the fuel safety shut off will not cause the engine not to run. It just won’t rev over the cut off If there was a fault. So it should start and idle. If you want to remove the shell of the HFM connectors and plug the connectors back in you can back probe th terminals. I can give you what you should be seeing on the inputs.
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Need help don't know where to turn 1993 300E
- Thread starter natejgreene9871
- Start date
Ok so I got it running!
I think I had multiple issues going on:
-dead fuel pump and fouled fuel tank/injectors
-ABS control unit
I reseated the plug to the abs control unit and it started running? Why should this matter? Car will not run if abs unit goes out what the hell?
Anyway the car is running and I drove it down the street. It idles a little rough and feels low on power but at least it’s not stalling!
Also I did a smoke test and found no vacuum leaks.
I’ve done plugs and coils and several other “tune up” items so I’m not sure what else there is.
I see a bottle of coolant in the trunk so hopefully the headgasket isn’t bad..the reservoir is full and I’ve never had to top it off,
Aside from vacuum leaks, plugs and coils, what else could cause low power and rough idle?
I think I had multiple issues going on:
-dead fuel pump and fouled fuel tank/injectors
-ABS control unit
I reseated the plug to the abs control unit and it started running? Why should this matter? Car will not run if abs unit goes out what the hell?
Anyway the car is running and I drove it down the street. It idles a little rough and feels low on power but at least it’s not stalling!
Also I did a smoke test and found no vacuum leaks.
I’ve done plugs and coils and several other “tune up” items so I’m not sure what else there is.
I see a bottle of coolant in the trunk so hopefully the headgasket isn’t bad..the reservoir is full and I’ve never had to top it off,
Aside from vacuum leaks, plugs and coils, what else could cause low power and rough idle?
Have you replaced the HFM computer with a known good spare unit?
You never answered my query, early on, about the resistence / electrical flow in the spark plug wires. If bad (and yes, these CAN and DO go bad), they will directly affect the flow of electricity from the three coil packs to the six spark plugs.
The fuel injectors on these engines are very very rare to go bad or fail. I would very definitely pursue other avenues.
I don't think you've fully tied off on all of the potential issues.
You never answered my query, early on, about the resistence / electrical flow in the spark plug wires. If bad (and yes, these CAN and DO go bad), they will directly affect the flow of electricity from the three coil packs to the six spark plugs.
The fuel injectors on these engines are very very rare to go bad or fail. I would very definitely pursue other avenues.
I don't think you've fully tied off on all of the potential issues.
I bought some refurbished injectors from a Mercedes facebook group. They were supposedly rebuilt /backflushed ultrasonically.
No I did not change the HFM computer.
I’m going to try removing the ABS module and see if it starts but I’m pretty sure it won’t.
No I did not change the HFM computer.
I’m going to try removing the ABS module and see if it starts but I’m pretty sure it won’t.
This pertains specifically to LH injected engines, NOT the HFM engine that you have.
Not a good idea to deal with these types of groups. Too many random people who don't know much, despite purporting to.
If you buy something like refurbished injectors, you would want to purchase them from a reputable business that deals in such.
Or, as I did in this thread, send your own injectors to a company that specifically does this as a service.
What did you find out about that code you pulled from pin 14? 11: fuel safety shut-off to LH-SFI control module.
Watching this thread, but I have never worked with an M 104 car so am no help. Have had some head scratching issues with the M103 and KE system that I needed help with, though.
Good luck and wish I could help more.
Watching this thread, but I have never worked with an M 104 car so am no help. Have had some head scratching issues with the M103 and KE system that I needed help with, though.
Good luck and wish I could help more.
I’m with Dave on this one. Electrically the ABS should not prevent HFM from operating. I’m wondering if you don’t have a harness issue which is being uncovered when you disturb things.
That sounds exactly like the scenario you have and also brings up that code you pulled earlier here. 11: fuel safety shut-off to LH-SFI control module
Would really look hard at that issue if it were me. Wonder what module controls that function on your car? Had 2 issues with my 90 300TE and the M103 that turned out to be a bad ECU on one and a bad EZL on the other that had me stumped for a while. Also had a bad idle surge that sounded exactly like a bad ETA on the 420 that turned out to be a bad LLH module instead. Wonder if your issue is not similar? Maybe water got into one of your modules and killed something? Would really focus on that fuel safety shut off and find out what controls that feature if it were mine.
I am honestly considering parting this car out or selling it for a loss. I’m going to make a decision in the next few days.
I got 2 more ecm’s. A known good ECM from eBay and also borrowed a known good ecm from a friend.
Plugged it in and drove the car for 20 minutes. Drove pretty good.
Shut the car off in the garage, wouldn’t start again. Same symptoms as before. Starts for a moment and then stalls.
Only spraying starter fluid will get it to run.
Zero codes on any modules.
There is some kind of electrical issue going on. I’ve cut open every harness i can find but I can’t find any bio wiring.
I’ve been buying old MB’s for years and this is the first one that has truly stumped me. Has been a 5 month affair at this point.
I got 2 more ecm’s. A known good ECM from eBay and also borrowed a known good ecm from a friend.
Plugged it in and drove the car for 20 minutes. Drove pretty good.
Shut the car off in the garage, wouldn’t start again. Same symptoms as before. Starts for a moment and then stalls.
Only spraying starter fluid will get it to run.
Zero codes on any modules.
There is some kind of electrical issue going on. I’ve cut open every harness i can find but I can’t find any bio wiring.
I’ve been buying old MB’s for years and this is the first one that has truly stumped me. Has been a 5 month affair at this point.
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Also I pulled the spark plugs and they look like they are running very rich for what it’s worth
I'm at a loss to explain this or assist... I think having an SDS to view live data would be helpful, but you'd need to know what you are looking at.
For the excessively-rich mixture - any chance this could be a defective MAF, i.e. reading incorrect airflow? Have you tried a different one? How about the oxygen sensor? MAF+O2 are primary inputs for mixture adjustment. Live data will also show the adaptation values, i.e. if the ECU is adjusting the mixture to either max lean (trying to correct, but unable to) or max rich (incorrectly making the mixture too rich).
For the excessively-rich mixture - any chance this could be a defective MAF, i.e. reading incorrect airflow? Have you tried a different one? How about the oxygen sensor? MAF+O2 are primary inputs for mixture adjustment. Live data will also show the adaptation values, i.e. if the ECU is adjusting the mixture to either max lean (trying to correct, but unable to) or max rich (incorrectly making the mixture too rich).
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Maybe a dumb question at this point but when it cranks starts and then dies have you ever tried cracking the throttle slightly While cranking and to see if it stays running while you have your foot on the gas? Are you certain you have 60psi of fuel pressure now that it isn’t starting?
I just bought a cheap handheld DMM 2-channel scope on Chinazon.com. It would be helpful to have this tool in your tool kit:
I just bought a cheap handheld DMM 2-channel scope on Chinazon.com. It would be helpful to have this tool in your tool kit:
Before I condemn the car I would replace MAF and O2… probably all fried at this point… after that NSS. I think something is telling the car to run this way (specifically adjusting for max lean, flooding fuel in response). It’s not mechanical. That list would be the “somethings” to check IMO.
maw
Ok so I’ve made some progress here. I put in a different used ecu and a different MAF.
The car is starting reliably now and not stalling anymore. No idea why it wasn’t giving a code but the old MAF was definitely bad.
Interestingly, when the car is cold it surges very badly. At idle it is stable, then from about 10k RPM to 20k RPM it surges badly (500rpm swings). And at higher rpm’s it’s stable. So it’s stable except for when rpm is in the 10-20k range.
This is only when engine is cold.
If I let the car idle for 10-20 minutes and reach full operating temperature, all surging goes away! Runs nice and smooth all through the rev range.
What would cause surging only when the engine is cold?
And again to recap, I have no vac leaks, all modules have been swapped, all new ignition components, all spark plugs are firing, fuel system totally gone through, rebuilt eta, etc
The car is starting reliably now and not stalling anymore. No idea why it wasn’t giving a code but the old MAF was definitely bad.
Interestingly, when the car is cold it surges very badly. At idle it is stable, then from about 10k RPM to 20k RPM it surges badly (500rpm swings). And at higher rpm’s it’s stable. So it’s stable except for when rpm is in the 10-20k range.
This is only when engine is cold.
If I let the car idle for 10-20 minutes and reach full operating temperature, all surging goes away! Runs nice and smooth all through the rev range.
What would cause surging only when the engine is cold?
And again to recap, I have no vac leaks, all modules have been swapped, all new ignition components, all spark plugs are firing, fuel system totally gone through, rebuilt eta, etc
Try disconnecting the O2 sensor and run open loop. Let it cool down and then try again cold. I’m trying to determine if the surging is the result of the engine being in closed loop and it’s trying to correct for excessive lean or rich conditions.
I’m going to do this next. I just had to take a few month break mentally from this car. It has been quite the experience. Spring is here time to get it moving.
Ok, I did a compression test tonight. Engine totally cold.
Based on this test, I have shelled out the money for a new o2 sensor and NEW MAF.
Plugs were really dark, engine running way to rich.
This has to be it, I feel like I am close.
I just don’t understand why this car is not, and has not, ever produced any useful/consistant fault blink codes. It’s the biggest mystery here.
I did try running the car with the 02 sensor unplugged and didn’t notice any appreciable difference. Exhaust was still super rich.
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Based on this test, I have shelled out the money for a new o2 sensor and NEW MAF.
Plugs were really dark, engine running way to rich.
This has to be it, I feel like I am close.
I just don’t understand why this car is not, and has not, ever produced any useful/consistant fault blink codes. It’s the biggest mystery here.
I did try running the car with the 02 sensor unplugged and didn’t notice any appreciable difference. Exhaust was still super rich.
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Sounds like LH to me, an @Alphasud40 recap ... but I hate to spend another man's money. But that's where I would look if it's my car.
maw
maw
LH/ECU module?
I’ve tried 4 different used ones. I have a friend who works in the salvage industry and hoards MB control modules. I tried one he swore was good. No change.
Do these modules really have that high of a failure rate?
30 years in, if the capacitors haven't been replaced, "good" is a matter of interpretation. I say "good" = known to have capacitors replaced, from experience. You can watch others have the same experience, live in real time, on this Board if you like. Or you can rule it out. People aren't re-capping LH modules for fun around here. If it's a fuel delivery problem with the things you've done already, think LH module. And all the "good" ones you tried that weren't re-capped, well...
maw
So when you unplugged the O2 sensor with a cold engine it still surged as I think you put it until it warmed up and then ran fine? Do you have a voltmeter you can hook up to this O2 signal wire while it’s plugged in? I would like to confirm this rich condition with a sensor rather than inspecting a spark plug. I thought you said it was running fine once it warmed up? Also spark plugs can take a while to burn off so a short drive might not do it. Also if this engine is running rich as stated the converter should be glowing red hot.
One more point of discussion could the converter be damaged from all this and possibly creating an exhaust restriction. Stuff like this drives me crazy because I can’t be your eyes.
One more point of discussion could the converter be damaged from all this and possibly creating an exhaust restriction. Stuff like this drives me crazy because I can’t be your eyes.
It’s running fine once warmed up but still a little rich. Most rich when it first starts,
What about this sensor? I’ve read on some other forums where it causes issues
Mercedes-Benz Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor - Delphi TS10263
Mercedes-Benz Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor - Delphi TS10263
www.fcpeuro.com
Test your existing sensor first. These are rare failures... either replace with good used OE, or new OE. All the aftermarket ones are garbage.
In a last ditch effort I installed a new o2 sensor and new MAF (bremi).
Car runs great now. No surging, no rich exhaust. It appears to be totally fixed.
Case closed?
Now someone please tell me why I never got any blink codes for either of these components when they were obviously bad??
6 months of checking blink codes and nothing.
Car runs great now. No surging, no rich exhaust. It appears to be totally fixed.
Case closed?
Now someone please tell me why I never got any blink codes for either of these components when they were obviously bad??
6 months of checking blink codes and nothing.
Because emissions requirements back then weren't as tight as they are now. So a non-optimal O2 sensor didn't throw codes the way they do now. Yours were working. They were telling the car to pump more fuel. They just weren't working well.
Twelve years later, my Audi Allroad will throw a CEL for bad gas. You can run these on kerosene and they won't throw codes. Charge it to computing increases during the intervening period.
My $.02, I'm sure someone else has a more in the weeds explanation.
We should all keep in mind these are electronics, and electronics don't last forever. No one would ask why a 30 year old computer or home stereo isn't working properly. They're all made of the same stuff.
maw
Twelve years later, my Audi Allroad will throw a CEL for bad gas. You can run these on kerosene and they won't throw codes. Charge it to computing increases during the intervening period.
My $.02, I'm sure someone else has a more in the weeds explanation.
We should all keep in mind these are electronics, and electronics don't last forever. No one would ask why a 30 year old computer or home stereo isn't working properly. They're all made of the same stuff.
maw
How about a recap from start to finish on this lengthy journey. Starting with power washing the engine to what it took to get it running again? And what you found to improve the way the car drove until the recent MAF and O2 sensor.
The engine computers may only store a fault code if a component is completely dead. For instance, if the MAF is reading either zero airflow or max airflow at all times, that should store a fault code. HOWEVER. If the MAF is simply reading incorrectly, i.e. reading significantly more or less airflow than actual, the ECU cannot tell that it's defective - and doesn't store a code. Instead it tries to compensate by adjusting the mixture based on the (wrong) signals, which results in poor engine operation.
In situations like this you need to view live data, AND need to know what "normal" values are for that particular engine.
My guess is your old MAF is bad, and if you swapped it back in, the car would run lousy.
can you even view live data on cars with the 16 pin connector block??The engine computers may only store a fault code if a component is completely dead. For instance, if the MAF is reading either zero airflow or max airflow at all times, that should store a fault code. HOWEVER. If the MAF is simply reading incorrectly, i.e. reading significantly more or less airflow than actual, the ECU cannot tell that it's defective - and doesn't store a code. Instead it tries to compensate by adjusting the mixture based on the (wrong) signals, which results in poor engine operation.
In situations like this you need to view live data, AND need to know what "normal" values are for that particular engine.
My guess is your old MAF is bad, and if you swapped it back in, the car would run lousy.
I thought only 38 pin cars could view live data?
Now that's an interesting theory I'd love for OP to test -- old MAF on new O2. FWIW I always considered those to be one system, for just this reason. You need both to get proper A:F ratios. And I don't like to hunt and peck.
maw
Live data is available from cars with 16-pin connector block and HFM-SFI injection, which would include all 1993 300E/CE/TE (except 4Matic).
You can view O2 sensor voltage and lambda control, plus air mass (MAF), temps, etc.
From page 2 of this PDF file:
Well said and I was going to reply with a similar explanation. You are right that it’s most likely the MAF causing the issue and most likely a secondary issue to his first issue of not running after washing the engine.The engine computers may only store a fault code if a component is completely dead. For instance, if the MAF is reading either zero airflow or max airflow at all times, that should store a fault code. HOWEVER. If the MAF is simply reading incorrectly, i.e. reading significantly more or less airflow than actual, the ECU cannot tell that it's defective - and doesn't store a code. Instead it tries to compensate by adjusting the mixture based on the (wrong) signals, which results in poor engine operation.
In situations like this you need to view live data, AND need to know what "normal" values are for that particular engine.
My guess is your old MAF is bad, and if you swapped it back in, the car would run lousy.
Mercedes was a leader in technology in the 90’s when most euro manufacturers just had fault code diagnosis.
I was a Saab tech when these cars were new. The 900 and 9000 had LH back then and boy was it frustrating at times. Besides the lack of self diagnosis and being able to measure actual values fuel refiners didn’t have the formulations down with EFI. So we struggled with drivability issues in the spring and fall when they changed the vapor pressures. Plus they didn’t have the detergent packages so we struggled with valve deposits and clogged injectors. On a couple occasions a MAF would be the source of cold running issues before the LH went into closed loop which is probably what was happening to Nate’s car.
Its a long and painful story but hopefully you can follow:
I bought the car on facebook last summer for $800, I towed it a family members house with my AAA membership.
When I got there I checked for bio wiring. All wiring was good except for the ETA. The ETA wiring was absolutely dust and totally shorting out.
I ordered and installed a rebuilt ETA and that same day I needed some gas. This family member had a bunch of gas jerry cans in the garage. One of them happened to be full of old radiator fluid. They needed a container to hold it until proper disposal.
I unknowingly dumped about 5 gallons of dirty, muddy, radiator fluid into the gas tank.
This locked up one of the fuel pumps and carried sediment all the way to the injector screens. They were very sorry and helped me remove and clean the gas tank. I also replaced a fuel pump, flushed the lines, replaced the injectors with used, fuel filter, fuel press accumulator.
I also lightly pressure washed the engine bay during this time. In hindsight I really do not think this is what caused damage as I tried to stay away from electronic components.
After all the fuel system work, and engine cleaning, the car seemed to run fine about 50% of the time. One day I could drive it for 30 minutes and it would be fine, another day it would just refuse to run. It would crank right up for 2 seconds and then die every time like clockwork. Inconsistant behavior.
Zero codes whatsoever.
I tried replacing the crank position sensor, cam position sensor, and OVP. Same behavior no change.
Then my attention went to the ECU.
The original ECU was providing irregular pulses to the fuel injectors (confirmed by a test light). I then bought a second ECU on ebay. It was also defective and didn't have any spark on cylinder #3.
I then borrowed a third (confirmed good) ECU from a friend. He also gave me a second (supposedly good) MAF for free.
So I installed the known good ECU and the supposedly good MAF from my friend. Car still would not stay running. Only way to get it to run reliably was with starter fluid sprayed down the intake/ETA.
At this point I was unbelievably frustrated and looking to scrap the car. I parked it in my backyard for about 5 months to work on other projects (my 400e).
A couple weeks ago I decided to pick back up on the project. After sitting outside all winter it suprisingly fired right up. It was now starting consistently (no stalling) but running poorly. Surging, rich exhaust, rough idle.
I thought what the hell, I may as well finish the parts cannon and replace the MAF and O2 sensor with brand new per @maw1124 suggestion.
Seems to have fixed it.
Some lessons learned:
- These HFM ECU's appear to have higher failure rates than other MB's. I don't know why, perhaps eco wiring shorts them out. I've never had one fail on a KE JET car and all the used/junkyard ones from my 400e (LH) work just fine. Two in a row bad??
- Also, both Bosch OE MAF's I tried were bad. I never expected this high of a failure rate? They looked physically pristine and are Bosch OE
- I relied too heavily on fault codes. Everyone, on every forum I posted on (benzworld, peachparts etc), just said to check the fault codes. "Fault codes tell you everything". I checked fault codes probably 50 times over the last 6 months and never once got anything useful. The lack of fault codes actually led me astray. I figured if I don't have any fault codes, It must be a fuel issue? Fuel system is the only thing that wouldn't trigger a code I thought. This was incorrect logic.
So to recap, i think I had multiple failures on this car. Fuel related (self inflicted), faulty ECU, faulty MAF, and probably a bad O2 sensor (it looked original).
I suppose that's what I get for trying to fix up an $800 car. If I ever own another 300E it will be the M103 variety.
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Reading this I'm almost thinking you had one self inflicted problem after the ETA, which was dumping radiator fluid in the gas tank, which messed up your entire fuel delivery system including the MAF. I almost wish you had started by replacing the MAF. Now, I'm thinking fill it up with the best gas you can find and drive it two hours freeway in any direction you feel safe. Dump some Chevron Techron in it and drive it home LOL. She'll probably be the best $800 car you ever bought.
;-D
maw
;-D
maw
Nooooooo! The M103 has another, completely different set of problems. The mechanical injection is actually more difficult to troubleshoot and repair since there is not even live data available. The M104 EFI can adjust over time for normal wear, mechanical CIS cannot. There's other issues too... valve guides... oil consumption... much less power... etc etc.
I guess from my perspective the M103 is simple. When I bought my 86 300E it was running on 4 cylinders and had a terrible valve train noise. All it took was a new camshaft and followers, new ignition wires, cap, rotor, and plugs, new injectors and injector seals to fix the vacuum leaks and she was purring like a kitten. Never touched the mixture screw after making the engine whole again. Ratio was right where it needed to be.
I think the difference is I cut my teeth on CIS in the 80’s working on VW, Audi, and Volvo products. So working with that system is easy and intuitive. With the KE system they do have some simple fault codes so to speak by looking at the duty cycle there are specific values that indicate the health and can at least point you in a direction. With the old mechanical CIS you needed a 2 gas or a O2 sensor and a fuel pressure gauge to diagnose. The beauty of those is everything is adjustable. Cold drivability issues? Adjust the warm up regulator to compensate for wear or deposits. Once tuned they stayed that way for at least 30K or until the next tune-up.
I think the difference is I cut my teeth on CIS in the 80’s working on VW, Audi, and Volvo products. So working with that system is easy and intuitive. With the KE system they do have some simple fault codes so to speak by looking at the duty cycle there are specific values that indicate the health and can at least point you in a direction. With the old mechanical CIS you needed a 2 gas or a O2 sensor and a fuel pressure gauge to diagnose. The beauty of those is everything is adjustable. Cold drivability issues? Adjust the warm up regulator to compensate for wear or deposits. Once tuned they stayed that way for at least 30K or until the next tune-up.
The M103 is indeed relatively simple. CIS requires, IMO, a combination of art and wizardry to diagnose and keep running properly. I've owned some CIS M103's in the past and it was frustrating to get them running reasonably well (and never at 100%). And, the CIS mechanical injectors may have a limited lifespan (with no easy way to test) while the EFI injectors can last the lifetime of the car if fed Top Tier fuel. This is where the EFI shines, it adjusts automatically, and can operate near 100% normal most of the time. If you lack the tools and Hogwartz diploma, it's challenging for the average DIY'er to keep CIS running anywhere near the 100% mark.
The M103 valve guide issue is enough of a headache to avoid them. There's no 124 chassis that you can't get with the HFM M104 instead, unless you want a 4Matic (which was never offered with a HFM engine).
As mentioned above, EFI (whether HFM, LH, or ME) requires a different set of skills to diagnose and maintain, but these tend to be more in reach of the DIY'er like myself.
The M103 valve guide issue is enough of a headache to avoid them. There's no 124 chassis that you can't get with the HFM M104 instead, unless you want a 4Matic (which was never offered with a HFM engine).
As mentioned above, EFI (whether HFM, LH, or ME) requires a different set of skills to diagnose and maintain, but these tend to be more in reach of the DIY'er like myself.
I agree about no easy way to test the injectors because we had the special tool at the shops where I worked. I was happy to discover a workaround though. I found the straw of either carb or brake cleaner fits perfectly inside the injector and has enough pressure to open the poppet valve. I was able to clean several blocked injectors and observe the spray patterns. A couple worked but not well so I elected to replace the set since they are still pretty affordable. As far as lifespan is concerned we hardly replaced them but with todays fuel quality I would expect to see at least 100K out of them. But it’s easy with the brake cleaner and straw method to check them.
I’ve just had better luck with CIS cars. I was born in 1993 and have no “back in the day” experience. Send your fuel distributor to CIS Flowtech for rebuild, replace the injectors for $15 a piece. Set the air mixture screw by duty cycle and your done 90% of the time.The M103 is indeed relatively simple. CIS requires, IMO, a combination of art and wizardry to diagnose and keep running properly. I've owned some CIS M103's in the past and it was frustrating to get them running reasonably well (and never at 100%). And, the CIS mechanical injectors may have a limited lifespan (with no easy way to test) while the EFI injectors can last the lifetime of the car if fed Top Tier fuel. This is where the EFI shines, it adjusts automatically, and can operate near 100% normal most of the time. If you lack the tools and Hogwartz diploma, it's challenging for the average DIY'er to keep CIS running anywhere near the 100% mark.
The M103 valve guide issue is enough of a headache to avoid them. There's no 124 chassis that you can't get with the HFM M104 instead, unless you want a 4Matic (which was never offered with a HFM engine).
As mentioned above, EFI (whether HFM, LH, or ME) requires a different set of skills to diagnose and maintain, but these tend to be more in reach of the DIY'er like myself.
No screwing around with biodegradable wiring, ETA’s, blink codes etc.
Sure you have the occasional bad micro switch or idle air valve but these things are easily test-able.
And sure the m103 may have weak valve stem seals and is slow, but the m104 has a weaker headgasket design. It’s a draw in my opinion.
Let’s just say I would trust a KEJET car more for a long roadtrip. If the electronic fuel mgmt system fails, you still have a mechanical backbone that will get you home.
I trust my 400e on long road trips as well, but I definitely drive around with a trunk full of junkyard computer modules and electronic parts ready to go at all times.
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I tested this today. Put the old MAFs back in. Tried both. One causes stalling, another causes surging and rich running. Both Bosch OE, both bad. Even with the new O2 sensor
I cleaned this car up and listed it for sale. It really is driving good now.
I’ve had 3 people come out to look at the 300e.
All 3 people have shown up, seen my 400e in the driveway, and lost interest in the 300e.
They want to haggle over the car that’s not for sale. All 3 said they have been looking for a 400e and can’t find one.
I’ve had 3 people come out to look at the 300e.
All 3 people have shown up, seen my 400e in the driveway, and lost interest in the 300e.
They want to haggle over the car that’s not for sale. All 3 said they have been looking for a 400e and can’t find one.
You need to hide the 400E because when people shop at the grocery store they don’t look for tomato juice when they know they would rather have the V8.
So is it now for sale or no? You put it up for sale because of the interest? I'm confused. What's "the car that's not for sale"?
maw
I’m selling the 300e and my keeper/daily driver is a 400e.
Both are 1993, both are black, and I bought both (non running) the same week. I understand the confusion.
Honestly I was surprised with how fast the m104 is. I think it actually feels faster than my 400e. Need to change out my rear end…
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That's all gearing. Swap in a 2.65 or 2.82 diff in the 400E and it will be a rocket.
If you do not have ASR, you can go up to 3.06 with some additional part swapping on the donor diff.
