Machine shops dying out?

[gsxr]

Got this from a different Mercedes list. It's not Mercedes related, but still sort of relevant to our automotive hobby:

AZ AMC Restorations​

Due to the dwindling supply of quality machine shops and very poor quality aftermarket parts as well as a lack of people interested in learning the engine building and machine shop trades, I regret to inform our many followers and current as well as past customers that we will no longer be taking on any new engine build orders unless it is for a car we are restoring. Since Covid, we have had to do rework on multiple engine builds due to poorly manufactured parts that failed during break in or machine work that was below our standards due to all the old farts like me dying off with no younger workers interested in taking their place.

For example, rod bearings are now made too thin resulting in 390 and 401 crank grinds needing to be ground .0085, .0185 or .0285 under standard rod journal size yet all but one machine shop in the entire Phoenix area refused to do anything other than the standard .010, .020 or .030 grinds. Even worse, when the one shop that will grind the cranks the way we tell them we need them loses their crank grinder to retirement in another year or two, they do not plan to replace him. Machine work that used to have a turnaround of 2-3 weeks now takes a minimum of 2-4 months due to an acute lack of people interested in learning machine work and doing manual physical labor. In fact, one engine block was at a machine shop for a year and when we got it back hey did such a poor sleeve job in one cylinder that it was not even useable so it is now a 250 lb paper weight.

About 15 years ago I nearly bought out an aging gentlemen's machine shop and continue to regret not doing so due to the lack of availability of places to get the work done.

As for poor quality parts, Edelbrock aluminum heads are now such poor quality and filled with so much manufacturing machining slag that we have to completely disassemble them, reset the valve stem and spring heights and even sometimes have them resurfaced because the slag scratched the head gasket surface. Similarly, there are only a couple of camshaft manufacturers remaining that harden their cams correctly and nearly all flat tappet lifters are now such terrible quality and inconsistent hardness that we are no longer willing to risk losing a cam due to poorly made cams and lifters. In fact, we now only use either rollers or custom ground flat tappets with Johnson made lifters from Howard or Herbert. For example, we have probably used 50 or more Summit cams over the past 15 years but the last 4 we used did not even make it through break in so they too are now off the list of acceptable quality parts as well.

So what does all of this mean? We will honor whatever engines builds that are not part of a full restoration that we already have in the queue however we must warn all those who have been patiently waiting for their engines to be built that supply chain constraints in addition to rapidly declining parts quality along with a lack of qualified machine shop workers is resulting in our anticipated wait times to get an engine built often doubling in duration. And if anyone is tired of waiting and thinks they can do better elsewhere, we will fully refund their deposit and wish them well.

What used to take a couple of weeks to get back from a machine shop can easily now take 2-4 months or more resulting in our overall engine backlog now being 15-18 months. The bottom line is that custom engine building is on its way to becoming extinct and it won't be too many more years before all of us old farts that currently do this work either retire and/or die off resulting in engine building within the collector car hobby becoming nearly impossible to find And when you do find someone, don't be surprised if they are backed out 2+ years or more and that they only want to do Chevy builds and know zero about our beloved AMC engines. "The times they are a changin'."

And any know it all's that are not in this business who try to show everyone how smart they think they are by declaring that these conditions do not exist, despite literally hundreds of others saying they are experiencing the exact same thing, will have their comments deleted because they are clearly talking out of their ass.





Source link:
https://www.facebook.com/story.php?...KU3ieHoCGqYsjSwzS7s7aopYkl&id=100063914177248

 

[daantjie]

Sadly gone are the days of pride in workmanship in general. The folks who still give a sh*t are fading fast, oldtimers who have been at it for 40+years and such. Most young folk are not interested in learning these skills, so essentially it's like a language dying out because there are no more speakers and teachers left. Sad but true. You folks in the US still have it "good" seeing as the market is so much bigger than in Canada. It is pretty much impossible to find this kind of work to be done here in Canada to any kind of standard. If you do you will 1) pay through the nose and 2) wait forever. The CAD/USD exchange rate makes it even more brutal seeing as most parts have to be sourced from the US or Europe and the CAD is piss poor against most all currencies of late. Ugh...

 

[Alphasud40]

That has been my experience as well. Good machine shops are harder to find and new parts are total shit. I would send cylinder heads for Corvair engine work to a fellow in Texas and I recently learned the future of his business might be in question.

Right now I have a M103 engine apart and the guides measured just below maximum diameter but I'm afraid to use a local shop to even replace guides and cut seats. The engine will be fine as is.

I recently ordered a crank kit for another engine I was working on and when I tried to set the crank into the block it hung up on the thrust bearing. They turned the crank 10 under but never opened up the thrust surface. 10 under bearings also have the thrust area opened up 10 thou. Ended up wet sanding the thrust bearings to get my clearance. Add another hour spent that I ate. I wish for the old days.

 

[sheward]

I grew up and worked in a machine shop environment. I could never overstate the degree to which it helped me throughout a lifetime. It's the end of an era. What's especially disheartening is no one is even interested anymore.

Thanks for posting this, as well as commenting. It's cathartic for me.

 

[ace10]

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/22/1245858737/gen-z-trade-vocational-schools-jobs-college

​

Many in Gen Z ditch colleges for trade schools. Meet the 'toolbelt generation'​

APRIL 22, 20245:02 AM ET
By
Windsor Johnston

Sy Kirby dreaded the thought of going to college after graduating from high school. He says a four-year degree just wasn't in the cards for him or his bank account.

"I was facing a lot of pressure for a guy that knew for a fact that he wasn't going to college," Kirby says. "I knew I wasn't going to sit in a classroom, especially since I knew I wasn't going to pay for it."

Instead, at the age of 19, Kirby took a job at a local water department in southern Arkansas. He said the position helped him to develop the skills that helped him start his own construction company.



Sy Kirby, who runs his own construction company, says a four-year degree just wasn't in the cards for him or his bank account.
Will Anderson

Now at age 32, Kirby finds himself mentoring many of his employees, who also opted to learn a skilled trade rather than shelling out tens of thousands of dollars to pursue a degree that they wouldn't use after graduating.

Kirby says blue-collar work is lucrative and allows him to "call the shots" in his life. But, he says the job also comes with a downside, mainly because of the stigma attached to the industry.

"I think there's a big problem with moms and dads coming home from quote-unquote 'dirty' jobs. Coming home with dirty clothes and sweating. You had a hard day's work and sometimes that's looked down upon," he says.

​

Kirby is among the growing number of young people who have chosen to swap college for vocational schools that offer paid, on-the-job training.

Skilled trades make a comeback​

Lisa Countryman-Quiroz is the CEO of JVS, or Jewish Vocational Service, a nonprofit in San Francisco that provides career training for unemployed workers to find jobs, including in skilled trades. She says that over the years there has been a shift — with skilled trade making a comeback, especially among members of Generation Z.

"Folks have really prioritized a college education as a path to the middle class and a path to a cushy office job." But, Countryman-Quiroz says, "over the last 10 to 15 years, we are seeing a trend among young people opting out of universities. Just the crushing debt of college is becoming a barrier in and of itself."

More than half of Gen Zers say it's possible to get a well-paying job with only a high school diploma, provided one acquires other skills. That's according to a survey by New America, a Washington Think Tank that focuses on a range of public policy issues, including technology, education and the economy.

​

The high cost of college prompts a change in career paths​

In addition, the Education Data Initiative says the average cost of college in the United States has more than doubled in the 21st century.
With that price tag increasing, many Gen Zers say they've been left with no choice but to leave the college path. Many say living with their parents until they can pay off their college debt isn't an option.

​

Nitzan Pelman is founder of Climb Hire, a company that helps low-income and overlooked people break into new careers. She says many young people say graduating from college with a six-figure debt is a non-starter.

"It's not a secret that the cost of college has gone up so dramatically in the last decade that it's really cost prohibitive at this point," she says.
Pelman says pursuing skilled trades can also help "level the playing field," especially for young people from less-privileged backgrounds and for people of color.

​

"We don't see a lot of Black men in construction, but more Latino men in construction and you don't see many women in construction. Social capital is a really big gatekeeper and a door-opener for accessing high-quality jobs and helping people break into certain industries," she says.
In 2021, President Biden signed a $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill. Since then, he's been traveling the country promoting the law, which he says will open up thousands of new jobs in trades.

​

"You can expect to get your hands dirty and that's OK"​

The high cost of college isn't the only factor driving many young people toward skilled trades. With the use of artificial intelligence on the rise, many Gen Zers see manual labor as less vulnerable to the emerging technology than white-collar alternatives. They also say vocational schools are a straight path to well-paying jobs.

Pelman says increasing salaries and new technologies in fields such as welding, plumbing and machine tooling are giving trade professions a face-lift, making them more appealing to the younger crowd.

"There are a lot of vocational jobs out there that are pretty attractive — HVAC repair and installation, electricians, solar panel installer — there's so much demand for wind turbine installers who, in many cases, make more than $100,000 a year — so there's a lot of demand for manual labor," she stresses.



Diego Aguilar works at a trade center at East Bay Municipal Utility District in Oakland, Calif.

That was the case for 25-year-old Diego Aguilar, who says a traditional desk job was out of the question for him. Aguilar now works full time at a trade center at East Bay Municipal Utility District in Oakland, Calif., after going through the JVS training program.

"When I went into a trade program I learned how much money I could make performing a very specific kind of work. You need mechanics, you need machinists, you need carpenters, operators you need painters. You can expect to get your hands dirty and that's OK," Aguilar says.

​

Data from the National Student Clearinghouse Research Center shows the number of students enrolled in vocational-focused community colleges increased 16% from 2022 to 2023.

As for Kirby, he says his mission is to keep raising awareness about what he calls the "toolbelt generation."

"Where they can walk out of the school of hard knocks, pick an industry, work your 10 years, take your punches, take your licks and hopefully you're bringing jobs and careers back to the community," he says.

When asked if he regrets his decision to go into skilled trades, Kirby chuckles. "Not for a second," he says.

 

[gsxr]

I grew up and worked in a machine shop environment. I could never overstate the degree to which it helped me throughout a lifetime. It's the end of an era. What's especially disheartening is no one is even interested anymore.

I would LOVE to learn how to do all the machine work needed for engine building/repair. Boring Alusil blocks, machining / balancing crankshafts & rods, all that jazz. Mostly because I don't know any shop that I'd trust to touch M119 internals locally, and shipping stuff anywhere is both risky and expensive. If anyone knows of a Sunnen machine available at yard-sale prices, drop me a line.

 

[gerryvz]

Yep, a good machine shop is absolutely worth its weight in gold.

When I lived in Portland, OR, the "go-to" machine shop there (for many generations) was Bearing Service Co. downtown:

Bearing Service Company | Portland OR

Bearing Service Company, Portland, Oregon. 35 likes · 28 were here. SuperMedia Content Disclaimer: http://spag.es/hjh9DV

www.facebook.com

When I lived in Houston, it was Scroggins Machine. They rebuilt the M117 heads of my 560SEC, as well as my former M104 E320 wagon's head:

Scroggins Machine, Inc.

www.scrogginsmachine.com

And here in Maryland, I've found an excellent shop, Ellison's Machine Shop, that will be doing my G320's M104 in the near future:

Ellison's Machine Shop

Ellison's Machine Shop

www.ellisonsmachineshop.com

 

[emerydc8]

I grew up and worked in a machine shop environment. I could never overstate the degree to which it helped me throughout a lifetime. It's the end of an era. What's especially disheartening is no one is even interested anymore.

Thanks for posting this, as well as commenting. It's cathartic for me.

It was foreseeable that embracing disposable EVs would lead to this. If all the auto manufacturers have clearly announced the death of the internal combustion engine, even giving a date, then why would anyone want to pursue that career path? There will probably be some options for us ICE holdouts but they will be difficult and ridiculously expensive and that industry will be viewed as more of a hobby industry--not the industry it once was. And by the time reality sets in for the rest--that EVs are an irrational leftest pipe dream that can never replace ICEs unless half the population is not driving (BTW, that is the intended purpose of EVs anyway)--the quality of what ICEs are left will never return to where it once was. They will all be disposable junk. Progress?

 

[Markus-MD]

Not good but good too hear ,that you have the same Problems as well we have here in Germany too.Generation Z here in Germany take Discus too start a 4 Days week to work.They mind that is enough for work and life Balance and all other makes ill.Crazy fucking shit.
This is maybe an global Problem with only the Industryl Nation and there Childs.Nobody here want have dirt Hands a smells like an skunk.
Work in Büro Bussiness for 4000 Euro and 30 Day Vacation 4 week per year ill with fully Payment. and so on and on.
And the jackpot here in Germany ist work buy the Gouverment .one time in .and never go out and work ist easely.
Wish us all a good time with our cars and hope the best.

 

[500AMM]

It was foreseeable that embracing disposable EVs would lead to this. If all the auto manufacturers have clearly announced the death of the internal combustion engine, even giving a date, then why would anyone want to pursue that career path? There will probably be some options for us ICE holdouts but they will be difficult and ridiculously expensive and that industry will be viewed as more of a hobby industry--not the industry it once was. And by the time reality sets in for the rest--that EVs are an irrational leftest pipe dream that can never replace ICEs unless half the population is not driving (BTW, that is the intended purpose of EVs anyway)--the quality of what ICEs are left will never return to where it once was. They will all be disposable junk. Progress?

Thanks Jon - I couldn't have said that better myself!

And it's really sad to watch the EV syndrome destroy the entire ICE business.