts, or buy one pre-made on eBay. Should be lots of stuff on YouTube on the various ways to do this. Just be careful with having adequate fluid supply (baby oil, IIRC?) or the wick will burn to a crisp. Don't ask how I know. I've only had to use this one time, tracing down a fuel system evap leak on a W210 chassis that was causing a persistent error code.
More issues....now that I have the car back it does seem to have more low end torque...but it's now surging or hunting when idling.�� Quick question for anyone out there - how do I disable the ASR for the state Dyno test. I'm sitting in a black car in the Texas sun looking at a confused tech. It's not the dash button with the"snow tire" on it....
I never again have to do any kind of emissions or safety inspection on any of my cars, here in Maryland.
After buying my G-wagen, I had a clueless idiot at an inspection station in Texas put it on the dyno and started cranking it up.
I BURST through the door into the (no customer area) shop and started SCREAMING at the employee asking him what the hell he was doing putting a full-time four-wheel drive vehicle on a two-wheel dyno, and asked him he his company wanted to front the $10,000 for a new transfer case!
He backed off really quicklike and I had a few words with his manager, and needless to say they felt like real heels and could not argue even for a nanosecond with what I was saying.
The put it on the sniffer and the vehicle (M104) passed just fine.
That was my closest call.
Few inspection stations in Texas have sniffers, so when you go into one be sure to ask them that up front. Often I found at my former neighborhood inspection station (in my former hometown of The Woodlands, TX) that their sniffer was down about 50% of the time.
The station I took the G-wagon yo was nearby but I had to go there as my favorite station’s sniffer was down at the time....
BE CAREFUL and NEVER let an inspection station put an ASR or AWD/4WD vehicle on an inspection dyno.
Cheers,
Gerry
After buying my G-wagen, I had a clueless idiot at an inspection station in Texas put it on the dyno and started cranking it up.
I BURST through the door into the (no customer area) shop and started SCREAMING at the employee asking him what the hell he was doing putting a full-time four-wheel drive vehicle on a two-wheel dyno, and asked him he his company wanted to front the $10,000 for a new transfer case!
He backed off really quicklike and I had a few words with his manager, and needless to say they felt like real heels and could not argue even for a nanosecond with what I was saying.
The put it on the sniffer and the vehicle (M104) passed just fine.
That was my closest call.
Few inspection stations in Texas have sniffers, so when you go into one be sure to ask them that up front. Often I found at my former neighborhood inspection station (in my former hometown of The Woodlands, TX) that their sniffer was down about 50% of the time.
The station I took the G-wagon yo was nearby but I had to go there as my favorite station’s sniffer was down at the time....
BE CAREFUL and NEVER let an inspection station put an ASR or AWD/4WD vehicle on an inspection dyno.
Cheers,
Gerry
My usual place when I needed it tore a backend out of a BMW from the late 80’s just prior to me getting there. They spent about the same on repairs.
Glad you got it sorted out- they care good folks at Louden. If they replaced the MAF and maybe you should check the old one. Keep it. Sounds like it's fixed now, I understand the frustration at times. Which PVC hose was cracked? If it was the one for the ETA, then low and behold it would take serious R&R time. On a good note, perhaps you have gotten an ETA maintenance out of the way which would be needed eventually.
They did tell me that one of their techs was "out." I would NEVER recommend Louden to ANYONE. They jerked me around for weeks, not calling, not returning calls. They are taking too many cars. My car sat in the sun waiting for a spot in the "queue." They said that they could only find a MB actuator at $2750 and I had a refurb one there in 2 days. Now they use my guy for their refurb'd parts! Owner Vic is too important to talk to me, I asked to speak to him a number of times. Then, I had to jump ugly on them to talk to the tech and he said that they "screwed up" by not resetting the codes first. The actuator was on the brink of failure but who knows about the MAF. I don't know if they replaced the leaking vacuum line because the car now has a surging idle problem that was not occurring before. Louden is a real nightmare...
