Non Resistor Spark Plug List

[yao500e]

@anderzen give Denso Iridium a try on yiur C36 and C43. Im hearing good things.

 

[rayhennig]

give Denso Iridium a try on yiur C36 and C43. Im hearing good things.

Is there any reason to believe that these may perform as well or better than MB's offerings?

R

 

[gerryvz]

Coil-on-plug in and of itself is and should not be a determining factor as to whether a fancy iridium/yttrium/whatever plug should be used in that application.

Please re-read the above paragraph.

Confirming no M119 of the KE-Jet (119.96x) or LH-Jet (119.97x) generations ever came with coil-on-plug technology.

C-O-P was not introduced on the 119 until its final ME-based (119.98x) generation in the 1996-1999 time frame.

Even with an M119.98x, I would be VERY cautious about using those plugs. Why do it? What’s the benefit? Why not just use the plugs that were spec’d for the application by MB?

ALSO: Not all M104s were coil-on-plug, either. Like the M119, there were early (KE-Jet), middle (LH-Jet) and later (ME/HFM/Motronic) variants of the M104. Only the HFM versions of the M104 were coil-on-plug, from the 1993-1996 US model year time frame.

I firmly believe that iridium plugs should NOT be used on ANY M104 variant, including the later HFM coil-on-plug 104.99x variants.

 

[rayhennig]

I firmly believe that iridium plugs should NOT be used on ANY M104 variant, including the later HFM coil-on-plug 104.99x variants.

Interesting. You are far better educated on this than I who simply asks these questions, "Are we able to spec better plugs than MB did and/or has the plug market introduced better plugs? Assuming the market has introduced better plugs, is it not likely that these would be branded and sold by MB?"

Just me rambling.

R

 

[gerryvz]

Note that MB specs the same plugs for the HFM M104 as they do for the LH M119. Non-resistor, basic copper.

I’ve run plain copper Bosch plugs for 50K and more miles with no issues. None.

Not sure what performance or longevity benefits that a fancy plug is going to get anyone above and beyond a copper plug.

Going from say 30K or 50K miles to 75K miles? If possible, not sure this is a big benefit based on cheapness of copper plugs.

Increased horsepower or torque? In 22 years I’ve never seen any proof that any fancy plug is better than copper, on a dump, but I am 100% open to my mind being changed / blown if measurable verified performance gains have been achieved with iridium/yttrium/etc on an M119 or M104.

Improved mileage/efficiency? Same as last paragraph, never seen any improvements over copper non-resistor in an M119 or M104, but totally open to changing my mind if major gains in MPG / l-100km are achieved with fancy plugs.

So, in the absence of any documented improvements or benefits from fancy plugs in the past 21+ years I’ve owned my E500, I repeat again …. What’s the point of using them in an M119 or M104?

 

[gerryvz]

Interesting. You are far better educated on this than I who simply asks these questions, "Are we able to spec better plugs than MB did and/or has the plug market introduced better plugs? Assuming the market has introduced better plugs, is it not likely that these would be branded and sold by MB?"

Just me rambling.

R

My question would be …. What constitutes a “better plug” … at least for the M104 or M119 application?

• Lower cost?
• More HP/torque generation?
• Better engine efficiency / gas burn?
• Longer life of plugs / less frequent maintenance?
• Better engine reliability?
• Fewer deposits on valves/pistons from combustion?

Beyond those things, I can’t think of any additional benefits that plugs would have.

 

[yao500e]

Note that MB specs the same plugs for the HFM M104 as they do for the LH M119. Non-resistor, basic copper.

I’ve run plain copper Bosch plugs for 50K and more miles with no issues. None.

Not sure what performance or longevity benefits that a fancy plug is going to get anyone above and beyond a copper plug.

Going from say 30K or 50K miles to 75K miles? If possible, not sure this is a big benefit based on cheapness of copper plugs.

Increased horsepower or torque? In 22 years I’ve never seen any proof that any fancy plug is better than copper, on a dump, but I am 100% open to my mind being changed / blown if measurable verified performance gains have been achieved with iridium/yttrium/etc on an M119 or M104.

Improved mileage/efficiency? Same as last paragraph, never seen any improvements over copper non-resistor in an M119 or M104, but totally open to changing my mind if major gains in MPG / l-100km are achieved with fancy plugs.

So, in the absence of any documented improvements or benefits from fancy plugs in the past 21+ years I’ve owned my E500, I repeat again …. What’s the point of using them in an M119 or M104?

can not dispute what you laid out. copper is definitely safer route

 

[500AMM]

Spark plugs containing sophisticated materials like Iridium and Platinum are mainly chosen for better durability & functionality under extreme operating conditions. On regular driving the improvement in MPG and lifespan on these spark plugs is hardly measureable. It is way more dominating factors influencing the MPG like the tires air pressure & rolling resistance, clean air filters etc... Anyone replacing air filters every time they go for a drive?? Of course not.

Here's some good info on the topic on Champions homepage: Guide to Spark Plug Materials

 

[gsxr]

Here's some good info on the topic on Champions homepage: Guide to Spark Plug Materials

Good stuff there. Fancy electrodes just last longer.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of the copper spark plug?​

The copper spark plug is the most common and cheapest plug available. While almost all spark plugs feature a copper core, many people refer to the common spark plug as a “copper” spark plug. A standard spark plug typically features a nickel-alloy outer material fused to the copper-core electrodes.​

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Copper spark plugs run cooler and provide more power in performance driving situations. They are often installed as original equipment in turbocharged engines and engines with higher compression ratios. Copper spark plugs are also often used in older (pre-1980s) vehicles with a distributor-based ignition system.​

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The nickel-alloy outer material used in the copper spark plug isn’t as hard as other metals so it wears down more quickly with the high pressure and heat created in the cylinder of the engine. Over time, this wear leads to the spark plugs fouling and not working as efficiently as they did when they were new. Due to this short lifespan, most copper spark plugs need to be changed every 20,000 miles.​

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What is the scoop on platinum spark plugs?​

Platinum is much harder metal than nickel alloy and has a higher melting point. Since platinum is harder, it holds its sharp edge much longer than a conventional spark plug, up to 100,000 miles. Longevity is a key advantage of platinum spark plugs.​

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Another advantage of platinum spark plugs is that they run a little hotter, which burns deposits off the spark plug better and helps prevent fouling. Platinum also handles high heat, enabling the spark plug to wear better.​

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Platinum spark plugs come in two varieties - single and double platinum. A single platinum plug is much like a copper spark plug with a platinum disc welded to the center electrode; a double platinum spark plug has a platinum disc on both the center and side electrodes.​

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What about iridium spark plugs?​

Iridium is said to be six times harder and eight times stronger than platinum with a 700° higher melting point. Iridium spark plugs have extremely fine electrodes while retaining excellent wear characteristics. Thanks to its strength, iridium spark plugs can last up to 25% longer than comparable platinum spark plugs.​

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Iridium spark plugs feature a fine wire center electrode that is designed to conduct electrical energy better and increase firing efficiency.​

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There is a price for this precious metal. Iridium spark plugs are typically the most expensive, ranging from $8 to $15 each.​

 

[gerryvz]

So if a set of "copper" plugs is good for say, 30K or 40K miles, and using a set of platinum plugs extends that life by 25% (so say, 8-10K miles additional life), is the cost differential between the copper plugs and the platinum plugs really tangible?

I'll gladly continue using copper, non-resistor plugs, at least on my M117, M119 and M104 engines......

 

[500AMM]

So if a set of "copper" plugs is good for say, 30K or 40K miles, and using a set of platinum plugs extends that life by 25% (so say, 8-10K miles additional life), is the cost differential between the copper plugs and the platinum plugs really tangible?

I'll gladly continue using copper, non-resistor plugs, at least on my M117, M119 and M104 engines......

+1 and put in a longer perspective:
30 kmi on Copper/Nickel plugs, Cu/Ni
37,5 kmi on Iridium/Platinum plugs Ir/Pt (+25% mileage)

Cu/Ni plugs: after 150 kmi driving you put on the 5th set
Ir/Pt plugs: after 150 kmi driving the 4th set goes on

That means 1 set of Cu/Ni plugs more is used after 150 kmiles driving. But the total cost for 5 set of Cu/Ni plugs vs 4 set of premium 2-layer Ir/Pt plugs is less anyway. On an average for most of the owners is 150 kmiles minimum 25 years of driving, so the ROI is really low on this, regardless of which way it's seen.

 

[gsxr]

That means 1 set of Cu/Ni plugs more is used after 150 kmiles driving. But the total cost for 5 set of Cu/Ni plugs vs 4 set of premium 2-layer Ir/Pt plugs is less anyway. On an average for most of the owners is 150 kmiles minimum 25 years of driving, so the ROI is really low on this, regardless of which way it's seen.

Yep - these fancy plugs were designed for mfr's who needed to extend the replacement interval for warranty / service purposes. Makes the engine seem less expensive to maintain.

Example from our Land Rover LR4, the FSM (screenshot below) shows standard replacement interval is 105kmi, or severe service 45kmi, with NGK ILKAR6C-10 "laser iridium" plugs.

I'm AOK with the 30kmi / 48kkm replacement interval for old-skool copper plugs on our distributor-ignited M119's. Twenty bucks in plugs and about an hour of labor is just not that big of a deal on our cars.

 

[Jlaa]

Yep - these fancy plugs were designed for mfr's who needed to extend the replacement interval for warranty / service purposes. Makes the engine seem less expensive to maintain.

Example from our Land Rover LR4, the FSM (screenshot below) shows standard replacement interval is 105kmi, or severe service 45kmi, with NGK ILKAR6C-10 "laser iridium" plugs.

I'm AOK with the 30kmi / 48kkm replacement interval for old-skool copper plugs on our distributor-ignited M119's. Twenty bucks in plugs and about an hour of labor is just not that big of a deal on our cars.



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For what it is worth, I can see using platinum/irdium spark plugs to extend the service interval on transversely mounted V type engines where access to the rear spark plugs could be a RPITA.....

 

[anderzen]

I am always pro "copper" aka nickel-alloy plugs where applicable, I've used them on everything Benz I own, M104/119/111/113/113K etc with zero issue. Cheap, perform well and easy to find locally or online. My M113K currently has Laser-iridium's installed that were fresh when I got it so I left them in but otherwise everything gets NGK standards.

 

[yao500e]

I am always pro "copper" aka nickel-alloy plugs where applicable, I've used them on everything Benz I own, M104/119/111/113/113K etc with zero issue. Cheap, perform well and easy to find locally or online. My M113K currently has Laser-iridium's installed that were fresh when I got it so I left them in but otherwise everything gets NGK standards.

great to hear from @anderzen

copper it is!