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Leaking exhaust resonator pipe - 400E / E420
- Thread starter Kyiv
- Start date
Dave, as always thanks! Looking at TimeValve, I only see this:
Is exhaust on 400E identical to a 1986-1988 300E? Also, do you think there is any detrimental effect of a leaking exhaust in my case? It's not particularly loud. Somewhat resembles a late 60s American V8 idling
Is exhaust on 400E identical to a 1986-1988 300E? Also, do you think there is any detrimental effect of a leaking exhaust in my case? It's not particularly loud. Somewhat resembles a late 60s American V8 idling
Bottom of the page on their site says "Sorry, not all systems are shown in our on-line catalog. If your system is not shown, please contact us."
URL: Mercedes Benz Exhaust System Index for Euro Models
I'd swear there was a post by sprnova a couple years ago with a ton of pictures of the Timevalve Y-pipe on his 500E, but I cannot find it. Either the search function isn't working right, or some posts were lost in the migration to the new forum. I think I saved all the pics at home so I may at least be able to upload them to my site.
URL: Mercedes Benz Exhaust System Index for Euro Models
I'd swear there was a post by sprnova a couple years ago with a ton of pictures of the Timevalve Y-pipe on his 500E, but I cannot find it. Either the search function isn't working right, or some posts were lost in the migration to the new forum. I think I saved all the pics at home so I may at least be able to upload them to my site.
I have a custom-made Y-pipe for the E500E, sitting in my basement, that I'd be happy to sell you. It's never been used and new. It was made as part of a group buy that one of our members (VinceC) did some years ago. It would require being welded into place, where the existing center resonator (where you have the hole) fits, but it would fit.
The Timevalve pipe is supposedly a direct bolt-in for the E500E, but I believe may also require being cut and welded in for a 400E, as the center resonator design (which is a single piece) is a bit different on the 400E.
Last I knew, Timevalve was selling the Y-pipes for around $400? I'd let my pipe go for $150 + shipping. Let me know if you want photos of it. I was considering doing a production run of the pipes (with E500E flanges installed, making it a bolt-in) when I lived in Texas, but my divorce and other stuff got in the way at the time.
The Timevalve pipe is supposedly a direct bolt-in for the E500E, but I believe may also require being cut and welded in for a 400E, as the center resonator design (which is a single piece) is a bit different on the 400E.
Last I knew, Timevalve was selling the Y-pipes for around $400? I'd let my pipe go for $150 + shipping. Let me know if you want photos of it. I was considering doing a production run of the pipes (with E500E flanges installed, making it a bolt-in) when I lived in Texas, but my divorce and other stuff got in the way at the time.
The Y-pipe is only a possible bolt-in (like Timevalve) for 500E, which has separate resonator + muffler that bolt together.
The 400E has a 1-piece resonator+muffler and any Y-pipe would have to be cut/welded in place.
Found a photo of the Timevalve pipe that sprnova purchased circa late 2016, sample attached below. Fitment was not ideal at the cat because the TV flanges were not identical to factory MB, but he was able to make it work.
The 400E has a 1-piece resonator+muffler and any Y-pipe would have to be cut/welded in place.
Found a photo of the Timevalve pipe that sprnova purchased circa late 2016, sample attached below. Fitment was not ideal at the cat because the TV flanges were not identical to factory MB, but he was able to make it work.
Fox Germany still make E500E Y Pipes (or resonators) and back boxes to order. All stainless steel and nicely made. Pics have been posted on the board before. I have the Fox Y Pipe and back box on my 500E and it sounds very nice.
It bolts up to the stock factory cats. But I believe you would have to fit Fox Y or resonator AND back box in that case. But the prices are reasonable IMO
It bolts up to the stock factory cats. But I believe you would have to fit Fox Y or resonator AND back box in that case. But the prices are reasonable IMO
So, then, factory part, on 400E does not to be welded?
If the 400E pieces are clamped together, they are replacement parts, not originals. These will be a slip-fit with normal external clamp.
Yes. From the factory it was a 1-piece assembled welded together.
All E500E have a different setup, with the resonator having a flange with a gasket, and 3 bolts attaching the resonator to the rear muffler. Photo attached below showing the 036 setup with a Y-pipe bolted in place of the resonator.
Any 400E install is going to require welding. None of the aftermarket Y-pipes are designed for a slip-fit; at least I've never seen one.
Found my old post - adding here for info of what the Fox system looks like
EDIT- Hmm the photos didn't come over.
Please refer to this link:
Ok so here's some pics. The system is very well made- big fat smooth welds, mandrel bends and just a real high quality feel to it. It arrived well wrapped and came with the fitting kit. (Although I'll be using my own bolts & copper nuts to fit):
EDIT- Hmm the photos didn't come over.
Please refer to this link:
OWNER - JC220 | Owners and Their Cars
AHE is trailer hitch control. Seems that your car has one but it is not set in either the rear Sam or CGW, put that trailer recognition or AHE as present in one these units (not sure which one or both) then this CAN "error" will go. Not really an error more a wrong status... Next what you could...
www.500eboard.co
@Jlaa,
The forum's default set-up is to allow members to have three (actually four) options when it comes to attaching images:
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In scenario number four above, If an image is linked from an external source, it is automatically imported to this forum, proxied at that time, stored as both thumbnail and full-size image, and displayed as a thumbnail that can be clicked to be expanded.
In scenario number four above, if an image is linked from an internal source, it is generally displayed as a full-size image. I believe if the thumbnail is linked, then it will be displayed in the linked post as the thumbnail. If the full-sized image is linked, then it will NOT be reduced, and will then be displayed as the full size image in the new post.
GSXR's request to have the forum default to displaying thumbnails is the result of using Windows NT on his Intel Pentium and Pentium II-class microcomputers, with a 12-inch CRT display, and a USRobotics 56k V.92 dial-up modem. But I honored his request anyway, because he is a valued contributor and admin here.
The forum's default set-up is to allow members to have three (actually four) options when it comes to attaching images:
1) attach an image and leave it in a group or image pool at the bottom of a post (along with other images if multiples are attached)
2) attach an image and insert it in-line at a specfied place, using the "Thumbnail" button at the time of attachment
3) attach an image and insert it in-line at a specified place, using the "Full Size" button at the time of attachment
4) link an image from an external source, or an internal image already posted to the forum, using the [ IMG] bbcode
In all images in scenarios one through three above, the image is automatically resized to a thumbnail at the time of import/attachment, It is stored in the forum's file system both as a thumbnail and a full-sized image, and displayed as a thumbnail in the actual post.
In scenario number four above, If an image is linked from an external source, it is automatically imported to this forum, proxied at that time, stored as both thumbnail and full-size image, and displayed as a thumbnail that can be clicked to be expanded.
In scenario number four above, if an image is linked from an internal source, it is generally displayed as a full-size image. I believe if the thumbnail is linked, then it will be displayed in the linked post as the thumbnail. If the full-sized image is linked, then it will NOT be reduced, and will then be displayed as the full size image in the new post.
GSXR's request to have the forum default to displaying thumbnails is the result of using Windows NT on his Intel Pentium and Pentium II-class microcomputers, with a 12-inch CRT display, and a USRobotics 56k V.92 dial-up modem. But I honored his request anyway, because he is a valued contributor and admin here.
Kiev,
I have the Timevalve Y-Pipe on my 500E. I will post some pics later this AM.
It is a direct bolt on part that replaces the stock MB 500E resonator.
I bought mine before they moved the shop to Florida. I’m sure they still have the jig. Not sure what the price would be today. Mine costed over $300.00 quite a while ago.
lol
Kiev,
I have the Timevalve Y-Pipe on my car. I will post some pics later this AM.
I bought mine before they moved the shop to Florida. I’m sure they still have the jig.
Not sure what the price would be today. Mine costed over $300.00 quite a while ago.
lol
Edit:
Here's my Timevalve set up.
Sorry for the delay I got busy and forgot
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TerryA, the exhaust piping, and the bottom(!) of your car looks lovely. Something is mesmerizing about looking at an in-proper-condition retro fundament of w124 V8s. Thanks for sharing!
I was lucky Gerry had a no-brand Y pipe gathering dust, at $150. Don't have exhaust rebuild plans in the nearest observable future, unless a specific part fails, but maybe next year. Trying to prioritize
I was lucky Gerry had a no-brand Y pipe gathering dust, at $150. Don't have exhaust rebuild plans in the nearest observable future, unless a specific part fails, but maybe next year. Trying to prioritize
Happy to let the Y-pipe go! I've had it for a long time, from when I lived in Texas, so probably sitting around at least 7 years. I think there's a prior thread here on the forum where I tried to sell it some years back. It should be arriving to you later today, and is currently in Chantilly, VA.
Today I figured out that 124 491 23 00 is a resonator + 2 in-flow pipes - as one piece. My usual go-to shop that said I need 124 491 23 00 to fix the leak is busy, so I took it to another shop, where guy actually showed me where the leak is (see red arrow; it's on the top of the pipe)
What I also realized is that Gerry's Y-pipe (top) is not long enough to fully replace 2 pipes that flow into the resonator, unlike Time Valve's (bottom)
Now, you can see waht my original piping looks like, and the guy from the 2nd shop says, that although Gerry's Y-pipe is just long enough to cover the hole, he won't do it because both in-flow pipes need to be replaced. He sent me off to find replacements, but, as I've just figured out, they are part of the 124 491 23 00.
Question to @gerryvz or @gsxr , how much time do you think it should take a shop to fabricate pipe extensions so that final product is equal to proper 124 491 23 00/Time Valve unit? Alternatively, would you just find another shop that will weld in Y-pipe as is because my 2 in-flowing pipes look otherwise OK?
Thanks
What I also realized is that Gerry's Y-pipe (top) is not long enough to fully replace 2 pipes that flow into the resonator, unlike Time Valve's (bottom)
Now, you can see waht my original piping looks like, and the guy from the 2nd shop says, that although Gerry's Y-pipe is just long enough to cover the hole, he won't do it because both in-flow pipes need to be replaced. He sent me off to find replacements, but, as I've just figured out, they are part of the 124 491 23 00.
Question to @gerryvz or @gsxr , how much time do you think it should take a shop to fabricate pipe extensions so that final product is equal to proper 124 491 23 00/Time Valve unit? Alternatively, would you just find another shop that will weld in Y-pipe as is because my 2 in-flowing pipes look otherwise OK?
Thanks
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Kiev,
Why don’t you try to find a used resonator with better pipes and flanges to weld up the Y-Pipe.
You definitely need the flange parts of the old resonator pipe. You could have new steel pipe welded in from the old flanges up to the new Y-pipe.
The right way would be to have a fabricator jig up your old resonator so that both attachment points are in the correct position and then cut or remove the parts not needed anymore and weld in the Y-Pipe.
Why don’t you try to find a used resonator with better pipes and flanges to weld up the Y-Pipe.
You definitely need the flange parts of the old resonator pipe. You could have new steel pipe welded in from the old flanges up to the new Y-pipe.
The right way would be to have a fabricator jig up your old resonator so that both attachment points are in the correct position and then cut or remove the parts not needed anymore and weld in the Y-Pipe.
A competent exhaust shop (and I would look carefully to find a good one) can work miracles, and it would be NO PROBLEM to have them weld on both extensions and flanges to adapt the Y-pipe to whatever situation you have.
It comes down 100% to the skill, and the willingness, of the shop to do what you want them and they need to do.
That's been my experience.
Cheers,
Gerry
If the current shop is reluctant to do the work, find a different shop. Note that when it comes to welding exhaust pipes, skill level can vary widely between shops, so be careful out there.
Also remember that nobody will never see these parts while the car is on the ground, so it's more critical the end result is functional even if it isn't pretty.
Also remember that nobody will never see these parts while the car is on the ground, so it's more critical the end result is functional even if it isn't pretty.
The problem with Virgina part of DC is that there aren't that many places that do welding, those that do are all super, extra busy and they don't fabricate. Those that can fabricate things are too quick to point out/comment that "the y pipe is wrong", "why you wanna do it", "it will vibrate", "it will be loud", "it's not the right way to do it", "diameter too big, diameter too small", members of this forum are internet idiots", etc etc. Finally followed by "ok, I can fabricate pipes, but only in a month, call me in two weeks", blah-blah-blah, which I take as "I'm not that interested in this job, screw you, in another life I was a nuclear engineer". It's a @ucking zoo, I say
At any rate, my regular shop that I've been domesticating since moving to Virginia has found a brand new, Mercedes resonator-to-muffler part. Supposedly last one in US. Will be installed today, so I can have this matter closed. $1k for parts and labor.
Just about the only thing I miss about Los Angeles is the abundant supply of service providers in a relatively small radius
At any rate, my regular shop that I've been domesticating since moving to Virginia has found a brand new, Mercedes resonator-to-muffler part. Supposedly last one in US. Will be installed today, so I can have this matter closed. $1k for parts and labor.
Just about the only thing I miss about Los Angeles is the abundant supply of service providers in a relatively small radius
$1K? Ouch!! I’ve changed that resonator laying on my back in the driveway in about an hour.
I have to qualify that I have had a lot of practice between removing my original MB stock resonator and installing my TV Y-pipe and then to remove the Y-Pipe and replace it with my fabbed up Magnaflow/Camero muffler/resonator. Off/On, Off/On depending on my mood VS how much noise I can stand.
How much for the part?
Anyway, Problem Solved
lol
I have to qualify that I have had a lot of practice between removing my original MB stock resonator and installing my TV Y-pipe and then to remove the Y-Pipe and replace it with my fabbed up Magnaflow/Camero muffler/resonator. Off/On, Off/On depending on my mood VS how much noise I can stand.
How much for the part?
Anyway, Problem Solved
lol
Terry, the 400E resonator is different than the 500E. It doesn't have bolted flanges at each end... requires cutting to install, if the original is still present from the factory. See pics it post 12 and 24. Can't see enough of the pipe between resonator and muffler in post 24 to determine if that unit is factory original (welded) or a slip-fit factory replacement.
New 400E resonator is $630 list, ~$500 discount... should be available in Germany. MB generally doesn't stock this stuff stateside which may be why only 1 was on this side of the pond.
https://www.mbdirectparts.com/oem-parts/mercedes-benz-exhaust-pipe-1244912300
New 400E resonator is $630 list, ~$500 discount... should be available in Germany. MB generally doesn't stock this stuff stateside which may be why only 1 was on this side of the pond.
https://www.mbdirectparts.com/oem-parts/mercedes-benz-exhaust-pipe-1244912300
Terry, the 400E resonator is different than the 500E. It doesn't have bolted flanges at each end... requires cutting to install, if the original is still present from the factory. See pics it post 12 and 24. Can't see enough of the pipe between resonator and muffler in post 24 to determine if that unit is factory original (welded) or a slip-fit factory replacement.
New 400E resonator is $630 list, ~$500 discount... should be available in Germany. MB generally doesn't stock this stuff stateside which may be why only 1 was on this side of the pond.
https://www.mbdirectparts.com/oem-parts/mercedes-benz-exhaust-pipe-1244912300
I see said the blind man. Still a lot of dough.
If you’re getting truly OE parts, not Eisenpacher(?) aftermarket, shipped and installed for $1000, you’ve done pretty well I believe...
As your problem sounds solved, for someone else’s future reference:
I FINALLY removed these (almost new) 2 exhaust pieces from my 400 parts car...
Nice front pipe/cats taking even longer to extricate; just not the man I used to be.
And it would probably be a challenge for me to ship.
As your problem sounds solved, for someone else’s future reference:
I FINALLY removed these (almost new) 2 exhaust pieces from my 400 parts car...
Nice front pipe/cats taking even longer to extricate; just not the man I used to be.
And it would probably be a challenge for me to ship.
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AH! Got it... in that case, $1k is not bad. The two items are $1200 MSRP combined, $900 from Naperville.
Done! I keep forgetting to check messages...
Terry, just to clarify, both Y pipe and a muffler are from TimeValve? How much different the sound is vs stock?
Thanks
Those 2 rear pieces look mint! I'm sure someone with a 400E will snap them up. If not, drop me a line.
The front catalyst pipe is NLA from MB. If it's in really good condition, and the honeycombs are all intact, I bet there are a few people who would pay handsomely for that piece. You are right, it won't be easy to ship, but it is possible.
NorthNH, how much for both units?
Timevalve only makes the Y-pipe. They don't offer a muffler for the 400E or 500E that I'm aware of.
Only aftermarket mufflers I've seen are RENNtech (NLA), Remus (NLA), Brabus (pretty sure NLA), Fox and Leistung (still available).
@kiev...Damn, if I had thought you were still looking for another solution...
Unbelievably I got an offer ($650, local pickup without shipping
) just MOMENTS after I posted.
Happy to let you know if there’s a glitch with the sale.
Re: EBERspaecher...Nothing wrong at all; I think the OE are better black-coated protected when new, and last a bit longer.
EBERspaecher fit good, sound good, look good, better than OE quality of most everything on the road other than a MBZ.
Unbelievably I got an offer ($650, local pickup without shipping
) just MOMENTS after I posted.Happy to let you know if there’s a glitch with the sale.
Re: EBERspaecher...Nothing wrong at all; I think the OE are better black-coated protected when new, and last a bit longer.
EBERspaecher fit good, sound good, look good, better than OE quality of most everything on the road other than a MBZ.
I spoke to them today. They make mufflers, resonators and y-pipes. But there is a back-log for Y-pipe - at least 2 weeks out, and only on Monday will they be able to confirm whether muffler is in stock. Price-wise it comes out the same as factory parts.
The parts my shop ordered turned out to be for 300E and don't fit my car, which now is with out exhaust. Correct parts will arrive on Tuesday, and it'll be $200 more.
Ideally I'd like to get a nicer looking and sounding muffler, but at this point things will stake stock, unless I can find an aftermarket muffler or a complete Y-pipe by Tuesday/Wednesday
The Y-Pipe is Timevalve. I bought the muffler on
e-Bay and it is a RENNTECH off of a SL500 or SL600.
There is no comparison to a stock system. It’s a lot louder both inside/outside the car. It sounds great outside of the car. Inside a slite droan around 35 to 40 mph. I think the packing in the RT muffler is burned out. I have been kicking around having it cut open and re-packed.
I only have one video off of a camera but I don’t think I can post it w/o putting it on U-Tube.
On the whole I like the Y-Pipe/RENNTECH Set-Up but sometimes I tire of to LOUD. So I switch back and forth between the Y-Pipe VS my fabbed up Magnaflow resonator.
e-Bay and it is a RENNTECH off of a SL500 or SL600.
There is no comparison to a stock system. It’s a lot louder both inside/outside the car. It sounds great outside of the car. Inside a slite droan around 35 to 40 mph. I think the packing in the RT muffler is burned out. I have been kicking around having it cut open and re-packed.
I only have one video off of a camera but I don’t think I can post it w/o putting it on U-Tube.
On the whole I like the Y-Pipe/RENNTECH Set-Up but sometimes I tire of to LOUD. So I switch back and forth between the Y-Pipe VS my fabbed up Magnaflow resonator.
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I've finally installed the Y-pipe. Was charged 2.5 hours of labor by local Midas to adapt it to my 400E. Barely, if any, change in noise, but there's a slight turbo hiss now.
Is this, supposedly NLA, 1 year old center muffler for 400E that was cut out for Y-pipe worth anything? Cost me $600 a year ago
Glad you finally have this resolved! I remember when I removed the resonator at first, same thing, no notable difference that I could recall (but that all changed with Carlsson rear box)I've finally installed the Y-pipe. Was charged 2.5 hours of labor by local Midas to adapt it to my 400E. Barely, if any, change in noise, but there's a slight turbo hiss now.
Is this, supposedly NLA, 1 year old center muffler for 400E that was cut out for Y-pipe worth anything? Cost me $600 a year ago
Regards,
D
That'll have to wait. Rear muffler, just like the center muffler, is only 1 years old. I can't throw it away too, this quickly. I was hoping for a very mild improvement in sound using Y-pipe instead of center muffler, but it turned out a lot more milder than I expected. Did not pursue rear muffler mod because I thought it'll change the sound MORE than I would prefer. My car is a staid 400E, not a arabic stallion 500E, so aggressive exhaust sound, I think, would not match its character
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Find a 2.65 rear differential from 90-92 500SL and then you’ll want that fancy rear muffler.
The 2.65 will totally transform your car
I know
. My car does not have ASR. Were there 90-92 SL500s without it?
Yes sir, mine has no ASR. Just make sure there is just one sensor on the differential and you are all set. They sell for only around a $100 in Nor Cal at the dismantlers.I know
My mechanic buddy changed the two side seals and rear seal in about 30 minutes. The side seals and sealant was around $32 at the dealer.
My mechanic was adamant that I buy a new OE flex disc even though mine looked fine before removal. Sadly none of the online parts dealers had one in stock so I had to grab from MB. It all worked out beyond my expectations and I have zero vibration issues.
It’s the best mod I can recommend for a USA 400E420.
Many thanks @gsxr for the Pro Tip and advise
