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E60 front sway bar

captruff

E500E **Meister**
Member
I have a factory E60 front sway bar 29mm. I have decided to make a few copies since I need one for my wagon and a few friends. I will probably do a run of 12 bars. I will get estimated prices up ASAP.

Jeff
 
I have a factory E60 front sway bar 29mm. I have decided to make a few copies since I need one for my wagon and a few friends. I will probably do a run of 12 bars. I will get estimated prices up ASAP.

Jeff

When I measured it was something close to 30mm and mine is AMG bar too.

Is it exactly 29mm (the one you have ) ?

Does the sway bar have the part number on it somewhere ? (sticker or embodied HWA*** or B 6 ** )

I tried to find anything on my bar but did not see anything so far.

:detective:

I think after this thread most of the folks here will get the E60 sway bar
 
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When I measured it was something close to 30mm and mine is AMG bar too.

Is it exactly 29mm (the one you have ) ?

Does the sway bar have the part number on it somewhere ? (sticker or embodied HWA*** or B 6 ** )

I tried to find anything on my bar but did not see anything so far.

:detective:

I think after this thread most of the folks here will get the E60 sway bar

I'm going to dig it out later today. It does have the B6 number and IIRC it is 29-30mm depending on exactly where I measure with the calipers. Ill post up pictures.

Jeff
 
I'm going to dig it out later today. It does have the B6 number and IIRC it is 29-30mm depending on exactly where I measure with the calipers. Ill post up pictures.

Jeff

Thanx will wait for pics then .

I measured mine right in the middle of a bar
 
I'm going to dig it out later today. It does have the B6 number and IIRC it is 29-30mm depending on exactly where I measure with the calipers. Ill post up pictures.

Jeff

E60 sway bar part number is hwa1243230165
 
Here it is

15.jpg

16.jpg


17.jpg


18.jpg

The number is difficult to read but it looks like B6 602 00 41


Jeff

This is easy to read
 

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Here it is... The number is difficult to read but it looks like B6 602 00 41
Thanx Jeff, this is what I got 30 mm too. According to receipts mine is B6 *** part number.

Rick whats the difference between HWA*** and B6 *** part numbers , I guess B6 is a newer version of part number ?
 
Thanx Jeff, this is what I got 30 mm too. According to receipts mine is B6 *** part number.

Rick whats the difference between HWA*** and B6 *** part numbers , I guess B6 is a newer version of part number ?

HWA part numbers are used for items on production cars. The HWA part number is still listed as valid in the EPC.

B series part numbers are normally optional items and/or kits to install/convert "after the fact". You need to access the SA to find the B listed part numbers. Kind of a pain in the ass via the EPC.

The E60 suspension conversion kit does not list the sway bar as part of the kit, so not sure exactly where the sway bar B part number came from.

With that said. There shouldn't be any different between the sway bars themselves, but sometimes the B series are "kits", so it might come with bushings and/or brackets (just a guess though)
 

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HWA part numbers are used for items on production cars. The HWA part number is still listed as valid in the EPC.

B series part numbers are normally optional items and/or kits to install/convert "after the fact". You need to access the SA to find the B listed part numbers. Kind of a pain in the ass via the EPC.

The E60 suspension conversion kit does not list the sway bar as part of the kit, so not sure exactly where the sway bar B part number came from.

With that said. There shouldn't be any different between the sway bars themselves, but sometimes the B series are "kits", so it might come with bushings and/or brackets (just a guess though)

Yup, in my case that was a kit with 129 323 01 85 bushings , I think the same as Jeff has .

I checked with my local MB dealer on HWA sway bar , it was no longer available , they even could not get the price for the bar.
 
Yup, in my case that was a kit with 129 323 01 85 bushings , I think the same as Jeff has .

I checked with my local MB dealer on HWA sway bar , it was no longer available , they even could not get the price for the bar.

Yes, the bars have been NLA for a long time now.
 
While at Startech, I met Brandon Spears.
He was talking about a 500E sway bar production run. He says he can make any sway bar you want.
Please give him a call for more details at:
brandon@feindms.com
979-229-9214 cell
 
Will the repop bars be nearly identical, i.e. narrowing down to 22mm before the final curve?

The RENNtech bar is larger (32mm) and maintains that size almost all the way to the ends... photo below.

Any idea on price?

proxy.php


:apl:
 
BTW... the HWA- numbers are replacement part numbers. B6- numbers indicate an accessory item.

One or more HWA- numbers will make up a B6- kit, and the B6- kit prices are almost always cheaper than buying all the HWA- subcomponents separately.

For the sway bar, the B6- "kit" only includes the sway bar, no bushings. By comparison, the B6- accessory AMG bumper kits include the auxiliary lights and misc hardware, and it's much cheaper to buy the B6- bumper kit than ordering all the HWA- numbers.

:matrix:
 
Brandon did not talk about pricing. He wanted to know if there was enough interest here, on the board, to make them.
 
Demand will depend largely on the price. The RENNtech 32mm bar is still available, AFAIK, for $600 plus shipping.

:spend:
 
Brandon is Really good @ getting shops to work the pricing nicely FWIW.

he and I have been working together now for a while..:)

jono
 
btw, we have also talked about making a suitably stiffer rear bar to get the handling more neutral...will most def need something if we get these Fat bars made..!

As ya'll have likely noted, the rear bar is a bit more convoluted..:-P
 
An E60 is a more powerful beast requiring suitable control. What value would an E60 sway bar provide a standard E500E aside from impressing the impressionable at GTGs? :36:
 
Clearance around the rear bar is tight... installing a larger rear bar will require very careful inspection around the SLS lines, and possibly re-bending them for additional space. Just something to keep in mind before popping in that custom 20mm or 22mm rear bar. ;)

Larger front sway bar will reduce body roll and make the car corner a bit flatter... but will also increase understeer.

:seesaw:
 
understeer...Booo!!!
fighting with those BMW/Porsche/Audi's on track US makes you look Lame..and I need to represent being the only Merc out there...;-)

SLS deleted on my example, but those lines will suffer some tweaking as long as you do it in a sympathetic manner.



@ least I'll have a bit more GO next time out....woooo.... !
 
Larger front sway bar will reduce body roll and make the car corner a bit flatter... but will also increase understeer.

:spend:It will also add weight, constraint & cost because a correspondng rear bar & all mounting hardware will be required to neutralize/balance the handling (if it can be fit without interfering with existing or modified suspension geometry). Performance responsiveness could very well suffer on a standard E500E.

A less costly performance alternative would be to renew the existing bushings & hardware with the OE items designed for the car.
 
Larger sway bars will definitely increase understeer, not sure if that's a good thing on the track or the street. Why not get better shocks and springs for better handling?

So all of you who are looking to buy a larger sway bar are doing it for...?
 
Well, it's cheaper and easier than the E60 spring/damper package. :D And for street driving well below 10/10, the reduced body roll is nice.

Track use is a whoooole 'nuther discussion. Understeer can also be managed by NOT having staggered wheel/tire setups, and by reducing rear camber... both will reduce rear grip, which (in theory) will help balance out the designed-in understeer. At least somewhat.

Increased weight is a bummer, one alternative is a hollow swaybar, but that may affect cost.

:hornets:
 
Did you pick up the 400E with the 6.0 ?

Maaayyybe...;-)

she is going to go back to a normal 400E in the coming months...have a Beautiful low mileage 4.2 and reman trans, and low mileage 2.24 that will be going back in. May upgrade the interior to 500E bits, IDK yet but I have two complete black 036 interiors taking up space..!

jono
 
but back to the understeer...I don't run a staggered setup currently on the track, I've got the stiffest spring I could find for the rear (from a 129 FWIW) to make up for the lack of rear bar..

Along those lines but on a different chassis we just installed a 19mm rear bar in a 560SEC, up from 14mm...but they are So heavily tuned to understeer it should just bring things back to neutral..more tail happy of course but that can be a Lot of fun!

jono
 
Sorry, late in to this thread. That is some we can reproduce, just need a stock bar for measument. Any size is possible ( as long as it will fit in the car). Probably have to get custom bushings made for then, but we could have the whole thing ready in about 60~75 days. If you guys want to do a group buy, I bet I could e price under 300 a bar.
 
anyone tried stiffer sway bar bushings? I suspect the old rubber ones, if still stock represent a cheap performance improvement - not suggesting this is the right solution for the captruff, but it probably would make a notable difference for 90% of the 500Es out there.

Glen and I were looking into reproducing some out of polyurethane (PU), possibly even casting some. We couldn't find off the shelf bushings that would work or even bulk PU that we could machine with normal DIY tools (forestener bits and a compound miter saw).

Doug
 
I gave the E60 bar that I have to a friend who took to 3 possible manufacturers. They want to do a run of 50 bars and the target price about $250.00, but they are looking into what steel will be used. I will update asap.

Jeff
 
I have an established relationship with two bar manufactures so I can do small runs. It there is a group buy for these (lets say 10 sets), I'll order a few more to stock which will bring the cost down. The more I buy in one batch brings the cost down. I also have a vendor who will do custom bushings in poly, so we can do stock and ones for larger bars. Attached is a picture of the bushings they are doing for me on front 126 sway bars.

proxy.php
 
Hi Jack,
i'd be very interested in the PU replacement bushings.
The W124 bushings are quite different, at least upfront.

Thank you,

Doug
 
I'd be concerned about noise/squeaks with PU bushings, for street use, unless they are graphite impregnated (or similar). The factory bushings have Teflon fabric liners inside and they are silent. New OE bushings are very stiff, I'm not sure what advantage there would be with aftermarket.

For track / race use, that's a different story!

:3gears:
 
Another thing I would really like to see would be a Proper/Solid chunk of aluminum to Hold the sway bar to the chassis instead of that spindly sheet metal bracket..:-P

jono
 
Another thing I would really like to see would be a Proper/Solid chunk of aluminum to Hold the sway bar to the chassis instead of that spindly sheet metal bracket..:-P
Agreed. The factory bracket is pretty wimpy, even though they redesigned it... the original was so bad it often broke! The new version isn't much better, but at least doesn't break as often.

Old style on the left, new/improved on the right:
proxy.php



Some folks in Japan came up with these... not my cup 'o tea, as they don't use OE bushings:
proxy.php



:bbq:
 
The picture was just to show the that the could make custom bushings. I probably need to crawl under one to get a better idea of that is needed. As for noise, that may just be the trade off. The reason rubber is quiet is that it gives more, but that also means a shorter life and less performance. How does the end of the bar attach to the car?
 
the jap ones look Interesting, but yea..having to source their bushings to make it work/have some made when they wear out pulls the want factor down a few notches.
I figure w/ some chunks o' alloy you could have it machined up to take the factory bushing size/shape..be it rubber or poly..:)

jono
 
Sounds like I need to look at a certain north Houston board member's car and see what we can do. Are the cars tail happy now? Putting a larger front bar by its self will induce more understeer.
 
Agreed. The factory bracket is pretty wimpy, even though they redesigned it... the original was so bad it often broke! The new version isn't much better, but at least doesn't break as often.

Old style on the left, new/improved on the right:
31.jpg


Some folks in Japan came up with these... not my cup 'o tea, as they don't use OE bushings:
32.jpg


:bbq:

Another thing I would really like to see would be a Proper/Solid chunk of aluminum to Hold the sway bar to the chassis instead of that spindly sheet metal bracket..:-P

jono

Hi,

The swaybar brackets are designed to withstand fatigue conditions. The swaybars fixed end into the LCA does in reality have a pendulum movement around the axis in the front bushings. So the bracket functions like a spring plate allowing to flex back & forth just a bit, along with the swaybar end "vertical" movement. The reason for beefing up the design due to breakage is probably a good explanation itself, they were too weak over the flexing section, or too weak material.

Using aluminium is not possible due to it's low elasticity modulus (spring effect), they will break pretty fast - unless they are totally redesigned. That Japanese bracket are too rigid and will likely break just above the upper bolt hole where the two plates are mating, because that is the weakest section taking all flex out from a structural perspective. Additonally they are even welded on the edges, causing a more brittle structure in the material, which is an ideal point to start cracking up.

It is no point having these brackets as rigid as possible, they need to allow some flex spread over a certain length. The brackets main function is simply to hold the swaybar up in place, and undertake stretch and compression loads. The bushings is another story, but keep in mind that the 036 is NOT a race car, so harder bushings may be noticable, but is more a individual gut feeling IMO.

To save weight on these brackets by maintaining a identical design, and achieve necessary rigidity, titanium is probably the best choice. But the weight savings is minimal anyway.

My 2 cents. :-)
 
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