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Date of Manufacture? 500E or E500

r44raven

E500E Guru
Member
Hi from the UK!
I have recently purchased a 500 (why have I waited this long!).
The documents with the car show an original registration date of January 1993, which would place it in 500E territory. However, it is a facelifted model, and all mechanical and bodywork fitments would indicate it to be an E500.
I know from MB service bulletins that in January 1993 chassis around the number B437327 were being produced. My number is B912371, seemingly some 475000 cars later.
I am told by my local MB specialist repairer that the changeover from 500E to E500 was November 1993, and his analysis of the car, and his search of MB records, definitely show it to be an E500 manufactured post November 1993.
However, MB themselves say the car was "shipped" i.e. came off the production line in January 1993. (I am told by members of the official MB Club here in the UK that MB's records are often unreliable!).
Does anyone have a 500 with a chassis number close to mine, and if so, what was its date of manufacture?
Thanks.
 
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Hi from the UK!
I have recently purchased a 500 (why have I waited this long!).
The documents with the car show an original registration date of January 1993, which would place it in 500E territory. However, it is a facelifted model, and all mechanical and bodywork fitments would indicate it to be an E500.
I know from MB service bulletins that in January 1993 chassis around the number B437327 were being produced. My number is B912371, seemingly some 475000 cars later.
I am told by my local MB specialist repairer that the changeover from 500E to E500 was November 1993, and his analysis of the car, and his search of MB records, definitely show it to be an E500 manufactured post November 1993.
However, MB themselves say the car was "shipped" i.e. came off the production line in January 1993. (I am told by members of the official MB Club here in the UK that MB's records are often unreliable!).
Does anyone have a 500 with a chassis number close to mine, and if so, what was its date of manufacture?
Thanks.
Several points to make. Most of the information that you have received, first of all, is "bunk." To be blunt, your local MB specialist doesn't know what he's talking about.

First, with a VIN ending in 912371, your car is a 1993 model year car, very clearly. I have plenty of cars with VINs near yours with definitive manufacturing data information, and your car very definitely & clearly would have left the factory in December of 1992 (the "ship" or "delivery" date to the dealer could have been January, 1993 given a holiday shut-down, but the car was definitely assembed in December). Thus, your car actually would have been a fairly early to mid-year 1993 model. My 12 years worth of data would confirm what you heard from MB themselves about the date of manufacture.

Second, MB service bulletins generally would pertain to a range of cars that would have been previously manufactured, not cars that are leaving the production line at the time the bulletin was issued. MB manufactures cars and adds VINs sequentially, and the last six digits of all 500E VINs are intermixed with all other W124 models being produced. Given this information, cars that are in the "B437327" range would have been produced in the 1990-1991 time frame, not as late as 1993.

Third, the "changeover" to facelift cars was actually done in the July/August 1993 time frame, for when the 1994 model year cars first appeared. Typically, you'll see a "C" ahead of the last six digits of the VIN instead of a "B" for a facelift car.

Fourth, thus, your car is NOT a facelift car both by the production month information I mentioned above, and by the VIN data. It was produced about 7-8 months too early to be a facelift car. There should be numerous other cues on the car that would confirm that it left the factory as a non-facelift car (i.e. brakes, taillights, trunklid design, serpentine belt tensioner design, serpentine belt rib count, presence of silver lettering/star on airbox underhood, and other things).

Here are a few VINs on either side of your car with confirmed "month of manufacture" data, that are in my personal database (i.e. I have extensive data on these cars, not just the basic "data card" data available from MB).

WDBEA36E8PB908300 - December, 1992
WDBEA36E8PB909186 - December, 1992
WDBEA36E8PB909592 - December, 1992
WDBEA36E2PB914271 - December, 1992
WDBEA36EXPB916267 - December, 1992
WDBEA36E9PB923467 - January, 1993
WDBEA36E9PB923629 - January, 1993

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
Gerry
 
That is why we have the Honch! I understand his fraternal twin is Dr. Wolfgang Peter.

BTW, have we ever thought about reaching out to him and seeing if he would be open to an online discussion with us on the 500Eboard? Maybe he would have some tidbits or stories which have never been documented anywhere else.


Robert
 
My number is B912371...
Can you please double-check your VIN? That chassis number does not show up in the EPC. :scratchchin:

B8907xx was built Nov-1992
B9443xx was built Mar-1993

Assuming yours is close to B9123xx, Jan-1993 would be correct. Yours would not be facelift from the factory unless it has code 859 in the datacard, which I can't check without a valid VIN.

:detective:
 
GSXR brings up a good point -- there were only FIVE cars in 500E production that had B9123XX VIN numbers, ranging from B912316 to B912333, before jumping to the B9124XX numbering.

So, it seems that your VIN provided does not exist as a 500E.

The information as to the production month/date of the car as indicated above, and facelift information, is correct for any car that would have a B912XXX VIN (of which there were a total of 20 produced with the B912XXX range -- five of which had B9123XX VINs as mentioned). Of course, I was basing all of that information on the VIN number you provided in your first post.

All of the numbers that I quoted above, have the corresponding production month/year data taken directly from the door plates of the cars, of which I have photographs. There is no better evidence of a car's month/year of production than the VIN plate that actually was placed on the car at the time of production.

Cheers,
Gerry

P.S. Can you confirm the VIN number please?
 
Hi Everyone!
Thanks for all your input. Its late in the UK right now - I'll send a longer answer (and a correction to the Chassis Number!) tomorrow!
 
Hi again!
Once again, thanks for all your input, and an especial apology to Gerry and gsxr - I made a mistake with the chassis number! It should have read B913271. The full VIN is:- WDB1240361B913271. I'm still trying to absorb all the information given by Gerry! Any further info given the corrected chassis number would be gratefully received!
I really don't mind if my 500 is an earlier or later model - I just would like a definite answer (which Gerry seems to have provided). However, in regard to the car, whilst I cannot speak for those "under bonnet" features, i.e. the serpentine belt tensioner design etc., as far as the exterior and the cabin are concerned, every indication is that it is a "facelift" model. It has the "facelift" bonnet and grill, plus the rounded "facelift" headlamp lens. Front and rear indicator lens are clear, and the trunklid is also of "facelift" design. Did some previous owner really go to the expense of replacing all these parts to make the car look like an E500? Of course, I realise that if the car had been in a front/rear end "shunt", then an update could have been done during the repair, but there is no evidence within the car to suggest it has been subject to such an accident.
Inside, it has a blue/grey (rather than wood effect finish) dash and door trim, plus also a 39cm steering wheel and a passenger air bag, which some references state only applied from the E500 onwards.
As regards that MB bulletin, I have one about the prefabricated headliner which states "On vehicles with sliding roof the prefabricated headliner was installed as of vehicle ident. end no. B437327 (January 1993)".
 
OK, your updated VIN is definitely a valid one for the 500E.

All of the information I provided above still applies -- it would have been a December 1992 manufactured car (when it left the Rossle Bau building), probably delivered to the dealer, sold and registered during January of 1993.

It definitely would be a pre-facelift car. There is NO WAY at that production date, that it would have been a face-lifted car.

It was a common modification for owners to "facelift" their cars back in the day, particularly after a slight front-end accident, or just if someone wanted to "update" the look of their car slightly. Most of the time, people only "facelifted" the hood, grill and headlights, and didn't bother with also replacing the trunk lid, so often times you have a "mix and match" situation with regard to the front and rear of the car. The "facelifted" trunk lids had a chrome bar above the license plate, whereas the "pre-facelift" models had a black bar above the license plate that ran the width of the trunk lid.

Also the taillights are of a different design with the facelifted cars (as are the headlights and front turn signals). Also, another cue for a "factory" facelifted car is that the front and rear bumper "rub" strips mounted in the center of the bumpers are black on "pre-facelifted" cars, and painted bumper color on a facelifted car (or with a couple of colors, where the bumper was painted the same as the body color such as Signal Red, the rub strip+bumper would have been painted body color).

Also, incorrect on the passenger-side airbag statement. Passenger-side airbags were phased in on the generic W124 starting in model year 1992 onward. Your car is a 1993 model. Only on the earliest 500Es will you not see dual airbags ... those dating from the 1991 and perhaps very early 1992 model year time frame. It is incorrect that dual airbags would have been phased in with the "facelift". Look at any punter's car on this site -- particularly from the US (where the 500E was sold as a 1992 model starting in late 1991) -- and you will see they have dual airbags. I'm sure our European and UK members will also confirm that their later 1992 and all 1993 and 1994 (facelift year) cars have dual airbags. Perusing the OWNER threads and looking at peoples' cars will also confirm this.

Again, any "references" that say that passenger airbags were phased in with the facelift are wholly incorrect.

Cheers,
Gerry

Here are a couple of threads of 1992 and 1993 (all pre-facelift) cars with dual airbags:

Bill's car, in the UK: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7397
Check his interior photos in the first post

Jelmer's car, in the Netherlands: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1430

Arkady's car, in Germany: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1084


Black bumper rub strip, from a pre-facelift car (Arkady's car)
proxy.php



Bumper-color rub strip, from a facelift car (my car)
proxy.php
 
Thanks for all that info! I now have that definite answer I was looking for.
Something else I forgot to mention was reference the bumper colour. The car has at some point been resprayed, and the bumper strips, bumper and lower side panels all painted in gloss to match the remainder of the body - so that clue that it was an earlier car was also missing! And about my comments concerning the MB bulletin from which I assumed that the date of January 1993 referred to the build date of chassis number 437327, I now realise this is probably the date the bulletin was issued!
Thanks again for all your help.
 
We'll have to do some research on that service bulletin, but W124 models being manufactured in January of 1993 should have significantly higher VIN numbers than the 437XXX series.

For example, I have definitive information on a fairly early (1991 model year) 500E, with chassis number ending in B495106, that left the factory in March of 1991.

Thus, a W124 model with a B437XXX number would have been produced significantly earlier -- probably in the latter part of calendar year 1990, as I originally projected.

The service bulletin would have come out after the car was produced.

Thanks and regards,
Gerry
 
Here's an example of a "pre-facelift" trunk lid and taillights

proxy.php





And an example of "facelifted" trunk lid and taillights (my car the day I picked it up in 2003)

proxy.php
 
Hi Gerry,
Thanks for posting the photos. My car has definitely been fitted with both the "facelift" trunklid and rear lamps.
Reference the pic of your car with the bonnet raised which you posted earlier, I'm interested in the support bracket that's installed across the engine bay between the tops of the suspension struts. Did you have this fitted? What is the benefit? Does it help with body strength?
By the way, I'm still very puzzled over the misinformation given to me by my local MB specialist repairer about the car's build date! In every other way he seems totally geared up with knowledge on the E500E, and he had nothing to gain in giving me wrong info. All very strange!
Best regards.
 
Hi Gerry,
Here's a copy of that MB bulletin which confused me regarding the chassis numbers in build as at January 1993.
Does it make any sense to you?
Regards.

mbbulletin.jpg
 
Checked the EPC datacard on the correct VIN... it does not have code 859, and definitely did not leave the factory with the "facelift" body panels. Someone changed them after delivery, and spent a lot of $$$ on it.

:spend:
 
Checked the EPC datacard on the correct VIN... it does not have code 859, and definitely did not leave the factory with the "facelift" body panels. Someone changed them after delivery, and spent a lot of $$$ on it.

:spend:

I'm wondering if the car was involved in a front/rear shunt at some point, and the front and rear "facelifted" during the repair work? Otherwise, as you say, someone spent a lot of $$$!
 
By the way, I'm still very puzzled over the misinformation given to me by my local MB specialist repairer about the car's build date! In every other way he seems totally geared up with knowledge on the E500E, and he had nothing to gain in giving me wrong info. All very strange!
.

Doesn't your specialist have access to a EPC ? Strange because that's the first thing a clued up tech would do . Anything else he's guessing. Any history of the car's previous owner (s) and photos perhaps ?
 
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Hi Gerry,
Here's a copy of that MB bulletin which confused me regarding the chassis numbers in build as at January 1993.
Does it make any sense to you?
Regards.

View attachment 42053
It certainly does read like cars with VIN 437XXX would have been produced up to January 1993, but this is not correct. It also could have been some sort of catch-all statement, but every indicator I have (and there are multiple inputs) would indicate that cars with that chassis number would date from the late 1990 time period. By January 1993 MB would have been well into the B7XXXXX and B8XXXXX VINs.
 
Hi Gerry,
About that MB bulletin, all very confusing!
Did you see my earlier post about the pic of your 500E, and my question about that apparent strengthening bar between the tops of the front suspension struts? Any input on that?
 
I haven't questioned my MB "specialist" about how he got his information about the build date of my car.
I'm posting with this reply some pics of the car - they don't really do it justice as bringing it up to spec is an ongoing project. The car is currently with an upholsterer to rectify a sagging interior roof headlining, so no up-to-date pics available at the moment. The wheels are not what they seem - they are 17" x 71/2J ET 37, with 20mm spacers at the rear and 10mm at the front. I have since fitted original 16" x 8J ET34 wheels - which have given a significant improvement in ride and handling.
I have very little history on the car (and this was reflected in the price). It was an import from Poland into the UK in November 2014, and I purchased it in early 2015. There are extensive records of work carried out on the car during the 2 years it was in Poland. Before that it as registered in Belgium. Prior to that I have no records at all.
The car is almost totally rust free, so it has been suggested (by my local MB "specialist") that the car may have spent some time in a warm climate - or maybe Japan where they don't use salt on the roads in winter (the car has not suffered from some of those hideous after fitments so popular in Japan!).
My question is, the SLS has been disconnected, and although I think the car rides/handles superbly, should I consider getting this rebuilt? (My local MB "specialist" says its not worth the money - surprising since he would benefit from the work!). I have trawled the internet for a definite answer as to whether it is worth (let's forget for the moment the resale value of the car) spending the money to get the SLS re-established. Opinion seems to be divided. Any further info/advice would be appreciated.
 

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It certainly does read like cars with VIN 437XXX would have been produced up to January 1993, but this is not correct. It also could have been some sort of catch-all statement, but every indicator I have (and there are multiple inputs) would indicate that cars with that chassis number would date from the late 1990 time period. By January 1993 MB would have been well into the B7XXXXX and B8XXXXX VINs.
I suspect a typo... might have meant to print 437XXX / Jan-1991, which might be about right. Definitely ain't 1993. Wouldn't be the first error in factory publications...

:scratchchin:
 
MB? Typo? Error? :detective:

I never thought that MB ever made any errors. Their poop doesn't stink.

Right ?
If you can confirm that Jan-1991 matches 437xxx, I'll add that to my list of factory documentation errors.

:wormhole:
 
I haven't questioned my MB "specialist" about how he got his information about the build date of my car.
I'm posting with this reply some pics of the car - they don't really do it justice as bringing it up to spec is an ongoing project. The car is currently with an upholsterer to rectify a sagging interior roof headlining, so no up-to-date pics available at the moment. The wheels are not what they seem - they are 17" x 71/2J ET 37, with 20mm spacers at the rear and 10mm at the front. I have since fitted original 16" x 8J ET34 wheels - which have given a significant improvement in ride and handling.
I have very little history on the car (and this was reflected in the price). It was an import from Poland into the UK in November 2014, and I purchased it in early 2015. There are extensive records of work carried out on the car during the 2 years it was in Poland. Before that it as registered in Belgium. Prior to that I have no records at all.
The car is almost totally rust free, so it has been suggested (by my local MB "specialist") that the car may have spent some time in a warm climate - or maybe Japan where they don't use salt on the roads in winter (the car has not suffered from some of those hideous after fitments so popular in Japan!).
My question is, the SLS has been disconnected, and although I think the car rides/handles superbly, should I consider getting this rebuilt? (My local MB "specialist" says its not worth the money - surprising since he would benefit from the work!). I have trawled the internet for a definite answer as to whether it is worth (let's forget for the moment the resale value of the car) spending the money to get the SLS re-established. Opinion seems to be divided. Any further info/advice would be appreciated.

hey there mate
congrats on your new car.Looks very good:)

I just got myself a 500 e..and its a 1992 model..and it looks just like yours ..appart from my EVO wheels are not diamond cut...as your seems like they are.
I think when it comes to the SLS...it is an expensive system...and it all depends on if its there at all...is it completely removed...then i guess it would be veeery costly..as you will need alot of hours to put it back in..and alot of cash to buy all the parts..

i think you should enjoy your car as it is..and go from there..and evaluate if you WANT to have the SLS in your car.because it will definetly raise the value of the car ...if its there..or at least it will decrease the value abit if its not there at all.

At the end of the day..you should try and enjoy your car like it is...and find out stuff along the way.cheers from norway :)
 
+1 with lowman. I wouldn't be too hung up about the build date either. At least the facelift is done properly, plus I don't see signs that the car spent life in japan.
 
My question is, the SLS has been disconnected, and although I think the car rides/handles superbly, should I consider getting this rebuilt? (My local MB "specialist" says its not worth the money - surprising since he would benefit from the work!). I have trawled the internet for a definite answer as to whether it is worth (let's forget for the moment the resale value of the car) spending the money to get the SLS re-established. Opinion seems to be divided. Any further info/advice would be appreciated.
I think it depends on how exactly SLS was disabled, and how much of the original SLS system hardware has been removed. If it needs ALL the SLS parts (tandem pump, hoses, lines, spheres, shocks, etc) that could get expensive. SLS works very well and I'd definitely consider restoring the system.

:spend:
 
OK, your updated VIN is definitely a valid one for the 500E.

All of the information I provided above still applies -- it would have been a December 1992 manufactured car (when it left the Rossle Bau building), probably delivered to the dealer, sold and registered during January of 1993.

It definitely would be a pre-facelift car. There is NO WAY at that production date, that it would have been a face-lifted car.

It was a common modification for owners to "facelift" their cars back in the day, particularly after a slight front-end accident, or just if someone wanted to "update" the look of their car slightly. Most of the time, people only "facelifted" the hood, grill and headlights, and didn't bother with also replacing the trunk lid, so often times you have a "mix and match" situation with regard to the front and rear of the car. The "facelifted" trunk lids had a chrome bar above the license plate, whereas the "pre-facelift" models had a black bar above the license plate that ran the width of the trunk lid.

Also the taillights are of a different design with the facelifted cars (as are the headlights and front turn signals). Also, another cue for a "factory" facelifted car is that the front and rear bumper "rub" strips mounted in the center of the bumpers are black on "pre-facelifted" cars, and painted bumper color on a facelifted car (or with a couple of colors, where the bumper was painted the same as the body color such as Signal Red, the rub strip+bumper would have been painted body color).

Also, incorrect on the passenger-side airbag statement. Passenger-side airbags were phased in on the generic W124 starting in model year 1992 onward. Your car is a 1993 model. Only on the earliest 500Es will you not see dual airbags ... those dating from the 1991 and perhaps very early 1992 model year time frame. It is incorrect that dual airbags would have been phased in with the "facelift". Look at any punter's car on this site -- particularly from the US (where the 500E was sold as a 1992 model starting in late 1991) -- and you will see they have dual airbags. I'm sure our European and UK members will also confirm that their later 1992 and all 1993 and 1994 (facelift year) cars have dual airbags. Perusing the OWNER threads and looking at peoples' cars will also confirm this.

Again, any "references" that say that passenger airbags were phased in with the facelift are wholly incorrect.

Cheers,
Gerry

Here are a couple of threads of 1992 and 1993 (all pre-facelift) cars with dual airbags:

Bill's car, in the UK: OWNER - e500.org | Owners and Their Cars
Check his interior photos in the first post

Jelmer's car, in the Netherlands: OWNER - Jelmer | Owners and Their Cars

Arkady's car, in Germany: OWNER - 036 | Owners and Their Cars


Black bumper rub strip, from a pre-facelift car (Arkady's car)



Bumper-color rub strip, from a facelift car (my car)
Helpful good information. I have seen on Lastvin site, mid year may or june 1993 production model e500e with "B" in the vin number and Lastvin says its an E500, not a 500E. Is that LASTVIN making a mistake? or can mid year 1993 production cars also be E500 facelifted, 1994 models? thanks @gerryvz
 
Helpful good information. I have seen on Lastvin site, mid year may or june 1993 production model e500e with "B" in the vin number and Lastvin says its an E500, not a 500E. Is that LASTVIN making a mistake? or can mid year 1993 production cars also be E500 facelifted, 1994 models? thanks @gerryvz
OK, the MB VIN numbering system has been explained several times here on this site, over the years. I'll try to give it another go here.

MB manufactured all W124 models (of all types, engine sizes, etc.) with the last six digits of the FIN/VIN in SEQUENTIAL order, over the production lifecycle of the cars from 1985 through 1995. Meaning that the last six digits VIN of a 500E could be right next to the VIN (one number after another, incremented by one) of a 300E or a 260E. Same thing later on with an E500 and an E200.

Given that each 124 came off the line with a sequential last six digits number, MB needed a way to delineate the 1,000,000th car from the 999,999th car. It used the "B" (and later on, the "C") to denote W124 models produced that were in the 1,000,000-2,000,000 range, and the "C" denoted that the car was the 2,000,000th produced (or later).

From initial series production of the W124 that started in the summer of 1985 (what we would in the US call "1986 model year cars"), it took a number of years to hit the cumulative production total of 1,000,000 W124 cars (sedans, wagons, coupes, cabrios) and then flip over to the "B" in the VIN. All E500Es produced either have a "B" or a "C" in the FIN/VIN.

Just so you know, the earliest MY 1992 500Es brought into the USA (US-spec, produced in the spring of 1991 in Germany) were "B" cars, already in the 1,520,000 range. Mainstream US MY 500Es produced later in 1991, were in the 1,570,000 range. This is common and these are considered early 1992 cars.

The earliest 500E (Euro spec, produced in late 1990) was W124 chassis 1,261,403 [aka B261403]. The last E500 produced was W124 chassis number 2,249,300 [aka C249300]. Of course, W124 models were produced for some months after this; in the case of cabriolets, for a year or so after this. FYI: the total of W124 models produced from 1985-1996 was 2,562,143 chassis.

To answer your specific question above:
My records show that "C" flipped over during late June/July 1993, which is just about exactly the "breakpoint" between the model year changeover (for US cars) from 1993 to 1994. There are still SOME (not many) very early 1994 models that have the "B" in the VIN, but pretty much all 1994 E500s are going to have the "C" in the VIN/FIN. My 1994 E500, produced in November 1993, is a "C" car.
 
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To answer your specific question above: My records show that "C" flipped over during late June/July 1993, which is just about exactly the "breakpoint" between the model year changeover (for US cars) from 1993 to 1994. There are still SOME (not many) very early 1994 models that have the "B" in the VIN, but pretty much all 1994 E500s are going to have the "C" in the VIN/FIN. My 1994 E500, produced in November 1993, is a "C" car.
The first couple dozen 1994 E500's imported to USA are all B9xxxxxx chassis / VIN. The earliest is WDB1240361B973321 which shows an estimated production date of April 1993 and a "release" date of June 2, 1992.

Further clarifying your question, @yao500e - the designation "500E" vs "E500" (or, E60) in LastVIN is a direct export from the EPC datacards / database. These are NOT always accurate. Do not take this "Model" field as Gospel! For the sample VIN above, the EPC (and LastVIN) are wrong. This car is absolutely an E500, one of the very first facelifted models, as proven by option codes 305+804 (edit - and more importantly, the 10th digit of the USA VIN = "R").

1738077297972.png

:gsxrepc:
 
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FWIW certain fields that VIN decoder websites display are translations which leads to inaccuracies although LastVIN tends to do a better job than most.

The "Model" field in this case; It needs to be cross referenced as the the definitions are available in a separate table which VIN decoder websites need to query. Similarly, each chassis has it's own set of SA codes but the definitions also need to be looked up. It gets out of hand pretty quickly.

For US cars it's straight-forward enough to figure out if it's facelifted model by simply looking at the 10th digit of the VIN but for RoW cars you might need to dive one level deeper to check for an 855/859 SA code I think? I did that to figure out the number of pre-facelift vs facelift vehicles maybe 1-2 years ago.
 
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