OWNER JC220

[maw1124]

Well, I'm not sure there's a difference there, Dave, so I want to probe it a bit more. Klink uses the term "frictionally" equivalent, which leads me to think that the larger swept area in the rear with the newer master cylinder means absolutely nothing in terms of stopping friction. I don't know why that would be.

So Klink, how do you conclude they are "frictionally" equivalent, despite the larger swept area, setting aside the switching master cylinder? Or are you saying the smaller brakes with the "old" master cylinder provides the same stopping force as the "new" master cylinder with larger rear brakes?

Am I to take it that the "new" master cylinder is similar to the "new" (post '92) .036 engine? Slightly "weaker" engine and slightly "weaker" master cylinder, almost admitting the prior cars were a bit overbuilt? Trying to get inside MB's (that is, "your") brain here...

maw

 

[JC220]

I believe my 500E does have a switchable master cylinder from factory.

 

[gsxr]

I can clarify a bit on the "new" master cylinder. The FSM explains it better than I can... see section G of job 42-0700, linked below. Note there are 4 pages of information:

http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/MB CD/W124/w124CD2/Program/Chassis/42-0700.pdf#page=24

This fancysetup was only offered on the late .036 in Europe; no other 124 chassis had it. Per the link above, the system was standard on most W140 with V8 or V12 engines, and the R129 V12 through ~1998 (pre-SA).

 

[gsxr]

I believe my 500E does have a switchable master cylinder from factory.

If it was produced in 1992 or earlier, it probably does not. The FSM indicates the switching MC was implemented as of 02/1993 production (a few months before facelift production began), the EPC says it was as of Euro chassis B927761.

 

[maw1124]

I can clarify a bit on the "new" master cylinder. The FSM explains it better than I can... see section G of job 42-0700, linked below. Note there are 4 pages of information:

http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/MB CD/W124/w124CD2/Program/Chassis/42-0700.pdf#page=24

This fancysetup was only offered on the late .036 in Europe; no other 124 chassis had it. Per the link above, the system was standard on most W140 with V8 or V12 engines, and the R129 V12 through ~1998 (pre-SA).

Thanks, Dave. It now makes total sense to me why larger rear brakes without the revised braking bias (from the "new" master cylinder) makes no difference, despite the additional swept area.

Cheers,

maw

P.S. Thanks for nothing, Klink. Jokes...

 

[JC220]

If it was produced in 1992 or earlier, it probably does not. The FSM indicates the switching MC was implemented as of 02/1993 production (a few months before facelift production began), the EPC says it was as of Euro chassis B927761.

Thanks Dave, the reason why I thought mine might have been switchable is because of the electrical plug / device located right under the MC in my 500E. (It is also connected via a vacuum line to the ASR/ABS Pump)



Thankyou very much to GSXR & Klink for their input on the rear SA brake upgrade I do think I will go ahead with it – if anyone has the SA rear callipers for a good price please PM me

The reason I am going ahead is I will be swapping over complete brake setups between cars as described a few posts back. I want the 500 to have 4x all new matching cross drilled rotors and it already has brand new discs so it would be a shame to junk them.

My 500's 'old' brakes to be swapped to the E36 AMG-



And the E36's brakes to then move onto the 320CE-



Regarding fitment issues my 124's are all good for the upgrades - One has new Lemforder LCA’s clearance and the rest have either original or newly fitted late type LCA’s. They all have stainless hoses too and the larger type rear brake shields. (My 500E will be getting new rear wheel bearings and larger sheilds anyway as part of restoration so that's OK) So I’m good to swap each brake set between cars.

 

[gsxr]

Thanks Dave, the reason why I thought mine might have been switchable is because of the electrical plug / device located right under the MC in my 500E. (It is also connected via a vacuum line to the ASR/ABS Pump)

View attachment 72012

Joe, that is the pre-charge pump for the ASR system. It should be present on all years of E500E.

 

[JC220]

My garage is still way too cold & miserable to start the welding... but some more work was done on the interior. The mat wells were pretty dirty. They were cleaned by the PO once every decade whether it needed it or it



Someone had also had a go at DIY metal pedal covers.... in 5mm steel



I used a small carpet spot cleaner machine to pull about a gallon of black water from the carpets –(No that’s NOT Guinness!) and fitted new gen-u-whine stainless pedal covers.




The driver’s undermat had to be replaced with another matching used one as there was a small mark in the original that wouldn’t come out. (There are new overmats for the CE also) And I was excited to receive my first ever cross drilled brake rotors – for my 500’s Silver Arrow conversion. ATE Made in Germany items – super quality stuff. Ordering ATE SA rears now too from the same vendor.

 

[Matin]

Really good stuff Joe. Extremely interested to see how you get along with the SA upgrade and if you notice any huge improvements. I’ve always wanted to do it, but, I have the early style LCA and I’m running AMG 3piece so not sure if they would even fit on that rim.

Curious to see your progress!

thanks

 

[JC220]

Really good stuff Joe. Extremely interested to see how you get along with the SA upgrade and if you notice any huge improvements. I’ve always wanted to do it, but, I have the early style LCA and I’m running AMG 3piece so not sure if they would even fit on that rim.

Curious to see your progress!

thanks

Hi Matin,


Thanks – yes I’ll post how the SA upgrade goes. I’ve ordered Metallic Gunmetal Grey Calliper paint for the SA items when they turn up. And have Brembo calliper decals. I’ll blast and spray the fronts whilst the rears from Jeff are already blasted / rebuilt and should just need sprayed.


My 500E already had late E500 / SL600 320mm brakes up front with stainless Hel brake lines so they were very good! I just lusted after cross drilled rotors and SA callipers so pulled the trigger so to speak. I’m not expecting to feel any major improvement at normal speeds but I sure am looking forward to testing them out. I’ll need to pull my 500E’s rear hubs sooner than expected to facilitate fitting larger rear brake shields (required for SA rear conversions). I may well fit new front brake shields at the same time also - perhaps late R129 items will play nicer with the SA upgrade. It’ll take a month or so to gather up all the parts needed then I’ll post details on how it went.

 

[JC220]

My E36 long going build has a retrofitted dark blue Sportline leather interior. (To replace the dark blue Euro cloth seats)

It was a 1987 200 model without ABS, power windows, power seats or.... anything before the AMG conversion. What it also lacked was Airbags.

A couple years back I bought a very good era correct wooden steering wheel - non Airbag. But then just recently spotted a R129 leather Steering wheel in the correct dark blue colour (hard to come by) and bought it. I kind of want to fit the leather wheel instead of the wood.... but will need to add SRS into the conversion list. Or find a w124 donor but that will be hard since most parts cars currently available have long since been hacked up. The power Sportline seats should already have the SRS seatbelt buckles which is good. At the very least I will need to trick the passenger airbag as it will have none. There is zero chance of finding a w124 facelift dash in the correct colour to get the passenger Airbag too.
One thing I would NOT do is fit a Airbag steering wheel and not have it functioning. Maybe I should stop adding stuff to the E36 and finish it!!

 

[JC220]

The leather seat restoration is still ongoing but nearing completion! The following pics show where I’m at now.




7 panels are 100% - 5 still need attention as the cracks are showing through. I try to use minimal filler but I’ve learned that in order to conceal the cracks you must completely skim over them in filler. Filling them and rubbing it down level does not work! I am getting a very good finish by just sponging on the dye so I am doing it that way.

 

[Jlaa]

JC220, I really admire your perseverance and dedication to perfecting a craft. Your leather filling activities are so neat to watch. I would have taken the lazy way out and reupholstered them.

 

[JC220]

JC220, I really admire your perseverance and dedication to perfecting a craft. Your leather filling activities are so neat to watch. I would have taken the lazy way out and reupholstered them.

Thanks & I’m glad you are finding the posts interesting! Yes it’s nice to learn something new - it is taking much longer than i thought but it will turn out better than I could have expected at the start so it’s worth it.

I also changed my mind on the armrest. Jeff had a flip top grey one so I bought it and when it turns up I intend to repair some minor scuffs and re-dye. It will be another nice little upgrade for the CE interior

 

[JC220]

The finished seat! It took quite alot of time to re-finish the whole seat but I am very pleased with the results. Compared to how this seat was before it’s looking alot better now! The investment was more in time than money on this task. Maybe 25 hours work to do this seat (Which was in terrible condition to be fair) and £20 of materials – just counting roughly what was used on this seat itself. It only required around 125ml of dye to put several coats on this seat but also 3x 50ml tubs of leather filler. The passenger seat in my CE is in much better condition than this driver’s seat was. And the rear seats I will be re-dying too. The rear seats are very good – possibly never even sat in!

As I said before I will create a w124 leather DIY in a couple weeks when I have more time. It will cover Steering wheel, Seat and Flip top armrest DIY leather restoration. It really isn’t difficult – just time consuming but actually quite enjoyable

 

[TerryA]

Joe,

That seat really looks great in the pics. I think the pics don’t necessarily show the color match but isn’t that just the lighting exposure at different times of day? The investment of time over £££ has certainly paid off for you.

I have no experience with these products. Obviously this beats replacing with new covers. My only question would be how do you think the restoration will hold up in real world wear and tear conditions.

Thanks for the how to pictorial.

Take Care

 

[JC220]

Joe,

That seat really looks great in the pics. I think the pics don’t necessarily show the color match but isn’t that just the lighting exposure at different times of day? The investment of time over £££ has certainly paid off for you.

I have no experience with these products. Obviously this beats replacing with new covers. My only question would be how do you think the restoration will hold up in real world wear and tear conditions.

Thanks for the how to pictorial.

Take Care

Hi Terry,

Thanks for the feedback! Yes the colour looks different in the pictures – that’s due to different lighting conditions etc. I’m not the best at photography & use my phone for these sort of pics. But the leather colour & sheen is an exact match on the original material.

For longevity – the filler material used is a tough speciality / professional product and sticks very well. It is a leather like / flexible / rubber-ish material which is very hard to sand. The Dye is also a very durable product I know this from sanding it back & working on it. My application of dye is also much thicker than the Original MB dye layer which is actually very thin in comparison.

I used extra components such as ‘Cross Linker’ and ‘Adhesion promoter’ in addition to the dye itself. The cross linker is an additive – mixed in 5- 10% qty to provide a tougher finish to both the Adhesion promoter & final dye finish. I think using modern restoration materials the seat finish will last just as long as the originals did – perhaps even longer if maintained correctly with leather creams etc which is what I intend to do.

New seat covers would be ££££ - assuming they are still even available at all. Re-trimming is possible but will de-value the car IMO as it will very seldom be to the exacting quality & finish of the original seats. So re-finishing the original leather seats is a great alternative. If piping is cracked or missing however the seat would not be restorable. It’s also worth noting that DIY leather re-finishing means you can also locate any colour of good used seat etc and re-finish it to match your car. Like the Grey Flip top armrest I purchased and will be re-colouring to match my CE interior and leave it as new – hopefully!

 

[gerryvz]

That is REALLY amazing work, Joe. What a marvel to observe.

Like Terry, the thing that makes me nervous about crack filling and refinishing, is how long the repairs last, particularly with use of the seats after the job has been completed. I always worry that use of the seats will make things re-appear in fairly short order. Obviously with use, the seats will have their natural creases in the leather. My question is ... does this regular use dislodge/disrupt the crack filler and finish work?

I have never really seen a "long term" view of a seat, say, several years after it's been doctored, and then used regularly again.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[JC220]

That is REALLY amazing work, Joe. What a marvel to observe.

Like Terry, the thing that makes me nervous about crack filling and refinishing, is how long the repairs last, particularly with use of the seats after the job has been completed. I always worry that use of the seats will make things re-appear in fairly short order. Obviously with use, the seats will have their natural creases in the leather. My question is ... does this regular use dislodge/disrupt the crack filler and finish work?

I have never really seen a "long term" view of a seat, say, several years after it's been doctored, and then used regularly again.

Cheers,
Gerry

Hi Gerry, thankyou! The seat does look nice in person and I’m looking forward to re-installing it.

Yes I understand people have concerns about longevity of the repairs. As I tried to relay in post 917 above my feeling from working at the original leather and through the course of carrying out these repairs is, if anything, the ‘new’ finish is thicker and tougher than the original. I can flex the leather by hand and it feels nice & soft / pliable even under the repair areas. Indeed the presence of the filler is not perceivable at all on the seats now.

Unlike my other w124’s I do intend to put some regular miles on this CE when it’s roadworthy again later this year. The first trip planned for the CE will be a 13 hour round trip to Kerry for example!

I’ll keep my owner’s thread updated on how the seat repairs last in the coming years / months all being well as the miles rack up on the 320CE

 

[Melville]

I think longevity will highly depend on the care with which the dye and filler was applied. Last year I looked at a cabrio where the selling dealership (an MB dealer) refinished the seats and steering wheel. It looked more like vinyl than leather and when you touched it, little creases would form as if the refinished layer wasn't totally bonded to the leather underneath. I passed on the car because of this (and the AC didn't work) because I could imagine that, very quickly, the refinished layer would start cracking and peeling. It would probably look far worse than if it had been left alone. Joe's work looks totally different, as it should after spending 25 hours carefully doing the driver's seat. I'm sure the dealer with the cabrio spent a couple of hours max on the whole interior.

 

[JC220]

I think longevity will highly depend on the care with which the dye and filler was applied. Last year I looked at a cabrio where the selling dealership (an MB dealer) refinished the seats and steering wheel. It looked more like vinyl than leather and when you touched it, little creases would form as if the refinished layer wasn't totally bonded to the leather underneath. I passed on the car because of this (and the AC didn't work) because I could imagine that, very quickly, the refinished layer would start cracking and peeling. It would probably look far worse than if it had been left alone. Joe's work looks totally different, as it should after spending 25 hours carefully doing the driver's seat. I'm sure the dealer with the cabrio spent a couple of hours max on the whole interior.

Yes I agree that the quality of leather refurbishment is highly dependent on the time expended and the prep work steps taken - just like autobody work! There are no such adhesion issues with this seat of mine

 

[JC220]

I eventually started the 320CE welding today - small task but it’s still a start!



I treated myself to a new Mig welder too for this resto. My old Mig is getting finicky on wire speed settings and was never good at low power range work- like car bodywork. This one goes down to 30amp and with 0.6mm wire it’s doing a nice job so far on the Mercedes metal

 

[Glen]

Looks great, very nice job!

 

[a777fan]

Looks great! What part of the car is that?


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[nocfn]

Looks
Like trunk lock area to me

 

[JC220]

Looks great, very nice job!

Thanks Glen!

Looks great! What part of the car is that?

It’s the boot latch – or what you guys call the Trunk latch!

A prior bodyshop had done a piss poor job of filling in around rust. So it was cut out & a clean rust free section fitted. I never filler or fibreglass rust holes – the only proper repair is to weld in new metal. All joints are checked with a torch behind to ensure there isn’t even the tiniest pinhole left – all solid metal. Then bodywork the outside and paint / cavity wax the welds from behind.

There are several such repairs like this required on my 320CE. At least a dozen... maybe as many as 25. However there aint much I can do about that – all old w124’s have rust here in our climate! The car has many good / solid areas too so it’s not a total basket case IMO.

What follows are pictures of the single largest repair required. In the past the CE was fitted with a new cheapie auto antenna and no drain tube. So water has been getting in for many years and rotted out one rear trunk tub. The same bodyshop slapped fibreglass & filler over this rust too. Fortunately I do already have a prefect used C124 rear tub so I am busy planning / making incisions both on the CE and the donor quarter to make a clean weld splice. Fuel tank must come out now too for safety in welding that close to the tank area.



In a couple of weeks the whole ‘trunk’ will be totally sound and in a fresh new coat of epoxy primer + satin black paint. I took off the exhaust backbox – which is in very good condition being a genuine replacement part. There is weird white stuff on some of the metal under the car – I think this is actually the remnants of the road salt from the Scotland roads!! Never seen it before........ anyone have better ideas what it could be?


I will be bodyworking the CE myself so the process will also be documented on here! Many hours toil ahead me thinks

 

[JC220]

Mmm slight problem. No one appears to make C124 rear repair arches or Cills etc! Basically no aftermarket repair body panels for the 124 CE series. The front fenders had already been replaced on my CE; but I have a spare new pair of aftermarket fenders anyway and will be fitting them prior to the repaint. (The new aftermarket fenders will require pre-fitting & working to the car prior to paint) From the dash board forwards C124's are the same as W124's so share the same front fenders.


Both rear wheel arches are rusty on the inside edge – not really sure how bad it is there until I hit it with a grinder & wire brush. There is a chance I can make custom repair sections if need be. But plan B is I’ve bought a pair of w124 saloon galvanised rear arch repair panels and will see if they are the same profile as the CE. Albeit I will only be using the minimum required to graft into my 320CE. Fingers crossed the C124 rear arch is similar to Saloon models!

 

[JC220]

So I did it again- bought another Benz This time a w140, S280. It’s a Black paint, grey leather totally original car with 44k miles on it. All history and old MOT’s to back the very low mileage up I had a close look through all of that. A 280 didn’t enthuse me much but the car’s condition is almost pristine. It has sat for a couple of years (like all JC220 purchases!!) but when I put a battery in it, it fired right up and all electrics appear to work just fine. The spare has never been mounted and all the tyres are old / cracked so need replaced ASAP.

I’ve never even driven a w140 so it’s totally new to me! The low miles show on the car in its condition - but some items will still require attention such as the thermostat due to inactivity and age. It is a model year 1997 / final facelift so it should not have Eco Junk. I did look at the wire condition and they looked AOK. I’ll update when I pick it up next week

 

[Trae]

Sounds like fully blown MB disease.

Congrats!

 

[gerryvz]

Yep. He’s got the disease. Unfortunately he’s so far down the rabbit hole now, he can never escape.


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[JC220]

Yep. He’s got the disease. Unfortunately he’s so far down the rabbit hole now, he can never escape.

Yes it’s too late for me now – I’m done for!


Just ‘officially’ completed the deal on the W140. On doing more homework the car was actually delivered in Singapore in 1997 then imported to UK in 2003. The vendor had no idea it was an import! Sure enough on checking the service book there are Singapore delivery & service stamps early on. Genuine 44k miles. Collecting it in 48 hrs. In the meantime here are some pics the vendor had sent me. First mission for me is to detail it inside & out then do some minor prep for MOT. It really shouldn’t require much for MOT – I hope. The CE resto will continue un-interrupted

 

[JC220]

I picked up the W140 this evening. Put a battery in & it fired up no issues. Got it on a trailer and off home safe. It’s quite a huge car - only just fitted on the trailer with the tyres touching both sides!


What a comfortable car though. Just been letting it run, warmup and moving it around my drive. I think it’s possibly the comfiest car I’ve sat in. The interior condition is as expected at the low miles. Exterior wise there is some laquer peel here and there and a couple of small rust spots. I’ll take care of those. First thing is get it a good clean this weekend. Very much looking forward to driving this W140 soon

 

[gerryvz]

Confirmed ... he’s too far gone now.

Lord help him if he were ever to drive a W140 with M120 engine.


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[gsxr]

I picked up the W140 this evening. Put a battery in & it fired up no issues. Got it on a trailer and off home safe. It’s quite a huge car - only just fitted on the trailer with the tyres touching both sides!

What a comfortable car though. Just been letting it run, warmup and moving it around my drive. I think it’s possibly the comfiest car I’ve sat in. The interior condition is as expected at the low miles. Exterior wise there is some laquer peel here and there and a couple of small rust spots. I’ll take care of those. First thing is get it a good clean this weekend. Very much looking forward to driving this W140 soon

Joe, I felt the same way. Super comfortable, super quiet, solid as a tank. But YUUUUGE! I can't quite tell in the photos, is yours a standard wheelbase (W140) or long wheelbase (V140)? Mine was a 1994 S500 LWB / V140.051 chassis, sold last year to a forum member.

Psssst: Someone accidentally put the steering wheel on the wrong side of your S280!

 

[Melville]

That car must have cost an absolute fortune in Singapore in 1997. With import taxes it would probably be many multiples of what someone paid in the USA, UK etc. Who knows, maybe you are driving Lee Kuan Yew’s car (first PM of Singapore)!

 

[JC220]

Confirmed ... he’s too far gone now.

Lord help him if he were ever to drive a W140 with M120 engine.

Yep – that is the next stage of this illness!

Joe, I felt the same way. Super comfortable, super quiet, solid as a tank. But YUUUUGE! I can't quite tell in the photos, is yours a standard wheelbase (W140) or long wheelbase (V140)? Mine was a 1994 S500 LWB / V140.051 chassis, sold last year to a forum member.

[FONT=&quot]Psssst: Someone accidentally put the steering wheel on the wrong side of your S280! [/FONT]

Dave mine is the ‘Pedestrian’ version w140 This is the VIN decoder for it-


https://www.datamb.com/vin/4bGQrAaO0x7EOkm5B

I wonder what the option called - 836 ADDITIONAL PARTS FOR SINGAPORE would entail? It has an indicator window on the air cleaner box like the India W124 did….. might be stuff like that I’m not sure.

RE- the steering wheel with having the LHD 500E too I have been known to leap into the wrong side of my car in carparks and have to sit a few minutes before sheepishly getting out and going around to the other side hoping no-one noticed

That car must have cost an absolute fortune in Singapore in 1997. With import taxes it would probably be many multiples of what someone paid in the USA, UK etc. Who knows, maybe you are driving Lee Kuan Yew’s car (first PM of Singapore)!

Yes I have been wondering who might have purchased the car back in the day. It is also quite rare to have a car imported like that into the UK at 6 years old so whoever did it and paid the UK import duties in 2003 was keen on getting it here. The UK registration book lists one former keeper up until 2015 when the guy I bought it off purchased it. He said it was a 1 lady owner car who he bought it off - but also had no idea it was an import until I told him and showed him the Singapore dealer stamps the car has in it's books. One thing is for sure it has led a very quiet existence sometimes covering only a few hundred miles between annual inspections. I have all records for the car which for low mileage cars I feel is imperative! I would not have bought it without the full history - the price agreed with the private seller was also fairly good, not a steal but I think on the good side. He had not advertised the car for sale at all - he seen a WTB add of mine and responded so I was the first and only person to view it.


I’ll post better pics of it this weekend. IMHO it’s a bit of a time capsule particularly in the interior. A friend suggested I put 18’s on it – but I adore the originality and it’s staying that way!

 

[TerryA]

Congrats Joe,

But I gotta say, you are one sick puppy!!

Do you live on a farm or something with a huge barn? Where the hell do you park your fleet?

 

[JC220]

Congrats Joe,

But I gotta say, you are one sick puppy!!

Do you live on a farm or something with a huge barn? Where the hell do you park your fleet?

Hi Terry,

No I don’t have a farm or a large barn but I wish I did have more space! I live in a town and keep the cars at my house.

There is a single heated garage which is where the 500E lives all year around. Then a double garage with roof space at the back of my house. In there is where I do welding / bodywork and keep the E36 & 320CE. With the cars in there working space is very limited. The roofspace is jammed with spare parts, wheels bumpers & what not.

Recently I got some box section section & fabricates a double length carport with the only ‘free’ space I had along one side of the house:



That was the frame up after being galvanised and before being roofed. It is made to measure 2x W124 saloons and until recently that meant the 300E-24 had it to itself. Now the W140 has arrived it will be moved forward and an extra roof sheet added to allow the 140’s bulk to fit in. The carport will also have the side sheeted in this summer for better protection from storms etc next winter.

Ultimately the carport is not ideal storage. It keeps the rain, frost & snow off but humidity still gets in at times. Other than that I’m totally out of space except for a large driveway where 2 other DD Benzes live.

I intend to fabricate a single bay at the back of my existing double garage which will also have a lift in it & washdown gully. That way a car can go in for restoration and get steam cleaned underneath whilst up in the air. And another car could go in under it for garage space

 

[JC220]

Here are some pics of the W140’s interior. I still need to dash shine + leather cream it but it looks pretty good so far. Those are the original overmats etc - not replaced. Unfortunately it ate a rear window regulator just last night so I had to pull one door card The interior condition is very close to new











I also encountered some Eco Junk in the wing mirror of all places. On the bright side I got to look underneath the car – and it’s A1 condition. Zero rust on the body, some minor stuff that I’ll clean on the subframes and even the exhaust system is still shining with no rust! It’s a great car

 

[Klink]

So I did it again- bought another Benz This time a w140, S280. It’s a Black paint, grey leather totally original car with 44k miles on it. All history and old MOT’s to back the very low mileage up I had a close look through all of that. A 280 didn’t enthuse me much but the car’s condition is almost pristine. It has sat for a couple of years (like all JC220 purchases!!) but when I put a battery in it, it fired right up and all electrics appear to work just fine. The spare has never been mounted and all the tyres are old / cracked so need replaced ASAP.

I’ve never even driven a w140 so it’s totally new to me! The low miles show on the car in its condition - but some items will still require attention such as the thermostat due to inactivity and age. It is a model year 1997 / final facelift so it should not have Eco Junk. I did look at the wire condition and they looked AOK. I’ll update when I pick it up next week

Welcome to the German Fattie Fetish club! I loved 140s from my first contact with them at pre-introduction training in 1991, and never stopped. There’s no eco-junk wiring in that one except for the exterior mirrors, and the connector pigtail harness on the pollution sensor for the ACC, if so equipped.

Here’s my two: ‘99 SWB 320 and ‘94 LWB 500...

 

[Klink]

A friend suggested I put 18’s on it

He’s wrong, but that friend always is. In this case, you’d actually have to do it to realize how much so. They tend to overwhelm the less than 5L. and swb cars, unless you live in a region with billiard table smooth roads. Like all MBs of this era, they have very high initial suspension friction and really need some sidewall to work well. The hard part nowadays is finding good performance oriented tires in the 16” wheel size. The 3.2L 6 cylinder cars were sometimes fitted with different tire sizes depending on the region, either 225/60 or 235/60 each using the same 7.5” wheel. I’m not sure if they did that with the 2.8L cars, too. What’s yours have?

 

[JC220]

Welcome to the German Fattie Fetish club! I loved 140s from my first contact with them at pre-introduction training in 1991, and never stopped. There’s no eco-junk wiring in that one except for the exterior mirrors, and the connector pigtail harness on the pollution sensor for the ACC, if so equipped.

Here’s my two: ‘99 SWB 320 and ‘94 LWB 500...

Hold on now I thought I was already a paying member of hairy Helga’s fanclub


That’s good to know on the Eco Junk –thankyou. I re-wired the second mirror just now so it’s done and out of the way. It does have A/C / climate control so maybe I will be checking that second harness you mention.

That’s a very nice pair of w140’s you have! They look very clean. Is that a 500E tucked away too?

He’s wrong, but that friend always is. In this case, you’d actually have to do it to realize how much so. They tend to overwhelm the less than 5L. and swb cars, unless you live in a region with billiard table smooth roads. Like all MBs of this era, they have very high initial suspension friction and really need some sidewall to work well. The hard part nowadays is finding good performance oriented tires in the 16” wheel size. The 3.2L 6 cylinder cars were sometimes fitted with different tire sizes depending on the region, either 225/60 or 235/60 each using the same 7.5” wheel. I’m not sure if they did that with the 2.8L cars, too. What’s yours have?

Yes I have became a fan of factory MB wheels. They are much stronger than any aftermarket stuff and the (usually larger) tyre sidewall always makes for more comfort compared to sizing up rims. This one has 225 60 R16 tyres fitted all heavily age cracked to the point of letting out air. They will be replaced before it goes on the road soon with new Goodyear or Michelin Tyres. I ordered some new stuff for it too. Stainless brake hoses & new rear brake rotors + Pads as the originals are rusted quite badly. The fronts were rusty but have cleaned up well on thier own just from moving the car around my driveway.

I did look under the Oil filler cap on this car too - holy crap so clean! Oil pressure is pegged at 3 Bar all the time even at 500 rpm hot - in drive. It is 100 mile off the 45k mile service. The PO already had it serviced including the gearbox about 400 miles / 2 years ago. But for completion of the service book I'll take it to a MB dealer for a service...... that it doesnt actually need

 

[Klink]

Hold on now I thought I was already a paying member of hairy Helga’s fanclub


That’s good to know on the Eco Junk –thankyou. I re-wired the second mirror just now so it’s done and out of the way. It does have A/C / climate control so maybe I will be checking that second harness you mention.

That’s a very nice pair of w140’s you have! They look very clean. Is that a 500E tucked away too?





Yes I have became a fan of factory MB wheels. They are much stronger than any aftermarket stuff and the (usually larger) tyre sidewall always makes for more comfort compared to sizing up rims. This one has 225 60 R16 tyres fitted all heavily age cracked to the point of letting out air. They will be replaced before it goes on the road soon with new Goodyear or Michelin Tyres. I ordered some new stuff for it too. Stainless brake hoses & new rear brake rotors + Pads as the originals are rusted quite badly. The fronts were rusty but have cleaned up well on thier own just from moving the car around my driveway.

I did look under the Oil filler cap on this car too - holy crap so clean! Oil pressure is pegged at 3 Bar all the time even at 500 rpm hot - in drive. It is 100 mile off the 45k mile service. The PO already had it serviced including the gearbox about 400 miles / 2 years ago. But for completion of the service book I'll take it to a MB dealer for a service...... that it doesnt actually need

Oh yes, in that photo, that’s “Becky“ the ‘93 500E in the garage (I didn’t name her, a friend did). The two 140s and 500E are pretty fab.

You may have a defective oil pressure gauge sensor, and/or a broken coolant thermostat that is keeping things (including the oil) too cool. The oil pressure isn’t generally that high at hot idle.

Sharing some food for thought/personal 140 experience here:
I’m not familiar with the granular specifics of the 280, as we did not get them here in yank, but with a 320 that was originally fitted with 225s, it was permissible to convert them 235s. You just have to remember to do the spare tire also so that it does not create problems if it has to be put into use. As the speedos usually read a little high anyway, it creates no problems in that regard. Euro 3.2L cars were tire upsized to the 235s as of ‘93. USA 3.2 cars retained the 225s for CAFE. The 2.8s probably used the 225s worldwide, but I’m not sure. I’m telling you all this because most people find the ride greatly enhanced with the 235s, and the tires seem to last a little longer, too. A car this heavy yet still so agile loves to gobble up tires, and depending on your market conditions, it may be easier to find appropriate tires in one size versus the other. Obviously, initial steering response is a hair more sharp with the 225s, but if you get a performance oriented summer euro tire, that could be offset in the event you choose to use the 235s. The 235s greatly reduce impact harshness, such as over concrete expansion joints, which we have a lot of here. Obviously, they also slightly diminish your acceleration, which you may or may not find a desirable trade-off given the power available. That said, I have done the 235 upsize even on the 603 turbo diesel cars here and still find it an overall improvement. There’s no “wrong” answer here...

 

[maw1124]

To this point, upsizing the tires all around on the S55 made me certain to do it on the 500E next go round. That extra sidewall may offer a slight performance downgrade (as if I’m driving the car at the limits anyway), but very high spec tires takes care of much of that. And the extra ride quality and rubber over road imperfections is worth it to me. Less harsh but equally ready, for all intents and purposes.

maw

 

[JC220]

Oh yes, in that photo, that’s “Becky“ the ‘93 500E in the garage (I didn’t name her, a friend did). The two 140s and 500E are pretty fab.

You may have a defective oil pressure gauge sensor, and/or a broken coolant thermostat that is keeping things (including the oil) too cool. The oil pressure isn’t generally that high at hot idle.

Sharing some food for thought/personal 140 experience here:
I’m not familiar with the granular specifics of the 280, as we did not get them here in yank, but with a 320 that was originally fitted with 225s, it was permissible to convert them 235s. You just have to remember to do the spare tire also so that it does not create problems if it has to be put into use. As the speedos usually read a little high anyway, it creates no problems in that regard. Euro 3.2L cars were tire upsized to the 235s as of ‘93. USA 3.2 cars retained the 225s for CAFE. The 2.8s probably used the 225s worldwide, but I’m not sure. I’m telling you all this because most people find the ride greatly enhanced with the 235s, and the tires seem to last a little longer, too. A car this heavy yet still so agile loves to gobble up tires, and depending on your market conditions, it may be easier to find appropriate tires in one size versus the other. Obviously, initial steering response is a hair more sharp with the 225s, but if you get a performance oriented summer euro tire, that could be offset in the event you choose to use the 235s. The 235s greatly reduce impact harshness, such as over concrete expansion joints, which we have a lot of here. Obviously, they also slightly diminish your acceleration, which you may or may not find a desirable trade-off given the power available. That said, I have done the 235 upsize even on the 603 turbo diesel cars here and still find it an overall improvement. There’s no “wrong” answer here...

RE Oil pressure I think it does need a new T stat. It idles just above 80c rock solid. Seems a little low. But did these never run full 3 bar? I would expect rebuilt or very good engine to stay at or above 3 bar. My 320CE sits about 2.75 bar so does the 500E and they both have new stats and run 87c.

Thanks for the tips on the tyres I will certainly consider upsizing. It does have a brand new spare tyre it would be a shame to junk the tyre but perhaps it’s too old anyway to be safe.

I am becoming a w140 convert! Double glazed windows, sound deadening quilts and padding everywhere..... I’m a sick pup now! The level of engineering is turned up to 11 on these machines

 

[gerryvz]

I’m a sick pup now! The level of engineering is turned up to 11 on these machines

Oh boy. He’s sounding more and more like Klink with every 140-related post he makes.

Not good, folks. Not good.........

 

[Klink]

RE Oil pressure I think it does need a new T stat. It idles just above 80c rock solid. Seems a little low. But did these never run full 3 bar? I would expect rebuilt or very good engine to stay at or above 3 bar. My 320CE sits about 2.75 bar so does the 500E and they both have new stats and run 87c.

Thanks for the tips on the tyres I will certainly consider upsizing. It does have a brand new spare tyre it would be a shame to junk the tyre but perhaps it’s too old anyway to be safe.

I am becoming a w140 convert! Double glazed windows, sound deadening quilts and padding everywhere..... I’m a sick pup now! The level of engineering is turned up to 11 on these machines

My '99 320 usually runs less than 3 at hot idle in gear with Mobil1 5W-50 in it. None of this is bothering me. Just make sure that your gauge is showing zero with the key on and the engine not running.

THE END OF HISTORY - cars, design, culture, people

 

[a777fan]

My '99 320 usually runs less than 3 at hot idle in gear with Mobil1 5W-50 in it. None of this is bothering me. Just make sure that your gauge is showing zero with the key on and the engine not running.

http://www.auto-didakt.com/cars_blog_leser/mercedes-benz_w140_design_review_history_bruno_sacco.html

Excellent article. Thanks for the link. I now have a new url to waste my time on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gsxr]

At hot idle in gear, almost any of my 124's oil pressure will not read over ~1.5 bar. I can't think of a single engine that was anywhere remotely close to 3 bar at hot 500rpm idle!!

If you are always seeing 3 bar, I'd suspect something is wrong. I mean, if it's at 3 bar at hot idle, when does it EVER show less than 3 bar when running?

The oil pressure sensors are a very common failure, usually indicating a lower pressure than actual. I've had to replace the buggers on almost every single one of my vehicles. Only get the OE/OEM Hella/VDO sensor, btw. A recent BanzWhirled post chronicled some poor fellow chasing a major oil leak and it turned out his almost-new Meyle oil pressure sensor was leaking like a sieve. There's a date code on the sender, if it's original, I'd replace it regardless of the low miles on the odo.

 

[gerryvz]