Need some help with 1994 e420

[gsxr]

Thanks for reply, the air is not cold as you would expect to be, I can tell it’s a few F* lower than outside, and it’s changing from time to time, you can feel difference in temp out of vents, I think it’s not ok
also I’ve found online that e420/e500 takes 8 ounces of PAG 46 and 33,5 ounces of R134a for a complete system charge

You need a thermometer to measure vent temps. Can't say if anything is wrong without numbers. Under $10 will get you a digital unit, like this one for example.

my question would be: if you trying to completely drain and refill system does those machines with vacuum draining out all these Freon and oil, or it’s just checking if you have a leak somewhere?

I believe the machines only remove the refrigerant, and possibly some oil. You can't remove all the oil without a lot more work, as a good portion of the oil remains in the compressor, and to fully remove the oil you need to pull the compressor out of the car.

I guess I have to go somewhere for a complete test, drain and refill process as I was looking through web all night long, and found out a lot about ac fill/refill/overfill. Now my guess that I’ve messed up with correct amount of gas and oil, and to make it work properly I’ll have to go to someone who qualified for ac jobs, pay few $$ and forget about these

Evacuating, pulling vacuum, and charging with the correct amount of R-134a would be a good place to start. However, if anyone added oil to the system when it may not have needed it, excess oil could cause some problems. Hopefully that's not an issue.

Btw oil pressure sensor and oil level sensor is not leaking, but is it important to change them right away, like in my case it’s just jumping on idle between 1-2 otherwise looks good, or this sensor will play with ECM causing car to misunderstand? Or it’s just a gauge on cluster just for me?

Neither is important to change right away, but the oil pressure sensor is nice to update so you can trust the reading on the dash. It should be steady at a given RPM. Neither sensor connects to any computer module, both go only to the instrument cluster gauge and idiot light, respectively.

 

[Neoni]

A lot of important and good-to-know info for me here, i will try to get to a professional ac shop and drain refill, will see whats happen
Also now driving with (what it looks like) A/C on I can tell that my transmission shifts hard with A/C on, and smooth with A/C off. Anyone experience that? I mean I can tell that it's shifting harsh 1-2, 2-3, then, without A/C, when climate control swithed to EC(economy) shifts nice as new, strange
P.S:Also thinking about my windows to tint, when I get inside car seats feels like they'll burn my skin, black on black gets really hot after whole day sitting locked expanded to sun, maybe this also impact A/C above limits, don't know

 

[gsxr]

Transmission shift firmness is based on the vacuum signal from the engine, to the modulator on the driver side of the trans. Seems like the AC may be loading the engine more than normal, but enough to affect shifting would be really bizarre. In the meantime check for vacuum leaks on the entire engine, including the tube to the tranny.

Window tint is awesome, although some people hate it, I have dark tint on all my cars. Keeps the sun from frying & fading the interior via UV rays, keeps interior cooler, and reduces glare day & night. I like 3M ColorStable tint which is non-metalized, and won't interfere with your GPS or fuzzbuster. It's not cheap, but it's worth it. Pretty much every other less-expensive tint on the market is metalized, including the lower-end 3M tints. Usually is ±$300 for ColorStable installed on all 4 doors, rear glass, and a strip across the top of windshield. Don't attempt to install tint yourself, btw.

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company...or-Stable-Series/?N=5002385+3292716665&rt=rud

 

[Neoni]

I think my ac load engine more than usual, one more question is what would be happening if the expansion valve is bad? Is it going to be not that cold and loading compressor more than usual? Don’t know why but my guess that expansion valve is bad, last year pressure was there and this year still holding, only if the leak occurs by high pressure when working. Anyway will service ac system in shop soon and reply here with results, right now car engine gets hot in traffic with ac on

 

[Klink]

A defective expansion valve can only LOWER the thermal load on the AC system. It absolutely CAN NOT increase the thermal load on an AC system.

 

[Klink]

Actually, it is extremely common that the transmission shifts become noticeably harder with the air conditioner compressor engaged. Engine load is increased, and vacuum is decreased, so there are two things happening simultaneously that increase shift firmness, those being less vacuum on the modulator/greater modulator pressure, and LESS engine torque at the transmission. If you’re tuned in to it, and you are now, the difference is pretty dramatic.

I usually set up my own old-school cars so that the shifts are about as soft as they can be without slipping with the AC compressor off, and that tends to make them close to the way I like them, or even a little bit too hard with the AC compressor engaged. Similarly, if one adjusts for a soft shift with the AC compressor engaged, it is not uncommon to find that the transmission slips on shifts when the compressor is disengaged. It has always been thus, and it is always amazed me that so few people notice this.

Now, all that being said it is not the same thing as saying that this vehicle is performing correctly. The lower the power of the engine, the more noticeable this phenomenon becomes.

 

[Neoni]

So basically it means that car still low on power, not enough to use it with ac on? I'm feeling a huge difference in power between ac on/off

also I found a small window on ac dryer where you can see whats flow in your system and it looks like beige fluid when ac work, or its clear with ac off. Is it too much oil in it so I can see it, or this is how it suppose to be?

 

[Neoni]

Tinted windows today, did 5% on back windshield and doors plus 20% two front doors, doesn’t look to dark for me, will see how this improves heat rejection, btw on the way to tint shop maxed out AC and looks like it’s getting better. They told not to use ac for two days.
is it ok to wash the car from outside now or better wait few days?

 

[gsxr]

So basically it means that car still low on power, not enough to use it with ac on? I'm feeling a huge difference in power between ac on/off

You should not feel a huge power difference with AC on vs off. A small difference, in really hot weather, maybe. If it's huge, something ain't right.

also I found a small window on ac dryer where you can see whats flow in your system and it looks like beige fluid when ac work, or its clear with ac off. Is it too much oil in it so I can see it, or this is how it suppose to be?

I forget what color it normally is, but the sight glass is kinda useless on R-134a systems. On older R-12 systems, you could tell when they were fully charged with the stream of bubbles was significantly reduced. The R-134a systems don't act the same way. I never even look at the sight glass so I'm not sure what is "normal". Klink would know.

Tinted windows today, did 5% on back windshield and doors plus 20% two front doors, doesn’t look to dark for me, will see how this improves heat rejection, btw on the way to tint shop maxed out AC and looks like it’s getting better. They told not to use ac for two days. is it ok to wash the car from outside now or better wait few days?

I think you'll like the tint. I put 5% rear / 20% front on cars my wife drives, she doesn't like the 5% all around that I prefer (harder to see at night, but I'm used to it).

Not sure I understand the question about washing the car? Main thing is don't roll down the windows for 2-3 days, longer if possible. I pull the fuses for the power windows for a few days in case I forget.

 

[Neoni]

I think you'll like the tint. I put 5% rear / 20% front on cars my wife drives, she doesn't like the 5% all around that I prefer (harder to see at night, but I'm used to it).

Not sure I understand the question about washing the car? Main thing is don't roll down the windows for 2-3 days, longer if possible. I pull the fuses for the power windows for a few days in case I forget.

I really like the tint, but all my friends screaming that I would a mognet for police to give me a ticket? Didn't think about it, but checking state law 35% only legal tint

 

[gsxr]

I really like the tint, but all my friends screaming that I would a mognet for police to give me a ticket? Didn't think about it, but checking state law 35% only legal tint

This totally depends on local law enforcement. Many states have similar laws with a 35% limit up front. NY was pretty hardcore about it when I lived there. CA wasn't bad, and ID doesn't care at all (thank goodness). Depending on the local laws, sometimes you just pay the fine and can leave the tint on. I was able to do this in CA (late 1990's), every few years I'd get a ticket, pay the fine, and consider it "tint tax". This was much cheaper and less hassle than getting it removed and re-installed each time. NY required removal to make the ticket go away.

Tip: If you see a patrol car, open the sunroof. The light coming in the roof makes the front seat occupants easily visible, and the tint looks MUCH lighter... you'll almost never get pulled over if you do this, even in a hardcore state. Of course, you have to open the sunroof before they spot you.

I wouldn't worry about it, if it was a serious problem in your area, the tint shop would have said something... they don't want to get in trouble either. One of the shops I used would not put the front windows on the invoice/receipt, and would not warranty the front tint, which I was ok with.

 

[Klink]

I have found that an optimum AC charge level seems to be when there are no bubbles in the sight glass with the aux fans off, and maybe just a few with the aux fans engaged. This works well for DIY people that don't have access to a precision refrigerant weighing or measurement device.

 

[Neoni]

Thank you all for replies
my blower is not turning on now completely, no matter how many times I’ve tried, different temp, restart, so I’ll be digging into replacing blower motor now, my guess it’s just too old and wear out so I have to replace it anyway, it was loud on sound for a while, searched through web and looks like replacement is the only way to fix it

 

[a777fan]

Its been mentioned before, and I think you have already checked it, but pull that blower motor strip fuse out again and ensure it isn’t cracked or failed in some way.


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[Neoni]

Its been mentioned before, and I think you have already checked it, but pull that blower motor strip fuse out again and ensure it isn’t cracked or failed in some way.


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I've checked it previously, it's fine, but I change it anyway with a new one, right now car is acting ok

Is there an access to tighten intake manifold bolts without removing everything from top?
I guess I have air leak somewhere from there, but don't want to take off everything

 

[gsxr]

If there is an air leak, do not attempt to tighten any bolts... you may just break bolts, or strip threads. To pinpoint an air leak, perform a smoke test. You'll find it pretty quick. On the intake, common areas would be the PCV rubber hoses on top, or the ETA/MAF rubber boot. Maybe the 8 rubber donuts between the intake sections, but those require pulling the intake off the motor to replace.

 

[Neoni]

If there is an air leak, do not attempt to tighten any bolts... you may just break bolts, or strip threads. To pinpoint an air leak, perform a smoke test. You'll find it pretty quick. On the intake, common areas would be the PCV rubber hoses on top, or the ETA/MAF rubber boot. Maybe the 8 rubber donuts between the intake sections, but those require pulling the intake off the motor to replace.

Well I've tried another w124 and seems like my brakes not good, you have to push it hard to stop, and its point me in not enough air/pressure acumulates in booster?
also i still chasing problem when car warms up starting to loose power, when its cold its rapidly fast
I'll try to do smoke test, check connections, but even now pretty sure none of those rubber hoses haven't been replaced ot even touched, so it's definitely leak somewhere
I saw that How-To for intake manifold, but there is too many parts to replace there and no part # on any of these.

So what actually respond for brake booster get enough to boost? Air leak will reduce his help in braking?
I've experienced hard brakes, heavy to stop since I've got this car, and previous one, 1995 E420 with 103k, that I own had much better brakes feel
I replaced all calipers around, brake pads and rotors, and it's just a little better. Bad brake booster?

 

[gsxr]

If braking requires more muscle than normal, this can either be due to weak power assist from the booster (likely from low vacuum at the intake), OR it could be an unusual pad compound, or something else funky with the brake pads / rotors. Checking engine vacuum is easy. Since you have a low-power problem as well, I'm suspicious the issues are related, so it's more likely to be poor vacuum than a brake pad with low friction.

What brand brake pads did you install? New pads take time to bed in and feel normal, and ceramics in particular can have an abnormally long bed-in period during which the brakes feel awful (like the car won't stop). If you are using OE pads/rotors and have driven enough (couple hundred miles of city driving) to bed them in, it's more likely you are having a vacuum issue. Brake booster failures are quite rare, but that's still a faint possibility too.

 

[Neoni]

For the front I've ordered EBC Stage 11 Light Sport Kit from UK, and it was like 2k miles ago, so I would say long enough to bed-in, for rear I have to use local stuff from Autozone, as when I wanted to change rear calipers brake pads just fall apart and that was the only place to have in stock at least anything that fits, since e420 have vented rear rotors.
So i suggest vacuum leak its my only problem for now, as I've mentioned before car shifts hard sometimes, which, again, means that all my problems due to vacuum leak
thanks for your reply, this forum is the only place that helps me keep him alive even though people telling me to junk it (it's not pretty at all, due to rust coming out and paint not that nice)

 

[Neoni]

Yesterday visited indy shop nearby, to check all issues, and it appears that loss of power connected to low fuel pressure under engine load, I've changed a fuel pressure regulator and by How-To from forum checked and it works fine, suspecting bad fuel pump
Also mechanic said that probably my master brake cylinder is bad if the car was sitting for too long, and since I've changed everything else. He said that it doesn't look like vacuum leak as it idles nice and smooth, only when load apply start misfiring?
What you think guys?

 

[gsxr]

I'd put a vacuum gauge on before doing anything else. It can idle pretty smooth with a vacuum leak. IIRC a plugged exhaust can also cause vacuum issues (?) along with power reduction...

 

[Neoni]

I’ll try to do that, thanks for reply
Not sure about plugged exaust as my has cats deleted

 

[Neoni]

I'd put a vacuum gauge on before doing anything else. It can idle pretty smooth with a vacuum leak. IIRC a plugged exhaust can also cause vacuum issues (?) along with power reduction...

I’m going to buy a cheap harbor vacuum gauge tomorrow to check for a normal vacuum on the engine, maybe it will show me something? By the way I have a set of double fuel pumps, used, but still works, as I’ve tested applying 12v for a few seconds. Wanna try to swap and see how it goes with pressure under load on other set of pumps, but still considering to buy a single fuel pump to replace. Those pumps are old and not sure if they perform properly after warming/some driving, maybe they all bad, maybe I’m going in wrong direction

P.S. Indy German cars mechanic says that after long sitting w124 has a problem with master cylinder, like common issue (at that same time had 300E with that problem)
Is it really common? Anyone experienced that?

 

[atg]

Yes the 87 climate control unit is different. The climate control unit in my 87 had been replaced with a later one and didn't work.

 

[gsxr]

1986-1987 climate control units are slightly different, in that they do not control the electric auxiliary cooling fan in the same way. 1988-up vehicles need a 1988-up pushbutton unit... I think most are interchangeable, but it wouldn't hurt to check the EPC.

Also, I thought a later PBU would work fine in a 1986-87 chassis.... would have sworn I've done this before, but it's been long enough that I can't say for sure.

 

[Neoni]

Bag news for me today, I guess my ETA ruined my E-GAS module
[video=youtube;FhlQ_1_Zjuo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhlQ_1_Zjuo[/video]
I went down to check my MAF, clean it, found a broken vacuum line to EZL from back of intake manifold.
Then decided to clean ETA, took it out, cleaned, put back in.
When I started the car ASR immediately light up, car not respond to pedal, until you press it 1\2 way, shakes:|
What's now? new ETA? new E-gas?

Also when I checked blinker codes there is two of them
6.Idle speed control inoperative
10.Voltage at hot wire mass air flow sensor too high\low

 

[gsxr]

The throttle linkage has to be adjusted JUST right, or you'll get this issue. Make sure that at idle, the linkage is resting against the stop on the ETA.

MAF error code - clear it and see if it comes back. They don't need cleaning, hopefully whatever you did wasn't the cause of the error code.

 

[Neoni]

The throttle linkage has to be adjusted JUST right, or you'll get this issue. Make sure that at idle, the linkage is resting against the stop on the ETA.

MAF error code - clear it and see if it comes back. They don't need cleaning, hopefully whatever you did wasn't the cause of the error code.

I will try that, but it seems like my throttle body doesn't open more than, like, 35-40%
even if you push full throttle it's not going any further
when i took it out and try linkage movement with hand it doesn't open fully too.

 

[gsxr]

I will try that, but it seems like my throttle body doesn't open more than, like, 35-40%
even if you push full throttle it's not going any further
when i took it out and try linkage movement with hand it doesn't open fully too.

This is 100% normal for an ASR ETA.

 

[Neoni]

This is 100% normal for an ASR ETA.

Oh, ok. I have a little hope to make him alive now, but why ETA not doing anything while engine running? It is completely closed, and linkage haven't been touched
Also I'm not sure if the ETA was replaced on car, how should I checked? cut insulation on wires? it looks like new, and since nothing breaks while I was doing this, even rubber under MAF was like new is there any hope it was replaced?

 

[gsxr]

Also I'm not sure if the ETA was replaced on car, how should I checked? cut insulation on wires? it looks like new, and since nothing breaks while I was doing this, even rubber under MAF was like new is there any hope it was replaced?

See attached.

 

[Neoni]

My ETA was build 03/94, defective wiring harness.
I hope it doesn't burn E-Gas module, but now I know i need rebuild\replacement

 

[gsxr]

If it's original, yeah, pretty likely due for a rewire / rebuilt.

Several people have had good results with Don Roden in Alabama. ~$279 on fleabay, you can either send yours in, or get an exchange unit. I don't think he has any website or contact info outside of eBay though.

Beckmann is the other reputable rebuilder but they want nearly $1k.

 

[a777fan]

+1 on Don Roden. My rebuild is running great.


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[Neoni]

Thanks you all guys
I figured I will try DIY, if everything runs ok, wait for How-To
I surf through web, knowledge of russian is really helpful, there is a lot of info how to do it.
I will post my results later, waiting for few parts right now

 

[Neoni]

Update video below:

As you can see it test's ok, little bit more of cleaning, and should be good to go!
if you guys need more info will gladly share all the proccess of rebuilding




[video=youtube;6aKbmitrXIQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aKbmitrXIQ[/video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aKbmitrXIQ

 

[gerryvz]

You need to connect power to it via the round connector and see if it energizes and the butterfly valve moves to the correct position.

 

[Neoni]

it's connected, and gas pedal depressed, as on how-to tutorial for testing ETA

 

[Neoni]

Little update here
Throttle body rewired, tested, drove it, all seems nice, no codes, no lights, all good
Still waiting for a package of PCV tubes, connectors from MBOEMparts, should be by tomorrow, and I hope it's all for now with repairs

0001418925 can you use this in w124 chassis? This one came from 1995 S420, low mileage and rebuild in 2008

 

[gsxr]

0001418925 can you use this in w124 chassis? This one came from 1995 S420, low mileage and rebuild in 2008

Yes, that part number will work on 94-95 W124's with M119 and ASR. The wire will be longer, but otherwise it's the same.

 

[Neoni]

Got a new problem today, check engine light, blinker code 19 and 26
I assume that 19 means either injectors bad or huge vacuum leak somewhere that cause car running to rich so it can't calibrate/adjust fuel-air ratio? Am I right here?
If so I'm going to clean and recalibrate engine control module memory
But anyway I was thinking about replacing all intake manifold gaskets along with set of remanufactured fuel injectors, found nice DIY on forum but might need a help in a complete list of parts needed: gaskets, o-rings, etc.
I would appreciate any input, going on a little road trip today, will see how it run

 

[Neoni]

Check engine light still on, car have no power, a little hesitation and my aux fans stays on almost all the time on high speed? Really weird to me, what should I check?

 

[gsxr]

DM code 19 is usually adaptation values at the limit, but you can't confirm without a digital scanner / SDS. This can be cause by something as simple as the FPR vacuum hose disconnected. Reset adaptation by "clearing" blink code #1 from pin 4 (LH module), assuming it only has one blink. If the CEL remains off for a while, it's likely adaptation related. If you had injector problems, the car would run rough.

DM code 26 means the cold upshift delay isn't working as expected, so if you have bypassed this by disconnecting/plugging the vacuum hoses (or unplugging the solenoid), that would cause it. Also, some aftermarket chips which disable this, may (very) intermittently still cause a code 26, but it should stay away after clearing if that is the only cause.

 

[Neoni]

DM code 19 is usually adaptation values at the limit, but you can't confirm without a digital scanner / SDS. This can be cause by something as simple as the FPR vacuum hose disconnected. Reset adaptation by "clearing" blink code #1 from pin 4 (LH module), assuming it only has one blink. If the CEL remains off for a while, it's likely adaptation related. If you had injector problems, the car would run rough.

DM code 26 means the cold upshift delay isn't working as expected, so if you have bypassed this by disconnecting/plugging the vacuum hoses (or unplugging the solenoid), that would cause it. Also, some aftermarket chips which disable this, may (very) intermittently still cause a code 26, but it should stay away after clearing if that is the only cause.

I guess injectors are bad, car is shaking when switch to Rear and hold brakes, also loss of power.
I should check cold upshift solenoid vacuum hose too, it's located on transmission under passenger side of car?

 

[gsxr]

Bad injectors are so rare you'd have a hard time finding a single thread about them on this forum, in 10+ years. While possible, I think it's as likely as winning the lottery. A bad injector would likely cause rough running at all times, under any load. Don't trust the DM code to condemn the injectors, you need to pull codes from the LH module (pin 4) which is what actually controls the injectors.

The cold upshift vacuum system can be tested from above using a Mity-Vac or other vacuum source, to confirm the hose / etc are holding vacuum.

 

[Neoni]

Bad injectors are so rare you'd have a hard time finding a single thread about them on this forum, in 10+ years. While possible, I think it's as likely as winning the lottery. A bad injector would likely cause rough running at all times, under any load. Don't trust the DM code to condemn the injectors, you need to pull codes from the LH module (pin 4) which is what actually controls the injectors.

The cold upshift vacuum system can be tested from above using a Mity-Vac or other vacuum source, to confirm the hose / etc are holding vacuum.

Car is shaking all the time, even at idle fully warm you can feel a small hesitation, and it's worse when you slowly backing up holding brakes.
i should get a reader for it, or it can be a bad LH module?
i don't have a reader to check it, so trying to determine before changing parts
i was checking a vacuum on the intake manifold and it was good, but it will not show if the vacuum lines are bad, right?

 

[gsxr]

If you don't have a hand-held blink code reader, it's well worth the ~$40 to buy one, or even less if you have time to build one. I'd recommend getting one with 4mm pins and using it with a breakout box, yes this will cost more, but it's far easier to use compared to trying to figure out unlabeled 1mm sockets down a dark hole. Read the 3 sticky threads at this link for details:
https://www.500eboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=23

Rough running / shaking is unlikely to be a defective LH module. Again, codes will help, but only after you clear everything and see what codes return. The first time you pull codes there will likely be years worth of junk codes sending you down bunny trails.

Checking vacuum at the intake with engine running won't help with testing individual vacuum lines. That's where a Mity-Vac is useful, the hand-pump action will quickly show if a particular line is leaking as you can't pump it fast enough to keep vacuum up. This is another tool that is well worth the $60 cost. Also used on the dash vacuum pod testing, EGR, etc... the 8500 kit also will create pressure, handy for testing other bits like the trans O/L switch, or boost-related items on turbo engines:
https://www.amazon.com/Mityvac-MITMV8500-Silverline-Automotive-Vacuum/dp/B0002SQYUA

 

[Neoni]

It’s sad to say but I sold my e420 to a guy in Germany who will, I hope, restore it, and will enjoy it as I enjoyed.
thanks everyone for replies, maybe some day I’ll find another one for myself, or maybe go diesel as my friend did

 

[Neoni]

Hey everyone, I'm back here
Picked up 1995 e420 last weekend from Ohio. Not perfect but made it home safe, so now I'll have to start fix it up so I can drive it in summer time
It's weird though my VIN datacard coming up as Sapphire Black, but car is actually midnight blue, dark blue
if anyone can check on this?
VIN: WDBEA34E6SC262082

There is also couple issues like check engine light, code 17?
gonna need harness: lower upper, throttle body, all of them actually, if somebody have for sale ill grab them
power steering reservoir have a leak, looks like its a small rubber hose for return???
and one tricky issue is when it's cold it runs fine full power, when fully warms up it looses power, probably running rich. I've already replaced oxygen sensor since it was still original.
Transmission shifts harsh, every gear, I replaced fluid, filter and gasket yesterday but no change
I would appreciate any input.