driving cross country

[bgalakazam]

Hi all, I will be moving to SC from CA in June (at latest July) and have a dilemma about taking the 400E. If you look into my post history you will see I had some problems with my 400E and I don't entirely trust it for a 40 hours drive total. That being said, there are 2 routers I can take:
- north through the sierra, then nevada and east I-80
- south to bakersfield, then east I-40

I like the flat road better as my car stalled at high altitude twice so far (should I go with the 400E). But here are my options of moving:

- 2 airplane tickets ($170 each), + $1000 for car move (my car is worth no more than $2000 - $2500 at best)
- drive the 400E cross country ($600 gas @ 24mpg and $3.80/gal) + 3 motel nights ~$60 each + food + time off work to move
- sell 400E, get a newer car [I like the W211 E320 CDI (not the bluetec V6 crap, I6 iron cast, no extra filters) or W211 E550], drive it (cheaper due to better mileage)

With a car, I can take most of my belongings. Cheapest option is to drive my 400E. But I don't really trust it. I can change the other ignition coil (already replaced: 1 coil <500, ETA replaced, upper and lower harness replaced, wires are <10k, new o2 sensor (but it read lazy at dealer, not sure if still true), (MAF had voltage code error, not any more), spark plugs <1000, caps and rotors <500, new battery <500, v-belt <500). I do have problems with the transmission as it started it's way out. I have a 1 sec Reverse delay and the upshift is hesitant. I will change the oil when my gasket and pan bolts arrive this Friday (I already have the MANN filter and 8qt oil). One other worrysome thing is I got 14mpg combined twice in a roll now and I have the new parts... there is no knocking or misfire, but it still troubles me. My current recurring codes:

[TABLE="width: 1171"][TR][TD="class: xl63, width: 224"]pin[/TD][TD="class: xl63, width: 64"]blink[/TD][TD="class: xl63, width: 121"]status[/TD][TD="class: xl63, width: 762"]description[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]8 Base Module[/TD][TD="class: xl64, align: right"]6[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]cleared[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]A/C electromagnetic clutch (A9k1) jammed or poly-V-belt broken.[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]19 Diagnostic Module[/TD][TD="class: xl64, align: right"]26[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]can't clear[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]Upshift delay switchover valve, open/short circuit[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]30 SRS Airbag[/TD][TD="class: xl64, align: right"]3[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]cleared[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]Driver airbag squib (R12/3)[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]30 SRS Airbag[/TD][TD="class: xl64, align: right"]8[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]cleared[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]Voltage supply circuit 15R[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]

What can I do to ensure my 400E won't let me down? Picking the flat road is a plus. Changing the other coil will help too. Replacing the transmission oil, too. What else?

Maybe I should just sell it for $1500-$2000 or whatever the dealer offers (I got a paper telling me I can sell it, from my service), take a flight to TX, UT or AZ and buy a E320 CDI and drive that back? (if I am approved for autoloan that is).

I do have AAA towing up to 100mi and there is always Greyhound if something happens... but my luggage and other things will be stranded. If I can assure my car will get me through I will drive it. It's mostly freeway, so...

What do you think?

edit: refuel today: 17.653 combined. Seems to be going up. I DID reset the adaptation so, that may also be a cause for the previous 2 times 14mpg.

 

[Glen]

I personally wouldn't attempt a cross country trip in a car that wasn't running right. A properly running 400E should return mid-20's MPG on freeway drives with ease. 14 MPG combined is quite low, even for a 500E so there's something wrong with your car. If I were you, I'd spend some time seeking out a good independent shop that can diagnose and correct the issues. You have the time...use the next two months to sort out the issues and you'll be good to go when it's time to leave for SC. The important thing is not to wait until the last minute so that you are forced to either buy another car or risk taking a broken one.

 

[Jelmer]

I'm with Glen.

A cross country trip is something that CAN be very fun (especially if you stop here-and-there to watch some points of interest), but NOT in a car that you don't fully trust. If it were me, every sound the car would make would make me think where it came from, what might be wrong, etc....

 

[gerryvz]

It seems like (from what you are saying) that your car could be put into decent enough shape to make the trip, if you take care of things. I've made the drive from Portland, Oregon to Houston two times, and from the Bay Area to Houston once, via two different routes. I'm a big fan of road trips and the adventure they bring.

Just two weeks ago for spring break, I drove my family in my 560SEL from Houston to eastern Tennesee (a 16 hour drive each way) for a spring break getaway trip, via Texas, Arkansas, and clear across Tennesee, and then south through Chattanooga, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana to get home. Totally worth it ... the family was loving the space accorded by the expansive rear seat area of the SEL. I was surprised to see that our destination in eastern Tennesee (not too far from Oak Ridge) was just a bit over half-way to New York City from Houston. The 560SEL returned over 18 MPG on two tankfuls of gas and well over 17 MPG on the others -- and all of that was at speeds over 70 MPH and often 80 MPH (speed limit in rural TX was 75 MPH; other states 70).

You have to balance the hassle of buying a new car, planning airline flights and related logistics, etc. vs. keeping your car, future car payments on a loan, etc.

The 400E is actually overall a very reliable car, and I'd think as long as the basics are in good condition, can be fairly easily brought up to a good running condition to get you reliably to your destination.

And as you said, you can carry a fair amount of personal stuff in your car that it would otherwise be difficult or impossible to carry. I know that when I moved from Portland to Houston, we had the movers pack up everything except the most valuable and/or sensitive items we owned (i.e. firearms/handguns, home computer, valuable jewelry and coins, etc.). I ended up taking these items with me when I drove my wife's S124 wagon south on I-5 from Portland and then east to Houston on I-10.

I have to concur with Glen. To be honest with you, since you've got a bit of time, I'd do the following:

• Take your car to a reputable indy shop, and have them do a complete inspection and diagnostic on the car. This should be a couple or three hours of time, but would be TOTALLY worth it in terms of knowing exactly what you are dealing with
• Work with the shop to prioritize the "must-do" items based on what they found. You need to tell them up-front that you want to get the car in good running condition for a long, cross-country trip
• Of course, in the short term take care of the items like the coil, O2 sensor and transmission fluid-filter change as necessary -- perhaps have the shop do these at the same time they are doing diagnostics

While I wouldn't knowingly take an unreliable car on a cross-country trip, it seems to me that you should be able to improve its condition in the coming weeks so that it can make the trip. Also, any long-trip is always an adventure in reliability -- it's possible that something can always fail on any car.

To me, this unknown element always makes things exciting. Like 2 years ago when I lost my alternator belt on my 560SEC halfway between Dallas and Houston on I-45, and had to find a substitute belt. Running one's car on the battery (and doing Apollo-13 types of calculations as to how far one thinks they can go on existing battery current, by turning accessories off, etc.) is sort of fun, but at the same time stressful.

Bottom line -- go for the adventure, but do what you can up front to mitigate and eliminate risk/problems. Life's too short to play it safe all the time, and roadtrips (at least in my experience) done right always provide memories that last a long time, if not a lifetime.

Cheers,
Gerry

P.S. Overall your car should be returning high-teens MPG in mixed driving -- I would think 18-19 and even 20 MPG. My E500 gets 16-17 overall. Highway driving should be in the low to mid-20s, 23-24 MPG would be about right. This is actually darned close to what the M104 inline-six motors get. My wife's 95 wagon gets around 21-23 around town/mixed, and I think I can see 25-26 MPG on highway driving.

 

[gsxr]

+1 with everything stated above. Something is not right if the 4.2L is getting 14mpg. City driving should be 18-20mpg, long freeway trip 23-25mpg, mixed will be in between those two. To have the car at 14mpg it must be running absurdly rich. I'd suspect the O2 sensor, MAF, or fuel pressure regulator. If any of these are out of spec, there may not be any error codes.

 

[bgalakazam]

Offtopic adventure: My father bought th 240D in Oregon, it wasn't started in over a year, yet it went on right away. Without an oil change he drove it 10 hours to CA. This car still amazes me at it's 220K+. I WOULD take that car cross-country, but it's not mine.

My MPG was great (~18 city, 22-25 fwy) before the coil problem and 6 months in pit. Then when I changed most parts, I reset adaption. Last 3 tanks: 14.9, 14.8, 17.7. I ordered a second new coil. The transmission fluid change will happen this weekend as well. I have to check if my O2 sensor is still lazy somehow...

Once I replace the parts I do know need servicing, I will indeed take it to an indy shop for a diagnostic and to see what is pressuring to be done.

To be honest, the car didn't leave me stranded even when it was running on 4 cyl. And my 190E before that made it to Vegas and Back (8hr 1 way) with no anti-freeze (my hose popped and everything leaked, and I noticed when I got home). Didn't overheat past 85 C.

I'll keep you posted on my preparations. I love my 400E and the 80c cheaper petrol in SC is a big plus for me.

 

[bing]

Bottom line -- go for the adventure, but do what you can up front to mitigate and eliminate risk/problems. Life's too short to play it safe all the time, and roadtrips (at least in my experience) done right always provide memories that last a long time, if not a lifetime.

I concur with Gerry here. Road trips are one of great life adventures and I love 'em too! Whenever possible and time permitting I would rather drive than train it or plane it , can't stand airports and lining up. Of course it has to be in a car that's running right (well, as far as you can tell or at least feel) , but will never be full proof. So, like most say, have it diagnosed, fix it, get it running nicely and haul ass. Remember, getting a loan to fund a new car and have car payments will not guarantee "no fail" either.

When I bought my 036 I had to pick it up from Zurich and drove straight to London in snow conditions non stop, bar fuel and quick to bite, not thinking at all whether it would make it. The fact that it had been sitting in storage for 4 months, and maintenance service was 12months overdue, did not dent my confidence. I checked the fluids, cranked it and fired straight up - 'eh, voila!' 2 warning lights came on, windscreen washer low and a light bulb gone - so first stop filled her up, got some cheap winter fit washer fluid, replaced bulb, checked engine/tranny oil again now that it's hot, got my starbucks coffee and off I went for 14hrs! Arrived in London, got it UK registered, quick oil change, dealt with PS leak and days later i was off again, this time to Northern Germany in even harsher winter conditions. I remember thinking perhaps this wasn't a good idea after all, but the car ran excellent and I was warm. At this point I haven't even gone thru the maintenance records to see what has been done or not and, moreover, what things to look out for on car like this (as it turned out later after the trip the harness and ignition parts were long overdue, a long with oil cooler hoses which I already knew needed replacing) , but it felt confident as I was and positive thinking did not let me down.

More recently, I did a 3kmiles road trip in my 164kmiler ,1996 S600, 6 previous owners and patchy service records thru France, Italy, Switzerland, Austria and Germany. I bought this car on a whim really and probably unfair of me, but I classified it as a beater since it's not worth much at all and nor it will ever appreciate. However, sitting behind the wheel certainly doesn't feel like a beater - it drives better than it looks. Infact it drives shockingly perfect and every electric gizmo works! My indy used to own it so didn't think twice whether it would make it or not. Some friends thought I was crazy taking such an old car full of rusts but it didn't flinch at all. So much so even my indy was teasing, "oh, I hope you make it back!"

End of the day, yes life is too short, enjoy the drive and don't think what might fail.

 

[bgalakazam]

Update 1: I changed the 2nd ignition coil. Meanwhile I found a couple things.

1. This is apparently an air temperature sensor PN: 009 254 6817. Mine had the date of 92M 09. The wire looked pretty green. How vital is this to fuel economy? It's a cheap replacement? (the wire is all green from the water from the firefighters)





2. This (vacuum?) hose is broken. I have a similar hose at home, but I can't reach into either end of it to replace it. It's also too brittle. There is enough room for a heatshrink, however. Worth noting dealer found no vacuum leaks 1 month ago, but I doubt this is a new change since I never checked there. Do you know what it is for and if it's not vital, a heatsrink will be enough? The other end is under the plastic and cap, 2cm inward from the V-belt.



Tomorrow (or Thursday) I am changing the transmission fluid. I hope the upshift smoothens (though I don't hope the 1 sec delay going to R changes).

I also need to change the wiring path as whoever changed them did a poor job. I have the Spain Bosch, but also 1 good Beru from W. Germany. I need to change 1 wire as the V-belt cut some housing and it's in electrical tape now. I don't know where to get single wires.

PN: 0 300 504 103 of cut Beru wire (distributor-coil).
PN: 0 356 250 029 of the other Bosch wires that were changed prior to be buying the car.


Lastly, I need to check my O2 sensor somehow as indeed it might still be lazy (even thought it's a Bosch replacement <500miles).

 

[Jelmer]

I guess you've decided to fix her up and do the drive? I hope you'll be able to fix everything that's needed and have a very memorable drive

 

[gsxr]

1) The IAT sensor is not super critical. If it were not working, there would be an error code. If the readings were off, it still wouldn't cause any major change in engine operation.

2) That broken vacuum line IS critical and is likely a good portion of the reason why your MPG is low. That vac line goes to the EZL. No vacuum means retarded ignition timing, and reduced MPG, and reduced part-throttle power. Use a short length of rubber hose as a short-term patch, but when possible, replace the entire length with fresh vac tubing (it's cheap). Once it snaps, that means the whole thing is brittle and will continue to snap apart somewhere else.

3) It's unlikely that a new Bosch O2 is faulty... only way to diagnose is viewing live data on a digital scanner.

 

[bgalakazam]

2) That broken vacuum line IS critical and is likely a good portion of the reason why your MPG is low. That vac line goes to the EZL. No vacuum means retarded ignition timing, and reduced MPG, and reduced part-throttle power. Use a short length of rubber hose as a short-term patch, but when possible, replace the entire length with fresh vac tubing (it's cheap). Once it snaps, that means the whole thing is brittle and will continue to snap apart somewhere else.

WOW... thanks a lot for the tip. I will definitely look on patching this as soon as possible (this week, if I can't, the weekend for sure). I do have reduced part-throttle power. thx thx thx

Any place I can find a diagram or something how to replace the entire tubing? I do have the same diameter tubing at home, but I don't see either end of the tube in my engine or how to replace it.

 

[gsxr]

The FSM has some diagrams, plus there is a decal above the driver's headlight that has a partial diagram... shown below:

Note the two are nearly identical, the vacuum plumbing for all years .034/.036 is basically the same:

 

[bgalakazam]

Update 2: Changed the transmission fluid and patched the vacuum

1. Did a full flush of the pan and torque converter and put in new DEXRON III fluid and MANN filter. The upshift hesitation is almost gone. The reverse 1 sec delay and slight clicking is present as expected.

2. Changed the end to the EZL of the vacuum hose with a rubber one. I don't know if there is another break further down the line, there seems to be inadequate power <3000 RPM unless I floor it. I will inspect the diagrams and see if I can get a new vacuum line from the same source.

thanks gsxr for the infos. More updates will come as I continue preparing my 400E for the trip.

 

[gsxr]

Easy test... with the engine running, remove the vacuum hose at the EZL. Place your finger over the end. You should feel vacuum sucking the hose onto your finger. No vacuum means a break somewhere else, likely between the intake manifold halves, as this particular vac tube runs to the very back & bottom of the intake. Almost impossible to access without pulling the ETA.

 

[bgalakazam]

I changed my ETA 3 times and didn't replace this................... sigh. I'll test the vacuum and hope for the best.

EDIT: Lucky for me, vacuum is good. I will still have to replace the line at some point. Adding my diagram for reference.

Vacuum diagram 1993 400E

 

[bgalakazam]

Update 3: Changed the fuses with copper ones


I had misplaced fuses (maybe the reason 1 of my stop bulbs went out prematurely) and the old oxydated ones. Here is the new setup:



Question 1: The two white 8 fuses at the top were just one red 16, but the cable says 5 under it. Should I remove the extra one I added or keep both?

Question 2: There is no info for fuse D. It was a 16 red before that so I replaced it. Should I leave it like that or empty?



As usual, thanks for the help.

EDIT

Question 3: There is a vibration when the car is in gear and idle (500 RPM). No vibration in N and P. This is since the trans fluid change and fuses change. It looks like it's being rough, but car has complete power and vibration can't really be felt once driving. Again, this is only in gear. Perhaps something to do with the fluid change or the extra fuse I added above. No problem in shifting what-so-ever, in fact it improved since the change. I don't get why the rough vibration at the steering wheel then. Definitely no misfire.

 

[bgalakazam]

Update 4: More answers, less questions


1. The MPG jumped up to 20.76 after the EZL vacuum was fixed

2. The 2 fuse slots should be just 1 Blue 25 according to members. The other slot is either for heated seats or telephone.

3. The vibration in gear when stopped ( D and R ), is most likely due to the engine mounts. Doesn't happen in N or P or while driving. The shifting is smooth (as smooth as it can be for an old hydraulic transmission) and there is no misfire.

Question: I don't have a lift and there is not enough room with the jacks. The mounts are roughly $110 each after tax and shipping. Is this a 30-60min job? If so, I'll throw another $100 at a mechanic and be done with ~$300.

Question 2: Can this hurt my engine if I don't fix it? I don't mind the vibration while stopped. If I can save the money before the trip, I would do so.

 

[gsxr]

FYI, on #2 above... one slot is for the factory cellular phone, the other slot is for heated seats.

Engine mounts on a 400E or 500E are a 4-8 hour job, on a lift... dunno how long without a lift. Engine damage of any sort is extremely unlikely with old/bad mounts, I bet half the cars out there today are in the same condition, because people don't realize how smooth the engine should be with new mounts!

 

[gerryvz]

I bet half the cars out there today are in the same condition, because people don't realize how smooth the engine should be with new mounts!

At least half !!

 

[Jelmer]

Engine damage of any sort is extremely unlikely with old/bad mounts

I disagree. My mounts were in such terrible condition that the engine was actually hitting the chassis, leaving scratches. I don't know if that could get any worse, but it was my trigger to finally bite the bullet and have them replaced.

 

[gerryvz]

I think Dave was talking about actual damage to the running parts and functioning of the engine, not exterior/cosmetic blemishes.....

 

[gsxr]

Correct on both counts. The engine physically touching anything due to bad mounts is an extreme case... Jelmer's is the first I've heard of, btw. Those must have been totally disintegrated. (Maybe a PO installed Yurro mounts...?)

 

[bgalakazam]

Update 5: Almost ready for the drive

Today I changed the oil with Redline 10W-40 synthetic. With this all the major things I planned to check are now changed.

A question about the A/C, the wheel doesn't seem to engage. I created a thread about it in case you have any suggestions. I don't want to take a mid-summer drive with no A/C.
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?4138-400E-A-C-clutch-engages-and-stops

 

[bgalakazam]

Update 6: Ready do ride

Changed the 2 air filters and got a new BOSCH Evolution wiper. With this (save for the A/C), I have changed and checked all that I wanted for the trip.

The weather got a bit cooler. I hope it holds. We will leave this Saturday most likely, finalizing the place we will live at in SC. If there is a delay, there is a chance we leave Thursday. We will be taking I-40 and I already got several sightseeing stops in mind.

I'll update when we arrive.

 

[Jelmer]

Exciting! I wish you a very good trip, and I'm looking forward to the stories and pictures

 

[bgalakazam]

We made it safely on Wednesday morning. I just got Internet at home today. The car did a surprising 28-29mpg avg on 65-80mph speed, fully loaded.

Only the light for antifreeze level came up. Turns out my 20yo sensor is corroded and completely fallen apart. Looks like I need to take out the fluid in the reservoir to replace it. I can't do car repairs in this apartment complex, so I've put off the job for later.

edit: forgot to mention, we were in Oklahoma City when the tornado hit... at the zoo, away from the storm. We then had the absolute worst drive through Oklahoma and Arkansas to Memphis that night. Couldn't see anything, I was guided by the GPS for the turns. Still drover above 60mph to get out of the storm.